Federer fans, be honest... (part 2)

Did Federer underperform in the slam race?

  • No, he already performed well beyond expectations considering the age gap

    Votes: 12 19.7%

  • Not really. His results were on par with what I expected

    Votes: 13 21.3%

  • Yes, he underperformed against his rivals even if he was older.

    Votes: 22 36.1%

  • I am not a Federer fan

    Votes: 14 23.0%
  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
ADuck

ADuck

Legend
This is a part 2 I did of the thread after the French open this year: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/federer-fans-be-honest.645586/

The poll and question remains the same as before, but the circumstances have been updated slightly due to the events of the past 4 months.

This thread is not to throw dirt in the face of Fed fans but to genuinely hear their opinion on the matter.

Poll is for Federer fans only

So, is the fact that the slam race is as close as it is now, down to his performance or his age?
 
Yes, by his standards and as a pure tennis PLAYER he underperformed. He is even greater in that regard as his results show, but the mental component is part of the game.

Also he should have beaten Nadal in one of those 2006/07 RG finals to take the CYGS (or beating Kuerten in 2004 to win it there).

But it is what it is and him winning Slams isn’t the reason why I’m a fan. Still, it would be a pity seeing him being overtaken because I think he deserves the record.
 
ChrisRF said:
Yes, by his standards and as a pure tennis PLAYER he underperformed. He is even greater in that regard as his results show, but the mental component is part of the game.

Also he should have beaten Nadal in one of those 2006/07 RG finals to take the CYGS (or beating Kuerten in 2004 to win it there).

But it is what it is and him winning Slams isn’t the reason why I’m a fan. Still, it would be a pity seeing him being overtaken because I think he deserves the record.
Click to expand...

OK6W_koKDTOqqqLDbIoPAm86w_XDnr6ojhkzsMSScNc
 
Yes he underperformed.. age did play a big part in fedal & fedovic matchups, but still there are so many losses which were the case when roger defeated himself (particularly against djok).
He let 9 slams slip under his belt by choking on some of the most important tennis points in the history of sports..
Here are all of them, it's upon you to judge

AO 2005 (bullsh*t swiss)
Wim 2008
AO 2009
UO 2009
FO 2006/2011
UO 2011 (bullsh*t swiss)
Wim 2014
UO 2015
Wim 2019 (bullsh*t swiss)
 
Last edited:
ChrisRF said:
Yes, by his standards and as a pure tennis PLAYER he underperformed. He is even greater in that regard as his results show, but the mental component is part of the game.

Also he should have beaten Nadal in one of those 2006/07 RG finals to take the CYGS (or beating Kuerten in 2004 to win it there).

But it is what it is and him winning Slams isn’t the reason why I’m a fan. Still, it would be a pity seeing him being overtaken because I think he deserves the record.
Click to expand...

Well, Nadal should have won at Wimbledon 2007, which by the way, that, yes, was a 5-set match.
Instead...
 
Last edited:
MichaelNadal said:
OK6W_koKDTOqqqLDbIoPAm86w_XDnr6ojhkzsMSScNc
Click to expand...
Don’t get me wrong, Nadal deserved those wins. But Federer had his chances in both matches and wasted too many chances. One of those could have gone his way.

My point was rather that as great as Federer is he SHOULD have maintained his level for longer there. He should, but Rafa did, so he deserved it.
 
ChrisRF said:
Don’t get me wrong, Nadal deserved those wins. But Federer had his chances in both matches and wasted too many chances. One of those could have gone his way.

My point was rather that as great as Federer is he SHOULD have maintained his level for longer there. He should, but Rafa did, so he deserved it.
Click to expand...
He realized that rafa exploits his BH, so he upped BH level in 2007, but foolishly removed the death sting from his FH by adding more spin to nadalize his strokes...
 
It depends on what perspective you take. You can say there were matches he should have won.

But if you look at his history up until 2003 he looked very much destined to be one of those talented underachievers with which sport is littered - he probably spent two or three years just getting his mind into the right space. So to go from that to 20 Slams plus everything else is pretty phenomenal.

Ultimately we know too little about his inner mind to say whether he "should" have won more or not. Perhaps those up and down emotions cost him a few matches but also have given him the joy in playing that's let him go on so long and survive the losses without being crushed?

Didn't see your thread on the French but if it was asking whether he should have achieved more - personally I'm fine with it because Nadal has just proved to be an amazing phenomenon on that surface. Might have felt differently if someone else like Djoko had been able to get dominance over Rafa at RG but no-one has. Borg was equally dominant at RG but of course over a much shorter time period. It's amazing to do it over such a long time. I get that winning in 2004 would have given him a CYGS but I think 2009 was a better win. To do it under such pressure (and having had a fairly traumatic season up till then) was a good achievement mentally. I remember when Nadal went out the press was talking up the opportunity being more for Murray and Djoko than for Fed - well, they couldn't make the most of it but Fed did.
 
Fedforever said:
It depends on what perspective you take. You can say there were matches he should have won.

But if you look at his history up until 2003 he looked very much destined to be one of those talented underachievers with which sport is littered - he probably spent two or three years just getting his mind into the right space. So to go from that to 20 Slams plus everything else is pretty phenomenal.

Ultimately we know too little about his inner mind to say whether he "should" have won more or not. Perhaps those up and down emotions cost him a few matches but also have given him the joy in playing that's let him go on so long and survive the losses without being crushed?

Didn't see your thread on the French but if it was asking whether he should have achieved more - personally I'm fine with it because Nadal has just proved to be an amazing phenomenon on that surface. Might have felt differently if someone else like Djoko had been able to get dominance over Rafa at RG but no-one has. Borg was equally dominant at RG but of course over a much shorter time period. It's amazing to do it over such a long time. I get that winning in 2004 would have given him a CYGS but I think 2009 was a better win. To do it under such pressure (and having had a fairly traumatic season up till then) was a good achievement mentally. I remember when Nadal went out the press was talking up the opportunity being more for Murray and Djoko than for Fed - well, they couldn't make the most of it but Fed did.
Click to expand...
You write very well. The forum needs a lot more insightful posters like you regardless of the fan base they belong to. (y)
 
DSH said:
Exactly, it was a 5-set match unlike those matches in RG 2006/2007.
My point was that Nadal was much closer, at that time, to defeating Federer at Wimbledon than Federer to defeat Nadal at the French Open.
Even the Swiss confessed that he was lucky to win that Wimbledon 2007.
Click to expand...
It's not a top secret that fedal difference on clay is wider than fedal difference on grass
 
He should have won 4-5 extra slams based on crowd support alone .
Crowds at Wimbledon and US Open bullies his opponents in semis and Finals ,and Fed didn't capitalise on that , in my opinion .
 
maratha_warrior said:
Yeah , and Nadal Fed never met at USO too..
Click to expand...
Don't think they'll ever bully nadal in a fedal uso meeting..
Fedal are loved, respected and adored a lot throughout the globe, it's djok who's not so much loved or adored compared to other 2..
So instead of generalizing, you could have simply said that crowds bully djok in fedovic meeting. :)
 
HetTheGreaterer said:
It's not a top secret that fedal difference on clay is wider than fedal difference on grass
Click to expand...

What I always try to say is that it could have been that different, it is full of nostalgic moments and that the past is a foreign country: they do different things there, as L.P. Hartley wrote a long time ago in his classic novel, "The Go-Between."
 
HetTheGreaterer said:
Don't think they'll ever bully nadal in a fedal uso meeting..
Fedal are loved, respected and adored a lot throughout the globe, it's djok who's not so much loved or adored compared to other 2..
So instead of generalizing, you could have simply said that crowds bully djok in fedovic meeting. :)
Click to expand...

Delpo , Cilic , Hewitt , Rodick , Philophsis , Andy Murray , Baghdatis too never had crowd support in most of slam finals against Federer .
Only Djokovic ( and Delpo once ) is the one who managed to win despite of Crowd supporting Fed in slam finals . ;)
 
ChrisRF said:
Yes, by his standards and as a pure tennis PLAYER he underperformed. He is even greater in that regard as his results show, but the mental component is part of the game.

Also he should have beaten Nadal in one of those 2006/07 RG finals to take the CYGS (or beating Kuerten in 2004 to win it there).

But it is what it is and him winning Slams isn’t the reason why I’m a fan. Still, it would be a pity seeing him being overtaken because I think he deserves the record.
Click to expand...
Too bad his clay game was weak in BO5 in 2004.Other than that, I think 2011 RG F was a more wasted opportunity than the one in 2007.Rafa wasn't scary at all in 2011, unlike in 2007.
 
HetTheGreaterer said:
Yes he underperformed.. age did play a big part in fedal & fedovic matchups, but still there are so many losses which were the case when roger defeated himself (particularly against djok).
He let 9 slams slip under his belt by choking on some of the most important tennis points in the history of sports..
Here are all of them, it's upon you to judge

AO 2005 (bullsh*t swiss)
Wim 2008
AO 2009
UO 2009
FO 2006/2011
UO 2011 (bullsh*t swiss)
Wim 2014
UO 2015
Wim 2019 (bullsh*t swiss)
Click to expand...

AO 2005-> Safin too good
Wimbledon 2008 -> at one of the lowest points mentally in the rivalry with Nadal.Considering that, it's amazing that he barely lost that match.
AO 2009 ->Probably Nadal's best match ever on HC slams, although Fed had no excuse for playing like that in the 5th
UO 2009-> Underestimated Delpo and payed the price.He probably though that he is invincible at the tournament at that point
FO 2006-> Backhand exposed, poor mental approach.FO 2011-> Terrible, that was his biggest chance
USO 2011 -> The "artistry" of a choker
Wimbledon 2014 -> a comeback for nothing
UO 2015 -> Unclutchnesserer and poor net rushing strategy
Wimbledon 2019 -> Will haunt him forever
 
mike danny said:
Despite the age differences, Fed should have done better against Novak and Rafa.

His Wimb record against Djokovic will remain his biggest stain. Not his record vs Rafa.
Click to expand...

Well, it's obvious, isn't it ?; his incredible longevity has allowed him to have more opportunities to win great titles but at the same time this has not prevented the normal channel of life from getting in his way and that brings much pain and frustration to his fans.
 
ForehandRF said:
AO 2005-> Safin too good
Wimbledon 2008 -> at one of the lowest points mentally in the rivalry with Nadal.Considering that, it's amazing that he barely lost that match.
AO 2009 ->Probably Nadal's best match ever on HC slams, although Fed had no excuse for playing like that in the 5th
UO 2009-> Underestimated Delpo and payed the price.He probably though that he is invincible at the tournament at that point
FO 2006-> Backhand exposed, poor mental approach.FO 2011-> Terrible, that was his biggest chance
USO 2011 -> The "artistry" of a choker
Wimbledon 2014 -> a comeback for nothing
UO 2015 -> Unclutchnesserer and poor net rushing strategy
Wimbledon 2019 -> Will haunt him forever
Click to expand...
Wimb 2019 pretty much sealed the deal on his rivalry with Djokovic.
 
DSH said:
Well, it's obvious, isn't it ?; his incredible longevity has allowed him to have more opportunities to win great titles but at the same time this has not prevented the normal channel of life from getting in his way and that brings much pain and frustration to his fans.
Click to expand...
And yet this has not happened and will not happen to Novak and Rafa. So you can understand how Fed fans feel.
 
mike danny said:
And yet this has not happened and will not happen to Novak and Rafa. So you can understand how Fed fans feel.
Click to expand...

No, I've always thought that you have to give it your maximum until your body says enough.
Federer has already reached his limit.
That will happen to Nadal and a little later Djokovic, eventually.
Sooner rather than later, even if you don't believe it.
The important thing for high level athletes is knowing how to recognize when to stop to avoid future consequences that could cause even more pain to their already wasted body.
 
What means to underperform?! Based on what? He is the most dominant that the game has ever seen ... who has performed better than him? Why look just at those he lost in close fashion and why not those he won in close fashion:

AO 17 - Three 5 set matches and they were all 50-50 even less with Nadal
Wimbledon 12 - he defeated Benneteau from match points down
Wimbledon 09 - He didn't broke Roddcik serve till the last game of the match
RG 09 - He was a break point away of losing against Haas and went to 5 with Del Potro
Wimbledon 07 - Nadal had this
Wimbledon 04 - Roddick was the better player till the rain at 1-1 and up a break in the third
 
ForehandRF said:
Yeah, by sticking so long to the game he "ruined" his rivalry with Djokovic, but at the same time he made the one with Nadal look much better.He couldn't have it both ways it seems.
Click to expand...
Am I wrong in thinking Wimb 2019 was a bigger loss than AO 2017 was as a win?
 
The matches Federer should have won and where he really let it slip IMO are:

UO 2009
FO 2011
Wimbledon 2019 (by far)
 
RF-18 said:
The guy is still beating Nadal in majors and nearly won Wimby months ago.
Click to expand...

Yes and this thread is about Fed's chokes. Djokovic did nothing special to save those MPs this year unlike in 2010 USO where he really hit hard monster FHs or in 2011 where he had a monster FH return.
 
mike danny said:
Am I wrong in thinking Wimb 2019 was a bigger loss than AO 2017 was as a win?
Click to expand...
I don't think so.

His win against Rafa (and the subsequent wins) allowed him to reset his own narrative - he'll always believe now that his earlier losses to Rafa off clay were down to letting clay losses get in his head. Doesn't matter whether it's "true" or not - everyone tells themselves stories to get through life.

His narrative about Djoko I suspect is that it's the normal process of one fantastic player taking over from another. If you look at their head to head it fits the narrative perfectly - Fed dominant early on, then they're about even, then Djoko takes over. In the normal way of things Fed would just have retired at this point. A victory in W19 would have been wonderful obviously, but wouldn't really have changed the story. He sacrificed the H to H to get more slams and a good job too!!
 
HetTheGreaterer said:
Yes he underperformed.. age did play a big part in fedal & fedovic matchups, but still there are so many losses which were the case when roger defeated himself (particularly against djok).
He let 9 slams slip under his belt by choking on some of the most important tennis points in the history of sports..
Here are all of them, it's upon you to judge

AO 2005 (bullsh*t swiss)
Wim 2008
AO 2009
UO 2009
FO 2006/2011
UO 2011 (bullsh*t swiss)
Wim 2014
UO 2015
Wim 2019 (bullsh*t swiss)
Click to expand...
Hehehe Uso 2015 ???? He lost it in 4 and btw one can also say that he won a few which he should have lost like
Aus 18(Cilics tragedy with closed roof)
Wim 07( Nadals inability to convert the break points)
 
Of course he underperformed. Had the talent to regularly overcome the physical gap but kept failing on pressure points just as regularly. With Roger's tennis ability, he should've won 25 slams by now :<
 
Fedforever said:
I don't think so.

His win against Rafa (and the subsequent wins) allowed him to reset his own narrative - he'll always believe now that his earlier losses to Rafa off clay were down to letting clay losses get in his head. Doesn't matter whether it's "true" or not - everyone tells themselves stories to get through life.

His narrative about Djoko I suspect is that it's the normal process of one fantastic player taking over from another. If you look at their head to head it fits the narrative perfectly - Fed dominant early on, then they're about even, then Djoko takes over. In the normal way of things Fed would just have retired at this point. A victory in W19 would have been wonderful obviously, but wouldn't really have changed the story. He sacrificed the H to H to get more slams and a good job too!!
Click to expand...
It would have changed the story a lot. Wimb 2019 would have forever shut critics up.

Instead, it reinforced the idea that Fed is a chokemeister.
 
aditya123 said:
Hehehe Uso 2015 ???? He lost it in 4 and btw one can also say that he won a few which he should have lost like
Aus 18(Cilics tragedy with closed roof)
Wim 07( Nadals inability to convert the break points)
Click to expand...
AO 2018 wasn't a match that he should have lost. Quite the opposite.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Of course he underperformed. Had the talent to regularly overcome the physical gap but kept failing on pressure points just as regularly. With Roger's tennis ability, he should've won 25 slams by now :<
Click to expand...
Maybe not 25, but 23 definitely.

USO 2009, Wimb 2019, AO 2005 should have been definite wins.
 
Fed is one of the most frustrating players to root for. When the victory comes easy, he looks incredible and you wonder why is it so hard to root for him. But when the matches become tough, he loses 80% of them.

His mentality is just not that great. He doesn't have it in him to come back against absolutely great players.

When they win the first set, the matches are pretty much over for Fed.
 
Eren said:
The matches Federer should have won and where he really let it slip IMO are:

UO 2009
FO 2011
Wimbledon 2019 (by far)
Click to expand...

Nah, a set down is nothing for Nadal at RG.
Let's not forget that Djokovic could have taken that match to the fifth set in the semifinals between him and Federer.
 
mike danny said:
Fed is one of the most frustrating players to root for. When the victory comes easy, he looks incredible and you wonder why is it so hard to root for him. But when the matches become tough, he loses 80% of them.

His mentality is just not that great. He doesn't have it in him to come back against absolutely great players.

When they win the first set, the matches are pretty much over for Fed.
Click to expand...

This is why people love Sports!
Fans cheers for underdogs.
:)
 
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