Federer: ''I'm better than I was at 24''

Thriller said:
Ljubicic was a world No. 3 in 2006. Robredo and James Blake were top 5 players. 1 slam semi-final between the three of them. Wasn't it Ivanisevic at the time who said that you know that tennis has gone badly wrong when a player like Tommy Robredo can qualify for the end of year ATP Exhibition?
No way are the best of the post big three generations worse than the 'talent' from 2003 to 2007. That was the all-time low in my opinion. It is scary to think how many slams such an average player with a big serve (Roddick) would have won without Federer in his way. At least 6, and with the increased confidence from being a multi-slam winner maybe he would have been in the same bracket as Borg and Laver? Now that is a scary thought.
Federer fans complaining about weak eras really need to pipe down.
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Typical Nadal fan equating one bad year with an entire era. Not surprising for one bit.

And besides, guys like Tipsarevic and Fish qualified for the YEC and I'm not sure they are better players than Robredo. After what Ivanisevic said this year, I don't really put too much value into his opinion.

Since you opened this topic, Melzer reached a FO SF in 2010, the terrible Ljubicic beat Djokovic and Nadal to win 2010 IW, the average player Roddick beat Nadal to win 2010 Miami, Youzhny, a guy whose prime was in 2006 was Rafa's opponent in the semis of the 2010 USO.

Horrible talent pool in 2008-2013 as proven by these facts. Nadal fans need to pipe down about 2006 after this. 2010 easily beats it in terms of weakness.
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
Federer clearly has been aging for sometime and has been weakish on hard courts since 2018 (at least USO onwards).

But as for Nadal, I have hardly seen him play better in an RG final than last year. He was firing both DTL and CC on both wings. That kind of directional change was too much for Novak to deal with. Somewhat on the lines of what you say, it is possible to deal with the loss of some youthful speed and agility by sharpening your strokes and tactics. Full credit to the Big Three for putting in the hard yards and doing that. We have to credit them for their extraordinary, almost robot like motivation. There was a reason this didn't happen in the past and that was also because older players lost the motivation to keep going. Sampras could have chosen to play on after winning USO 2002. He didn't and chose to be Alain Prost. The Big Three clearly don't believe in retiring on a high. They will have to be thrown out of competition by the others and that's going to take a lot of doing.
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2008, 2012?
 
Thriller said:
Zverev and Goffin would literally knock Robredo into a cocked hat. And there has never been a worse Top 3 player than Ivan Ljubicic. I defy you to find one. A good serve but nothing special and absolutely nothing else in any way remarkable to offer. Go and YouTube "Ljubicic's best shots". That's right, literally no one has bothered, there is nothing worth compiling.
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Zverev became no.3 in 2017 with no slam QF's.

Yeah, Zverev and Goffin have never lost to worse players than Robredo. Typical Nadal fan knowledge of eras.
 
Thriller said:
Dustin Brown is famous by association. Fogninin is known for his eye-pleasing talent. What is Ljubicic known for? 1 GS semi-final and a whole lot of 1st, 2nd and 3rd round losses. Name one remarkable match or tournament victory, you can't.
I am willing to be convinced, accept my challenge and name a worse top 3 player from history than Ivan Ljubicic.
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IW 2010. :-D :-D Guess who he beat in that tournament? Now please tell me one great tournament victory from Goffin.
 
Thriller said:
Goffin has never been in the top 5, nor should he ever be. Robredo was a Top 5 player!!! That's right you scoured the planet looking for the best 5 tennis players you could find and in a 52 week period, Tommy Robredo was in the Top 5!! That should tell you, as it did Goran, that something had gone badly wrong with tennis.
It does happen, weak eras do exist imo. But don't complain about Berrettinis and Zverevs and then hail the era when Ljubicic was Top 3 and Robredo was Top 5. That inconsistency really will not do.
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Guy doesn't know the difference between year and era :-D:-D

And besides, 2015 Nadal was top 5 and he was worse than Ljubicic :-D
 
Thriller said:
Zverev and Goffin would literally knock Robredo into a cocked hat. And there has never been a worse Top 3 player than Ivan Ljubicic. I defy you to find one. A good serve but nothing special and absolutely nothing else in any way remarkable to offer. Go and YouTube "Ljubicic's best shots". That's right, literally no one has bothered, there is nothing worth compiling.
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Zverev, who got beaten in slams by the likes of Chung, Schwartzman and Coric would knock Robredo into a cocked hat. :-D
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
Federer clearly has been aging for sometime and has been weakish on hard courts since 2018 (at least USO onwards).

But as for Nadal, I have hardly seen him play better in an RG final than last year. He was firing both DTL and CC on both wings. That kind of directional change was too much for Novak to deal with. Somewhat on the lines of what you say, it is possible to deal with the loss of some youthful speed and agility by sharpening your strokes and tactics. Full credit to the Big Three for putting in the hard yards and doing that. We have to credit them for their extraordinary, almost robot like motivation. There was a reason this didn't happen in the past and that was also because older players lost the motivation to keep going. Sampras could have chosen to play on after winning USO 2002. He didn't and chose to be Alain Prost. The Big Three clearly don't believe in retiring on a high. They will have to be thrown out of competition by the others and that's going to take a lot of doing.
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Well, the Big 3 are more consistent than Sampras and Agassi were, but I think that in terms of level they haven't always blown Sampras and Agassi out of the water, except Nadal at RG.

Djokovic after AO 2019 has been extremely average for his standards and Nadal outside of clay hasn't exactly been rocking the world either. Don't think Sampras at 2001-2002 USO was any worse than Djokovic/Nadal at this tournament. Likewise Agassi at the HC slams wasn't any worse than Djokodal on HC except AO 2019.
 
Nadal_Django said:
2006 Robredo and Ljubicic would barely be a Top 30 players today. A fringe player like Coric, #24 at the moment, outside of Federer and Nadal on clay, would be mopping the 2006 field like there is no tomorrow. ;)
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just imagine what 2020 Coric would have done to 1997 Sampras, on slow surfaces with high bounce
 
Thriller said:
Dustin Brown is famous by association. Fogninin is known for his eye-pleasing talent. What is Ljubicic known for? 1 GS semi-final and a whole lot of 1st, 2nd and 3rd round losses. Name one remarkable match or tournament victory, you can't.
I am willing to be convinced, accept my challenge and name a worse top 3 player from history than Ivan Ljubicic.
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Davis Cup win in 2005 (beat Roddick, Agassi, Davydenko and Youzhny)
Indian Wells win in 2010 where he beat Djokovic, Nadal and Roddick.

madrid 2005 final w/ Rafa was an exciting match.
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
Federer clearly has been aging for sometime and has been weakish on hard courts since 2018 (at least USO onwards).

But as for Nadal, I have hardly seen him play better in an RG final than last year. He was firing both DTL and CC on both wings. That kind of directional change was too much for Novak to deal with. Somewhat on the lines of what you say, it is possible to deal with the loss of some youthful speed and agility by sharpening your strokes and tactics. Full credit to the Big Three for putting in the hard yards and doing that. We have to credit them for their extraordinary, almost robot like motivation. There was a reason this didn't happen in the past and that was also because older players lost the motivation to keep going. Sampras could have chosen to play on after winning USO 2002. He didn't and chose to be Alain Prost. The Big Three clearly don't believe in retiring on a high. They will have to be thrown out of competition by the others and that's going to take a lot of doing.
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Nadal was playing very Well but imo his on the run shots aren't as good anymore, he is still fast but he is sometimes lacking a step on balls into the wide forehand.

Against novak in the final he also had an exceptional day, if you watch the matches before against sinner and schwartzmann he was struggling a bit if stretched wide.

He did improve in other aspects but he obviously is not the athlete he was 10 years ago. Nobody really is in their mid to late 30s.

I think regarding their motivation it is also that they push each other. Fed might have retired as the goat in 2012 but he knew nadal and possibly even novak were coming for him and he wanted to keep his top spot and the other two were chasing him.

I think if only one of the big 3 had played (and probably won like 20 slams at age 30) he might have retired at 32 or so instead of going deep into their 30s
 
ForehandCross said:
I keep wanting matches/highlights past or present.

I know it is Subjective but in my eyes Federer on his younger years is much much more a complete player than later. Don't know why people keep believing otherwise.
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He certainly was more "complete" as a younger player but that was an intentional change. He adapted his game to the slower courts, larger rackets and yes- also Nadal by mostly ditching the slice (which Nadal eats up with his reverse FH) and taking the balls early consistently and it worked pretty well as fed had the best stretch of his career against nadal in his mid to late 30s.

Everyone got less "complete" as the conditions have changed. Federer went from an all courter to an offensive baseliner who occasionally attacks the net as he got older because of the conditions.
 
dominikk1985 said:
He certainly was more "complete" as a younger player but that was an intentional change. He adapted his game to the slower courts, larger rackets and yes- also Nadal by mostly ditching the slice (which Nadal eats up with his reverse FH) and taking the balls early consistently and it worked pretty well as fed had the best stretch of his career against nadal in his mid to late 30s.

Everyone got less "complete" as the conditions have changed. Federer went from an all courter to an offensive baseliner who occasionally attacks the net as he got older because of the conditions.
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Fed would have had a good stretch against 2017-2020 Nadal even without all those changes anyway if he had still been in his prime.
 
Nadal_Django said:
2006 Robredo and Ljubicic would barely be a Top 30 players today. A fringe player like Coric, #24 at the moment, outside of Federer and Nadal on clay, would be mopping the 2006 field like there is no tomorrow. ;)
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I think it is clear, to most tennis experts that the sport has evolved and reached new heights. Servebots like Roddick in would be lucky to reach the top 10 in today's era of elite baseliners.
 
mike danny said:
Well, the Big 3 are more consistent than Sampras and Agassi were, but I think that in terms of level they haven't always blown Sampras and Agassi out of the water, except Nadal at RG.

Djokovic after AO 2019 has been extremely average for his standards and Nadal outside of clay hasn't exactly been rocking the world either. Don't think Sampras at 2001-2002 USO was any worse than Djokovic/Nadal at this tournament. Likewise Agassi at the HC slams wasn't any worse than Djokodal on HC except AO 2019.
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Maybe but they are both older than Sampras was of his last USO. And as you say, on clay, Nadal is still rocking it. Agassi was great in his 30s but only intermittently so.
 
dominikk1985 said:
Nadal was playing very Well but imo his on the run shots aren't as good anymore, he is still fast but he is sometimes lacking a step on balls into the wide forehand.

Against novak in the final he also had an exceptional day, if you watch the matches before against sinner and schwartzmann he was struggling a bit if stretched wide.

He did improve in other aspects but he obviously is not the athlete he was 10 years ago. Nobody really is in their mid to late 30s.

I think regarding their motivation it is also that they push each other. Fed might have retired as the goat in 2012 but he knew nadal and possibly even novak were coming for him and he wanted to keep his top spot and the other two were chasing him.

I think if only one of the big 3 had played (and probably won like 20 slams at age 30) he might have retired at 32 or so instead of going deep into their 30s
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Well, but we can't realistically expect that. And it's clear that these little things are not enough to offset the improvement in serve and backhand in particular and general tactical smarts of his late surge.
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
Maybe but they are both older than Sampras was of his last USO. And as you say, on clay, Nadal is still rocking it. Agassi was great in his 30s but only intermittently so.
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Fair enough.

But I don't think Sampras of the 2002 USO was worse than Nadal at 2017 USO, if we're comparing players at the same ages.

And this may sound controversial, but I don't think 2003 AO Agassi was worse than 2020 AO Djokovic.
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
Well, but we can't realistically expect that. And it's clear that these little things are not enough to offset the improvement in serve and backhand in particular and general tactical smarts of his late surge.
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We still can't dismiss the fact that 2020 Djokovic is a pale shadow of what he was on clay in his prime.
 
Ok so a whole lot of yadda yadda and yet still no one can name a more unimpressive Top 3 player in all tennis history than Ivan Ljubicic. Go on, I dare you!
 
mike danny said:
Fair enough.

But I don't think Sampras of the 2002 USO was worse than Nadal at 2017 USO, if we're comparing players at the same ages.

And this may sound controversial, but I don't think 2003 AO Agassi was worse than 2020 AO Djokovic.
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At USO, yes. But Nadal is not the five time champion there, Sampras is. At RG, Nadal was as good as ever at that point. Just his longevity on clay of all surfaces defies logic. Sure, it gives him more time but how does he still have the stamina for it is the question.
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
At USO, yes. But Nadal is not the five time champion there, Sampras is. At RG, Nadal was as good as ever at that point. Just his longevity on clay of all surfaces defies logic. Sure, it gives him more time but how does he still have the stamina for it is the question.
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Well, in fairness, Nadal wins on clay these days by being more aggressive.

There still isn't anyone capable of handling his FH on clay today and the opponents on clay are even weaker than before with nobody capable of even giving Nadal a match. So Nadal's stamina was never tested on this surface because he has had no opponent to actually test it.
 
mike danny said:
Well, in fairness, Nadal wins on clay these days by being more aggressive.

There still isn't anyone capable of handling his FH on clay today and the opponents on clay are even weaker than before with nobody capable of even giving Nadal a match. So Nadal's stamina was never tested on this surface because he has had no opponent to actually test it.
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Which is sort of what I said. They just worked around their physical limitations by improving their shotmaking. To be fair, I wouldn't compare with the older champions because the Big Three virtually command armies to help them prepare. But that's also the reason using the past to measure how young uns ought to fare against the Big Three doesn't work. It's just much harder now than it used to be.
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
Which is sort of what I said. They just worked around their physical limitations by improving their shotmaking. To be fair, I wouldn't compare with the older champions because the Big Three virtually command armies to help them prepare. But that's also the reason using the past to measure how young uns ought to fare against the Big Three doesn't work. It's just much harder now than it used to be.
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That is still extremely debatable.

Tsitsipas's horrible performance at 2019 AO should not be given a pass and neither should Zverev's 2019 RG performance.

But that's besides the point. The Next Gen aren't even making it to the Big 3 often enough to give them a pass anyway.
 
RF-18 said:
“I think I'm a better player now than when I was at 24 because I've practised for another 10 years and I've got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don't have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it's ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I've had to adapt to a new generation of players again.”

Found this on the ATP world tour site. Don't know if it has been posted but what do you guys think of his comments? His former coach Annacone has said it too, and also his rival Djokovic agrees.
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Do you think he played his best in the Wimbeldon 15 final and USO 15 finals?
 
AceSalvo said:
Fedr with a broken knee reached the QF at Wimb. So definitely he is better than ever at 40.
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Some people might not agree with me but i feel we have not seen the last of Federer. Fact is he needs to get more match play to release his shots after being away for so long.
 
I just don't agree with Federer. He is still a great player and still was in 2014 and 15. However a 24 year old Federer would sweep Djokovic in Wimbledon any day.
 
RF-18 said:
“I think I'm a better player now than when I was at 24 because I've practised for another 10 years and I've got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don't have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it's ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I've had to adapt to a new generation of players again.”

Found this on the ATP world tour site. Don't know if it has been posted but what do you guys think of his comments? His former coach Annacone has said it too, and also his rival Djokovic agrees.
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Yeah, but he's just as stupid as ever.
 
RF-18 said:
“I think I'm a better player now than when I was at 24 because I've practised for another 10 years and I've got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don't have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it's ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I've had to adapt to a new generation of players again.”

Found this on the ATP world tour site. Don't know if it has been posted but what do you guys think of his comments? His former coach Annacone has said it too, and also his rival Djokovic agrees.
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Do you think 2015 Murray was also playing the best tennis of his career?
 
More experienced. Better in that sense.

Being more experienced can be a negative in other ways. Less spontaneity, less of going all out for something. And aging usually means less mobility. Watch Nadal and Federer around 2005-2009 time compared to more recent years and the difference is stark. Nadal used to run down everything, tended to play high percentages even more and trusted his mobility would grind any opponent down. Older Nadal has to be more aggressive in his shot making, less eager in running down everything, and save his mobility more for when he really needs it. I think this is a big reason why Federer won all but 1 match against Nadal 2017-2019. Against the field, the new approach has helped an older Nadal, but it altered the dynamics of how he used to control the rivalry with Federer.
 
Fed really improved his serve when getting older it became one of the best weapons on tour he also improved his BH which and also had the extra experience. These compromised for his declining pace, movement and FH wip which kept him at the top but overall 34 year Fed was still world class he wasn’t as good as 24 year Fed
 
Mustard said:
More experienced. Better in that sense.

Being more experienced can be a negative in other ways. Less spontaneity, less of going all out for something. And aging usually means less mobility. Watch Nadal and Federer around 2005-2009 time compared to more recent years and the difference is stark. Nadal used to run down everything, tended to play high percentages even more and trusted his mobility would grind any opponent down. Older Nadal has to be more aggressive in his shot making, less eager in running down everything, and save his mobility more for when he really needs it. I think this is a big reason why Federer won all but 1 match against Nadal 2017-2019. Against the field, the new approach has helped an older Nadal, but it altered the dynamics of how he used to control the rivalry with Federer.
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Nadal doesn't need to worry about Fed anymore. When in good form he is the worst match up for any player non named Djokovic.
 
And now Fed has 7 more years of evolution and experience under his belt, better than he ever was, and he's barely hanging on for dear life in the top 20.

Goes to show you how quickly the tour evolves, and how much of a total fraud his "dominance" ever was.
 
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