Federer Fragile Mentally

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lordmanji

Guest
he only converted one of THIRTEEN break points. especially against rafa, federer seems unable to close out games and sets against rafa.

he had three or four break chances to even the set in the first set; later in the second, he was up 4-1 and he goes on to lose the set. the remaining sets featured more break chances that federer could not convert. this happened all throughout this year's clay court finals against nadal where he has a chance to win the set or game but doesn't. nadal has gotten into federer's head and despite what fed has said that nadal has only made him tougher, the opposite seems to be true that the only thing learned from losing is learning to lose. federer seems to be playing worse against rafa and even worse when he's in a position to win, which strongly implies that federer does not believe he can win against nadal and so chokes away those opportunities. its alarming that this failure of nerve is now not only limited to clay but fed's strongest surface - grass.

the final challenge is the us open where if nadal can make it to the final, it is a sure win for him against fed.
 
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he only converted one of THIRTEEN break points. especially against rafa, federer seems unable to close out games and sets against rafa.

he had three or four break chances to even the set in the first set; later in the second, he was up 4-1 and he goes on to lose the set. the remaining sets featured more break chances that federer could not convert. this happened all throughout this year's clay court finals against nadal where he has a chance to win the set or game but doesn't. nadal has gotten into federer's head and despite what fed has said that nadal has only made him tougher, federer seems to be playing worse against rafa and even worse when he's in a position to win, which strongly implies that federer does not believe he can win against nadal and so chokes away those opportunities. its alarming that this failure of nerve is now not only limited to clay but fed's strongest surface - grass.

the final challenge is the us open where if nadal can make it to the final, it is a sure win for him against fed.

We will see about that. Yesterday either player could have won; both
played an amazing match that was a privilege to watch. IF they both
make it the the US Open final, we should expect nothing less.
 

Cenc

Hall of Fame
finally someone saw how strong mentally federer really is...
so many such matches: hamburg this year
nalba in MC finals
safin in aus open finals
gasquet once in monte carlo
nadal in roma finals few years ago
and many more
 

A.Davidson

Semi-Pro
the final challenge is the us open where if nadal can make it to the final, it is a sure win for him against fed.

This is simply untrue.

Nadal's WORST SURFACE is hardcourts, while it is a middle ground for Roger.

He may win, but it isn't a "sure win" by any stretch of the imagination.
 
You don't come back two sets down against Nadal and then put yourself in a position to win it by being mentally fragile.
 

mcenroefan

Hall of Fame
I don't agree re the US Open. The surface is faster than Wimby. I would bet on Federer over Nadal there. I would also bet on Joker over Nadal at the Open assuming Novak looks as good as he did in last year's Open.

The Open surface is faster than Wimby. Also, whereas on clay and grass Nadal beats up his oppoents with very little ill-effect on himself, on hard courts I think Nadal's style eventually takes a toll on him.
 

Breaker

Legend
finally someone saw how strong mentally federer really is...
so many such matches: hamburg this year
nalba in MC finals
safin in aus open finals
gasquet once in monte carlo
nadal in roma finals few years ago
and many more

Wimbledon '03
Aussie Open, Wimbledon, US Open '04
Wimbledon, US Open '05
Aussie Open, Wimbledon, US Open '06
Aussie Open, Wimbledon, US Open '07

Sure is mentally weak, maybe these retirement threads have meaning after all...
 

McLovin

Legend
Yeah, i was just about to point out that, other than the French, he was 12 - 0 in GS finals. Just sit back and think about that for a minute...

And all that with a weak backhand... :roll:
 

Cenc

Hall of Fame
you cannot comment his mental strenght in matches he played against players he was always defeating and matches in which fed believed he was going to win
its a fact that he lost nearly all tough matches against nadal and some other players who beat him few times before
 

Nadal_Freak

Banned
Fed won sets 3 and 4 in tiebreaks. I think he got worn down physically in the 5th set. Nadal was feeling it in the first 2 sets though and nothing Fed could do.
 

Breaker

Legend
you cannot comment his mental strenght in matches he played against players he was always defeating and matches in which fed believed he was going to win
its a fact that he lost nearly all tough matches against nadal and some other players who beat him few times before

Wimbledon '06-'07?

I guess Nadal is mentally weak then since he only plays Federer in grand slam finals, if only Rafa had better competition we could see his true mental strength.
 

Cenc

Hall of Fame
Yeah, i was just about to point out that, other than the French, he was 12 - 0 in GS finals.  Just sit back and think about that for a minute...And all that with a weak backhand... :roll:
and with weak opponents btw, yes federer did win 3rd and 4th set in TB but1) he should have lost the set n4, he won it because nadal got nervous serving for 1st wimby title2) as i remember against safin he didnt hit a single 1st serve in TBwhen talking about mental - its easy to have cold blood when playing against players that never beat you and that just dont believe themselves they can do thatwhy doesnt he prove mental skills beating nadal in french? do you remember when he won the 61 set and then lost a match?!why didnt he play perfectly 4th set tiebreak then?!
 
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Cenc

Hall of Fame
Wimbledon '06-'07?

I guess Nadal is mentally weak then since he only plays Federer in grand slam finals, if only Rafa had better competition we could see his true mental strength.

federer is BETTER player than nadal
thats 1st and it would be a shame for tennis if nadal played finals on each single tournament
but nadal is a fighter who always gives his best and i give him credit for that although i dont think he is an amazing player
federer has strong game but his mental is just bad, have u ever thought that his backhand and volley mistakes are caused by his lack of self confidence?!
 

Azzurri

Legend
Another thread started by an extremely ignorant poster.:shock: Nadal and Federer are as tough as they come. This should be a short thread.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
I don't think coming back from two sets down is fragile mentally. I believe that tanking the third set 6-1, after being down two sets down would be fragile mentally.

Roger got beat. The point difference was very slim.
 

oberyn

Professional
No man has come from match points down to win Wimbledon in the last 50 years.

I can't call Federer mentally weak for only (sarcasm) managing to push the match to 7-9 in the 5th set.

Nadal has always been a bad matchup for Federer.

A mentally weak player would have thrown in the towel after being down 2 sets to 0 to the player who thrashed him in the French Open final a few weeks earlier. Federer didn't do that.
 

Cenc

Hall of Fame
federer was fighting but he was just too afraid of playing nadal in important points, match point saved was NADALS fault, nothing done by federer, nadal had easy forehand in that point

and remember feds forehand in the 5th set on BP, with ram

although he surprised me a bit in this match how many BP he saved with serve but in the end... he still fell

many matches can prove that in big moments fed has troubles
he is strong when he has to keep the lead except against nadal
but when he is in tough position, he usually loses.
describe me something: world number one whos 5th set record is 50%
wow
 
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lordmanji

Guest
this is the one thing you guys are missing: federer puts himself in a position to win, that is with 13 break point chances, and converts only ONE of thirteen. this shows that when fed is in a position to WIN against nadal, he chokes. first clay, now grass, and eventually hard court. i dont care that he won the third (which nadal choked away) and fourth sets in tiebreaks because he was never in a position to win the match. it's a lot easier going for your shots when you're down two sets to love and have nothing to lose than when youre shown the glimpse of holding the championship.

if fed didnt choke on 13 break point chances, what was it? did nadal play superior tennis all of a sudden TWELVE STRAIGHT TIMES?
 
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MariaS

Semi-Pro
I don't think Fed is mentally weak. I think is naturally mentally strong. BUT I was watching his footwork and movements playing Nadal. Seems to me he's just a tad slower than he use to be. Same good shots if he's there; but if he gets there a sec late, not the same shot. :-?
 
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lordmanji

Guest
I don't think Fed is mentally weak. I think is naturally mentally strong. BUT I was watching his footwork and movements playing Nadal. Seems to me he's just a tad slower than he use to be. Same good shots if he's there; but if he gets there a sec late, not the same shot. :-?

i agree. he was the sharpest this year movement-wise early in the claycourt season. he was unsurpassed in movement at the 07 us open. but i think the movement as a contributing factor in his loss is minimal. rather, his faith in his groundstrokes on nadal's serve during break point chances was a direct cause in his loss. he stopped hitting through his backhand especially and would often jump up and open his shoulders too early on his forehand.
 

wangs78

Legend
The truth is that Fed has a mental block against Nadal. It's sad really. Based solely on their abilities Fed has the edge on grass and Nadal on clay. However, Fed has basically played with the mental block in the Wimby finals for 2 years now. He was lucky that he won last year and he was unlucky that he lost this year. The problem with Fed is all mental. His natural / physical talents are still unrivaled.
 

richard71

New User
federer is BETTER player than nadal
thats 1st and it would be a shame for tennis if nadal played finals on each single tournament
but nadal is a fighter who always gives his best and i give him credit for that although i dont think he is an amazing player
federer has strong game but his mental is just bad, have u ever thought that his backhand and volley mistakes are caused by his lack of self confidence?!

Completely agree. Fed played the first two sets very scared. In the second set when he was 4-1 up he didn't even try to break Nadal but just gave the games away thinking that his own serve would give him the second set and he got punished. Nadal fights for every point and gives nothing away. The fact that Federer came back is just because he's the better player and has more talent but he didn't came back because of his fighting spirit. If he had the mentality of Nadal then Federer would have won.
 

Coria

Banned
he only converted one of THIRTEEN break points. especially against rafa, federer seems unable to close out games and sets against rafa.

he had three or four break chances to even the set in the first set; later in the second, he was up 4-1 and he goes on to lose the set. the remaining sets featured more break chances that federer could not convert. this happened all throughout this year's clay court finals against nadal where he has a chance to win the set or game but doesn't. nadal has gotten into federer's head and despite what fed has said that nadal has only made him tougher, the opposite seems to be true that the only thing learned from losing is learning to lose. federer seems to be playing worse against rafa and even worse when he's in a position to win, which strongly implies that federer does not believe he can win against nadal and so chokes away those opportunities. its alarming that this failure of nerve is now not only limited to clay but fed's strongest surface - grass.

the final challenge is the us open where if nadal can make it to the final, it is a sure win for him against fed.

YOU ARE A FIRST CLASS MORON MY FRIEND. Federer is one of the mentally toughest players the game has ever seen. You don't win 12 majors, get to 3 French finals, win countless Masters' series events, 5 straight Wimbledons and over 60 tournaments by not being incredibly mentally tough. You don't get to how many semis or better in major after major after major after freaking major without being incredibly mentally tough. People like you are idiots--plain and simple. You are an idiot and anybody that agrees with you. Shut up and don't post anymore. You are an embarrassment to the human race.
 

wangs78

Legend
Completely agree. Fed played the first two sets very scared. In the second set when he was 4-1 up he didn't even try to break Nadal but just gave the games away thinking that his own serve would give him the second set and he got punished. Nadal fights for every point and gives nothing away. The fact that Federer came back is just because he's the better player and has more talent but he didn't came back because of his fighting spirit. If he had the mentality of Nadal then Federer would have won.

Yes, exactly. It's such a shame for Fed that his glaring weakness is his mind. If he did not have this mental issue I think he would have 1-2 FO titles and 6 Wimby titles today.
 

Cenc

Hall of Fame
17 GS Semi-Finals or better. How weak is that?

seems that you people a la fedfan just dont read anything and just write one same post all the time
like: he is not mentally weak because he won 1222 grand slams and u didnt think it was because he played against scared and bad gonzo in finals? or baghdatis lol?
or similar when someone says sampras is better than federer and you say: sampras had no game for clay so he cannot be better so it seems only one surface counts so we can stop talking about fed-sampras think and start talking about nadal-guga who is the goat because only clay counts lol

federer is strong mentally playing against players who get impressed by center court, finals blablabla but when a real challenge comes
nadal now
safin in aussie
nalba at masters cup
what happenes? fed loses all tough matches
 

wangs78

Legend
seems that you people a la fedfan just dont read anything and just write one same post all the time
like: he is not mentally weak because he won 1222 grand slams and u didnt think it was because he played against scared and bad gonzo in finals? or baghdatis lol?
or similar when someone says sampras is better than federer and you say: sampras had no game for clay so he cannot be better so it seems only one surface counts so we can stop talking about fed-sampras think and start talking about nadal-guga who is the goat because only clay counts lol

federer is strong mentally playing against players who get impressed by center court, finals blablabla but when a real challenge comes
nadal now
safin in aussie
nalba at masters cup
what happenes? fed loses all tough matches

Dude. I can't follow your stream of consciousness post. Do you talk like this too? No offense.
 

tennisdude083

Semi-Pro
this is the one thing you guys are missing: federer puts himself in a position to win, that is with 13 break point chances, and converts only ONE of thirteen. this shows that when fed is in a position to WIN against nadal, he chokes. first clay, now grass, and eventually hard court. i dont care that he won the third (which nadal choked away) and fourth sets in tiebreaks because he was never in a position to win the match. it's a lot easier going for your shots when you're down two sets to love and have nothing to lose than when youre shown the glimpse of holding the championship.

if fed didnt choke on 13 break point chances, what was it? did nadal play superior tennis all of a sudden TWELVE STRAIGHT TIMES?

not necessarily, but fed certainly didnt choke TWELVE STRAIGHT TIMES
 

Cenc

Hall of Fame
i didnt try to offend anyone but some guys here really write same posts over and over again
if anyone is offended, sry but i just dont understand why dont u answer my questions (fedfans) but instead you say:
he won 392 titles how can that be mentally weak..............................................................................
 

Kobble

Hall of Fame
Federer is mentally tough. What match did the OP watch? People are used to Fed beating mentally weak players with clear weaknesses in their games. Nadal doesn't fit the norm on tour, therefore, he can win against Federer. Truth be told, I thought Roger was going to continue to hold in the 5th set.
 
I don't agree re the US Open. The surface is faster than Wimby. I would bet on Federer over Nadal there. I would also bet on Joker over Nadal at the Open assuming Novak looks as good as he did in last year's Open.

The Open surface is faster than Wimby. Also, whereas on clay and grass Nadal beats up his oppoents with very little ill-effect on himself, on hard courts I think Nadal's style eventually takes a toll on him.

You're an idiot. Grass is the fastest surface.
 
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Cenc

Hall of Fame
wow1) clay is slowest and then comes grass right nowgrass from 90s is the fastest court ever made2) i agree with mcenroefan in nearly every single word
 

richard71

New User
You're an idiot. Grass is the fastest surface.

They have slowed down the surface. Grass is much slower today.

In 2001, Wimbledon tore out all its courts and planted a new variety of groundcover. The new grass was 100% perennial rye; the old courts had been a mix of 70% rye and 30% creeping red fescue. The new lawn was more durable, and allowed Wimbledon's groundsmen to keep the soil underneath drier and firmer. A firmer surface causes the ball to bounce higher. A high bounce is anathema to the serve-and-volley player, who relies on approach shots skidding low through the court. What's more, rye, unlike fescue, grows in tufts that stand straight up; these tufts slow a tennis ball down as it lands.
 

NikeWilson

Semi-Pro
altho Federer is generally the more mentally weaker player, he did show a lot of mental toughness throughout crucial times in the match.
and on the other hand, altho Nadal is usually the most mentally strongest player in history, he did make some crucial mental errors in the 4th set tie breaker when he could've finished off the match.
so, even the best players feel pressure.
 

Cenc

Hall of Fame
nadal is mentally strongest right now
sampras is mentally strongest ever although i give all credit to nadal who really showed great mental skills in many matches thats his main weapon (with speed) imo
btw i am not nadal fan i just try to look as fair as i can at everything in tennis
 
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lordmanji

Guest
there are too many posters calling others idiots. mods should really take a harder look at the quality of postings here.

overall, i think on a surface other than clay, fed is the stronger player. but as john mcenroe said, rafa's backhand is now stronger than fed's backhand. forehand i'll say is even. mental edge ill obviously give to rafa. movement equal. serve to fed. net to fed tho he made a mess of some easy volleys in the final. difference at net is neglible since rafa doesnt come in enough. return is obviously rafa. i thought it might be neutralized by fed's serve but since rafa has a much higher percentage of breaks than fed, i gave it to rafa.

so right now i think rafa has an edge over fed in the argument of who's the better player. fed's backhand will never be as consistent tho its def better than sampras'. so the only thing really that fed can do to win against rafa is improve his mental toughness, and by doing so i think he'll improve as a consequence his volleys too.
 
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lordmanji

Guest
I agree Wimbledon's grass is slower today than in the past. But is it slower than a hard court? I think not.

yes i recall several times commentators saying the us open is faster than wimbledon prob since 06. the grass seems faster since it stays low but theyve also said it sits up longer in the air too. imo, the us open is now fed's strongest surface since his attacking tennis can pay such huge dividends and unreturnables. plus, rafa isnt there :twisted:
 

Nadal_Freak

Banned
yes i recall several times commentators saying the us open is faster than wimbledon prob since 06. the grass seems faster since it stays low but theyve also said it sits up longer in the air too. imo, the us open is now fed's strongest surface since his attacking tennis can pay such huge dividends and unreturnables. plus, rafa isnt there :twisted:
Federer would rather play anyone on grass over hardcourts except Nadal. The courts at Wimbledon are slippery, soft, and exaggerate spin due to unpredictable bounces. Clay has the same characteristics. Hardcourts have more traction, hard, and don't exaggerate spin due to predictable bounces. Most people grew up on hardcourts so it is their homecourt advantage when they play Rafa. Nadal struggles on slow hardcourts almost as much as fast hardcourts so the speed isn't the issue with Nadal on hardcourts. The same deal with Federer except Federer gets a lot more free points on his serve than Nadal but Federer has more competition on hardcourts.
 

wangs78

Legend
sampras is mentally strongest ever although i give all credit to nadal who really showed great mental skills in many matches thats his main weapon (with speed) imo

I think you're right on this point. Sampras never showed a hint of nerves in any of his matches I think. Either he had nerves of steel or he just had a great poker face. With other players you visibly see them get tight but with Sampras it was same expression, the same attitude no matter what. When you had a serve like Sampras, confidence will come naturally to you.
 

Cenc

Hall of Fame
yes i agree
but not only that
i mean remember when he served 2 second serve aces against agassi or amazing 2nd serve ace in the 5th set tb in uso quaters 96
or tons of 5 set wins
2nd serve ace on match point against agassi to win 6th wimbledon etc
players are now not able to do that at all
but
nadal is a fighter and he always gives everything just like pistol pete did and thats why i definitely think he is mentally the strongest player now
so my rankings would be (about mental skills between actual players)
1) nadal
----
----
---
x) federer, đoković
and then i dont know
 

joke-a-vich

Rookie
are you joking me? lets see you have enough mental toughness to come win two sets in a row after losing the first two sets, when that hasn't happend for about 5 years, and take it to 9-7 in the fifth. granted he did do very poor on converting break points but he still showed me how mentaly tough he is. adn they both showed why they are the top 2 in the world for sure.
 

PROTENNIS63

Hall of Fame
Fed is not mentally weak. Both played terrific tennis. Nadal was serving at 5-2 in the 4th set tiebreak and Fed came back. Both deserve to win in my eyes.
 
hate to say that. love federer but he's mentally weak when nadal on the other side. Fed is #1. he played terrific tennis in 4th set tie break but was tetanized the first 2 sets. he shouldn't have lost the first 2 sets that way, neither the FO final winning only 4 games with his skills and experience. he should not have missed 17 breakpoints in Paris last year and 13 breakpoints on sunday if he had no mental weakness. when you love somebody you have to tell him the truth. hope his close entourage tell me he has a mental problem and not that he's the best, that he has no weakness, but lack of chance, was unlucky day was windy.... He'll be a great champon and won even more if he admits nadal complex and ego problem. no offense to him. adore the swiss.
 
hate to say that. love federer but he's mentally weak when nadal on the other side. Fed is #1. he played terrific tennis in 4th set tie break but was tetanized the first 2 sets. he shouldn't have lost the first 2 sets that way, neither the FO final winning only 4 games with his skills and experience. he should not have missed 17 breakpoints in Paris last year and 13 breakpoints on sunday if he had no mental weakness. when you love somebody you have to tell him the truth. hope his close entourage tell him he has a mental problem, he won't listen to me;-) , and hope they're not telling him all the time that he's the best, that he has no weakness, but lack of chance, was unlucky day was windy, the field was slow blablabla.... He'll be a great champion and won even more if he admits his nadal complex and ego problem. no offense to him. adore the swiss
 

Swissv2

Hall of Fame
he only converted one of THIRTEEN break points. especially against rafa, federer seems unable to close out games and sets against rafa.

he had three or four break chances to even the set in the first set; later in the second, he was up 4-1 and he goes on to lose the set. the remaining sets featured more break chances that federer could not convert. this happened all throughout this year's clay court finals against nadal where he has a chance to win the set or game but doesn't. nadal has gotten into federer's head and despite what fed has said that nadal has only made him tougher, the opposite seems to be true that the only thing learned from losing is learning to lose. federer seems to be playing worse against rafa and even worse when he's in a position to win, which strongly implies that federer does not believe he can win against nadal and so chokes away those opportunities. its alarming that this failure of nerve is now not only limited to clay but fed's strongest surface - grass.

the final challenge is the us open where if nadal can make it to the final, it is a sure win for him against fed.


First, you have to give Nadal credit for getting under Fed's skin. Against any other player, Federer would find a way to dominate. Period.


Second, you don't call someone mentally fragile after he realizes his mistakes and fights back 2 sets to even the match at 2 all, then leads the 4th set until some breaks at the very end.

Someone who is mentally fragil will quit in set 3. End of discussion.
 
no end of discussion. you can play terrific after a terrible start. I think Fed is great champion, maybe the GOAT, but he's not perfect. he was mentally fragile when he was younger. He is who he is. he will improve if he can faces it. he's mentally weak when he plays nadal. that's obvious. he has to think about it, if it the question is taboo he'll never beat him again. it dosn't mean he's a chicken. it won't help him telling he's not mentally fragile in some ocassions. he fight back. great. I think he could have won the first two sets. no offense to wonderful Nadal. Fed is more talented. But nadal is mentally stronger.
 
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