Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Maybe. But it has happened several times in the past with greater depth of ATG competition, in my view. Scroll up.
Federer had it the toughest out of the Big 3
- Thread starter Druss
- Start date
Maybe. But it has happened several times in the past with greater depth of ATG competition, in my view. Scroll up.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Are you being serious? You're saying people shouldn't consider him one of the greatest players ever?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Well, I don't agree with that and tbh I don't think it really matters. The point I was trying to make to @King Roger was that Murray has at least been a consistent rival to Djokovic at the AO which wasn't the case with Federer in his prime.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
What's so wrong in beating all the others and then losing to the top dog in the final?
NatF
Bionic Poster
You're full of it sometimes mate
Murray in the AO 2011 and 2016 finals played his best?
Your agenda is so obvious these days, 'consistent rival' aye...why is having the same rival over and over more of a challenge than several different players? What matters is how they perform on the day surely.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
But Murray did play well in 2012,13 and 15 so 3 out of 5 ain't badYou're full of it sometimes mate
Murray in the AO 2011 and 2016 finals played his best?
Your agenda is so obvious these days, 'consistent rival' aye...why is having the same rival over and over more of a challenge than several different players? What matters is how they perform on the day surely.
NatF
Bionic Poster
But Murray did play well in 2012,13 and 15 so 3 out of 5 ain't bad
He collapsed after about 2 sets in each of 2013 and 2015. In 2013 for example he went from 24 winners and 25 errors in the first 2 sets to 10 winners and 22 errors in the last 2. I don't call just 2 sets of good play Murray's best.
The 2012 match is the exception...
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
During the entire stretch of Federer's approximately 8-year prime, he won an average of six matches (out of a possible seven) a year at the AO, collecting four titles along the way. During those same years, when Djokovic played the AO, he won an average of three matches a year, collecting but one title. They split their two matches, but there were only two because only one player showed up late in tournaments, and it wasn't Djokovic.
If there were failures to come through in that era, they weren't Federer's. He owned that era, which included plenty of fields where Djokovic wasn't up to the challenge.
Now is that fair to a young Djokovic? I'd say irrelevant, but it's Djokovic fanbois who want to bring it up, so whatever.
Both guys have had their primes, and faced each other in fields when the other guy wasn't in his. Federer won during his prime, and fought his way deep into draws when he wasn't in it any more. Djokovic won during his prime too, but came up like a mug most of the rest of the time.
Were they consistent rivals in that era? Well, they were .500. But I'd say it was more like the rivalry between the hammer and the nail.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Still what I'd call playing well overall.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I've absolutely no idea what you're talking about
NatF
Bionic Poster
Perhaps it's arguable. Still hardly a leap from the guys Federer had in his draws...
I do think Djokovic had the tougher wins at the AO but it's not because of Murray.
All very good players indeed but none of them exactly Murray like in the consistency department
You're right but we're discussing level of competition in a one off grand slam match rather than all round consistency.
07 Gonzalez or 04-05 Safin are tougher competition than Murray has ever been in an AO final. Same as Nalbandian imo then Roddick too at least equal.
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Fed's 04 AO draw was tougher than any of Djokovic's. He had to play like 4 top players in a row or something.
07 is comparable to 2012 12 probably slightly harder thanks to Nadal in the F.
08,11, 13,15,16 all about equal to 06 and 10. Actually 2010 tougher than 16 which was a joke draw (pigeon Murray in the F, grandad Fed mugged up the SF)
07 is comparable to 2012 12 probably slightly harder thanks to Nadal in the F.
08,11, 13,15,16 all about equal to 06 and 10. Actually 2010 tougher than 16 which was a joke draw (pigeon Murray in the F, grandad Fed mugged up the SF)
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Roddick has never really been that good at the AO, despite reaching 4 SF's. His matches with Fed there weren't really close. At the USO and Wimb Roddick wasn't easy competition for Fed, but at the AO he was.
About the same as Murray ( Djokovic's main rival at AO 4 finals/6 ) except Fed had tougher opponents than Roddick.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
The final isn't the only match that matters. Murray was a handful for Djokovic in the 2012 SF, even if it wasn't a final.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
For what? Stating the truth?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fed did play opponents who played pretty well at the AO.You're full of it sometimes mate
Murray in the AO 2011 and 2016 finals played his best?
Your agenda is so obvious these days, 'consistent rival' aye...why is having the same rival over and over more of a challenge than several different players? What matters is how they perform on the day surely.
Hewitt was on par with 2013 and 2015 Murray there and better than Murray of 2011 and 2016.
Nalbandian played better than Murray of 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2016.
Davydenko played better than Murray of 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2016.
Gonzo played better than Murray in 2011 and 2016.
Baghdatis played as well as Murray in 2013 and to a lesser extent 2015.
Amended my post. Murray is a joke at AO/RG. About the same as Roddick at AO when it comes down to the F or even SF.
Nadal 2012 = Safin 05 so fair play Djokovic won that Fed didn't. Then for Wawrinka 15 you've got Gonzalez 07, Safin 04, Nalbandian 04, Verdasco 04, and I think Hewitt 04?
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
You don't seem to hold that against Safin and Gonzo who lost the finals in straight sets though.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
But there were times when Murray was tougher at the AO than Roddick at the AO. Murray at least pushed Djokovic to 5 sets once and took sets on other occasions. Roddick never took a single set off Federer in their AO matches.
Murray on average >> Roddick at the AO.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Overall I'd say that Djokovic on averarge had it harder than Federer at the AO.
However, Federer had it harder than Djokovic at Wimb and there were times when Federer had it harder than Djokovic at the USO too.
However, Federer had it harder than Djokovic at Wimb and there were times when Federer had it harder than Djokovic at the USO too.
That's mainly because Federer is a better player than Djokovic, who never dominated in the manner Fed did, and also is a defensive pusher player a weaker pusher in Murray.
Djokovic main USO final wins were vs Nadal and Grandad Fed. Not quite as tough as Agassi, Roddick, Djokovic, Hewitt etc. Plus he mugged up a final to his pigeon Murray lol.
That's because Peak Fed is a better player than Djokovic is so I don't hold it against any player who gets owned by Fed.
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
That's not the case at Australian Open though.
In my opinion Fed had it harder even at FO. For me Nadal on clay was in better 05-11 (Fed's clay prime) than 11-16 (Novak's clay prime). And eventhough Novak lost in 07-08 in SF to Rafa, even without Rafa Fed would be big favourite in the final (asuming Novak defeat his other SF opponent) in these years.
Could be for AO 07.That's not the case at Australian Open though.
Absolutely.
And yeah djokovic has the most AO so can't really argue but I'd still put my money on 04-07 Fed winning that match up especially on rebound ace. Just a shame he choked 05 and had mono in 08 otherwise would've been 5 in a row.
Can't have everything
Djokovic is excellent on plexicushion but we never saw them prime for prime.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Agassi was a grandad too.
NatF
Bionic Poster
There was always at least one in form opponent in Federer's draw that's true.
I'd say Ferrero was better than Murray of 2011 and 2016 as well.
Regardless Federer didn't really have any zoning guys in his way like Stan or Nadal/Murray of 2012. He doesn't have an epic and truly me
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Yes, at the AO, Djokovic on average has had it harder.
Federer though on average has had it harder at Wimb and on some occasions tougher at the USO.
Wimb and the USO are where Fed's best slam wins occurred. Except 2004 AO in which Fed had one of his toughest slam draws.
NatF
Bionic Poster
I agree these legendary players were tremendously great during their respective era, but Federer/Nadal/Nole level of dominance and consistency is more impressive.
By the numbers:
Federer/Nadal/Nole
Total slams: 666
Total weeks #1: 43
Connors/Borg/McEnroe
Total slams: 26(they would have won more had they competed at the AO, unfortunately the AO wasn't as big/important as the other 3 slams during their time)
Total weeks #1: 547
Lendl/Edberg/Wilander/Becker
Total slams: 27
Total weeks #1: 374
metsman
Talk Tennis Guru
Roddick was pretty good in 09...Fed played a godly match that day.
Druss
Hall of Fame
Absolutely.
And yeah djokovic has the most AO so can't really argue but I'd still put my money on 04-07 Fed winning that match up especially on rebound ace. Just a shame he choked 05 and had mono in 08 otherwise would've been 5 in a row.
Can't have everything
Fed didn't choke the AO SF '05, it could have gone either way, that's how close it was. When Safin played at his peak, he was unstoppable. Pity that didn't occur too often.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Just admit that Djokovic faced tougher competition - I promise you'll feel better afterwards
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I love how Fed becomes a grandad when Djokovic beats him but you make no reference to Agassi's age, even though he was a year older when Roger beat him! You're dynamite
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Federer wouldn't have been the big favourite in 08.
metsman
Talk Tennis Guru
04 USO Agassi and 05 USO Agassi are about equal to 11 and 15 USO Federer...probably slightly better. Comparing age doesn't work because Fed had played much more tennis than Agassi at a similar age.I love how Fed becomes a grandad when Djokovic beats him but you make no reference to Agassi's age, even though he was a year older when Roger beat him! You're dynamite
I love how Fed becomes a grandad when Djokovic beats him but you make no reference to Agassi's age, even though he was a year older when Roger beat him! You're dynamite
My mistake, should've said "grandad Agassi" even though Old Agassi had a ground game - 2015 USO Final Fed didn't.
Of course fed would be favourite in 08 RG vs Djokovic. Post prime Fed owned Peak Djokovic in 2011 ending his win streak lol.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I think Agassi of 05 and Federer of 15 played at a similar high level so it's hard to say who was the better player at the time(although Roger certainly had a much better serve). And btw he played much better at RG in 2011 than he did in 08.
Druss
Hall of Fame
USO '05 Agassi = USO '15 Federer
VamosBamos987
Hall of Fame
Stupid Thread. Nadal obviously. During Fed's peak he faced a bunch of meh players for the most part. Djokos peak is mugs beyond mugs, tho. Literally trash.
metsman
Talk Tennis Guru
Agassi of 05 USO was better the first 3 sets. Both fed and Agassi mugged the last set, difference is that Djoker let Fed back in.
Druss
Hall of Fame
Refer back to post #53
Dude, read the OP!!! It says - Who had it the toughest out of the Big 3?
Sampras and Agassi were done, Safin, Hewitt...really. They are not comparable to Nadal or Djoka...PLEASE.!!!
duaneeo
Legend
05 USO Agassi took peak Federer to four sets. 15 USO Federer took peak Djokovic to 4 sets. 05 USO Agassi >> 15 USO Federer, more so considering Agassi had played 3 consecutive 5-setters heading into the final.
05 USO Agassi would be more difficult competition for Djokovic than 15 USO Federer.
05 USO Agassi would be more difficult competition for Djokovic than 15 USO Federer.
I did read the OP. And if i get you right, your reasoning is that Fed had it easiest because he is the oldest one and got some years with hardly any competition early career because Djoko and Rafa wasnt old enough?
If thats correct i very much disagree.
If you are consistent for many years you will face tougher and weaker competition. Rafa had 2010 (pre-Djoko, Delpo injured and Fed losing to everyone). You could argue Djoko had 2015/2016. The main difference is consistency; Fed played great 2004-2010 and for a year late 2011 to 2012, and he played decent 2014-2016. Thats a longevity Nadal and Djokovic probably wont be anywhere near.
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