Federer is the smartest player in tennis, and it isn't even close

Rafa has been the smartest, but Fed has become a lot smarter then he was before since hanging around Edberg.
 
Will be interesting to see where Nadal et al are when they're 34. My guess is they won't even be around - not so smart.
 
Federer20042006 said:
LOL @ "improving Federer's backhand." Federer has been in pro tennis for 15 years now. How many freak'n years are people going to talk about him "improving his backhand" when it only gets worse and worse?
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its actually much better since Edberged it, just still a liability but the rest of his game is so punishing.

Federer20042006 said:
Moreover, his forehand is the most overrated shot in the history of tennis. Errors galore, little power. It's not even in the same universe as Nadal's, and I hate Nadal. Nadal can put his anywhere on the dime.
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Fed has the second most effective FH on the tour for hardcourts while Nads is the best on clay. Noodles is actually the best for Harcourts and reaching Nadals FH on clay as well but needs more clay time.

Nads FH sits up perfect for todays big hitters who love a high bouncing ball. Feds serve and variety is superior to Nads and Nole but the retrieval ability of Nole is the ultimate followed by Nadal, third Murray and 4th Roger.

The top 4 contenders have different weapons and Fed is still holding strong injury free as he also has the most flowing almost gliding footwork.

Federer20042006 said:
It's not only Bolelli, it's guys like Ungur. It's guys like Giraldo. The dreaded blind-red-lining Chardy takes the match out of Federer's hand, too. Smyczek was hitting jumping 2-handers, Rios-style, while Federer would be completely helpless against Nadal, just trying to keep the ball in play.
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Bolelli could not keep the fh maxxed out like that for longer than a set, Feds FH is the same as Feds serve, placement enough pace and hit early enough to take time away from the opponent. Power is nothing without a brain, consistency and precision.

Unfortunately I think you are a big Fed fan but but trying to desensitize yourself as his time at trying to reach the top pinnacle again is looking slim
and he might not win that other slam. I hope he does but the field is so strong at the moment and the courts are still too slow at the AO.

Idiots in charge of the surfaces dont see real tennis fans want serve volley back which is what Roger can do so well but not on these hacker friendly courts. If Fed had the original grass blend at wimby he would be sitting on at least 10 of those cups by now.
 
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racquetreligion said:
its actually much better since Edberged it, just still a liability but the rest of his game is so punishing.
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It's not. It's the same as it's always been. He slices some, he hits short, weak top spin replies, he tries to go down the line and misses most, he gets pinned to his backhand corner and has to hope the opponent misses to have any chance to win the point.

It's just that typical talking point for analysts so they have something to say. They have said Federer's backhand has improved every single year since he started playing.

"FID-uh-ruh would like to thank the other ply-ihs for making his backhand beh-uh." Over and over again. Match after match.

Then he switched rackets so they tried to work the new racket into it. "Fid-uh-ruh's backhand is beh-uh with the larger frIme." No, it really isn't.

And honestly, I doubt Edberg has done much actual coaching. My guess is he's just a hitting partner. He has already commented on how much Federer knows about tennis, which basically seemed to acknowledge that Federer knows more than him, leaving him with little to tell him. Federer has him there to inspire him and to serve as a reminder to believe he can be successful coming forward. Whenever he looks to his box, "oh yeah, Edberg did it, I can too."


Fed has the second most effective FH on the tour for hardcourts while Nads is the best on clay. Noodles is actually the best for Harcourts and reaching Nadals FH on clay as well but needs more clay time.
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I can think of dozens of FHs I'd rather have, HC, grass, and clay. Give me Berdych's. Give me Tsonga's. Give me Dimitrov's.

Nads FH sits up perfect for todays big hitters who love a high bouncing ball. Feds serve and variety is superior to Nads and Nole but the retrieval ability of Nole is the ultimate followed by Nadal, third Murray and 4th Roger.

The top 4 contenders have different weapons and Fed is still holding strong injury free as he also has the most flowing almost gliding footwork.
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Nadal has won 17 consecutive matches vs. Berdych, so it doesn't seem so perfect for them to me.

Federer's had recurring back problems. He simply doesn't invent ridiculous fictional injuries the way Nadal does.


Bolelli could not keep the fh maxxed out like that for longer than a set, Feds FH is the same as Feds serve, placement enough pace and hit early enough to take time away from the opponent. Power is nothing without a brain, consistency and precision.
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Bolelli simply made too many errors. Federer was able to stay patient and rely on his tremendously smart serve to keep the 2nd set level.
 
It is short to say that whoever plays tennis like "near table" pingpong rally, will be GOATing most of the time.

Federer and Djokovic stayed near the baseline and hit balls like pancakes.

Agassi, Bolleli, Rios.... etc..
 
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The amount of nonsense spewed by some people in this thread is just...


3854b42043f5603aef5ad76ca18912b4725276fe9e9a76ae108d85c73a56e46d.jpg


stupidity.gif
 
If Federer is so smart, then how come he hasn't been able to come up with a winning plan against Nadal in over 10 years?
 
jga111 said:
He beat Nadal in the Wimbledon final in 2006 and 2007 as well as other occasions. I guess they don't count in your book?
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He beat Nadal simply because Federer was close to his peak at those events and because he is one of the best grass players ever. Not because he came up with any winning plan against Nadal. 2007 in particular was too close for comfort for Federer. Nadal was great for a 21 year old, but Federer's lack of a plan is what made that final run to the wire (until Nadal had the knee problem in the 5th).
 
Federer20042006 said:
Federer's serve averages 110, not 120-129. A "big bomb" from Federer is 125 down the T.

His slice sits up waiting to be hit. Some players struggle with it, others kill it. It's mostly just a shot he uses to stay in the point because he's getting pummeled from the stronger opponent.
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His T-serve averages 120-125. The flat wide serve averages 115-120. The slider serve is the 110-115.

Fed's average 1st serve speed is 110-112 usually.

He's just so deadly accurate with it that he doesn't need 130+ deliveries to be dominant. He's usually in the top 3 1st serve points won every year since 2004.
 
Federer20042006 said:
Federer's serve averages 110, not 120-129. A "big bomb" from Federer is 125 down the T.

His slice sits up waiting to be hit. Some players struggle with it, others kill it. It's mostly just a shot he uses to stay in the point because he's getting pummeled from the stronger opponent.
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not the fastest serve but have you ever seen anyone ace djokovic like that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDmfuDFu0xU

do these look like floating slice and are easy to kill? only nadal can murder these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igicoafWhT0
 
Federer20042006 said:
People are so brainwashed to believe the "Federer is talented" mantra that they can't even see that Federer is an overachieving junkballer. When a pitcher's fastball doesn't top 85, we don't talk about how great his stuff is, we talk about how good he is at working the strike zone and using junk pitches to compensate.

What Smyczek did against Nadal last night, Federer could never do. Federer would've lost in straights...4 at most. Because when Federer's junk is rendered ineffective by the opponent, there's not much he can do.
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Go watch 2011 WTF Nadal vs Federer. Enjoy your first Federer match.
 
kishnabe said:
Go watch 2011 WTF Nadal vs Federer. Enjoy your first Federer match.
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i love that match, a good video of federer ground game is nadal vs fed 2009 AO, i dont think anyone could have done better without their 1st serve working properly in that match. federer ground game is not mediocre. even smyczek had to serve out of his mind to push nadal to 5th set, and nadal was playing crappy. OP is High out of his mind
 
Federer20042006 said:
It's not. It's the same as it's always been. He slices some, he hits short, weak top spin replies, he tries to go down the line and misses most, he gets pinned to his backhand corner and has to hope the opponent misses to have any chance to win the point.

It's just that typical talking point for analysts so they have something to say. They have said Federer's backhand has improved every single year since he started playing.

"FID-uh-ruh would like to thank the other ply-ihs for making his backhand beh-uh." Over and over again. Match after match.

Then he switched rackets so they tried to work the new racket into it. "Fid-uh-ruh's backhand is beh-uh with the larger frIme." No, it really isn't.

And honestly, I doubt Edberg has done much actual coaching. My guess is he's just a hitting partner. He has already commented on how much Federer knows about tennis, which basically seemed to acknowledge that Federer knows more than him, leaving him with little to tell him. Federer has him there to inspire him and to serve as a reminder to believe he can be successful coming forward. Whenever he looks to his box, "oh yeah, Edberg did it, I can too."

I can think of dozens of FHs I'd rather have, HC, grass, and clay. Give me Berdych's. Give me Tsonga's. Give me Dimitrov's.
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Dude pls.
Underrating Federer much? :mad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtwkf_pIS9A
Here is 12mins of unadulterated footage of Federer showing the tennis world how it is.

He dominated the tour and bent them to his will for years on end, and has spearheaded the tennis world for over a decade.

Even at age 33 he makes Top 10's look like they belong in school.

He is at like 30% of his prime level, yet you have to be Top 5 to have much of a chance of breaking his serve, and even then he basically has to let you do it.

Picture related: Federer winning the official Nike "Kicking The Establishment's A*se" trophy, aged 33.
dm_141012_ten_federer_shanghai_highlight.jpg
 
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Fed also has done it on a ridiculous slow court era with a non hacking aggressive baseline game which make his domination even more incredible.
As for DimSim good FH Lol should have seen him against Bags, Hewitt would be proud the way Dimwits FH was pushed in fear, Fed knows when to bring it on on his FH
besides the top guys most of these newcombers you list swing blindly and hope
Only Raonicheat and Noodles FH is looking promising

OP - You either are just trying to desensitize yourself for the fact he is not going to be what he was as a 25 yo or posing as a Fed fan but really a frustrated Nole or Rafa parasite.
 
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Has Sabratha seen this thread yet? She might have something to say.

Honestly, although Federer seems fairly smart off the court, I think he can be pretty thick on court. I can't count how many matches I've seen where he stubbornly keeps up with the same tactic over and over again. The smart players that come to mind are Hewitt, Nadal and Youzhny. From past players, Sampras comes to mind.
 
Add Seppi to the list of guys with better ground strokes than Federer.

Federer used to get away with subpar ground strokes because he moved/defended so well and could frustrate opponents with junk. Now that he doesn't have the same quickness, he's exposed right and left.
 
Federer20042006 said:
Add Seppi to the list of guys with better ground strokes than Federer.

Federer used to get away with subpar ground strokes because he moved/defended so well and could frustrate opponents with junk. Now that he doesn't have the same quickness, he's exposed right and left.
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17 grand slam titles to 0 and Seppi is the one with the better groundies?
 
Seriously you should stop trolling. Federer still has the best groundies in the game, just because he's struggling in this tournament doesn't mean jack squat.
 
Strobe Lights said:
Tell me again how Roger "let's keep going to this guy's strength" Federer is the smartest player in the game?
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What strength? Federer had no options because he was at the mercy of Seppi's superior ground strokes. He either serves brilliantly and makes the opponent play badly enough to win, or he loses.
 
Federer20042006 said:
What strength? Federer had no options because he was at the mercy of Seppi's superior ground strokes. He either serves brilliantly and makes the opponent play badly enough to win, or he loses.
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Seppi has great shots and Federer is a good mover (especially for his age). But Federer used to move well and blow people away. Your view is a little onesided.
 
Povl Carstensen said:
Seppi has great shots and Federer is a good mover (especially for his age). But Federer used to move well and blow people away. Your view is a little onesided.
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He has no brain, he will continue to troll Federer fans.

He probably knows Federer true ability, just a clown that has no time on his hands.
 
Federer20042006 said:
What strength? Federer had no options because he was at the mercy of Seppi's superior ground strokes. He either serves brilliantly and makes the opponent play badly enough to win, or he loses.
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You seem to disregard spins, angles, slices, paces as being part of groundstrokes, which to me is frankly ridiculous. So by using those things to make your opponent "play badly enough" is not because your groundstrokes are great? Of course it is. Groundstrokes are not just the super hard, flat shots.

A smart player would have realised "Hey, I'm not playing that well today and this guy's FH is on. But his BH looks pretty dodgy. I should throw a lot of junk at it until he coughs up errors or a short ball I can put away".

Instead, Federer went "Hey, I'm not playing that well today and this guy's FH is on. But his BH look pretty dodgy. But forget that, I'm going to keep going to his FH because I'm Roger Federer and I will not let this stand. I don't care if doing exactly this cost me the 2009 USO and as a result the NCYGS. I'm Roger Federer."
 
Strobe Lights said:
You seem to disregard spins, angles, slices, paces as being part of groundstrokes, which to me is frankly ridiculous. So by using those things to make your opponent "play badly enough" is not because your groundstrokes are great? Of course it is. Groundstrokes are not just the super hard, flat shots.

A smart player would have realised "Hey, I'm not playing that well today and this guy's FH is on. But his BH looks pretty dodgy. I should throw a lot of junk at it until he coughs up errors or a short ball I can put away".

Instead, Federer went "Hey, I'm not playing that well today and this guy's FH is on. But his BH look pretty dodgy. But forget that, I'm going to keep going to his FH because I'm Roger Federer and I will not let this stand. I don't care if doing exactly this cost me the 2009 USO and as a result the NCYGS. I'm Roger Federer."
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Couldn't agree more! Guess what: I hate watching this one-dimensional ball basher Federer. That's NOT why I like watching him!

Just why, oh' why, doesn't he figure it out? :confused:

http://www.tacticaltennisblog.com/finding-federer-part-2-slice-backhand/
 
Strobe Lights said:
You seem to disregard spins, angles, slices, paces as being part of groundstrokes, which to me is frankly ridiculous. So by using those things to make your opponent "play badly enough" is not because your groundstrokes are great? Of course it is. Groundstrokes are not just the super hard, flat shots.

A smart player would have realised "Hey, I'm not playing that well today and this guy's FH is on. But his BH looks pretty dodgy. I should throw a lot of junk at it until he coughs up errors or a short ball I can put away".

Instead, Federer went "Hey, I'm not playing that well today and this guy's FH is on. But his BH look pretty dodgy. But forget that, I'm going to keep going to his FH because I'm Roger Federer and I will not let this stand. I don't care if doing exactly this cost me the 2009 USO and as a result the NCYGS. I'm Roger Federer."
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Federer's ground strokes are remarkably unimpressive when you watch him rallying with one journeyman after another and having to rely on his serve to keep him in front.

As for hitting to the opponent's backhand more - why doesn't everyone do the same to Federer, since he has the worst backhand in tennis other than Ivo Karlovic? It's not that easy.
 
Federer20042006 said:
Federer's ground strokes are remarkably unimpressive when you watch him rallying with one journeyman after another and having to rely on his serve to keep him in front.



As for hitting to the opponent's backhand more - why doesn't everyone do the same to Federer, since he has the worst backhand in tennis other than Ivo Karlovic? It's not that easy.
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Looks like Clarky changed allegiances.
 
torpantennis said:
Couldn't agree more! Guess what: I hate watching this one-dimensional ball basher Federer. That's NOT why I like watching him!

Just why, oh' why, doesn't he figure it out? :confused:

http://www.tacticaltennisblog.com/finding-federer-part-2-slice-backhand/
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Federer can't even ball bash anymore. There was a time when he could out-hit and overwhelm even the biggest hitters on tour, but now he gets bullied around by the likes of Seppi. His ground strokes have virtually no power now.
 
Dimitrov is proof Federer is an overachiever. He does every single thing better than Federer except shot selection/serve selection. He can't put it together.
 
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Federer20042006 post: 9009473 said:
Watching tonight really cemented it for me - nobody does more with less. Federer's ground strokes are downright mediocre compared to the rest of the ATP tour...there are numerous journeymen with better ground strokes than Federer. Bolelli, Smyczek...they're everywhere. Ungur.

But it's the shot selection Federer uses that kills opponents. He makes opponents uncomfortable, he crafts points.

Of course, sometimes he appears to be a stupid player by playing ill-advised shots, but I now think that's because his general mindset is he has to always play his brand of strange tennis in order to have any chance to beat most players.

Even his serve is lacking power by ATP standards, but the way he mixes it up is unparalleled in the men's game. Opponents have no idea what he's going to do. That's why it's so effective.
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Completely agree OP. Fedr usually just junk balls most of the time but still manages to outsmart most of his opponents. He probably has the worst groundstrokes in the top 100, but he's so smart with his shots. Not to mention his unparalleled mental strength and work ethic which have pretty much been the backbone of his career. He may not have the talent of Djokoic or Nadal, but he still manages to stay in their league.
 
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