Federer new Vapor X not the true shoe

eman11

Rookie
There is no surprise here (only surprise is that it hasn't been brought up), but just wanted to say that the GOAT is still using his same outsole... which is good, hopefully (at least) one more GS in 2018.
The outsole can be seen on the Perth YouTube video of Fed's practice from yesterday.
Why doesn't Nike just sell the shoe how they make them for Federer? Run out too quick?
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
From what I know they are slicker than retail shoes for easier sliding plus they have a custom fit for Roger's foot. Yeah, probably not the right thing for the rec market.
 
It's all about profit. Federer's shoes cost too much to make. I ask that question many times. The shoes would cost us $300 because of the technology in his shoes.
It’s all marketing. Technically no shoes will cost you 300usd based on a pair of shoes actually cost less than 50 bucks to make lol


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XFactorer

Hall of Fame
He's using the same outsole from the Vapor Speeds. From my little insider knowledge, Fed prefers that traction and the sound level it makes when he slides.
 

Arti

Professional
I mean like he hasn’t used a retail shoe in years, so I don’t see why he would change now. His custom outsole is extremely wide anyway, If it came out in retail it would be very uncomfortable for everyone who doesn’t have a similar footshape
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
It's all about profit. Federer's shoes cost too much to make. I ask that question many times. The shoes would cost us $300 because of the technology in his shoes.
$300 for carbon shank, low to the ground, ultra stable and flexible but no squishy feel and moderate cushionung is actually an OK price.

:cool:
 

kimguroo

Legend
Producing shoes won’t be $300 but Nike can sell $300 for exact replica Federer shoes.
3000 limited edition pairs. Will sell out quickly and that will be at least $600000 profit.
I was expected that fed wears old outsole. Hope X won’t be next vapor 7 and 8.
 

John

Rookie
Roger is risking his career by not saying no to new dump Nike gears. I won’t be surprised if he can’t make to quarter final in AO18 unless he switch back old Nike gear.
 

John

Rookie
Nike stock price went from $52 to $62+ in 2017, but the quality....material getting cheap, color getting insane, design getting backward. Price per product get up while market share get lower. These are facts....
Now let’s look at the 2018 spring season.... retiring market accepted models for new design....for example, in shoe section, entire product line got replaced.a wiser man would only replace one at a time.
For cloth, roger and Rafa got cheaper wear.
Of course, in reality, they don’t and never wear retail line at all. They not only wear custom shoes, all their cloth are custom made as well....but for the public, they pay more and getting less.
My words are not entirely true... but it’s my way to express my dissatisfaction.
 

kimguroo

Legend
Nike stock price went from $52 to $62+ in 2017, but the quality....material getting cheap, color getting insane, design getting backward. Price per product get up while market share get lower. These are facts....
Now let’s look at the 2018 spring season.... retiring market accepted models for new design....for example, in shoe section, entire product line got replaced.a wiser man would only replace one at a time.
For cloth, roger and Rafa got cheaper wear.
Of course, in reality, they don’t and never wear retail line at all. They not only wear custom shoes, all their cloth are custom made as well....but for the public, they pay more and getting less.
My words are not entirely true... but it’s my way to express my dissatisfaction.
It’s very tricky business or marketing.
There is no way Nike offers customized products to general customers.
Pros need or prefer customized products in order to boost their performances.
Adopting those ideas of customizations are Nike’s decision though.

There were pro exclusive wristbands a few years ago. People screaming to get those items (prices were $20-100 per a pair at auction site) or demanding to release. As soon as Nike used same materials as pro’s exclusive wristbands.
Somewhat reason, demanding of wristbands are significantly down.

It’s true that Nike is still number one company and making many innovative products but Tennis divisions are struggling comparing to other divisions in my opinion because of lack of design and new ideas.
They should go back to beginning instead of ridiculous colors, sizing, strange design ideas etc...
Seems like those who design Tennis items, they have no idea on Tennis.
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
It has to be the chicken first. Chicken may not first come from egg but chicken egg must come from hen.
Chickens are descendants of the dinosaurs;dinosaurs laid eggs; eggs came well before chickens. The real question is which came first, the dinosaur or the egg?;)
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
Don't understand the obsession you guys have for the carbon fiber shank
Yes. Especially since it's fake and (while it is cool looking) faces the ground. I've worked in Aerospace and Automotive - it would cost quite a bit to make those shanks out of carbon fiber - for very minimal performance advantage (if they were carbon fiber AND provided Fed with an advantage, Adidas and UA pros would be demanding it too - Nike doesn't own it).

He does this for a living. Expecting him to change every time Nike modifies the design is not realistic. Not a big deal; try the X's - you'll either like them (and justify the price) or not.
 

John

Rookie
It’s very tricky business or marketing.
There is no way Nike offers customized products to general customers.
Pros need or prefer customized products in order to boost their performances.
Adopting those ideas of customizations are Nike’s decision though.

There were pro exclusive wristbands a few years ago. People screaming to get those items (prices were $20-100 per a pair at auction site) or demanding to release. As soon as Nike used same materials as pro’s exclusive wristbands.
Somewhat reason, demanding of wristbands are significantly down.

It’s true that Nike is still number one company and making many innovative products but Tennis divisions are struggling comparing to other divisions in my opinion because of lack of design and new ideas.
They should go back to beginning instead of ridiculous colors, sizing, strange design ideas etc...
Seems like those who design Tennis items, they have no idea on Tennis.
Agassi was wearing a short jean on grand slam and he also had borrowed a friendly fan’s shoes in mid match because he was way too poor to have a spare one at that time. A great player don’t rely on pro gear. But the ATP and manufacture made them no choice.... possibly gear are made with worsen performance than retail version at that time frame.

Personally I think wrist band is ok as is now. But I really love to see better head band and better band inside a cap. I can’t keep up the sweating coming to my face especially if I look down. I am curious how nadal never change his head band in a match despite his sweat always rain down at each serve.

We had diverged too far from the original rule....all white....we are not focus on cutting and high quality material.
Nike should not try to chase after adidas and try to make Tennis a fashion business...we want elegance not fashion.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes. Especially since it's fake and (while it is cool looking) faces the ground. I've worked in Aerospace and Automotive - it would cost quite a bit to make those shanks out of carbon fiber - for very minimal performance advantage (if they were carbon fiber AND provided Fed with an advantage, Adidas and UA pros would be demanding it too - Nike doesn't own it).

He does this for a living. Expecting him to change every time Nike modifies the design is not realistic. Not a big deal; try the X's - you'll either like them (and justify the price) or not.
It is a real carbon fiber and it doesn't cost a lot to produce (well, relatively speaking).

Carbon fiber used for the right application provides some very cool features like being light, stiff and works as a vibration dampener and has a flex that can be basically tuned like a suspension, depending on the weave, layers layout and amount of layers.

It really can make a difference in the way something is felt (and/or works).

:cool:
 

FedLIKEnot

Professional
Agassi was wearing a short jean on grand slam and he also had borrowed a friendly fan’s shoes in mid match because he was way too poor to have a spare one at that time. A great player don’t rely on pro gear. But the ATP and manufacture made them no choice.... possibly gear are made with worsen performance than retail version at that time frame.

Personally I think wrist band is ok as is now. But I really love to see better head band and better band inside a cap. I can’t keep up the sweating coming to my face especially if I look down. I am curious how nadal never change his head band in a match despite his sweat always rain down at each serve.

We had diverged too far from the original rule....all white....we are not focus on cutting and high quality material.
Nike should not try to chase after adidas and try to make Tennis a fashion business...we want elegance not fashion.

I really think what has hurt Nike is instead of staying true to there DNA they copied other tennis companies policies. Nike along all their other sport have cutting edge designs and even color blocking on their product. That is how you create a revolutionary marathon shoe, incredible color blocking it is how you create a Air Jordan line and push the line with materials in your shoes and apparel. Yet with tennis they keep essentially a shoe in the Vapor 9 and 9.5 for what 5 years or so? And for what yes it is a successful shoe designed for the GOAT. Yet had this been any other line they wouldve developed the design cues and DNA of the shoe yearly or at least on a 16 month life cycle. Even way back when with Pete Sampras my personal fav where he never changed shoes Agassi was rotating through shoes yearly even merging training shoes with tennis soles to cross market and tap into the casual fan. These are things that drive revenue and in turn will breath new life into tennis for Nike. However they have Roger using the same shoe for half a decade, Rafa has worn essentially the same shirt and shorts minus minor embellishment tweaks for 3 to 4 years. And again this is the issue Nike doesnt do this in any other line. Even a sport like (US) football where they will keep and revisit cleat design they trade out materials and color blocking to keep the shoe fresh while building upon winning DNA. Enough of my mini rant but they would do well to revamp lines in their tennis footware start with a solid tech based sole and midsole foundation and work out the uppers for the unique needs of a Roger verses Grigor, and add in more tech for a Rafa verses Del Potro.
 

FedLIKEnot

Professional



Good comparison on Fed's vs retail shoe

Seems more inline with the retail model sans the shank than previous options. So I would say this is a net win and a plus that they offer a retail WIDE version too. All positive steps forward despite what some of us may think. Remember among the tennis playing world population us the message board ilk are the minority.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Seems more inline with the retail model sans the shank than previous options. So I would say this is a net win and a plus that they offer a retail WIDE version too. All positive steps forward despite what some of us may think. Remember among the tennis playing world population us the message board ilk are the minority.
How is it "more in line with the retail model", if the sole is the same as before?

Or are you talking about the wider option being closer to Federer's shoes (which it is)?

:cool:
 

mpournaras

Hall of Fame
How is it "more in line with the retail model", if the sole is the same as before?

Or are you talking about the wider option being closer to Federer's shoes (which it is)?

:cool:
The materials used and the cuts of the plastic are way closer to retail. Same with the tongue. Where ALL those used to be VERY different fro retail... now it only seems that the shank and outsole are the only different parts
 

FedLIKEnot

Professional
How is it "more in line with the retail model", if the sole is the same as before?

Or are you talking about the wider option being closer to Federer's shoes (which it is)?

:cool:
Ok so as was also said previously all that use to match was the upper treatment and even that was off as Roger had a different toe guard as at times different materials in the upper. Now the mid-sole is close, the upper is very close if not the same minus the RF logo and even the profile of the shoe is in line with the retail all of which is day and night from the previous version. Agreed however that the sole is still not even close but that never will be.....
 

John

Rookie
I saw Dimitrov wear a grey stylish vapor 9.5on Brisbane . Is he wearing a new color we never seem before or it’s just an old shoes?
 

Jmauer

Semi-Pro
About Rog’s shoe - you know there’s a design problem when Fed’s version, obviously tailor made for him, doesn’t look like it even fits the foot right. If you look at a picture of his shoe on the inside, the adaptive fit “fingers” stick out away from the shoe in a weird way...they don’t even wrap the foot.

Both sock and Bouchard began Hopman Cup with the X but went back to the 9.5.
 

gplracer

Hall of Fame
Before the Vapor 9 and 9.5 had a plastic shank in the middle to at least look like it was similar to the actual Federer shoe. Now the Vapor 10 does not even have that.
 

Jmauer

Semi-Pro
The word is that there is still a shank but it is different. I think it actually (from a design standpoint) think it was a bold choice to create a sole different than we have seen on a Tennis shoe (at least a hard court shoe). But it’s the upper, to me, that looks like a disaster. Again, all from a looks stand point, and if the shoe actually does outperform precious versions (I doubt it but we’ll see!) I wouldn’t mind wearing such an ugly shoe.
 

Rhino

Legend
I don't know why people care whether Federers shoe differs from the retail. Federer changes shoes after two or three matches. Do you really want to buy a pair of shoes that costs twice as much and only lasts for two or three matches? Of course not.

I like that his shoes are different. It gives us shoe geeks something to fuss over.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't know why people care whether Federers shoe differs from the retail. Federer changes shoes after two or three matches. Do you really want to buy a pair of shoes that costs twice as much and only lasts for two or three matches? Of course not.

I like that his shoes are different. It gives us shoe geeks something to fuss over.
Why would Federer shoes last two or three matches?

:cool:
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Durability is not the main concern when you get 5 or 6 free pairs per tournament. His toe guard is usually pretty bashed up after about 7 or 8 sets on hard court.
Yes, I get that (also, I saw your ( it was you with some?) Federer shoes).

I am thinking more along the lines that very few players would go as hard on their shoes as Federer is capable of going, and also that many people play on clay.

:cool:
 

SDN

Semi-Pro
In general it seems to me that only the sole is different from those in the store; the rest of the upper seems to me identical.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Federers custom version seems 'taller' somehow. Like there's more distance between the sole and the swoosh:

From this picture it is clear that the side/upper part is also not nearly the same as the retail model.

Look at the creasing occurring at the base of the penultimate and the ultimate "rib" from the support "structure" coming out from the sides.

If it was hard plastic like with the retail version, it would have broken off right there. Instead there is a creasing which suggests a rubber coated/ very thin film plastic coated flexible piece.

Also, the highest point of the sole at the heel ends at the split between the said two ribs, whereas on the commercial model it goes above the base in the middle of the last rib, which itself doesn't protrude as high on Federer's model , leaving the impression that there is a greater distance between the ground and the swoosh ( but it wouldn't surprise me, if the shoe is also a bit higher).

It also looks like the cushioned collar around the heel is not nearly as much on Federer's model compared with the commercial model.

:cool:
 
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mpournaras

Hall of Fame
Before the Vapor 9 and 9.5 had a plastic shank in the middle to at least look like it was similar to the actual Federer shoe. Now the Vapor 10 does not even have that.
Its a flippin shank. Its built in now and not exposed. Why do people want the exposed shank so damn much. I hear this brought up over and over lol
 

Jmauer

Semi-Pro
Permit me a little shank here, but I think Nike missed the boat by not putting a carbon fiber shank in the Vapor x Jordan. How expensive would that have been? Remember the Oscillate? That little detail in the vapor x jordan could have made the shoe very iconic.
 
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