Federer fans what does Nadal need to do for him to pass Federer in terms of greatness in your eyes?

If he finishes par on the slam count and also still leads the H2H (both very likely as of today), it's game over imo. Not that Fed fans will give up. They may never. After all, every poll pitting Serena and Graf here ends in a slam dunk for the latter.
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, because you forgot that Michael Chang won a slam aged 17.Also, the day Nadal turned 20 he had the same number of slams as Hewitt had at the same age.
Once again, it's not only about slams. Many teenagers have won slams i.e Becker, Wilander etc. but how many teenagers were as consistent as Rafa in their teens winning soooooooo many matches?:

 
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Easy to say when those are the things you don't have? WTF is meaningless right up until the point he wins it.
Ill be angry with Rafa of he plays WTF. It is an exhibition. Only 8 players who are never the top 8 at that point in time. I have lost count how many times the hottest player on tour (khachanov last year) at the time going into WTF hasnt qualified. It renders it pointless. Thats why winning a slam is so prestigious. The winner will have beaten players playing well above themselves.

WTF is usually consisting of players well below their best.
 
Am I excluding criteria? No. I'm highlighting all criteria. Slams, weeks at No. 1, WTF titles, Masters 1000s, even extra Slam finals adds to the list as they seem to be worth more points than Masters themselves.
YE1 is way more important than weeks at no.1. U missed out Olympic Gold.

WTF is the one i will never accept as relevant. Nothing to do with Nadal. Its just not what tennis is about. A round robin format of only 8 players...its just about money.

Weeks at no.1 i dont value but fair enough if u do its just i prefer YE1. That said i still hope Nadal doesnt chase it. I can live with Djokovic having more YE1s. None of the BIg 3 can expect to have everything to themselves.

As for Olympics i value it massively as its an Olympic Gold. Surely any sportsperson wants one?
 
Again, just pure mendacity. It's hilarious how the non-Fed fans continually speak for Fed fans and get it wrong. So let me correct this: if Djokovic gets the most weeks at #1, he will surpass Fed and it will be a great achievement. No Fed fan is "moving the goal posts" or diminishing this (IF it happens).
All i can see from Fed fans mainly is Nadal will not be GOAT even if he hits 25 slams lol.

The contradiction is funny tbh
 
Endless Fed fans have stated in this thread that if Rafa gets 21 slams, he's GOAT. So don't let facts get in the way of your obsession with Nadal.
Whereas the actual players seem to rever Laver. We can talk about best this era but this GOAT term needs eradicating.

Players from past eras did not have the luxuries the players today have.
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
YE1 is way more important than weeks at no.1. U missed out Olympic Gold.

WTF is the one i will never accept as relevant. Nothing to do with Nadal. Its just not what tennis is about. A round robin format of only 8 players...its just about money.

Weeks at no.1 i dont value but fair enough if u do its just i prefer YE1. That said i still hope Nadal doesnt chase it. I can live with Djokovic having more YE1s. None of the BIg 3 can expect to have everything to themselves.

As for Olympics i value it massively as its an Olympic Gold. Surely any sportsperson wants one?
Yeah, I forgot about Olympics Gold. It's a valuable achievement for sure.

Weeks at No. 1 and YE No. 1 are both important, for sure. I think this is just a mutual disagreement in how important they are relative to each other.

I rate WTF highly because it is incredibly hard to end up with an easy draw and you can clock up to five top 10 wins. Take a look at Federer's WTF 2010 win (or even Davydenko's in 2009 or Djokovic's the year before):

Here was his Round-Robin:

Ferrer
Murray
Soderling

Here was his SF-F combo:

Djokovic
Nadal

I just can't denigrate a tournament like this. Complain about the format all you want, but it's a meaningless complaint when winning the tournament is as hard as it is. I guess you can make the argument that not all of these players are ranked according to indoor tennis prowess, but the same can be said for top seeds in clay court tournaments (and why I actually approve of Wimbledon's controversial seeding formula, but that's a discussion for another day).
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
Federer would be very disappointed to know that his fans are so unfulfilled. They seem to be always trying to justify his greatness, Such a shame.
 
Yeah, I forgot about Olympics Gold. It's a valuable achievement for sure.

Weeks at No. 1 and YE No. 1 are both important, for sure. I think this is just a mutual disagreement in how important they are relative to each other.

I rate WTF highly because it is incredibly hard to end up with an easy draw and you can clock up to five top 10 wins. Take a look at Federer's WTF 2010 win (or even Davydenko's in 2009 or Djokovic's the year before):

Here was his Round-Robin:

Ferrer
Murray
Soderling

Here was his SF-F combo:

Djokovic
Nadal

I just can't denigrate a tournament like this. Complain about the format all you want, but it's a meaningless complaint when winning the tournament is as hard as it is. I guess you can make the argument that not all of these players are ranked according to indoor tennis prowess, but the same can be said for top seeds in clay court tournaments (and why I actually approve of Wimbledon's controversial seeding formula, but that's a discussion for another day).
Tennis through the year is knock out but then the end if year event is round robin..it just doesnt sit well with me. Also often the players in it are nowhere near there best. Last year Khachanov was the hot player at the time yet not in the event. It may be top 8 for the year but its not top 8 for the week.

Ive no problem with it indoors. I like different surfaces and would love more grass events.

What about to make post grand slam season exiting the WTF is the top 8 players from USO onwards? That would make it interesting and kind of a mini season? That way it means u could get a hot Kyrgios qualify which would be great as he may be up for it and we all know how good he can be...but highly unlikely he ever makes top 8 as he cant stay focussed
 

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
Tennis through the year is knock out but then the end if year event is round robin..it just doesnt sit well with me. Also often the players in it are nowhere near there best. Last year Khachanov was the hot player at the time yet not in the event. It may be top 8 for the year but its not top 8 for the week.

Ive no problem with it indoors. I like different surfaces and would love more grass events.

What about to make post grand slam season exiting the WTF is the top 8 players from USO onwards? That would make it interesting and kind of a mini season? That way it means u could get a hot Kyrgios qualify which would be great as he may be up for it and we all know how good he can be...but highly unlikely he ever makes top 8 as he cant stay focussed
how many breaks throughout the year do the top players have?3 or 4 weeks at a time but come the wtf they are exhausted?
5 or 6 weeks later theyre brand new and ready to go again hey?
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Nadal won't ever be able to overshadow Federer even if Nadal wins 23 Slams. Mainly because people saw Federer as a sublime and elegant player with an easy flowing style whereas Nadal was like a bull rampaging on the court going for every shot. It's like the artist vs the workhorse. Federer was just the cooler player to watch with an all court style and made tennis look super easy. He's firmly placed in his position in history as one of the greatest to ever play the game. Nadal will join him up there. But one's legacy won't truly overshadow the other. People will stick with their favourites to eternity. As for Djokovic, he will never be adored the way these two guys are unfortunately. He doesn't have the look, the personality, the charisma of these guys. And he was never a hot ticket or a big draw in television ratings. He'll still go down as one of the greatest but not someone who will overshadow the other two guys despite the H2H.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
Tennis through the year is knock out but then the end if year event is round robin..it just doesnt sit well with me. Also often the players in it are nowhere near there best. Last year Khachanov was the hot player at the time yet not in the event. It may be top 8 for the year but its not top 8 for the week.

Ive no problem with it indoors. I like different surfaces and would love more grass events.

What about to make post grand slam season exiting the WTF is the top 8 players from USO onwards? That would make it interesting and kind of a mini season? That way it means u could get a hot Kyrgios qualify which would be great as he may be up for it and we all know how good he can be...but highly unlikely he ever makes top 8 as he cant stay focussed
WTF should just becaome an Indoors Slam. Then we can retrospectively give Fed six more Slams.:-D
 

Enga

Hall of Fame
I imagine that many Nadal fans never thought of Federer as the GOAT despite him having more titles than Nadal. I dont think Nadal could ever surpass Federer in my mind, for tennis as a whole. For clay, yes, and for having amazing power and ferocity, yes. But as a super skilled, amazing hand eye coordination extraordinaire? None surpass Federer for me. He is the greatest in my mind, an example of what the perfect tennis player might look like. Does he live up to those expectations of perfection? No. But is he the closest? For me, yes. But just as an example, to me McEnroe may be even greater than Federer in the sense of what the greatest tennis player with amazing hand eye coordination might look like. At least with wooden rackets, his tennis was THE ideal.
 
how many breaks throughout the year do the top players have?3 or 4 weeks at a time but come the wtf they are exhausted?
5 or 6 weeks later theyre brand new and ready to go again hey?
Players are not interested about WTF look how many skip it who qualify. Ill bet Thiem Nadal dont play this year.
 

BlueB

Legend
Not a Fed fan, but I like his game more then Rafa's, so here's my opinion:
1 slam on top of whatever Fed has (one preferably being AO)
+ at least 1 WTF
+ weeks at #1 at least close to Fed's and more then Nole
At those numbers, there would be nothing left to discuss.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal won't ever be able to overshadow Federer even if Nadal wins 23 Slams. Mainly because people saw Federer as a sublime and elegant player with an easy flowing style whereas Nadal was like a bull rampaging on the court going for every shot. It's like the artist vs the workhorse. Federer was just the cooler player to watch with an all court style and made tennis look super easy. He's firmly placed in his position in history as one of the greatest to ever play the game. Nadal will join him up there. But one's legacy won't truly overshadow the other. People will stick with their favourites to eternity. As for Djokovic, he will never be adored the way these two guys are unfortunately. He doesn't have the look, the personality, the charisma of these guys. And he was never a hot ticket or a big draw in television ratings. He'll still go down as one of the greatest but not someone who will overshadow the other two guys despite the H2H.
Rafa Novak fans trashing Federers boring goat talk party like:

Federer aint THAT kind of charisma Rafa and Novak has got. You can see it on his fans, he is a safe shot for a certain type of men and women ;)
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Rafa Novak fans trashing Federers boring goat talk party like:

Federer aint THAT kind of charisma Rafa and Novak has got. You can see it on his fans, he is a safe shot for a certain type of men and women ;)
Yeah...I see it in Rafa's fans....women aged 55 and up. Novak has no fans. Just bandwagoners who like him for a brief moment only when he beats one or the other.
 
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