Federer is now 1-9 against #1 at Slams

octogon

Professional
It IS an odd thing to say. Unless one is really bad at math. As usual Rafans and Nolefam counting their chickens before they hatch. You haven't learned from the past at all.

How is it odd? People were calling Federer GOAT when he was like 5 slams behind Sampras, on the presumption that he was defintely going to get past 14 slams. Federer fans were not complaining about maths then. But to be fair, people were right. It was inevitable, and Federer did pass Sampras total comfortably

I actually think it's a lot more reasonable and respectful for people to call Nadal GOAT (if they are inclined) with ONLY a 1 slam deficit. I (and many others) think it's inevitable that Nadal cruises past 20. Nadal is about to become the world no.1 again. I'd say winning two more slams is more likely than not.
 

Sudacafan

G.O.A.T.
So, your guy is not goat anymore and you won't be his fan anymore? I know you are sarcastic, but I am sure most of Fed "fans", ie. bandwagone crew, will just forget about him when Rafa and Novak surpass him...
I am just as sarcastic as anyone who liked my post.
 
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ForehandRF

Professional
Again, Fed was being declared GOAT years before he passed Sampras slam total, because his fans and media thought it inevitable. Which it turned out to be.

Yet Nadal fans are counting their chickens with a mere 1 slam gap? LOL!

Pot, I'd like you to meet some kettles.haha!
The thing is that Nadal is not that young anymore.According to some of his fans ( after they were overjoy following his 2013 USO win) Nadal was about to break the slam record in 2014-2015.

Don't worry man, I am not a Federer fan because of his GS record.I am his fan ever since 2004, times when nobody could have known how many slams he was about to win.I am his fan because I like his game, nothing more simpler than that.If he will lose his GS record so be it.It's not like it will change my life or something.
 

Krish0608

Hall of Fame
How is it odd? People were calling Federer GOAT when he was like 5 slams behind Sampras, on the presumption that he was defintely going to get past 14 slams. Federer fans were not complaining about maths then. But to be fair, people were right. It was inevitable, and Federer did pass Sampras total comfortably

I actually think it's a lot more reasonable and respectful for people to call Nadal GOAT (if they are inclined) with ONLY a 1 slam deficit. I (and many others) think it's inevitable that Nadal cruises past 20. Nadal is about to become the world no.1 again. I'd say winning two more slams is more likely than not.
#1. Sampras was retired and Federer was chasing a fixed target whilst being in his absolute prime. So it was expected that the rate at which Federer was racking up slams, he would one day overtake Pete. And FYI, Fed was proclaimed GOAT only after he overtook Sampras. Only some fanatics and fan-boys crowned him before he got to 15. Most of the tennis/RF fans waited till he got to 15 to claim GOAThood, which was normal.

#2 Federer is still a moving target. He is not done yet. He is slower and more prone to upsets, definitely. But till he plays, he remains a moving target, unlike Sampras. He will always have a fair shot at Wimbledon.

#3 Nadal has not been able to beat Fedovic off clay for the last 5 years. The streak is now 14-0. So if he meets one of these 2 outside FO(or even Medvedev for that matter), the odds are stacked against him. He has not figured them out outside clay

#4 Nadal had quite a subpar clay season in 2019, by his standards. His level was far far from his prime and he just about found another gear in time for the French Open. Luckily from him, there is only Thiem posing a challenge on that surface and he hasn't shown enough gumption to take down Nadal. But the cracks were there to be seen in 2019. He isn't getting any younger next year.

#5 New gen is finally getting their act together. Shanghai is a sign of things to come. Medvedev having the hottest streak by a youngster since forever. Tsitsipas coming into his own this year beating Federer and Djokovic on hard and Nadal on clay. Zverev showing signs of potential. Many other youngsters who could break new gorund in 2020 like Shapo and FAA.

The situation is a lot more complicated than it looks. Yes, there are few things more certain in life than Rafa winning RG, but hold your horses. Don't count the chickens before they hatch because neither is Fed done, nor is Rafa in his absolute prime to be making over-confident predictions.
 

octogon

Professional
The thing is that Nadal is not that young anymore.According to some of his fans ( after they were overjoy following his 2013 USO win) Nadal was about to break the slam record in 2014-2015.
Things change. It's obvious that being in your early 30's is no longer a detriment to playing at the highest level. Nadal is the most consistent of the Big 3 Now and is about to become world no.1 again. And he doesn't overplay like he used to to prevent serious injury.

Just looking at how things currently stand, I think it would actually be delusional to suggest he hasn't got a minimum of 2 slams left in him (He may actually have a lot more than that left, but that seem a bare minimum right now).
 

octogon

Professional
#1. Sampras was retired and Federer was chasing a fixed target whilst being in his absolute prime. So it was expected that the rate at which Federer was racking up slams, he would one day overtake Pete. And FYI, Fed was proclaimed GOAT only after he overtook Sampras. Only some fanatics and fan-boys crowned him before he got to 15. Most of the tennis/RF fans waited till he got to 15 to claim GOAThood, which was normal.

#2 Federer is still a moving target. He is not done yet. He is slower and more prone to upsets, definitely. But till he plays, he remains a moving target, unlike Sampras. He will always have a fair shot at Wimbledon.

#3 Nadal has not been able to beat Fedovic off clay for the last 5 years. The streak is now 14-0. So if he meets one of these 2 outside FO(or even Medvedev for that matter), the odds are stacked against him. He has not figured them out outside clay

#4 Nadal had quite a subpar clay season in 2019, by his standards. His level was far far from his prime and he just about found another gear in time for the French Open. Luckily from him, there is only Thiem posing a challenge on that surface and he hasn't shown enough gumption to take down Nadal. But the cracks were there to be seen in 2019. He isn't getting any younger next year.

#5 New gen is finally getting their act together. Shanghai is a sign of things to come. Medvedev having the hottest streak by a youngster since forever. Tsitsipas coming into his own this year beating Federer and Djokovic on hard and Nadal on clay. Zverev showing signs of potential. Many other youngsters who could break new gorund in 2020 like Shapo and FAA.

The situation is a lot more complicated than it looks. Yes, there are few things more certain in life than Rafa winning RG, but hold your horses. Don't count the chickens before they hatch because neither is Fed done, nor is Rafa in his absolute prime to be making over-confident predictions.

Nah....I'm counting them chickens. Nadal will hold the slam record. All the hypothetical roadblocks and dream scenarios in the world won't stop that.
 

ForehandRF

Professional
Things change. It's obvious that being in your early 30's is no longer a detriment to playing at the highest level. Nadal is the most consistent of the Big 3 Now and is about to become world no.1 again. And he doesn't overplay like he used to to prevent serious injury.

Just looking at how things currently stand, I think it would actually be delusional to suggest he hasn't got a minimum of 2 slams left in him (He may actually have a lot more than that left, but that seem a bare minimum right now).
What if Fed is not done winning slams ? In that case, 2 slams may prove insuficient.Still, most likely Fed won't win another one and all will be between Nadal and Djokovic, assuming the youngsters won't win slams.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Things change. It's obvious that being in your early 30's is no longer a detriment to playing at the highest level. Nadal is the most consistent of the Big 3 Now and is about to become world no.1 again. And he doesn't overplay like he used to to prevent serious injury.

Just looking at how things currently stand, I think it would actually be delusional to suggest he hasn't got a minimum of 2 slams left in him (He may actually have a lot more than that left, but that seem a bare minimum right now).
Fed had 3 of the previous 5 Slams won after the 2018 AO and then played like crap for the next 4 Slams. Think Djokovic after the 2016 FO. Think Federer after the 2010 AO or 2007 USO. Think Nadal after the 2014 FO. It all goes well until it doesn't.

Nadal loses at both the AO (duh) and the FO and the bubble BURSTS just like that. If you think a 34+ year old player is certain to win multiple Slams at this point you're out of your freaking mind. Fed was in red hot form in 2017 but was 35/36 at the time but Fed fans didn't take anything for granted at the time because of his age. Nadal will be close to that age in 2020.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Nah....I'm counting them chickens. Nadal will hold the slam record. All the hypothetical roadblocks and dream scenarios in the world won't stop that.
Including yours in which Nadal wins multiple Slams, Federer/Djokovic win nothing more and the youngster will keep sucking hard forever?
 
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Jaitock1991

Hall of Fame
It must annoy Lew that Fed is still GOAT despite all his stats.
And ironically he does not seem to realize that even though he's deliberately fabricating stats more or less exclusively to subtly detract Fed and kill his GOAThood, the more he is actually enforcing the opposite. With all the fans loving you there is also going to be a vaste group of people hating you and everything you stand for. This hate expresses itself in many ways.

Our young little Lewie here is merely just the ugly backside of the golden coin of GOAThood. A symptom of Federer being GOAT.
 
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Lew II

Hall of Fame
And ironically he does not seem to realize that even though he's deliberately fabricating stats more or less exclusively to subtly detract Fed and kill his GOAThood, the more he is actually enforcing the opposite. With all the fans loving you there is also going to be a vaste group of people hating you and everything you stand for. This hate expresses itself in many ways.

Our young little Lewie here is merely just the ugly backside of the golden coin of GOAThood. A symptom of Federer being GOAT.
So Kyrgios is greater than Ferrer just because people talk about him more?
 

beard

Professional
Djokovic is 4-4 against Wawrinka in slams.That tells a lot on how accurate the h2h is as a measurement in determining who is the greater player.Tennis is not boxing at the end of the day.H2H maniacs, if there is an exception to your theory, that means that your entire theory is wrong.
Wawa is not comparable with Novak in all time greatness so no point in mentioning their slam h2h.
They played "only" 8 matches, Fed played 30 slam matched against Rafole.... Be serious, please :)
 

ForehandRF

Professional
Wawa is not comparable with Novak in all time greatness so no point in mentioning their slam h2h.
They played "only" 8 matches, Fed played 30 slam matched against Rafole.... Be serious, please :)
Man, the thing is Fed is no lesser player compared with the other 2.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Jokovitch has a losing H2H against Medvedev, Tsitsipas and Kyrgios.

Fraudererx has a losing H2H against Djokovic and Nadal.

Baldal has a losing H2H against Dustin Brown and Álex Corretja.

Logical conclusion: sir Andy Murray GOAT is.
Djokovic doesn't have a losing head to head against Medvedev.
 

SaintPetros

Hall of Fame
Again, Fed was being declared GOAT years before he passed Sampras slam total, because his fans and media thought it inevitable. Which it turned out to be.

Yet Nadal fans are counting their chickens with a mere 1 slam gap? LOL!

Pot, I'd like you to meet some kettles.haha!
Fraudsters at their finest.
 
2019 Wimbledon was the 9th loss in 10 matches against the #1 at Slams:

Wi19 lost to Djokovic
Ao16 lost to Djokovic
Uo15 lost to Djokovic
Wi15 lost to Djokovic
Ao14 lost to Nadal
Wi12 beat Djokovic
Rg12 lost to Djokovic
Uo11 lost to Djokovic
Rg11 lost to Nadal
Ao09 lost to Nadal
What ages was he and his opponent in these?
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Hope you are kidding.
Question:

In 2003 you won your first title in Dubai. How much chances would the Federer of 2003 have against the Federer of today?

Answer from Federer:

Not many chances I believe. The game has extremely changed. It is more dynamic, faster and has become somewhat ruthless. The players are more athletic and the material makes the game faster. I myself have become better. In fact, I had to become better because I had new opponents and new challenges. Tennis on this level doesn’t allow you stagnancy. (March, 2019)
 
Question:

In 2003 you won your first title in Dubai. How much chances would the Federer of 2003 have against the Federer of today?

Answer from Federer:

Not many chances I believe. The game has extremely changed. It is more dynamic, faster and has become somewhat ruthless. The players are more athletic and the material makes the game faster. I myself have become better. In fact, I had to become better because I had new opponents and new challenges. Tennis on this level doesn’t allow you stagnancy. (March, 2019)
Yes, he did get better by 07. New challenges and adapting does not mean you are better, but playing different tennis in a new era.

Plus, if you are saying you believ all of Feds opinions are truth and fact... well this could be a fun game.

If Fed is better now at 38 then wow that is impressive that he beat Rafa and djoker in slams back then. While I do think he has days where he is close to his best, he has many days where he simply is not even half as good as he was. His age makes him play inconsistent, which means overall he is not as good.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Yes, he did get better by 07. New challenges and adapting does not mean you are better, but playing different tennis in a new era.

Plus, if you are saying you believ all of Feds opinions are truth and fact... well this could be a fun game.

If Fed is better now at 38 then wow that is impressive that he beat Rafa and djoker in slams back then. While I do think he has days where he is close to his best, he has many days where he simply is not even half as good as he was. His age makes him play inconsistent, which means overall he is not as good.
If a player defined when was his best, for me it is the end of the story. No discussion.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
What do Djoker and Rafa say about it? Are they saying they are not as good as they once were?
During US open 2018 Djokovic said that he played as well as ever and also said that the best hard court version of Federer he played against was 2015USO. Regarding Nadal, I remember that he said in 2015 that he was not as good as before.
 

Sudacafan

G.O.A.T.
2019 Wimbledon was the 9th loss in 10 matches against the #1 at Slams:

Wi19 lost to Djokovic
Ao16 lost to Djokovic
Uo15 lost to Djokovic
Wi15 lost to Djokovic
Ao14 lost to Nadal
Wi12 beat Djokovic
Rg12 lost to Djokovic
Uo11 lost to Djokovic
Rg11 lost to Nadal
Ao09 lost to Nadal
By the way, as he is 1-9, when and against whom did Fed get his only win against the #1 ranked player In a slam?
 

topher

Professional
#1. Sampras was retired and Federer was chasing a fixed target whilst being in his absolute prime. So it was expected that the rate at which Federer was racking up slams, he would one day overtake Pete. And FYI, Fed was proclaimed GOAT only after he overtook Sampras. Only some fanatics and fan-boys crowned him before he got to 15. Most of the tennis/RF fans waited till he got to 15 to claim GOAThood, which was normal.

#2 Federer is still a moving target. He is not done yet. He is slower and more prone to upsets, definitely. But till he plays, he remains a moving target, unlike Sampras. He will always have a fair shot at Wimbledon.

#3 Nadal has not been able to beat Fedovic off clay for the last 5 years. The streak is now 14-0. So if he meets one of these 2 outside FO(or even Medvedev for that matter), the odds are stacked against him. He has not figured them out outside clay

#4 Nadal had quite a subpar clay season in 2019, by his standards. His level was far far from his prime and he just about found another gear in time for the French Open. Luckily from him, there is only Thiem posing a challenge on that surface and he hasn't shown enough gumption to take down Nadal. But the cracks were there to be seen in 2019. He isn't getting any younger next year.

#5 New gen is finally getting their act together. Shanghai is a sign of things to come. Medvedev having the hottest streak by a youngster since forever. Tsitsipas coming into his own this year beating Federer and Djokovic on hard and Nadal on clay. Zverev showing signs of potential. Many other youngsters who could break new gorund in 2020 like Shapo and FAA.

The situation is a lot more complicated than it looks. Yes, there are few things more certain in life than Rafa winning RG, but hold your horses. Don't count the chickens before they hatch because neither is Fed done, nor is Rafa in his absolute prime to be making over-confident predictions.
#1 - LOL, did you not watch tennis in 2004-2007 or something? Federer's name was being floated around as possibly the GOAT in 2004. By the end of 2007, with him at 12 slams and counting, the debate was over between him and Sampras to many, likely most. I never felt that was fair to Pete, but its how it went down. Federer's entry on wikipedia from November 2007 states: "His success has led many experts and peers to acknowledge him as the greatest tennis player of all time." With 7 sources to back it up. That's not even getting into the threads you'd find here on Fedfans warehouse.

#2 Agreed, Fed could always win another, I wouldn't be surprised.

#3 That streak is overrated when you look at when most of those wins came. That's not to say Rafa would be the underdog off-clay, he likely would, but if he'd faced them at the USO for example he would've likely won. This is because at their late ages, the Big 3's form varies from tournament to tournament.

#4 Agreed that Thiem is an increasing threat on clay as Rafa ages, along with others, however Rafa was fresh off a nearly career-ending injury in spring 2019, so that's not to say he can't improve in 2020 on clay.

#5 Rafa has a great record against the youngsters so far. Its always possible that they could do the hardwork for Rafa and take Fedovic out for him in the slams.

I agree with your overall point that declaring Rafa the slam race leader is silly, however to act like no one did the same to Roger in 2007 is somewhere between bad memory to a bald-faced lie. Roger fans were dunking on Pete fans left and right like the GOAT race was over from nearly the beginning.
 
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UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
It’s not all about the Fed fans. Honestly, some Djokovic and Nadal fans here are more obsessed with Federer than their own players.
The three go hand-in-hand(-in-hand).

It is impossible to be a fan of one yet ignore the other two... Right?

Their careers are intertwined.
 
The three go hand-in-hand(-in-hand).

It is impossible to be a fan of one yet ignore the other two... Right?

Their careers are intertwined.
Fedal, yes.

Novak Djokovic is like the red headed stepchild who we have to give some attention to - but in the long run, he's not really relevant in the GOAT debate.
 
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