Federer News

You know how putting all your eggs in one basket is foolhardy?

That's another thing that really stinks about this one.

We have so few options remaining for players to really, truly get behind.

Don't get me wrong; I like a number of players on the Tour. And I've beaten the drum big time for Zverev, in particular, as an example. Was fairly pumped for something big there.

But they all went in the toilet! And they're not clutch! They just don't work hard enough or something.

All of the supreme athletes went to other sports.

Blows.
 

vex

Hall of Fame
Relax guys, today really means that even if Djoker manages to pass Fed’s slam count (unlikely) Fed was right there with his step be step even at 38. No matter what happens, even if Djoker some hoe reaches 21, 22, whatever, Fed will be a co-GOAT to anyone who watches these matches.

Most likely Fed’s slam count will hold up anyway and speak for jtslelf
 

MLM

Rookie
Some reflections;

Personally, a big win sorts everything out for me and I’ve only just realised it.

The two toughest losses I’ve experienced as a fan have been in golf — Jordan Spieth at the 2016 Masters and Tiger Woods at the 2018 Open (not helped by Spieth also throwing that one away). I happened to be on the grounds for both tournaments which made it both worse and better, better because of the awesome experience which will overshadow the tournament but worse because of having to be right there for the loss.

The 2016 Masters stung for a long time until one of the greatest performances ever at the 2017 Open (I won’t bore you with details) and while it still hurts that he hasn’t got the second Masters he deserves it’s still so much easier. The same can be said of Tiger after the Masters win this year.

The way I see it Roger needs a big win fairly soon but as others have pointed out; another slam is possible but unrealistic. So for me, the WTF is beckoning — no it wouldn’t be enough but I feel like he still has something else left in him.

I’m young and as such I naturally get more into sports and living vicariously through player’s wins and losses — I’d like to think I’m self aware enough to control it, enjoy it and not care what others think about it. However, the best thing about being young is having being shielded from so many losses that have stayed with the long-term fans and now for my tennis journey;

I don’t think I have ever admitted this before but I have only been watching tennis since 2017 (I watched Murray’s Wimbledons) I was on holiday in Spain and got a cold so I spent all day on the sofa watching Wimbledon, I saw Murray vs Brown, Nadal vs Young, Sela vs Isner (I think), Murray vs Fognini and some others which don’t stick out in my head. I remember googling who won after I came back and saw Federer had done it — I couldn’t care less.

A few weeks later I found myself watching highlights of the Washington final and then Federer in Montreal and the next thing I knew I was hooked and I can remeber waking up to see Shapovalov beating Nadal and Kyrgios a week later. In my impatience to watch the US Open I decided to catch up on the history of the game and I must have watched just about every famous match or highlights of it in that week while constantly being on Wikipedia looking up players and tournaments, I remember watching tennis channel’s top 100 tennis players and thinking it was gospel.

I decided I was a FedFan pretty quickly but was open to the idea that he wasn’t the GOAT. I woke up after the first night of the US Open to see Roger had been taken to five and I proceeded to watch him take five more to close out Youzhny. I was very concerned, especially considering that I didn’t know he was injured: I somehow missed that in my research. I remember watching him throw away a set vs del Potro at about 3:00 AM and lose that match...

Anyway, I might continue my tennis biography in the unlikely event anyone cares but I’m tired and need to get to the point. I’ve watched the 08 Wimbledon final and AO 09 and the rest of them as well as just about every triumph and while I totally get why they all sucked for Federer and his fans I pretty much had happy moments of Federer and felt that it had all worked out in the end — even AO 17 felt closely enough connected to my experience. This one is obviously different and will hurt and I can’t imagine what it’s like to still be carrying Wimbledon 14, 15 and US Open 15 on your shoulders on top of it.

So I make two suggestions (to those who take these things hard like me); (1) go watch the GOAT play amazing tennis on YouTube or (2) rekindle your interest in something or find something new. I needed tennis in my life when it first arrived for personal reasons mostly because it gave me something new to love and learn about and there was an ocean of things to consume when I really needed something like that.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
I'm not okay with either of them going ahead in major titles count.

We can rationalize it away until the cows come home, but losing that and weeks at number one would be a bitter pill to swallow.

I'm gonna keep hoping that there are enough C-level, some-time talents to keep them at bay by knocking them out periodically. Help a GOAT out, will ye?
The slam count is what matters. But Novak is still some way away. Let us hope Tsitsipas, Zverev and Thiem break through. It is absolutely unfathomable that the big 3 have won the last 11 majors. Even Murray may have bagged one if healthy. The nextgen is so so disappointing.
 

oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
Where is @oldmanfan when you need him
Dat.was.ruff.
No doubt.

Do remember that some of us were worried that Fedr might lose to Berrettini or Nadl before those matches. That's how unconfident some of us were about his chances for winning WB19. But besides the obvious disappointment of not winning the title today, there are plenty of positives Fedr can take from this match (and tourney), as he alluded to in press.

Some Fedr positives this WB19:
1) I actually had Fedr as an 45-55 underdog against Nadl, but he won convincingly in 4.
2) I had Fedr as a slight underdog 49-51 against Djokr based on form (and Djokr's caliber) going into the finals, but Fedr was the better player over the world #1 throughout. In context, that is HUGE. He just didn't win the last point, which sux, but it is what it is. Also of note, Djokr was first to be up a break in the 5th. Had Djokr lost, one could say that he let the match slip away. Of course the flip side is, Fedr could've won in straights if he sneaked the TBs in sets 1&3. Fedr also could've lost 6-3 in the 5th after going down the early break, but he fought back like a lion, had 2MPs, couldn't convert, and STILL pushed the world's best to the brink for another 15+ games. That shows heart.
3) Now, Fedr KNOWS he is at least tied with the best player in the world, maybe even better. Just no slams yet, which is unfortunate to say the least.

Trophies are great, as they should be, but context matters. Look at it this way: I was telling a relative yesterday that if Fedr wins WB19, to me he'll be the best player in the world thru WB19. If he loses, he's the 3rd best behind Djokr/Nadl (mainly bc of no slam title yet). Well, he was the much better player today, and was 'actually' 1 point from winning it. The stats will say Fedr lost (suggesting that he's the worse player), but that's just a result of tennis' poor scoring system. How many other sports have the winner as the player winning 15 less points? In basketball/baseball/football/soccer/etc. you only need to win one more point than the opponent to be the winner. It is what it is, but context is important, and Fedr is still great and was actually the better player today. Again, it sux, but not winning that point won't negate all of the great work he's done this year.

I've said before that losing while close will always trump get blown out of the water. The disappointment may be higher, but Fedr plays to try and win, not to lose easily. Bc that will signal that the end is near. As fans, some prefer that he loses without drama, but that's a bit selfish on our part. Fedr plays to try to win. He now KNOWS that he can still win, against anybody. So being close to winning is always better than not having a chance at all. He'd retire if he feels he has no chance. Tennis-wise, the only 2 players ahead of him in the rankings don't have much over him, if at all. His game is in a great place. He had real chances today, just one point away on his racquet. In fact, he was the better player. If he has perspectives (which I know he does), he'll pick himself up and move on. Of course he'll feel down from this. He's only human (this is true!).

As fans, we should take the positive in knowing that he won't be retiring anytime soon when he's still this good. It's already 7.5 months in, he's won 3 titles and has lost only 5 matches, all to good/great players (Nadl, Djokr, Tsitsi, Thiem x2). Fedr will be fine ;).
 

Rogfan

Semi-Pro
I’m really disappointed but not necessarily shocked to read some fans have jumped ship. Shame on these people. How it takes years for you to realise you’re purely a glory hunter is beyond me. Of course a win would have made me so much happier but I feel nothing but proud of the great man. No one expected him to come so close. Remember we said we wanted nothing else after AO17. Yet some people wanted more and more, the moment our champ came slightly short because he was playing another ATG who didn’t give a inch in those big points, they trashed him, they spat on him and abandoned him. For me this is more disappointing than the match, particularly when you just woke up after four hours of sleep, came here hoping for support and comfort. Those of you don’t deserve to ever call yourself a Fed fan. Thanks to those who continue to support him and believe in him here. For some reason I’m handling this loss much better than 2014 and 2015. Roger has already given me too much joy since that. I believe he is leaving Wimbledon holding his head high too, way far from those who believe he’ll be crushed.

Btw where is @oldmanfan? I’m a bit worried about him...


Edit: so glad to see you posted just when I was typing!
 

oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
I’m really disappointed but not necessarily shocked to read some fans have jumped ship. Shame on these people. How it takes years for you to realise you’re purely a glory hunter is beyond me. Of course a win would have made me so much happier but I feel nothing but proud of the great man. No one expected him to come so close. Remember we said we wanted nothing else after AO17. Yet some people wanted more and more, the moment our champ came slightly short because he was playing another ATG who didn’t give a inch in those big points, they trashed him, they spat on him and abandoned him. For me this is more disappointing than the match, particularly when you just woke up after four hours of sleep, came here hoping for support and comfort. Those of you don’t deserve to ever call yourself a Fed fan. Thanks to those who continue to support him and believe in him here. For some reason I’m handling this loss much better than 2014 and 2015. Roger has already given me too much joy since that. I believe he is leaving Wimbledon holding his head high too, way far from those who believe he’ll be crushed.

Btw where is @oldmanfan? I’m a bit worried about him...


Edit: so glad to see you posted just when I was typing!
Thx for your thoughts! I was a bit tied up, is all. This one hurts, but The Old Man did us proud. The better player on the day doesn't always win. Today was such a day. But with Fedr in this form, who is to say a USO19 win isn't realistic?

We sometimes want Fedr to win it all, but if we could choose only ONE win between WB19 or USO19, which would we choose? It's a tuffie. WB19 might edge it a bit for me since Fedr likes it so. OTOH, another USO would make him GOAT there. So, if Fedr really would only win one, USO19 instead of WB19 ain't too shabby ;).
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
I’m really disappointed but not necessarily shocked to read some fans have jumped ship. Shame on these people. How it takes years for you to realise you’re purely a glory hunter is beyond me. Of course a win would have made me so much happier but I feel nothing but proud of the great man. No one expected him to come so close. !
Well said. Most brutal loss ever, but those who said they'd never watch another Fed match or hate him or all that... well, maybe they were never fans of Fed to begin with? I said after AO 2017 that I would never complain again if he lost a slam final and I've tried to abide by that. He's 38, it's all gravy by now. Everything in life is taking the good with the bad, whether it's in school, a career, a marriage or anything else. Roger's given us amazing highs, and today was a brutal low. But usually, it all balances out. He'll come back and win more events and will remind us why we love him so.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Fed looked like he was about to cry. He was destroyed. Barely managed a smile.

I know Hitman said “I’m sure he’s winning one more”. It’s the typical cliche statement, despite being well-meaning. I just cannot see it after this. This was his ‘one more’

Worst defeat of his career. Wish I didn’t watch this monstrosity of a match.
Not the first time he suffered a devastating loss in his career. The guy has had many of them.

Fed is IMO the penultimate glass is half full guy, he'll definitely be down mentally for a while but also take some confidence from being a point away from being Djokodal back-to-back in a slam.

Call me a foolish optimist but I believe Fed bounces back from this, I truly do.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Not the first time he suffered a devastating loss in his career. The guy has had many of them.

Fed is IMO the penultimate glass is half full guy, he'll definitely be down mentally for a while but also take some confidence from being a point away from being Djokodal back-to-back in a slam.

Call me a foolish optimist but I believe Fed bounces back from this, I truly do.
Bouncing back means he wins another major. does he have a good chance of doing that if novak stays healthy ?
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Well said. Most brutal loss ever, but those who said they'd never watch another Fed match or hate him or all that... well, maybe they were never fans of Fed to begin with? I said after AO 2017 that I would never complain again if he lost a slam final and I've tried to abide by that. He's 38, it's all gravy by now. Everything in life is taking the good with the bad, whether it's in school, a career, a marriage or anything else. Roger's given us amazing highs, and today was a brutal low. But usually, it all balances out. He'll come back and win more events and will remind us why we love him so.
Pretty much, you gotta take good with the bad, it's a cliche but that doesn't make it any less true.

What about people who were say Ivanisevic fans? Or Murray fans? Or Safin, Nalbo etc. etc. it's an emotional investment that doesn't always pay off but it's rewarding when it does.

At the end of the day Fed still plays the most beautiful tennis for me on tour, I love it when his game gets rewarded with a big title but I'm not gonna quit on him when it doesn't.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Bouncing back means he wins another major. does he have a good chance of doing that if novak stays healthy ?
There are no guarantees in the sport, tennis landscape can change quick;y. Novak might suffer another dip in form or someone might take him out or maybe even Fed finds some inner belief agains him again on the big stages (as unlikely as that may seem to people right now).

My gut instinct says Fed has one more slam in him, that's what I believe.
 
="zagor, post: 13562608, member: 24206"]Not the first time he suffered a devastating loss in his career. The guy has had many of them.

Fed is IMO the penultimate glass is half full guy, he'll definitely be down mentally for a while but also take some confidence from being a point away from being Djokodal back-to-back in a slam.

Call me a foolish optimist but I believe Fed bounces back from this, I truly do.
I am vacillating from thinking he will come back stronger to his rich vein of form just dissipating for the rest of the year. Hoping he does well in NY. Excelsior!!
 

AceSalvo

Legend
Thx for your thoughts! I was a bit tied up, is all. This one hurts, but The Old Man did us proud. The better player on the day doesn't always win. Today was such a day. But with Fedr in this form, who is to say a USO19 win isn't realistic?

We sometimes want Fedr to win it all, but if we could choose only ONE win between WB19 or USO19, which would we choose? It's a tuffie. WB19 might edge it a bit for me since Fedr likes it so. OTOH, another USO would make him GOAT there. So, if Fedr really would only win one, USO19 instead of WB19 ain't too shabby ;).
Keeping hopes for USO19 is all good. If nothing transpires there then this loss would sting for a while since it could very well be the last slam final he ever played. But like you said he gave it his best shot and stretched it to 12-12.

For a 38 yr old man, cmon, thats a magnificent finish against another ATG.
 

oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
There are no guarantees in the sport, tennis landscape can change quick;y. Novak might suffer another dip in form or someone might take him out or maybe even Fed finds some inner belief agains him again on the big stages (as unlikely as that may seem to people right now).

My gut instinct says Fed has one more slam in him, that's what I believe.
Years ago, I thought he'd end his career with 19. After AO17, I changed the target to 22. He was 1 point away today for 21. I won't give a % of reaching 22 yet, but I think it's definitely still very possible, and he 'may' just go beyond 22 (a relative of mines thinks Fedr ends with 23).

Since last year's WB18, I've always thought that Djokr was pretty good, but definitely not as good as many were saying. His results were deceptive since WB18 when looking at his form. He was having trouble in multiple matches in many tournies, including at the USO18, so much so that I was a bit annoyed at how underwhelming Delpo performed in finals. What a meek Delpo performance when the match should've been close to 50/50.

I felt I wasn't far off in thinking Djokr's form wasn't stellar like many thought when noFH/noROS-Fedr was a break up in set2 of Cinci18 finals to take it the distance (Fedr was terrible all tournament, yet Djokr barely put him away). I felt even more justified when Djokr barely scraped past an exhausted still-injured Fedr at Bercy18, winning 2 TBs. Many were surprised when Djokr lost the WTF18 finals, but they shouldn't be bc he wasn't anywhere near his 2015 form. The AO19 finals result was surprising, but moreso bc Nadl just never really showed up. Djokr was good, but Nadl was terrible. Then we see how Djokr did from IW19 through WB19. Had he been dominating as some believed, he wouldn't be losing those matches the way he did nor losing sets so often. Today proved it even further by Djokr being completely outplayed by a ~38 yr old. Had Fedr been a bit better on serve, straight sets was possible today.

So... I still think 22 is possible, maybe even more... :)
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Years ago, I thought he'd end his career with 19. After AO17, I changed the target to 22. He was 1 point away today for 21. I won't give a % of reaching 22 yet, but I think it's definitely still very possible, and he 'may' just go beyond 22 (a relative of mines thinks Fedr ends with 23).

Since last year's WB18, I've always thought that Djokr was pretty good, but definitely not as good as many were saying. His results were deceptive since WB18 when looking at his form. He was having trouble in multiple matches in many tournies, including at the USO18, so much so that I was a bit annoyed at how underwhelming Delpo performed in finals. What a meek Delpo performance when the match should've been close to 50/50.

I felt I wasn't far off in thinking Djokr's form wasn't stellar like many thought when noFH/noROS-Fedr was a break up in set2 of Cinci18 finals to take it the distance (Fedr was terrible all tournament, yet Djokr barely put him away). I felt even more justified when Djokr barely scraped past an exhausted still-injured Fedr at Bercy18, winning 2 TBs. Many were surprised when Djokr lost the WTF18 finals, but they shouldn't be bc he wasn't anywhere near his 2015 form. The AO19 finals result was surprising, but moreso bc Nadl just never really showed up. Djokr was good, but Nadl was terrible. Then we see how Djokr did from IW19 through WB19. Had he been dominating as some believed, he wouldn't be losing those matches the way he did nor losing sets so often. Today proved it even further by Djokr being completely outplayed by a ~38 yr old. Had Fedr been a bit better on serve, straight sets was possible today.

So... I still think 22 is possible, maybe even more... :)
I agree that Novak is showing some cracks and is winning more on mental edge than on great play but the other side of the coin here is whether Fed will maintain his current high form? I think he can. He's almost 38 but he's not a normal 38 year old. He was a beast physically this tourney (his stamina and movement) and his serve is still lethal. As long as the motivation is still there I think Fed can keep battling Father Time for some time more.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
I think the 3 majors won in 2017-18 has kind of softened this loss. Imagine if he had not got those and this was his run for that long elusive 18th slam ?

If Fed can play at this level he just has to get lucky once . Take Djoker out somehow or the draw to pan out. He tried so much during the 2014-16 period. He has to have belief and tell himself that he is not going to retire until 40+. Even if there is an injury, he just has to say he will take his time out and come back. There may be the frequent losses at ATP events, but who cares ?
 

oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
Keeping hopes for USO19 is all good. If nothing transpires there then this loss would sting for a while since it could very well be the last slam final he ever played. But like you said he gave it his best shot and stretched it to 12-12.

For a 38 yr old man, cmon, thats a magnificent finish against another ATG.
The Old Man was magnificent today, no doubt!

Pre-match, I thought Fedr was in better form, but I gave the edge of 51-49 to Djokr bc he's Djokr. It turns out that Fedr completely outperformed what I thought, being the better player on the day without a doubt. Not winning 1 of the 2 MPs was the only blemish. Yes, it's a big blemish, but looking forward, Fedr is in great position to keep doing well. Also, Djokr won't always be there and won't always be this clutch/lucky when he is there.

Many thought Djokr was the overwhelming favorite to win WB19, but he barely scraped by while pulling multiple rabbits out of the hat against the ~38 yr old.

Keep calm and Fedr.
He'll be fine.
He 'can' play even better.
He'll keep winning.
And the 'R' word is still very far away. :giggle:
 

oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
I agree that Novak is showing some cracks and is winning more on mental edge than on great play but the other side of the coin here is whether Fed will maintain his current high form? I think he can. He's almost 38 but he's not a normal 38 year old. He was a beast physically this tourney (his stamina and movement) and his serve is still lethal. As long as the motivation is still there I think Fed can keep battling Father Time for some time more.
Oh, absolutely!

His play/movement against Nadl was unreal! I had Nadl as a 60-40 favorite pre-match, but man, Nadl didn't have much of a chance besides that set2 Fedr walkabout (strategic after going down a break? bc Fedr was just hitting wildly towards the end of set2). Fedr really should've won sets 3&4 by double breaks. Fedr's play was crazy good, way beyond what I predicted after seeing his play in the first 5 rounds.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
I agree that Novak is showing some cracks and is winning more on mental edge than on great play but the other side of the coin here is whether Fed will maintain his current high form? I think he can. He's almost 38 but he's not a normal 38 year old. He was a beast physically this tourney (his stamina and movement) and his serve is still lethal. As long as the motivation is still there I think Fed can keep battling Father Time for some time more.
i hope and for me its not about hte slam race (okay i lie im a petty fed fan who wants him to get all teh records if possible) but it sucks that he always comes up close but doesnt get over the hill and unlike in 2014/2015 he even had freaking CPs. HE EVEN HAD A BETTER BP CONVERSATION RATE, WHEN DOES THAT HAPPEN, NEVER?! it just sucks when he plays well and isn't rewarded and no shade to novak who deserves the win. also the next gen do squat they take the old man out and then do jack **** against the top 2 players.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
i hope and for me its not about hte slam race (okay i lie im a petty fed fan who wants him to get all teh records if possible) but it sucks that he always comes up close but doesnt get over the hill and unlike in 2014/2015 he even had freaking CPs. HE EVEN HAD A BETTER BP CONVERSATION RATE, WHEN DOES THAT HAPPEN, NEVER?! it just sucks when he plays well and isn't rewarded and no shade to novak who deserves the win. also the next gen do squat they take the old man out and then do jack **** against the top 2 players.
I definitely get the frustration about the next-gen players (not just because of Fed either, it's not healthy for the game), 38 year old should be doing their job for them but it's the state of the tour unfortunately.

I'd say maybe some of the will finally get their act together next year but we've been saying that for years now, it's like a broken record at this point.

Pretty sure it's annoying Fed too, lol. He actually never had a period where he wasn't beset by young guns except arguably 2004 (but that was a pretty strong year otherwise).
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
I definitely get the frustration about the next-gen players (not just because of Fed either, it's not healthy for the game), 38 year old should be doing their job for them but it's the state of the tour unfortunately.

I'd say maybe some of the will finally get their act together next year but we've been saying that for years now, it's like a broken record at this point.

Pretty sure it's annoying Fed too, lol. He actually never had a period where he wasn't beset by young guns except arguably 2004 (but that was a pretty strong year otherwise).
i mean i'm happy fed is still around no doubt, but really how is a 38 year old (idc how amazing he is i know fed is special) but how are the top 3 players like the same from 10 years ago but just in a different order? i know i sound like a broken record but i firmly believe surface homogenization has contributed to this. You can see these 3 are teh greatest players to ever play which may be true but even the so called weak era of roddick/hewitt safin etc took it to the the generation before them, heck fed didn't even start out the best since he was a late bloomer. i know you blame social media, imo that isn't the issue because i do see some of them train hard and imo social media can be used for good too but that is besides teh point. imo it is os hard to break through when you have variety and why bother teaching kids variety when they are comfortable hitting from behind the baseline as hard as possible. why bother teaching them to come up to the net or do something different, when you can be rallying for days on end even on so called faster surfaces. 45 shot rallies on wimbledon is just nope, that is not it and as a result these kids are imo not being taught to play with any type of variety and well therefore flopping.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
I definitely get the frustration about the next-gen players (not just because of Fed either, it's not healthy for the game), 38 year old should be doing their job for them but it's the state of the tour unfortunately.

I'd say maybe some of the will finally get their act together next year but we've been saying that for years now, it's like a broken record at this point.

Pretty sure it's annoying Fed too, lol. He actually never had a period where he wasn't beset by young guns except arguably 2004 (but that was a pretty strong year otherwise).
i also fully realize i am a hypocrite because iw ould have much rather taken a crying blistered cilic again if it meant fed held the trophy. idec these long heart breakers and then they always go down as the greatest matches ever and im like ughhh why must fed be on the losing end of these
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
i mean i'm happy fed is still around no doubt, but really how is a 38 year old (idc how amazing he is i know fed is special) but how are the top 3 players like the same from 10 years ago but just in a different order? i know i sound like a broken record but i firmly believe surface homogenization has contributed to this. You can see these 3 are teh greatest players to ever play which may be true but even the so called weak era of roddick/hewitt safin etc took it to the the generation before them, heck fed didn't even start out the best since he was a late bloomer. i know you blame social media, imo that isn't the issue because i do see some of them train hard and imo social media can be used for good too but that is besides teh point. imo it is os hard to break through when you have variety and why bother teaching kids variety when they are comfortable hitting from behind the baseline as hard as possible. why bother teaching them to come up to the net or do something different, when you can be rallying for days on end even on so called faster surfaces. 45 shot rallies on wimbledon is just nope, that is not it and as a result these kids are imo not being taught to play with any type of variety and well therefore flopping.
Yeah, it's definitely a combination of factors that brought ATP to this sorry state. Homogenization of the surfaces, tennis academies (which are heavily influenced by it) that churn out baseline clones with loopy strokes and no court sense, maybe other sports doing a better job of attracting elite athletes etc.

Yeah, I may rag on social media too much but I do believe that overexposure to it leads to shorter attention span which can be a big handicap in a sport like tennis.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
The way I see it Roger needs a big win fairly soon but as others have pointed out; another slam is possible but unrealistic. So for me, the WTF is beckoning — no it wouldn’t be enough but I feel like he still has something else left in him.
I see it different. Federer doesn't need anything anytime soon. Everything since about 2014 has been gravy on a GOAT career. Every loss to the guys 5 years younger who are still in their prime means nothing since what he's doing now is so unexpected. But every special win - even if it's not a final, such as the Nadal semifinal - is one more stone cementing him as the GOAT.

At the 2012 Wimbledon he beat the best two players on tour (Djokovic then Murray)... and most considered it his last hurrah. 2017 Aussie Open he became the first player to beat 4 top 10 players at a majors in 35 years (Matts Wilander '82 French Open). It would have been 5 if Murray wasn't such a mug in losing to M Zverev.

To win the 2017 AO doing the above, and to then back it up winning Wimbledon and then the Aussie Open again in 2018 is just some fantasy stuff which blurs what should be a clear twilight period for any athlete in such a physically demanding sport. So, to beat Nadal here and shut a whole lot of people up, and then lose deep in the 5th to the clear best player of the last 5 years is no great disappointment to me at all. Nor a surprise. In fact, him getting past Nadal was bigger GOAT-related significance to me that him having lost in the final.
 
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Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
Anyone else worried that Roger picked up an injury during the clay? I remember back in Miami he was firing on all cylinders and in the grass season, the forehand lacked sting. I wonder if the hand injury is back. I'm actually more worried about that than anything I saw with the backhand today. I noticed a lot of pushy forehands and not many fearhands.
Plenty of fear hands in the first few hours, one of the reasons he was kicking Djokovic’s ass in patches.
But they dropped off and became noticeably loopier and more ragged in the last few games in particular.
No injury, the guy is 37 and went toe to toe for 5 hours. Injury is the last thing to be concerned with here!
 

Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
I'm starting to feel a bit better about it all. Not fully recovered yet, but I will be.
It's crazy how a man hitting a yellow ball over a net can make us feel so many emotions.
Me too. By the end of today i’ll probably of stopped thinking about it.
The beauty of watching great sport. If you tried to erase that 5 hours from my life, even now I wouldn’t want you to.
To borrow a well known posters phrase, it was indeed epic.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Plenty of fear hands in the first few hours, one of the reasons he was kicking Djokovic’s ass in patches.
But they dropped off and became noticeably loopier and more ragged in the last few games in particular.
No injury, the guy is 37 and went toe to toe for 5 hours. Injury is the last thing to be concerned with here!
Exactly. The number of UE, especially from his FH creeped up at the tail end of that match. Either loopier, or not enough on the slices. People say how Federer could have played more, but really, one has to be a more careful observant to see that Federer's game was slowly deteriorating (it would have been abnormal if it didn't).

:cool:
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Exactly. The number of UE, especially from his FH creeped up at the tail end of that match. Either loopier, or not enough on the slices. People say how Federer could have played more, but really, one has to be a more careful observant to see that Federer's game was slowly deteriorating (it would have been abnormal if it didn't
His forehand errors are the key that he'd given it a lot in his Nadal match. He made 52 forehand errors vs Djokovic and, notably, three in the first set tie-break alone which probably cost him the breaker. That many errors for just 18 forehand winners - an almost 3:1 ratio is unacceptable (vs the Nadal match where the ratio was closer to 1:1). Those loopier forehands which kept landing short and giving DJokovic what he liked were the result of Fed trying to find his range and not finding a rhythm like he usually would in 19 out of 20 matches eventually.

Djokovic just played Federer to his backhand until he could hit a safe ball to Fed's forehand and time after time Fed just fed the ball into the net. Completely unlike the Nadal match. And Fed knew this which is why he was slicing crosscourt so much - to make it harder for Djokovic to get up and over the net with an inside-in forehand. And it worked too - he basically did variation of a Gilles Simon on Djokovic, denying him pace and height on his forehand. It almost worked too, esp on a court that was so hard to hit through.
 
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