Federer, Murray, Djokovic...and Safin

DMP

Professional
I think the semi and final matches at Wimbledon help clarify something.

Looking at the semi and final results at Wimbledon I would say that Federer played as well as I have seen him for a couple of years. Maybe his back is a lot better right now. In his match against Murray he played superbly, hitting his spots on serve and getting close to the lines. Although Murray played well, he wasn't really able to pressurise Federer, and his serve let him down when it really mattered.

In the final, by contrast, Federer started off in the same way, but this time Djokovic was able to neutralise him, and most importantly to serve well when it really mattered.

So I would say, given that everyone was saying that Murray was playing as well as he has ever done, these results show that in the end Djokovic is simply a better player than Murray, as his record shows.

However...if we go back to the AO of 2005 we find Federer at his absolute best (and I don't believe that Federer in 2015 moves as well as Federer of 2005) being beaten by Safin in that titanic semi-final. So at his very best Safin is clearly better than Murray. And yet Safin, like Murray, has only two slams, and isn't going to get any more.

So looking at all these results I would say they show, apart from the fact that Djokovic is just a better player than Murray, that Murray has probably been maximising on his abilty, unlike Safin who definitely did not.

PS Hard courts may see Murray add something to his total before his career is over, but given his age, it is a toss-up whether he will.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Djokovic of the 2014 and 2015 at Wimbledon would have probably left Murray without a Wimbledon.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I think the semi and final matches at Wimbledon help clarify something.

Looking at the semi and final results at Wimbledon I would say that Federer played as well as I have seen him for a couple of years. Maybe his back is a lot better right now. In his match against Murray he played superbly, hitting his spots on serve and getting close to the lines. Although Murray played well, he wasn't really able to pressurise Federer, and his serve let him down when it really mattered.

In the final, by contrast, Federer started off in the same way, but this time Djokovic was able to neutralise him, and most importantly to serve well when it really mattered.

So I would say, given that everyone was saying that Murray was playing as well as he has ever done, these results show that in the end Djokovic is simply a better player than Murray, as his record shows.

However...if we go back to the AO of 2005 we find Federer at his absolute best (and I don't believe that Federer in 2015 moves as well as Federer of 2005) being beaten by Safin in that titanic semi-final. So at his very best Safin is clearly better than Murray. And yet Safin, like Murray, has only two slams, and isn't going to get any more.

So looking at all these results I would say they show, apart from the fact that Djokovic is just a better player than Murray, that Murray has probably been maximising on his abilty, unlike Safin who definitely did not.

PS Hard courts may see Murray add something to his total before his career is over, but given his age, it is a toss-up whether he will.

What do you mean by 'something'? As for his age being a handicap, he is exactly the same age as Djokovic!
 

syc23

Professional
Federer was simply not good enough to beat Novak in the final. No one cares what happened in the SF. Deal with it.
 

DMP

Professional
What do you mean by 'something'? As for his age being a handicap, he is exactly the same age as Djokovic!

By 'something' I mean a slam, WTF, or Olympic gold. His age is a handicap because right now he has to get past Djokojovic (same age but better), or someone else. That someone else is increasingly likely to be someone from the new generation who will be younger, faster, etc.

However all is not lost because I have been watching tennis long enough to know there are no done deals and expected results can be overturned. Emerson can slide into a net post, Federer can step on a tennis ball, back, shoulder and wrist problems can strike players down. This year Djokovic could have been taken down by Anderson, and my guess is that Federer would probably have won the whole thing.

My post was really to put Murray's achievements into context, which is what I think the semi and final results did clarify. He gets a lot of criticism at times, but I think the results show that while he isn't as good as Federer or Djokovic (or Nadal), he has maximised his ability. In that he compares favourably with a lot of players, like Safin certainly, but also Nalbandian, Tsonga, Gasquet. Talented players but probably underachievers overall. Wawrinka is very similar, someone else who has maximised on his abilty.
 
Safn at his best was clearly better than a lot of guys. Unfortunately, safin's "very best" only happened twice. Once at flushing in 2000 and once at Australia in 2005

Pretty close in 2002 and 2004, but on the first occasion he inexplicably couldn't wait to go partying until after the final and so showed up for it hungover, and on the other wore himself out after the draw from hell.
 

DMP

Professional
OP: I agree. However, Federer on grass is better than Federer on rebound ace, so that may have played a part, too.

I agree. Which is another reason I think Murray might get something else. He will be less troubled by Federer on that surface, so if Djokovic was taken out by circumstances, then Murray would be in with a better chance than at Wimbledon.
 
I agree. Which is another reason I think Murray might get something else. He will be less troubled by Federer on that surface, so if Djokovic was taken out by circumstances, then Murray would be in with a better chance than at Wimbledon.

Yes, if it weren't for Djokovic, Murray might be a multiple Australian Open champion by now. It's probably the tournament at which he's most comfortable. (Now, Federer is probably at least as good on rebound ace as he is on plexicushion. But that's another story).
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I agree. Which is another reason I think Murray might get something else. He will be less troubled by Federer on that surface, so if Djokovic was taken out by circumstances, then Murray would be in with a better chance than at Wimbledon.

So, in a nutshell, Murray has no chance unless Djokovic and probably Federer too are taken out of the draw? Painful as it is, I think I have to agree with this. That certainly seems to be the way it is at the moment!
 

DMP

Professional
So, in a nutshell, Murray has no chance unless Djokovic and probably Federer too are taken out of the draw?

Don't be so pessimistic! If Djokovic is at his best against Murray then I think he will win anywhere. But Djokovic can have his off days (RG comes to mind), and that will increasingly happen as he ages. Performance gets erratic as you get older and really bad days happen more frequently. If it happened when Murray was on an 'up' day then things could be overturned. The trouble is that other players will increasingly have good days against Murray too...

Life is a bugger as you age as a sportsman!
 
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