My thought exactly. He wins more in straight sets and hand out many bagels with minimal efforts when compare to other ATG.
Djokovic wins a lot but was often taken to the distance, and many times escape from facing match points
Federer in the 00s or Djokovic in the 10s - Who was the more dominant player?
- Thread starter Hitman
- Start date
Djokovic wins a lot but was often taken to the distance, and many times escape from facing match points
mike danny
Bionic Poster
But I didn't compare it to Fed's 2000-2003, only spoke in absolute terms.
duaneeo
Legend
Oh yes you can if he's facing a strong Federer and Djokovic. And a strong Murray added to the mix? Come on now. What four big HC tournaments would Nadal win, lol. He'd be lucky to snare one. That he won 4 in 2013 says it all.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
How many big HC Masters titles did Federer win facing a strong anyone during his peak?
Can't wait for the Gonzalez, Roddick, Hewitt reply
Federer was crap in 2013, but Djok was strong > 20 top 10 wins for the season is better than Fed ever achieved.
IW13 - In form Del Potro in the final. Gulbis also played well, Berdych was decent.
IW04 - 33 year old Agassi the only opponent that played well
IW05 - Ljubicic was the only decent opponent
IW06 - Battled with freaking Rochus other than that... another cake walk
Nadal's 2013 run was the most impressive
Canada13 - Beat #1 Djokovic in the SF
Canada04 - Lost a set to freaking Lucky Loser in the SEMI FINAL (yeah strong event that one LOL)
Canada06 - Won the title but lost a set to Gasquet, Gonzo, Malisse and Tursunov
Nadal's 2013 run was the most impressive
Cinci13 - Beat a decent Grigor, decent Federer and solid Berdych. Isner was serve botting to the max
Cinci05 - Lost a set to WC Ginepri in the SEMI FINAL (yeah strong event that one LOL). Blake and Kiefer were solid.
Cinci07 - Almost lost to 20th ranked Hewitt
Again, edge to Nadal's 2013 run
So CLEARLY none of Fed's PEAK years where he won at those Masters events were the draws or comp any tougher or impressive form wise.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Federer did not even face 20 top 10 opponents in 04 and 05, how exactly is he gonna get 20 top 10 wins? Even in 06 and 07 he faced like 21-23 top 10 opponents, can't get 20 top 10 wins from that but Djokovic faced like 30 top 10 opponents in 2013.
Both Federer and Djokovic had 15 slams in their decades. But Federer had an easy time of it until 2008, whereas Djokovic's slams in his decade were all well-earned.
We kept saying Djokovic's slams in the 20's were easy. But look how everyone celebrated Rafa's slams in '22, and how everyone celebrated Sinner's slam.
I guess easy earned for Novak, hard earned for everyone else.
We kept saying Djokovic's slams in the 20's were easy. But look how everyone celebrated Rafa's slams in '22, and how everyone celebrated Sinner's slam.
I guess easy earned for Novak, hard earned for everyone else.
duaneeo
Legend
How many big HC Masters titles did Federer win facing a strong anyone during his peak?
Can't wait for the Gonzalez, Roddick, Hewitt reply
Federer was crap in 2013, but Djok was strong > 20 top 10 wins for the season is better than Fed ever achieved.
IW13 - In form Del Potro in the final. Gulbis also played well, Berdych was decent.
IW04 - 33 year old Agassi the only opponent that played well
IW05 - Ljubicic was the only decent opponent
IW06 - Battled with freaking Rochus other than that... another cake walk
Nadal's 2013 run was the most impressive
Canada13 - Beat #1 Djokovic in the SF
Canada04 - Lost a set to freaking Lucky Loser in the SEMI FINAL (yeah strong event that one LOL)
Canada06 - Won the title but lost a set to Gasquet, Gonzo, Malisse and Tursunov
Nadal's 2013 run was the most impressive
Cinci13 - Beat a decent Grigor, decent Federer and solid Berdych. Isner was serve botting to the max
Cinci05 - Lost a set to WC Ginepri in the SEMI FINAL (yeah strong event that one LOL). Blake and Kiefer were solid.
Cinci07 - Almost lost to 20th ranked Hewitt
Again, edge to Nadal's 2013 run
So CLEARLY none of Fed's PEAK years where he won at those Masters events were the draws or comp any tougher or impressive form wise.
My reply was about the likelihood of Nadal winning 4 big HC titles had he faced a strong Djokovic/Federer/Murray. Of course, even you know that likelihood is zero, which is why you didn't answer. Heck, even in his best season of 2010 with a post-prime Federer and pre-peak Nole/Murray, he couldn't win a single HC Masters, lol.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
It isn't zero, Nadal was in his best form on HC in 2013. At the time, Federer only won 2 outdoor HC matches against him... one of which was due to a bs line call... Murray would have to be at his absolute best. The only one that would realistically be able to beat him consistently is Djok... and he did just that in HC events that year...
You've been shown up big time here, Fed's peak years were all weaker draws at the corresponding masters events...
Had 2013 Nadal faced those draws he would've blitzed through them even easier than your magical peak Fed did... he wouldn't be losing sets to freaking Rochus, Ginepri, LL etc.
Last edited:
duaneeo
Legend
2013 Nadal would've had the same results against those players as 2010 Nadal had, lol.
Does 2013 win those 2006 masters? Blake and Ljubicic would give him run for his money at sunshine double as they always troubled him. Canada he probably wins. Cincinatti, he will struggle with Roddick. Maybe he wins 1-2. Certainly not 3.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Rubbish, 2010 Nadal only played really well on HC at the US Open. He caught fire that tournament. YEC he was also pretty good. His results on clay and grass in 2010 are irrelevant.
As usual, a shallow perspective from you... shouldn't expect much else really, my bad.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
More garbage... Roddick was meek at Cinci07 and in 05 he was decent but not playing at a level to beat 2013 Nadal lmfao
Blake wasn't great in Cinci07 final either lol
Ljubicic couldn't beat 05 Nadal in an indoor HC final. He won against him in 2010 IW but like I said, comparing that 2010 level from Nadal to 2013 is ridiculous... and even that match he nearly lost lol.
2010 was Nadal's most successful slam winning year, but to lump all his results as "his best year" is shallow and propaganda... IW2010 he was coming back from another knee injury sustained at the AO. Nadal's season only really picked up when clay season kicked off...
2013 Nadal would win all the corresponding HC Masters Fed won during his peak and he'd win some of them even easier than Fed did.
Fed fans with their crazy hot takes... est 2004 and still going strong
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal is the master of the universe on clay and his state of form determines whether the tour on that surface is strong or not each season.
Nadal never found it easy to deal with likes of Blake, Ljubicic, Roddick so I don’t think he sweeps them all. Perhaps he wins 2.More garbage... Roddick was meek at Cinci07 and in 05 he was decent but not playing at a level to beat 2013 Nadal lmfao
Blake wasn't great in Cinci07 final either lol
Ljubicic couldn't beat 05 Nadal in an indoor HC final. He won against him in 2010 IW but like I said, comparing that 2010 level from Nadal to 2013 is ridiculous... and even that match he nearly lost lol.
2010 was Nadal's most successful slam winning year, but to lump all his results as "his best year" is shallow and propaganda... IW2010 he was coming back from another knee injury sustained at the AO. Nadal's season only really picked up when clay season kicked off...
2013 Nadal would win all the corresponding HC Masters Fed won during his peak and he'd win some of them even easier than Fed did.
Fed fans with their crazy hot takes... est 2004 and still going strong
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
What do you mean by "never found it easy"?
He's lost 3 matches to Roddick... one of them was at US2004 when Rafa was 18...
All of the HC victories Nadal had over Roddick were in straight sets apart from YEC 2010.
James Blake all victories when Nadal was a teenager...
Ljubicic also only 2 victories, one of which Nadal was a teenager...
It’s well known that Nadal struggled with the 00s gen, especially on HCs. Roddick, Davydenko, Blake, Ljubicic all gave him problems and won multiple matches so he certainly wouldn’t win every HC master that Federer did at his peak.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Are you a bot? Why endlessly repeat the same thing over and over?
I've already told you, his struggles early on were because he was a teenager.
I've clearly pointed out your logic is rubbish
Razer
G.O.A.T.
The way Federer dominated 2004-07 it is impossible for Nadal to dominate like that without either getting injured or getting upset in certain tournaments or both. Djokovic is capable of replicating that at least for an year but after that his body would break down too showing some lapse in form, he himself was not immune to defeats at the hands of certain players. The tour just found Roger Federer harder to beat than they did Nadal/Djokovic. Novak needed lot of concentration to have a Federer like form, Nadal needed both concentration and physicality, for Federer it was a bit easier.
Last edited:
Spencer Gore
Legend
Using decades as a dividing line will always through up ultimately useless facts as it is an arbitrary measurement.
Good fun, though. And Djokovic wins this one as Federer was dominated by another player in the 00s.
Good fun, though. And Djokovic wins this one as Federer was dominated by another player in the 00s.
Spencer Gore
Legend
Federer is a single player. Nadal/Djokovic are two players, so any comparison of Federer v Nadal/Djokovic is ludicrous. 2004-07, Federer faced old Andre, Hewitt, Roddick and young Nadal (whom he lost the majority of matches to). When the other two matured they had to compete against each other AND a mature, multi-slam winning Federer. That's why 04-07 has always been known as the weak era. Weak in comparison to the incredibly strong one that followed. 04-07 had only one mature ATG in its ranks. After that we had 3. And it was game on.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Yes of course but do you see Novak dispatching off Murray and Stan with the efficiency that Federer did ? Do you see Federer losing to Nishikori in his peak like Novak did ? Do you see Federer losing in week 1 at wimbledon like Nadal did? Do you see Federer getting injured frequently as Nadal did? Do you see Federer losing to Pouille/Fognini at the US Open in his 20s ? Do you see Federer losing to Wawrinka at the Aus open?
Federer was super efficient in dispatching non ATGs like no one before or after him.
duaneeo
Legend
Pot kettle black, but whatever. Keep living in the fantasy world of Nadal being the dominant HC specialist he never was.
well firstly he was a prodigy so wouldn’t use that as an excuse. He lost a few matches between 08-10 too and was pushed close in a few. Try again.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
If he had Fed's competition from 04-07 he would won a lot more on HC...
During his prime:
Let's not pretend after WIM08 he didn't win Canada, Olympics, AO and IW... that's 4 big HC titles beating a strong Djokovic, god mode Verdasco, strong Federer, 2 wins over Murray... then got brought down by injury...
Oh and Djok was playing the best tennis of his life from AO11-AO12 which is literally the only thing that prevented him from winning another 4 big HC titles in the span of 10 months... 3/4 of those finals could've gone either way, Djok won them all because credit to him, he was mentally stronger.
Missed second half of 2012 and NA HC + US Open 2014 due to injury...
2013 was literally the year it clicked for him. He came back mentally refreshed and erased the scars against Djok on HC.
So this isn't some rubbish hot take like you and your fellow Fed brethren have where you have to desperately try to pump up the likes of Hewitt, Roddick and a 34+ yr old Agassi...
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
He was a prodigy on clay...
He wasn't consistently playing at a high level on HC until he developed his game more which happened by half way point of 08... age of 22... he won his first HC slam at roughly the same age Fed did...
I already explained why he lost to Roddick and Ljubicic in 2010 so you try again.
He lost to them both in one of his peak seasons, but put him in 2006 when both were better and he auto wins every HC masters from 04-06. Nope.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
"his best season" anyone who watched tennis back then would know that IW+Miami he was playing his first tournaments coming back from knee injury and still nearly beat them.
The whole discussion is based on his 2013 form at those events he won.
Once again, fail to comprehend anything... like I said, you're a bot.
And that form isn’t good enough to sweep the HC masters Federer won vs likes of Agassi, Roddick, Nalbandian, 05 Nadal etc.
Djokovic more consistent, Fed more dominant.
I always say put peak Djokovic in 04-08 and he doesn’t win as much as Fed did but Fed really was a letdown after that as he never won a USO again and consistently choked slams. Overall Fed was ruthless and his consecutive weeks at #1 points that out but Djokovic was more consistent over 10 years
I always say put peak Djokovic in 04-08 and he doesn’t win as much as Fed did but Fed really was a letdown after that as he never won a USO again and consistently choked slams. Overall Fed was ruthless and his consecutive weeks at #1 points that out but Djokovic was more consistent over 10 years
Djokovic more dominant, Fed more consistent is more like it.
From '12-14 Djok only won one slam a year. And '16-18 he was injured. And yet he still won 15 slams a decade, just like Fed, despite much tougher competition.
Let's face it, Fed had easy competition in the 00's. He didn't have any rival until Nadal started winning non-RG in '08.
Well since it was 2000 vs 2010’s I agree Djokovic was more dominant I just meant that certain period between 04-08.
Yes the competition wasn’t great between those years but Fed didn’t really let down.
Also 2012-2014 was Djokovic choking period where as a fan I felt he was as good as the other 2 but would never be in the debate.
2012 was what it was he was rightfully beaten by Nadal and Fed at RG and W but 2013 net touch at RG really broke him and W13 and Us13 was such a letdown.
W14 against Fed was his most important match as he choked the 4th set and if he loses he would of never recovered mentally
2011-2015 was the strongest period I seen. Nadal was at his best for most parts, Fed was still great. There was Murray, Delpo, Tsonga, Berdych, Ferrer the top 10 was stacked. Djokovic was the best player in the world just mentally in GS finals he let himself down
duaneeo
Legend
Verdasco, lol.
But anyway, no one said he couldn't score occasional wins over strong HC players. But regardless of what you're trying to spew out, Rafa was vulnerable to a host of players on HC. Ask Davydenko. Nadal never won the WTF/Miami/Shanghai/Paris, won Cincinnati once, and needed the IE to score a 2nd AO title (where he lost to 14 different players since 2005). Was all that due to injury?
Rafa winning 0-1 big HC titles per year was the norm. Winning 2 was rare. Winning more than two was an anomaly, which is why it only happened once. But again, live in your fantasy that he would've dominated 04-07 competition.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Exactly, you wouldn't have a clue how to judge a tough opponent.
So you can't argue the points... what's this per year? Something cooked up to serve your argument...
Like I said, after WIM08 through to IW09 he won 4 big HC titles. It makes zero difference if its in a calendar year, the point is he has been able to beat the best on HC consistently.
Again, IW2011-AO2012 he was only barely stopped by Djokovic playing the best tennis of his life in 3/4 big HC finals.
Had he not been plagued by so many injuries, chances are he'd have won many more HC titles...
And not sure where you're going with mentioning how many different opponents Nadal lost to at the AO... not all the losses were due to injury but a few of them certainly were... still has nothing to do with how well Nadal played in 2013...
Nadal was #2 for vast majority of 04-07 despite being a teenager for a lot of it... if he had Fed's luxury of being in his prime with teenage Fed damn straight he would've dominated. Keep dreaming that only Fed would be able to beat Hewitt and Roddick
This is pretty delusional thinking. Firstly teenage Federer was an inconsistent mess while Nadal was a prodigy and in his prime from 2005. Secondly, Roddick and Hewitt both have multiple wins over Nadal. Youre nuts if you think he’d roll over them the same way Federer did. On clay for sure but nowhere else.Nadal was #2 for vast majority of 04-07 despite being a teenager for a lot of it... if he had Fed's luxury of being in his prime with teenage Fed damn straight he would've dominated. Keep dreaming that only Fed would be able to beat Hewitt and Roddick
duaneeo
Legend
Many players (both strong and weak) are tough opponents for Nadal on hard. That's my point, and is why he's struggled at many of the big HC tournaments, and why his 2013 HC dominance was an anomaly.
Rafa has only beaten Nole twice on hard since beating him at 2010 WTFs and those two times were in 2013 at big tournaments. Nole would also lose to Del Potro, Haas (giving peak/prime Nole his only loss at Miami), and Isner. Evidence of how 2013 Nole was not playing the best HC tennis of his life.
Similar threads
- Poll
