Federer in the 00s or Djokovic in the 10s - Who was the more dominant player?

Who had the greater decade?

  • Federer

    Votes: 69 61.1%
  • Djokovic

    Votes: 44 38.9%

  • Total voters
    113

abmk

Bionic Poster
Tell me, what physical attributes did Djokovic lose in AO 2016?

Now tell me what changed the match up in 2017 between Federer and Nadal? It was his neo backhand and Nadal's loss of footspeed. Nadal losing his footspeed is one of the biggest things that existed in 2017. Now, if someone was around like a Nadal 2005 who had that footspeed to cover that court and expose Nadal's biggest weakness, we don't know how things would have been. Nadal in 2017 was able to hide his biggest weakness on clay, but it was getting exposed on hard, if a player came around to do it on clay, who know what could have happened.

Yes, Djokovic hit 100 UE, did Federer put in bad performances at AO 2006 also, when he was at his peakiest? Djokovic when he went up against his real rivals in AO 2016, which were Federer and Murray became the actual Djokovic with a snap of his finger.

1. I'll repeat : how does that change that RG 2017 and clay season 17 nadal clearly better than 16 RG and clay season djokovic respectively ? It doesn't.

2. how does facing a laden footed fed for 2 sets (fed did wake up after that though) and meh Murray compare to facing AO 08 djokovic? It doesn't.
again, I'll ask : how much would he able to vs a younger AO 2008 djoko? would you be sure of a win for AO 16 djoko?

as far as your question goes, djokovic didn't have the intensity, consistency of groundstrokes hitting and mental strength that he had in 11 for example. minor dip in movement also. minor only. only there was no one except Wawa to expose in Bo5** consistently in 14-16 (or 15-16). serve/net game/slice improved, but not enough to compensate vs 11 AO on HC for example or 13 AO. and inconsistency also matters, even more so when it is across 2 matches including a QF. vs AO 08 djoko would also be who knows just like what you are talking about for nadal.


yes, nadal had more physical dip, but he had a higher ceiling to dip from on clay.

** fed could do so in Bo3, but not Bo5.

federer was nowhere mediocre in any match in AO 06, even if up and down. Djoko was plain bad vs Simon and mediocre vs Nishi.
 
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Hitman

Bionic Poster
1. I'll repeat : how does that change that RG 2017 and clay season 17 nadal clearly better than 16 RG and clay season djokovic respectively ? It doesn't.

2. how does facing a laden footed fed for 2 sets (fed did wake up after that though) and meh Murray compare to facing AO 08 djokovic? It doesn't.
again, I'll ask : how much would he able to vs a younger AO 2008 djoko? would you be sure of a win for AO 16 djoko?

as far as your question goes, djokovic didn't have the intensity, consistency of groundstrokes hitting and mental strength that he had in 11 for example. minor dip in movement also. minor only. only there was no one except Wawa to expose in Bo5 consistently in 14-16 (or 15-16). serve/net game/slice improved, but not enough to compensate vs 11 AO on HC for example or 13 AO. and inconsistency also matters.

yes, nadal had more physical dip, but he had a higher ceiling to dip from on clay.

1 - 2016 clay season isn't only about Nadal v Djokovic, 2016 field was deeper. You think it is meant to be a one man show? LOL

2 - You seriously think Djokovic wasn't in absolute God Mode in AO 2016 semi on? OK, we really have nothing more to say on that. Djokovic in January 2016 put together some of the most peak level tennis ever.

Have to disagree with on your last part, Djokovic had God mode moments in AO 2016.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
1 - 2016 clay season isn't only about Nadal v Djokovic, 2016 field was deeper. You think it is meant to be a one man show? LOL

2 - You seriously think Djokovic wasn't in absolute God Mode in AO 2016 semi on? OK, we really have nothing more to say on that. Djokovic in January 2016 put together some of the most peak level tennis ever.

Have to disagree with on your last part, Djokovic had God mode moments in AO 2016.
Lol. Yeah, the clay GOAT Murray being the second best player says it all. The one who needed 5 sets to beat old Stepanek and Bourgue (man, when will I finally remember the name of this beast without having to look it up?), and then totally collapsed in RG final after just 1 set.

In 2017 at least Thiem reached his prime on clay. He didn't bring it in RG semifinal, but at least gave a fight at some other tournaments.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
1 - 2016 clay season isn't only about Nadal v Djokovic, 2016 field was deeper. You think it is meant to be a one man show? LOL

yes, 2016 clay field was a little deeper than 2017 clay field, but nothing more. That has nothing to do with Vesely loss in Monte Carlo, does it?
doesn't change the levels part from djoko/nadal in those years. nadal in 2017 clay season and RG level wise > djokovic in 16 for those by a clear distance.

2 - You seriously think Djokovic wasn't in absolute God Mode in AO 2016 semi on? OK, we really have nothing more to say on that. Djokovic in January 2016 put together some of the most peak level tennis ever.

Have to disagree with on your last part, Djokovic had God mode moments in AO 2016.
he was in God mode for 2 sets in that semi vs fed.
but one thing to do that vs 16 fed not fully waken up (or 16 Mehdal in Doha) and different vs 08 AO djokovic no?

let say he were to replicate that level vs AO 08 djoko for the same time, it would be 1 set, not 2. Just saying. would like lose set 2 given he did dip after those first 2 sets. its 1 all. are you saying you would be sure AO 16 djoko would prevail?
 
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Hitman

Bionic Poster
Lol. Yeah, the clay GOAT Murray being the second best player says it all. The one who needed 5 sets to beat old Stepanek and Bourgue (man, when will I finally remember the name of this beast without having to look it up?), and then totally collapsed in RG final after just 1 set.

In 2017 at least Thiem reached his prime on clay. He didn't bring it in RG semifinal, but at least gave a fight at some other tournaments.

Thiem reached his prime on clay and still put on a stinker in the semi. Thiem was also crushed by a weak Djokovic in Rome.

Wawrinka was also around in 2016, and in much better shape than the 2017 version who was about to go for surgery. And don't we keep hearing that Nadal was starting to show some life?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Thiem reached his prime on clay and still put on a stinker in the semi. Thiem was also crushed by a weak Djokovic in Rome.

Wawrinka was also around in 2016, and in much better shape than the 2017 version who was about to go for surgery. And don't we keep hearing that Nadal was starting to show some life?

Wawa played better in RG 17 semi than in RG 16 semi. not lost a set before the semi in RG 2017. Overall better in RG 17 than in RG 16.
Djokovic played well vs Thiem in Rome before dipping inexplicably vs Zverev in the final. Thiem got his revenge back at RG including a bagel anyway.

16 clay field was a little deeper, but nothing more.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Thiem reached his prime on clay and still put on a stinker in the semi. Thiem was also crushed by a weak Djokovic in Rome.

Wawrinka was also around in 2016, and in much better shape than the 2017 version who was about to go for surgery. And don't we keep hearing that Nadal was starting to show some life?
When exactly was Wawrinka around in 2016? Got destroyed by a weak Nadal in Monte Carlo, played a terrible RG semifinal against Murray. But yeah, sure it's better than actually beating Murray in RG 2017.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
yes, 2016 clay field was a little deeper than 2017 clay field, but nothing more. That has nothing to do with Vesely loss in Monte Carlo, does it?
doesn't change the levels part from djoko/nadal in those years. nadal in 2017 clay season and RG level wise > djokovic in 16 for those by a clear distance.


he was in God mode for 2 sets in that semi vs fed.
but one thing to do that vs 16 fed not fully waken up (or 16 Mehdal in Doha) and different vs 08 AO djokovic no?

let say he were to replicate that level vs AO 08 djoko for the same time, it would be 1 set, not 2. Just saying. would like lose set 2 given he did dip after those first 2 sets. its 1 all. are you saying you would be sure AO 16 djoko would prevail?

It has nothing to do with that loss, Djokovic was due a loss after winning so much up to that point. You keep making it about the winner of each RG, I told you that the overall depth and level in 2016 was not equal to 2017, something you even see, even if it is a little nod to it. I mean Federer's level on grass in 2017 was also higher than everyone else in 2016, doesn't mean overall it is the same thing, and 2017 and 2016 should be counted as one...which is the actual point of my discussion with you.

Djokovic 2016 in God mode form can take it to AO 2008 form quite well. He had everything that his 2008 version had, including a better serve.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Wawa played better in RG 17 semi than in RG 16 semi. not lost a set before the semi in RG 2017. Overall better in RG 17 than in RG 16.
Djokovic played well vs Thiem in Rome before dipping inexplicably vs Zverev in the final. Thiem got his revenge back at RG including a bagel anyway.

16 clay field was a little deeper, but nothing more.

Wawrinka got far because it was overall weak. Lets not forget he played two more matches after Wimbledon and couldn't continue because his knee was about to split in two. A better Murray would have beaten him again the semis, but Murray himself was only going down and down all season long.

Thiem got his revenge on Djokovic, yes.

Clay was deeper, and overall the the field was deeper that year, which is my original point.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Wawa played better in RG 17 semi than in RG 16 semi. not lost a set before the semi in RG 2017. Overall better in RG 17 than in RG 16.
Djokovic played well vs Thiem in Rome before dipping inexplicably vs Zverev in the final. Thiem got his revenge back at RG including a bagel anyway.

16 clay field was a little deeper, but nothing more.
2017 Nadal alone was much better than anyone in the 2016 field.

And in any case, Djokovic's RG 2016 draw was one of the weakest, actually comparable to his 2023 draw. Murray and Alcaraz collapses were equally bad.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
When exactly was Wawrinka around in 2016? Got destroyed by a weak Nadal in Monte Carlo, played a terrible RG semifinal against Murray. But yeah, sure it's better than actually beating Murray in RG 2017.

Wawrinka and Murray were both dead men walking on the clay in 2017, both were finished.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
It has nothing to do with that loss, Djokovic was due a loss after winning so much up to that point. You keep making it about the winner of each RG, I told you that the overall depth and level in 2016 was not equal to 2017, something you even see, even if it is a little nod to it. I mean Federer's level on grass in 2017 was also higher than everyone else in 2016, doesn't mean overall it is the same thing, and 2017 and 2016 should be counted as one...which is the actual point of my discussion with you.
no.
because I said spring HC 17 > spring HC 16
and post-USO-pre YEC 17 > same in 16

opposite for YEC and clay season in 16

Djokovic 2016 in God mode form can take it to AO 2008 form quite well. He had everything that his 2008 version had, including a better serve.

not the consistency of hitting and not the consistency in the slam. not that sort of form vs a good opponent (he had 2 of them in 2008 - fed and tsonga)
AO 2016 djokovic can win of course, but are you sure he would?
which is somewhat similar to RG 2017 nadal vs RG 2005 nadal
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
2017 Nadal alone was much better than anyone in the 2016 field.

And in any case, Djokovic's RG 2016 draw was one of the weakest, actually comparable to his 2023 draw. Murray and Alcaraz collapses were equally bad.

One man doesn't make a field though.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Wawrinka got far because it was overall weak. Lets not forget he played two more matches after Wimbledon and couldn't continue because his knee was about to split in two. A better Murray would have beaten him again the semis, but Murray himself was only going down and down all season long.

Thiem got his revenge on Djokovic, yes.

Clay was deeper, and overall the the field was deeper that year, which is my original point.
How what happened after the clay season is relevant? Does Nadal playing just 4 more matches after the clay season in 2012 changes the fact that it was one of his strongest clay seasons?

No version of Wawrinka was going to even make it close against 2017 final Nadal, just not happening.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Wawrinka got far because it was overall weak. Lets not forget he played two more matches after Wimbledon and couldn't continue because his knee was about to split in two. A better Murray would have beaten him again the semis, but Murray himself was only going down and down all season long.
Wawa in 16 went 5 vs Rosol and lost a set to Tricki as well - not exactly world beaters on clay.
He was better in 17 RG, clear cut period.

He was better in the 17 semi than in 16 semi also.
disagree on Murray part.
Clay was deeper, and overall the the field was deeper that year, which is my original point.
we disagree on the overall part. see post before this.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
no.
because I said spring HC 17 > spring HC 16
and post-USO-pre YEC 17 > same in 16

opposite for YEC and clay season in 16



not the consistency of hitting and not the consistency in the slam.
AO 2016 djokovic can win of course, but are you sure he would?
which is somewhat similar to RG 2017 nadal vs RG 2005 nadal

No, spring 2016 was higher.

I don't say by sure to anything, the same way I am asking the question about what would have happened if Nadal 2017 with his declined foot speed faced a younger Nadal with the footspeed of 2005? Difference between Nadal 2017 and Djokovic 2016 is that Nadal 2017 has declined physical attributes, Djokovic 2016 is not decline in anyway.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
How what happened after the clay season relevant? Does Nadal playing just 4 more matches after the clay season in 2012 changes the fact that it was one of his strongest clay seasons?

No version of Wawrinka was going to even make it close against 2017 final Nadal, just not happening.

When did I say a healthy Wawrinka was winning the match against Nadal at RG 2017.

You think stating the obvious about Wawrinka being injured is somehow taking away from Nadal's win? LOL Really?

Nadal won the match, and rightfully so, but he did beat an injured Wawrinka, both things can be factual and right at the same time.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Wawa in 16 went 5 vs Rosol and lost a set to Tricki as well - not exactly world beaters on clay.
He was better in 17 RG, clear cut period.

He was better in the 17 semi than in 16 semi also.
disagree on Murray part.

we disagree on the overall part. see post before this.

Yeah we have to disagree, since again it your eye test against mine on this.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
No, spring 2016 was higher.

nope.
IW 17 fed > IW 16 djoko (though not by much)
fed faced 17 nadal+wawa. djoko faced 16 nadal and tsonga. (murray ousted by delbonis,fed out) fed's was less easier (though not by much)

Miami 17 fed < Miami 16 djoko
but fed faced berdych, kyrgios and nadal.
kyrgios also beat Z in a good match IIRC.

djokovic faced no one serious playing well (murray ousted by dimi, nadal out in middle, fed out).toughest vs goffin. berdych meh compared to Miami 17)

spring HC goes to 17 clearly

I don't say by sure to anything, the same way I am asking the question about what would have happened if Nadal 2017 with his declined foot speed faced a younger Nadal with the footspeed of 2005? Difference between Nadal 2017 and Djokovic 2016 is that Nadal 2017 has declined physical attributes, Djokovic 2016 is not decline in anyway.

I already mentioned couple of areas of decline, even if lesser than nadal. but nadal had a higher level on clay before decline. So ..
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
When did I say a healthy Wawrinka was winning the match against Nadal at RG 2017.

You think stating the obvious about Wawrinka being injured is somehow taking away from Nadal's win? LOL Really?

Nadal won the match, and rightfully so, but he did beat an injured Wawrinka, both things can be factual and right at the same time.
I didn't see how he was injured in this match. Are you basing this on him being injured after Wimbledon? (not even after RG)
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
nope.
IW 17 fed > IW 6 djoko
fed faced nadal+wawa. djoko faced a little worse nadal and tsonga. (murray ousted by delbonis,fed out)

Miami 17 fed < Miami 16 djoko
but fed faced berdych, kyrgios and nadal.
kyrgios also beat Z in a good match IIRC.

djokovic faced no one serious playing well (murray ousted by dimi, nadal out in middle, fed out).toughest vs goffin. berdych meh compared to Miami 17)

spring HC goes to 17 clearly



I already mentioned couple of areas of decline, even if lesser than nadal. but nadal had a higher level on clay before decline. So ..

IW 17 Fed doesn't beat IW 16 Djokovic, so the top guy is already weaker.

Again, I disagree with you, spring 2016 > spring 2017. One is a player still at his peak the other is about six years past it.

Nadal's higher level will get exposed when his movement gets exposed by a younger 2005 version. Leaving it at that.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I didn't see how he was injured in this match. Are you basing this on him being injured after Wimbledon? (not even after RG)

Yeah, I don't think Wawa looked injured in any way in RG 17 final.

Issues came up after that. though semi may have contributed to it.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
3 sets lost before SF vs not world beaters on clay vs 0 sets vs not world beaters on clay is not just eye test.

That was mainly impacted by the much damper conditions in 2016. 2017 was nowhere near as damp allowing Stan to swing more freely. It was more about how much he was restricted to play, even Nadal struggles in damp conditions in general relative to his level when it is not. So, we have disagree again on this.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
I didn't see how he was injured in this match. Are you basing this on him being injured after Wimbledon? (not even after RG)

I take it then you didn't see Nadal was injured at the start of AO 2014 final then either, since he was moving around fine....

Wawrinka mentioned when he went to get surgery that his knee had been causing him massive pain for months, and that after Wimbledon second round defeat, he knew he had no choice but to get surgery.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
IW 17 Fed doesn't beat IW 16 Djokovic, so the top guy is already weaker.

Again, I disagree with you, spring 2016 > spring 2017. One is a player still at his peak the other is about six years past it.

fed was actually better.
djoko lost a set in first match, struggled a little vs tsonga, 1st set vs nadal..
got a freebie with injured Raonic in final.

and fed IW 17 could beat 16 IW djokovic and vice versa.
but as it actually happened, fed was better.

And Bo3 reduces the difference in this case.

Nadal's higher level will get exposed when his movement gets exposed by a younger 2005 version. Leaving it at that.

similarly djoko of AO 16 will get exposed when facing actual good competition. Leaving it at that.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
That was mainly impacted by the much damper conditions in 2016. 2017 was nowhere near as damp allowing Stan to swing more freely. It was more about how much he was restricted to play, even Nadal struggles in damp conditions in general relative to his level when it is not. So, we have disagree again on this.

Lets assume that's true. Still holds that as it happened, Wawa's level in RG 17 > his level in RG 16.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
fed was actually better.
djoko lost a set in first match, struggled a little vs tsonga, 1st set vs nadal..
got a freebie with injured Raonic in final.

and fed IW 17 could beat 16 IW djokovic and vice versa.
but as it actually happened, fed was better.

And Bo3 reduces the difference in this case.



similarly djoko of AO 16 will get exposed when facing actual good competition. Leaving it at that.

Federer still loses to Djokovic, he was good only against Nadal at IW imo.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Lets assume that's true. Still holds that as it happened, Wawa's level in RG 17 > his level in RG 16.

I already stated that the conditions played a part. Stan likes it much hotter and drier, that doesn't mean he didn't have the level.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I already stated that the conditions played a part. Stan likes it much hotter and drier, that doesn't mean he didn't have the level.

ok, all that is fine. But as far as opposition goes, Stan of RG 17 was actually more dangerous (in RG 17 conditions) than Stan of RG 16 (in RG 16 conditions). Isn't that the 1st and most important factor while comparing.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
ok, all that is fine. But as far as opposition goes, Stan of RG 17 was actually more dangerous (in RG 17 conditions) than Stan of RG 16 (in RG 16 conditions). Isn't that the 1st and most important factor while comparing.

I never said Stan isn't more dangerous in sunny conditions, in fact that is my point, however that doesn't mean his level was that much more different....he was simply "allowed" to play his game more freely.
 

Phenomenal

Hall of Fame
Good discussion i read all, let me dive in one point i disagree with Hitman. Firstly Nadal was 2 years off which are 2015 and 2016. He was already losing early at Wimbledon so 2014 Wimbledon was not that bad. He was defending champion so he would be contender at USO apart from finalist at AO and winner of RG that season. In this 2 years he would be contender at 2016 RG no matter what. So he missed we don't know. So Nadal was bad what 2 year at RG in one which he didn't played.

The point i disagree Murray cannot be called, given same importance as Big3. He should be mentioned seperately imo as he is not in their caliber. When you say they were meant to be in their prime.
 

Phenomenal

Hall of Fame
Like you said Djokovic was not in his best in the half of 2016. Murray only played one RG F obviously it was the year were Nadal was out or without Federer etc. Nadal's 2017 resurgence can be seen similiar to Djokovic's 2018 or 2019. Obviously Fedal was not as good as Djokovic in AO in 2017.

Idk why don't you accept Nadal on clay season, RG in 2017 was better than Djokovic's 2016. Just because Djokovic was in his prime? If we make a poll only for Djokovic fans i think Nadal's 2017 will be winner IMO. Nadal was in his prime many years but he was not in Djokovic's 2019 AO level even had he won 2014 AO i would say same he was worse. Idk now even 2012 would win against 2019 Djokovic AO. Historically Nadal is much better you should take this into account when you compare 2 of them at RG. Nadal has 2 off year since 2005 and one he didn't played. Lastly all the clay season stats supports Nadal against Djokovic's 2016. Thiem is better clay courter than Murray too not sure in 2017 against 2016 but general yes.
 
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Phenomenal

Hall of Fame
Also in this prime talk idk how accurate to talk primes. Was Nadal in his prime in 2005? or was he only in his prime on clay?
Was Nadal close to his prime in 2017 or 2005?
 

Hood_Man

G.O.A.T.
Federer in the 2000s, for the basic reason that you can actually remember the names of his rivals outside of Nadal and Djokovic.

Djokovic was phenomenal in the 2010s but it's telling that when he fell to pieces in 2017, instead of seeing a surge in next gen success we instead just saw the clock reset and enjoyed another Fedal run for 18 months.
 

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
You really think Nadal would win 4 big HC tournaments in a year with a strong Djokovic, Federer, and Murray? Heck, with a strong Djokovic by himself?

2013 was a strong year. Federer was awful (for his standards) but Murray, Djokovic and Wawrinka were strong.

- Wawrinka came closer to beating Djokovic at the AO than even Murray and Nadal the previous year, he pushed him to 5 in BOTH HC slams. And although he lost in straights both HC matches vs Nadal, 3 of those 4 sets were tie-breaks.

- Murray won Wimbledon and the final at the AO.

- Djokovic won the AO, made final at Wimbledon, USO and basically RG as well. Won the YEC and ended Nadal's reign in Montecarlo.

- Del Potro also had a strong year too, getting several big wins and almost winning his first M1000.

You also had Ferrer having maybe the best year in his career, Berdych and Tsonga playing great as well. Gasquet having a strong season, etc.

Nadal deserved those titles and the YE1, he had a terrific year despite missing the AO and starting slowly on clay with defeats to Zeballos and struggling with Alund.
 

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
And like I said, if you want to play this game of pick and choose, then I will also. No one was beating Djokovic at AO 2023, he showed insane level and practically killed everyone that stood before him. Not to mention many other slams. Doesn't matter whether you agree or not, because as it is just opinions being discussed here, I'll take those also.

Djokovic's level at AO 2023 gets VERY underrated. Lost only one set and in a tie-break. His performance against De Minaur was insane, but he looked really good in basically every match once he solved his physical issue.


The funny thing is, I am actually going by the notion that once everyone left their primes, it was actually Federer who had the most slams, and Djokovic had the least of the three. 17-14-12.... but of course you want to prop up as many Federer wins as possible, while then saying most of Djokovic's wins were inflated, with the rare exception.

I would say 16-14-12. If Wimbledon 2012 counts as prime for Federer then Wimbledon 2018, USO 2018 and AO 2019 can count for Djokovic. Or RG and USO 2017 for Nadal. RG 2017 was one of the best versions of Nadal at RG, I don't think anyone was beating him there prime or no prime.
 

canta_Brian

Hall of Fame
It's about who owned their decade the best, that the ATP declared them the best for. That is how ATP sees it, tough, if you think it is not fair.
That’s entirely arbitrary

If Christ had been born three years later Federer’s decade would have started when he was 23
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
My friend, in the real world, people don't give a crap about all that stuff. Only the hardcore fans do, most lap up whatever is fed by the media and the sport in general. You and I make up a very very small community of tennis fans who break it down the way we do. The real world does not have the time nor do they care in the same way. And over time, people would care even less about all that, and as new people join the sport, they will see it for what it is, the gold standard.

Djokovic was in his prime ALL THE WAY FROM Jan to June. Anyone can catch fire for one tournament, that is the difference between Prime tennis and out of prime. Even Federer played fantastic in IW and Miami in 2017, but we know that was not his prime. You cannot compare that to the 18 month consistency that Djokovic brought.

You know full well that Djokovic's level was exactly the same from Paris 2014 to RG 2016, that 18 month period is legendary for a reason. You cannot compare it to a one off tournament performance, when he was doing it practically every freaking week.

You should not be adding in 2016 into the same era, is what I am saying. Your statement was about saying from 2016 onwards....that it where I disagree with you, as you straight out took what was a prime year for Djokovic and Murray and grouped it with a year where two guys in their 30s who had not won slams in 3 and 5 years respectively, as the same thing. Sorry, they are not.

You want to say Inflation era and weak achievements, then start from 2017 and count everything after that. Trying to take away from what Djokovic did in 2016, when he was in his prime and was meant to be winning, is something i cannot ever agree with. Weaker than previous years? OK, if you want. But no chance it should be grouped with 2017 and onwards.
I would lump first half of 2016 in with 2015. A decent but no chance of winning Federer at AO, Murray being an auto win over BO5. I would class first half of 2017 as ok too, Fedal, Murray, Wawrinka all playing a decent level until the latter two collapsed.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
I would only really class 2021-2023 as inflation years. 2016-2020 weren’t the strongest but at least big 3 brought some really high levels and more often than not had to go through each other.

Slams like 21-23 AO, 23 USO, 23 RG, 21/22 W are a clear tier below those middling weak slams imo.
 

Phenomenal

Hall of Fame
I would only really class 2021-2023 as inflation years. 2016-2020 weren’t the strongest but at least big 3 brought some really high levels and more often than not had to go through each other.

Slams like 21-23 AO, 23 USO, 23 RG, 21/22 W are a clear tier below those middling weak slams imo.
Same. 2019 was by far the strongest of 2016-2020. 2020 was not bad just cut short.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I would lump first half of 2016 in with 2015. A decent but no chance of winning Federer at AO, Murray being an auto win over BO5. I would class first half of 2017 as ok too, Fedal, Murray, Wawrinka all playing a decent level until the latter two collapsed.

exactly, both 2016 and 2017 are similar overall. decent enough first halves, but decline in 2nd half.
for the whole years though, both are worse than any year from 2000-2015 (with exception of 02)
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
It's about who owned their decade the best, that the ATP declared them the best for. That is how ATP sees it, tough, if you think it is not fair.

It doesn't matter to me how the ATP declared, but everyone is free express his/her opinion about this comparison is deceiving. Context is part of this discussion to keep forum alive, right? Comparing Federer starting at 19 to a player starting at 23.5 years old is selling Federer short, simple as that.
 
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