Federer fans turning on Novak

[Djokovic2011]

Novak will have to win Agassi's entire career worth of majors starting from now, at age 28, to overtake Federer in majors won.

Likelihood of that happening? Sweet **** all.

I don't think many even partisan Federer fans with a clue are too worried just yet.

What makes you think it's all about the slams? I get the impression from some of the recent posts I've read that there are quite a few Fed fans pretty worried about Djokovic at least equalling his WTF record, YE#1 finishes etc which seem to be much more realistic targets. We saw yesterday how angry some of them are that Novak's now won more HC Masters - I truly dread to think how vitriolic they'd be if he did get closer to Fed's more important records in the next year or so!!

 

[BHud]

During Novaks rise in 2011, federer fans took a liking to Novak. He was the one to stop Nadal's attack on federers title as greatest ever. Now, we see a different view from federer fans everywhere. They never expected this to happen. They are scared now that Novak will be the one to challenge Federer's claim. And this time there is nobody who is looking capable to to stopping Novak like Novak was to Nadal.

Site your sources? Nice generalization.

 

[PeterHo]

I was serious about bed, so I will reply to this tomorrow.

But looking over it, it's another easy put away I'm afraid.
The issue is, these common arguments are weak, but they thrive as a result of requiring time and effort to rebut (time and effort I happened to be willing to put in this evening but that most won't).

I'll give you a taster of my reply though:
-Nadal thrived off the back of a weak clay era then, you cannot have your cake and eat it too
-"Luck" and other excuses? Oh dear.
-If ranking is irrelevant, what is? Achievements? If so, go back to my very first post.

"Weak Era" has more logical holes than the colander I drained my pasta with tonight.

Night.

1. no, nadal had federer on clay. federer was an "outlier" on clay since 2005. The strong and weak eras is all about the no. of "outliers" we have. An outlier is somebody who is clearly better than the rest of the competition, and thus can dominate a weak era and also compete well against fellow outliers. if an era has two ore more outliers, that era cannot be called weak. if an era has 0 or 1 outlier, its weak.

2. Luck is the best explanation. Nobody else in federer's generation was a tennis great. Neither was anybody in the previous generation (think players 5 years older than fed). you have to go way back to sampras/agassi (10 years his senior). The biggest reason why Federer has failed to win slams in the past few years is due to his BAD LUCK, ie. he had to face strong competition. you can see he's still an "outlier" in 2015.

3. ranking is irrelevant if we are comparing across eras. As i've said, Murray is a better player than roddick, no matter how you see it, game wise, talent wise, consistency, slam finals reached, h2h against federer, career match win%, etc. Enough said of the "world no.2".

From a statistical, mathematical point of view, weak and strong eras exist. And we are entering one sooner or later.

 

[Nachiket Nolefam]

You need to lighten up

@Novak And The Net.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

Federer fans will always have it easier. They had Djokovic to halt Nadal's juggernaut and now a peak Djokovic who's already too old to challenge his records.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Insecure Faker fanatical little kids throughout this board. Having to come up with all these stupid threads.

The question is who´s insecure? Sometimes I´d just like to see all These idiots say the same things in real life. Would we witness the same bigmouthed idiots? No, they would hole up in their nuerseries.

 

[cknobman]

Change thread title to
"Federer fans turning on Novak fans"

Why?

Well because most of them are idiots.

 

[duaneeo]

They are scared now that Novak will be the one to challenge Federer's claim.

Out of curiosity, which Federer "claim" are his fans supposedly "scared" of Djokovic challenging?

 

[Levi_Ackerman]

I've got a filthy mind, but I read the title as meaning Novak is turned on by Fed fans.

 

[coloskier]

As a Fed fan I've never liked Djoker, even when Fed was beating him like a bad stepchild on a regular basis when he was younger. He snide, over the top personality, his sneer, has always left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Steve0904]

The "Admit It...." thread was just deleted, I see. This one should probably follow suit.

 

[Tennis wizard]

I'm a fed fan and i like novak .. on behalf of all tennis fans **** you

 

[duaneeo]

What makes you think it's all about the slams? I get the impression from some of the recent posts I've read that there are quite a few Fed fans pretty worried about Djokovic at least equalling his WTF record, YE#1 finishes etc which seem to be much more realistic targets.

I get the impression that some Djokovic fans are now trying to suggest that Masters, WTFs and YE#1s are as important as the slams because they no longer think that winning or surpassing 17 slam titles is a realistic target for Djokovic. Regarding Masters, many tennis fans have been saying for years that Djokovic will win more titles than everyone else, and eventually be the only player to win all 9 Masters tournaments. When it comes to the YE#1s, why would Federer fans be worried about Djokovic?? Sampras holds the record of most YE#1s...not Federer. Who cares if Nole joins Federer and Connors for the second most YE#1s. Even if Nole were to get to 6 YE#1s, Roger would still be where he was beforehand---tied for the second most YE#1s.

And, we all know that when it comes to the GOAT, it is mostly about the slams. Other records, though important, mostly come into discussion when 2 players have similar slam wins. 17 and 10 are not similar slam wins.

 

[Djokovic2011]

I get the impression that some Djokovic fans are now trying to suggest that Masters, WTFs and YE#1s are as important as the slams because they no longer think that winning or surpassing 17 slam titles is a realistic target for Djokovic. Regarding Masters, many tennis fans have been saying for years that Djokovic will win more titles than everyone else, and eventually be the only player to win all 9 Masters tournaments. When it comes to the YE#1s, why would Federer fans be worried about Djokovic?? Sampras holds the record of most YE#1s...not Federer. Who cares if Nole joins Federer and Connors for the second most YE#1s. Even if Nole were to get to 6 YE#1s, Roger would still be where he was beforehand---tied for the second most YE#1s.

And, we all know that when it comes to the GOAT, it is mostly about the slams. Other records, though important, mostly come into discussion when 2 players have similar slam wins. 17 and 10 are not similar slam wins.

If all this is true, then why do so many Fed fans hate Djokovic if they're not threatened by him? Why do they say so many nasty things about him with such passion? If they truly don't feel that he's a threat to Roger's biggest records, why do they act this way? That's the part I don't get.

 

[ABCD]

If all this is true, then why do so many Fed fans hate Djokovic if they're not threatened by him? Why do they say so many nasty things about him with such passion? If they truly don't feel that he's a threat to Roger's biggest records, why do they act this way? That's the part I don't get.

It is not all in numbers. Djokovic is better player than Federer and this is where jalousie comes from. Better numbers will just make it undisputable.

 

[Slice'n'dice]

If all this is true, then why do so many Fed fans hate Djokovic if they're not threatened by him? Why do they say so many nasty things about him with such passion? If they truly don't feel that he's a threat to Roger's biggest records, why do they act this way? That's the part I don't get.

Maybe they find his sense of humour annoying. Or maybe don't like some of his fans on here (certain four capital letter user names spring to mind), so they want to annoy those people.

 

[duaneeo]

If all this is true, then why do so many Fed fans hate Djokovic if they're not threatened by him? Why do they say so many nasty things about him with such passion? If they truly don't feel that he's a threat to Roger's biggest records, why do they act this way? That's the part I don't get.

Don't pretend that there aren't Djokovic fans who are just as bad as those particular Federer fans you are referring to. "Djokovic is the GOAT"..."Djokovic faced stronger competition than Federer"..."Federer won so many titles because of a weak era"..."Federer has never been as good as Djokovic"... What type of reaction do you think such comments will bring?

 

[Bobby Jr]

What makes you think it's all about the slams?

Because, basically, it is all about slams. Everything else is secondary.

I get the impression from some of the recent posts I've read that there are quite a few Fed fans pretty worried about Djokovic at least equalling his WTF record, YE#1 finishes etc

I think you're imparting your own interpretations and biases onto posts. I rarely, if ever, see posts of that ilk other than from people who are already well known muppets.

 

[dudeski]

Hey I would love to see Novak surpas Federer. Novak has best personality as far as I am concerned. Also, if Novak is ahead of Federer that pushes Nadal down to #3 and Sampras down to #4.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Because, basically, it is all about slams. Everything else is secondary.

You misunderstood my post. Whether or not the slams are all that matter, my point was that certain Federer fans seem to resent the fact that Djokovic is doing so well in other metrics and having as dominant a season as Roger did at his peak. I've noticed it bubbling under the surface these past couple of months and just lately it's started to really boil over. Sadly I have a feeling the worst is yet to come......

 

[Deleted member 21996]

During Novaks rise in 2011, federer fans took a liking to Novak. He was the one to stop Nadal's attack on federers title as greatest ever. Now, we see a different view from federer fans everywhere. They never expected this to happen. They are scared now that Novak will be the one to challenge Federer's claim. And this time there is nobody who is looking capable to to stopping Novak like Novak was to Nadal.

much like most sampretarts turning nitro...

 

[Bobby Jr]

You misunderstood my post. Whether or not the slams are all that matter, my point was that certain Federer fans seem to resent the fact that Djokovic is doing so well in other metrics ~~ Sadly I have a feeling the worst is yet to come......

It seems more like you're going to see what you want to see regardless of what an objective viewer would see.

 

[Djokovic2011]

It seems more like you're going to see what you want to see regardless of what an objective viewer would see.

If I didn't see it I'd hardly bother wasting my time saying I had.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

It is not all in numbers. Djokovic is better player than Federer

Based on?
That's an unsubstantiated assertion.

 

[Tennisanity]

During Novaks rise in 2011, federer fans took a liking to Novak. He was the one to stop Nadal's attack on federers title as greatest ever. Now, we see a different view from federer fans everywhere. They never expected this to happen. They are scared now that Novak will be the one to challenge Federer's claim. And this time there is nobody who is looking capable to to stopping Novak like Novak was to Nadal.

Yeah, though pretty understandable, no?

 

[ABCD]

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/rankings/singles

 

[Deleted member 688153]

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/rankings/singles

So you mean he is better in terms of current (and recent - the past calendar year) form.
I don't dispute that, and I'd go as far as saying that he's been the "better player" whenever he has been ranked above Federer (most of the last several years).

But just saying he "is a better player", as you did above, gives the strong impression that you mean overall/career-career/all-time.
That is plainly false, and the rankings website does nothing to back up that assertion.

 

[cc0509]

During Novaks rise in 2011, federer fans took a liking to Novak. He was the one to stop Nadal's attack on federers title as greatest ever. Now, we see a different view from federer fans everywhere. They never expected this to happen. They are scared now that Novak will be the one to challenge Federer's claim. And this time there is nobody who is looking capable to to stopping Novak like Novak was to Nadal.

Nope. I actually like Nadal and he was a much bigger threat to Federer's slam count (and may still be again who knows?) than Djokovic is at the moment. I never liked Djokovic because of his on court behavior and neediness over the years. It has nothing to do with Federer. I like Fedal and I like Murray but I could never warm up to Djokovic. I do respect his consistency and what he's achieved however.

 

[CYGS]

So you mean he is better in terms of current (and recent - the past calendar year) form.
I don't dispute that, and I'd go as far as saying that he's been the "better player" whenever he has been ranked above Federer (most of the last several years).

But just saying he "is a better player", as you did above, gives the strong impression that you mean overall/career-career/all-time.
That is plainly false, and the rankings website does nothing to back up that assertion.

Federer WAS a better player. Djokovic IS a better player. It's that simple.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Federer WAS a better player. Djokovic IS a better player. It's that simple.

Yep. Seems fair enough to me.

 

[TennisHound]

During Novaks rise in 2011, federer fans took a liking to Novak. He was the one to stop Nadal's attack on federers title as greatest ever. Now, we see a different view from federer fans everywhere. They never expected this to happen. They are scared now that Novak will be the one to challenge Federer's claim. And this time there is nobody who is looking capable to to stopping Novak like Novak was to Nadal.

I say this with the utmost respect for you and Novak - stfu noob

 

[Bud]

Djokovic will surpass Nadal and Federer. He's still at his peak and showing zero signs of decline. The advantage he's always had over Nadal is that he's stronger on HC. HC slams are half the season - whereas clay is a quarter. HC MS1000 tournies are two-thirds to one third clay.

Nadal will always be one of the best to play the game, the best ever on clay and will always have a winning H2H versus Federer - who was his main rival when both were close to their primes.

 

[cc0509]

Because, basically, it is all about slams. Everything else is secondary.

You are wasting your time talking to some of these morons.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Djokovic will surpass Nadal and Federer. He's still at his peak and showing zero signs of decline.

My car's petrol tank is full.
I can drive forever!

Nadal will always be one of the best to play the game, the best ever on clay and will always have a winning H2H versus Federer - who was his main rival when both were close to their primes.

Will Federer always be one of the best to play the game?

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Wrong. Novak is a worthy GOAT if he does surpass Federer.

 

[Bud]

My car's petrol tank is full.
I can drive forever!

That's not a good comparison, IMO.

However, you can drive many miles if you keep refueling and keep your vehicle maintained properly.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

That's not a good comparison, IMO.

However, you can drive many miles if you keep refueling and keep your vehicle maintained properly.

My point is obviously that just because everything is going swimmingly there is no guarantee that that will continue, especially when we know, from history, that it will not as all players decline.

But yes, Novak can help himself a lot through physical maintenance, and all the signs are that he is doing just this.

 

[Druss]

If all this is true, then why do so many Fed fans hate Djokovic if they're not threatened by him? Why do they say so many nasty things about him with such passion? If they truly don't feel that he's a threat to Roger's biggest records, why do they act this way? That's the part I don't get.

I can say the same for Djokovic fans and their hate for Federer (and Nadal too)! I know you are one of the more respectable Djoker fans, but seriously there are 's^*t fans around coming from all 3 parties, and tbh Djokovic fans take the cake when it comes to slamming his 2 other ATG rivals.

 

[StannisTheMannis]

You are wasting your time talking to some of these morons.

Throwing insults is the first sign of fear. I haven't insulted any federer fans but what's the first thing you do? Throw an insult.

 

[gn]

Wait until The Tool beats the s*it out of Novak. Then we shall see if you are with The Tool or against The Tool.

 

[Levi_Ackerman]

Lol at this thread. Fed fans be mad as hell!

 

[Doflamingo]

Lol at this thread. Fed fans be mad as hell!

It's funny not too long ago you made a thread completely opposite to this one about jumping ship lmao

​

 

[tennisaddict]

Why should we turn against Novak when he is only at the half way mark ?

 

[Levi_Ackerman]

It's funny not too long ago you made a thread completely opposite to this one about jumping ship lmao

​

I know. And it got deleted. I'm surprised this one is still here tbf. But, I'm not wrong. They be mad as hell. Just check these out:

Please. A lot of Federer fans didn't like Faker back then and don't like him now. What they liked was him kicking Rafa's ass all throughout 2011. And I expect you know this. But who cares. Faker still got sweet F all fans. Faker will decline don't you worry about that.

Insecure Faker fanatical little kids throughout this board. Having to come up with all these stupid threads.

As a Fed fan I've never liked Djoker, even when Fed was beating him like a bad stepchild on a regular basis when he was younger. He snide, over the top personality, his sneer, has always left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

You are wasting your time talking to some of these morons.

 

[NatF]

If all this is true, then why do so many Fed fans hate Djokovic if they're not threatened by him? Why do they say so many nasty things about him with such passion? If they truly don't feel that he's a threat to Roger's biggest records, why do they act this way? That's the part I don't get.

Maybe they find his self-righteous fans annoying? Or maybe they're ticked off that he's denied Federer 3 slams in the last year and a half. That seems more likely.

 

[jelle v]

As primarily a Federer fan and in second place a big Djokovic fan, I would have no problem with Djokovic surpassing Federer.

I'll even go a step further and say that the level of dominance that Djokovic is showing the last years, is at least equal to what Federer showed in 2004-2006.

Only reason I am primarily a Federer fan is because I think Federer plays the most beautiful tennis that even existed, whereas Djokovic is more of a baseline machine that doesn't make any error and brings back every ball at a ridiculous high level.

I also think that Djokovic is the reason of Nadal's decline. 2011 broke Nadal's spirit, just as Nadal was a nail to Federer's coffin. So in that regard, I don't think it is fair to say that Djokovic has no competition. The fact it seems he has little competition, is because he is just that good and disposed of his main rivals.

 

[Steve0904]

As primarily a Federer fan and in second place a big Djokovic fan, I would have no problem with Djokovic surpassing Federer.

I'll even go a step further and say that the level of dominance that Djokovic is showing the last years, is at least equal to what Federer showed in 2004-2006.

Only reason I am primarily a Federer fan is because I think Federer plays the most beautiful tennis that even existed, whereas Djokovic is more of a baseline machine that doesn't make any error and brings back every ball at a ridiculous high level.

I also think that Djokovic is the reason of Nadal's decline. 2011 broke Nadal's spirit, just as Nadal was a nail to Federer's coffin. So in that regard, I don't think it is fair to say that Djokovic has no competition. The fact it seems he has little competition, is because he is just that good and disposed of his main rivals.

Your bias is showing here, I'm afraid. Djokovic is not the main reason for Nadal's decline. Nadal was having a great 2012 before he lost to Rosol and when he came back he finished #1 in 2013 beating Djokovic at RG and the USO. It took until 2014 with Nadal to see any signs of decline and even though he struggled in clay season, he still beat Djokovic at RG for the 3rd year in a row, no less. Nobody has "broken" spirits. After the AO 2009 all Federer did was win RG and Wimbledon back to back to break the slam record. Then he made the USO final and won another AO title in 2010. The only reason any of them will decline is because of aging. Not because of some "spirit breaking" hyperbole.

And I'm not following the dominance logic tbh. Djokovic's slam count since 2011 reads like this: 3, 1, 1, 1, 3. Federer's from 2004-2008 reads 3, 2, 3, 3, 1. I think it's pretty obvious which one is better.

 

[jelle v]

Your bias is showing here, I'm afraid. Djokovic is not the main reason for Nadal's decline. Nadal was having a great 2012 before he lost to Rosol and when he came back he finished #1 in 2013 beating Djokovic at RG and the USO. It took until 2014 with Nadal to see any signs of decline and even though he struggled in clay season, he still beat Djokovic at RG for the 3rd year in a row, no less. Nobody has "broken" spirits. After the AO 2009 all Federer did was win RG and Wimbledon back to back to break the slam record. Then he made the USO final and won another AO title in 2010. The only reason any of them will decline is because of aging. Not because of some "spirit breaking" hyperbole.

And I'm not following the dominance logic tbh. Djokovic's slam count since 2011 reads like this: 3, 1, 1, 1, 3. Federer's from 2004-2008 reads 3, 2, 3, 3, 1. I think it's pretty obvious which one is better.

Ah yes, the logic that one's success or level of dominance is solely based on one's slam tally instead of overall play.. Just because someone doesn't win a grand slam, doesn't mean he is not the man to beat at that particular time and one can only be the man to beat when you are performing better than anyone else. Nadal had a fantastic 2013, so maybe in that year he was on par with Djokovic, but otherwise/overall Djokovic was the man to beat the last few years. I do not see how there can be any discussion about this, I thought it was widely accepted.

To be clear, over the last 5 years (including 2015), Djokovic his results at Grand Slams are as follows:

9 wins
6 finals
4 semis
1 QF

Federer is:

1 win
4 finals
7 semis
4 QF

Nadal is:

5 wins ( 4RG)
4 finals
0 semis
3 QF

So numbers wise Djokovic maybe is not on par with Federer in 2004-2006, but overall I think it is fair to say that Djokovic is the alpha male from 2011 and after.

 

[Steve0904]

Ah yes, the logic that one's success or level of dominance is solely based on one's slam tally instead of overall play.. Just because someone doesn't win a grand slam, doesn't mean he is not the man to beat at that particular time and one can only be the man to beat when you are performing better than anyone else. Nadal had a fantastic 2013, so maybe in that year he was on par with Djokovic, but otherwise/overall Djokovic was the man to beat the last few years. I do not see how there can be any discussion about this, I thought it was widely accepted.

To be clear, over the last 5 years (including 2015), Djokovic his results at Grand Slams are as follows:

9 wins
6 finals
4 semis
1 QF

Federer is:

1 win
4 finals
7 semis
4 QF

Nadal is:

5 wins ( 4RG)
4 finals
0 semis
3 QF

So numbers wise Djokovic maybe is not on par with Federer in 2004-2006, but overall I think it is fair to say that Djokovic is the alpha male from 2011 and after.

It is fair to say that, but I don't see where it "at least" matches (your words) Federer's dominance. Federer's dominance went almost completely uninterrupted. #1 for a very large majority of the time from 2004-2008. Djokovic has lost his #1 position twice since 2011 and even "allowed" Nadal to finish YE#1 in one of those years. Djokovic has been the man to beat, sure, but the difference is that more people actually beat him where it mattered. Hence the slam totals.

And I see you largely ignored my point about Nadal. "Yeah, he had a fantastic 2013, but..." No. It doesn't work like that at all. If a guy comes back and beats you at 2 slams in one year and wins more slams than you do, and finishes the year #1, do you think you "broke his spirit?" It's just a massive exaggeration. Simple as that. Nadal is not only losing to Djokovic this year. He's losing to a large variety of players and that's because he's been running like a madman for 10 years and he's getting older. It's got nothing to do with Djokovic.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

As primarily a Federer fan and in second place a big Djokovic fan, I would have no problem with Djokovic surpassing Federer.

I'll even go a step further and say that the level of dominance that Djokovic is showing the last years, is at least equal to what Federer showed in 2004-2006.

Only reason I am primarily a Federer fan is because I think Federer plays the most beautiful tennis that even existed, whereas Djokovic is more of a baseline machine that doesn't make any error and brings back every ball at a ridiculous high level.

I also think that Djokovic is the reason of Nadal's decline. 2011 broke Nadal's spirit, just as Nadal was a nail to Federer's coffin. So in that regard, I don't think it is fair to say that Djokovic has no competition. The fact it seems he has little competition, is because he is just that good and disposed of his main rivals.

Man, that's some dominance right there! Clearly equal to a guy that never lost to players double or triple the caliber of Nishikori.

Djoko ain't surpassing Federer, you're dreaming if you believe his level is comparable to Federer's from 2004-2006 "these last few years".