Federer News

BGod

Legend
I don't take these losses too seriously because I expected Fed to lose once the match approached 4 hours.

The 2009 Wimbledon and 2017 AO were complete outliers. Even at 40-15 I stood up watching at a bar with friends and had immense reservation and once he blew the 2nd point I knew it was Novak's title.

To continue deluding ones self EXPECTING Roger to win such matches is just sad.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
I don't take these losses too seriously because I expected Fed to lose once the match approached 4 hours.

The 2009 Wimbledon and 2017 AO were complete outliers. Even at 40-15 I stood up watching at a bar with friends and had immense reservation and once he blew the 2nd point I knew it was Novak's title.

To continue deluding ones self EXPECTING Roger to win such matches is just sad.
I don't think anyone expected Fed to win ahead of the match or even at 4-4 in the final set. The belief came when Fed was serving at 8-7 and peaked at 8-7, 40-15. I don't think the belief completely went away until Novak saved the BP at 11-11.

Fed could have had a tough service game at 8-7 if he had not had those 2 aces and folks may not feel as much. The 3 points in succession with 2 aces and the 40-15 lead, after breaking Novak from 30-0 the previous game, which meant he had won 7 of the last 8 points. Tough to think he would lose 4 in succession at that time.
 

MeatTornado

Legend
Finally went back and watch the SF highlights with Nadal.

Match points #3 and 4 almost gave me a heart attack watching them. The serves were just like MP #2 vs Novak. Up the T with a HUGE area of margin. Clearly he was over-prioritizing just getting the first serve in. But it's still surprising for a guy known for his precision spot serving. #4 was particularly hard to watch because it was extremely similar. Poor serve, followed by a FH he had no business coming in on and then getting passed cross-court.

I'll maintain that the real crime wasn't blowing those 2 match points in the final, it's how he immediately got broken after them. Those 2 points weren't utter disasters or chokes, just a couple he got outplayed on. Once they got back to deuce, he should've clamped down and gone back to work and created another opportunity for himself.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Specific to this match , If Fed had dumped a sitter FH into the net or played a poor dropshot , we can say it was nerves.

When the serve is not perfectly placed, then Fed starts on an equal or inferior footing with Djokovic. We have to accept that. Fed is not as good as Djokovic for a long time in trading groundstrokes. It is not 2007-11 anymore.

I know he has blown so many CP and MP but you can save a lot if you are good at defending. Fed is highly reliant on serve and hence he has the problem in closing it out if his serve deserts him.
Yes, that is pretty much the situation. Everyone should be happy and remember that Federer is 38 in a couple of days. It is not like he DFted or simply stood there: he went for his shots and missed or asked hard questions and to Djokovic's credit, Djokovic answered.

:cool:
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
I did mention somewhere else that I rather have Fed win USO19 than Wimb19. Just can't find that post of mine. If the man does the right things again and is not injured, I think he still has a chance barring another Djoko face-off. Just can't predict how much this final took out of him. If the exhaustion lingers, then that's a double blow. Another USO would put him in the lead for 2 slams which would be a nice to have should anyone else get to 20.

From that point of view, USO 09 and 15 loss stings pretty bad. Especially USO 09, which would have given Fed 6 in a row at a slam. Would have become the only player to do that. Coincidentally, Fed lost the 1st TB in that match also. :oops:
USO is a lost cause. They have consistently been doing everything possible to prevent Federer from winning another one for the several years. I don't know the reason but their draws year after year cannot be a coincidence.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
I'm a big Fed fan, but he lost to Millman last year.
Not last year...check all draws and schedules in the last decade. Rigged Fed-Djoker semis when Nadal would get Gasquet and Youzhny in the semi and yet making Fed-Djoker play the second semi with less time to recover for the final...Also check individual draws for the big 4.
 
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zagor

Bionic Poster
If I was a VB member, I'd really be more concerned about Bull losing to a 38 year old semi retired weak era servebot on green British clay.

Fed has been living rent free in their heads since 2005.
It's okay, they just branched to Novak's nuts when Nadal failed to do what he was supposed to do. They already made like a dozen threads about Novak's victory.

It's hilarious how much it's about Fed for them, a player they despise.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Does anyone know a player that hasn't choked on a match point or two? Does anyone remember the 18 month span when DJoker couldn't beat his grandmother?

Good luck finding someone perfect to follow. Djoker's hot right now but if you jump on his bandwagon today don't break a leg jumping off in a couple of years.

BTW I'd just like to point out that Djoker is 6 years younger than Federer. Had they both been 32 on Sunday, Djoker would have been gone in 3 sets.

FEDERER IS GOAT. He's so GOAT I'm shocked his children don't have 4 legs.
Yep, 3 or 4 sets. It's what many know deep down but will never admit. That's why they have to chant "age doesn't count" in every 2nd post and glorify Fed's level of play.

If anything this match perfectly illustrated why I'll always consider Fed to be the best player of this era. Slower grass, Fed giving up 5-6 years and yet he still was a point away from beating Djokodal back-to-back in BO5.

Also talking about mental weakness, neither Novak nor Nadal ever faced such pressure in their whole careers as Fed did on Sunday. It's easier to be relaxed when you're well aware you have zero opposition from the younger crowd, no young lions chasing after you and your records.

The only one who showed a modicum of interest at challenging Djokodal atleast on one surface is Thiem, a CC specialist without a single CC masters title who managed to get one set off an aging Nadal combined in 3-4 FO meetings .
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Also talking about mental weakness, neither Novak nor Nadal ever faced such pressure in their whole careers as Fed did on Sunday.
McEnroe said in the booth as Roger stepped to the line to serve for the match, "well, folks, this is it. Funny as it sounds, this is without question, the most important game of Roger Federer's career."
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
McEnroe said in the booth as Roger stepped to the line to serve for the match, "well, folks, this is it. Funny as it sounds, this is without question, the most important game of Roger Federer's career."
That would have had more weight if McEnroe and other commies didn't repeat themselves in that regard. First it was the 2017 AO final, now it's this year's Wimbledon final etc. etc.

The most important game (well tiebreak) was the one Fed won against Scud in his first Wimbledon final, that opened the floodgates and kickstarted his caeer.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
Yep, 3 or 4 sets. It's what many know deep down but will never admit. That's why they have to chant "age doesn't count" in every 2nd post and glorify Fed's level of play.

If anything this match perfectly illustrated why I'll always consider Fed to be the best player of this era. Slower grass, Fed giving up 5-6 years and yet he still was a point away from beating Djokodal back-to-back in BO5.

Also talking about mental weakness, neither Novak nor Nadal ever faced such pressure in their whole careers as Fed did on Sunday. It's easier to be relaxed when you're well aware you have zero opposition from the younger crowd, no young lions chasing after you and your records.

The only one who showed a modicum of interest at challenging Djokodal atleast on one surface is Thiem, a CC specialist without a single CC masters title who managed to get one set off an aging Nadal combined in 3-4 FO meetings .
I never like the weak era argument when talking about who is greater than whom, you can only beat who is in front of you and unless you are winning your slams by retirement every round/cheating than they count. my bigger issue is when people pick and choose when to apply this weak era. Apparently 03-07 was the worst but this god forsaken era that we've had since maybe 2015 (yes that includes the glorious 2017 as happy as I am it was still pathetic), is apparently not, like either don't apply weak era or apply it to all situations.

I know we've discussed this before but I'm so tired of people making excuses for the lost gen/next gen w/e gen we are on all because we are witnessing possibly the greatest 3 players ever.

someone also discussed this during the match thread, and do you think that fed's mental weaknesses are more obvious because of how his game operates. Not to discredit the likes of djokodal because no doubt they, especially novak as of late are clutch as **** but someone did mention that because the margins are much smaller with fed it can be seen as him just not having the guts to either save bps or convert bps or w/e the case may be.
 
Yep, 3 or 4 sets. It's what many know deep down but will never admit. That's why they have to chant "age doesn't count" in every 2nd post and glorify Fed's level of play.

If anything this match perfectly illustrated why I'll always consider Fed to be the best player of this era. Slower grass, Fed giving up 5-6 years and yet he still was a point away from beating Djokodal back-to-back in BO5.

Also talking about mental weakness, neither Novak nor Nadal ever faced such pressure in their whole careers as Fed did on Sunday. It's easier to be relaxed when you're well aware you have zero opposition from the younger crowd, no young lions chasing after you and your records.

The only one who showed a modicum of interest at challenging Djokodal atleast on one surface is Thiem, a CC specialist without a single CC masters title who managed to get one set off an aging Nadal combined in 3-4 FO meetings .
Exactly what I think when people compare (something as arbitrarily defined as) mental strength in tennis/sports. All players have been in different conditions/situations such as their opponents so how can you compare different players 1:1 by mental strength?
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I never like the weak era argument when talking about who is greater than whom, you can only beat who is in front of you and unless you are winning your slams by retirement every round/cheating than they count. my bigger issue is when people pick and choose when to apply this weak era. Apparently 03-07 was the worst but this god forsaken era that we've had since maybe 2015 (yes that includes the glorious 2017 as happy as I am it was still pathetic), is apparently not, like either don't apply weak era or apply it to all situations.

I know we've discussed this before but I'm so tired of people making excuses for the lost gen/next gen w/e gen we are on all because we are witnessing possibly the greatest 3 players ever.
It's also funny how they trash Fed (mentally weak, overrated, weak era benefactor, choker, ballerina etc.) yet they don't realize what does that say about the current state of men's game and Djokodal opposiiton. Mentally weak, overrated 38 year old choker is still your main opposition? Oh boy.

That said, I also don't think that the big 3 are the greatest ever (among the greatest definitely but not on the pedestal above other ATGs). I think a lot of things fell into place for them to have this almost perverse level of domination. Don't think any of them would have replicated this success in any other era, though Fed would IMO come the closest. Homogenization of the surfaces and playing style, medical/nutritional advances that allowed them to play deep into their 30s, two failed young generations in a row etc. Tennis has turned into glorified WWE with stars being bigger than the game itself. There are consequences to that and as such the game is not in a healthy state, anyone not dazzled by the latest epic and adrenaline fix should be well aware of that.

I sincerely doubt that the 3 greatest players just happen to all coexist in the same era (more or less), that would be too big of a coincidence. I think today's conditions/game make a fertile ground for near unprecedented domination.

someone also discussed this during the match thread, and do you think that fed's mental weaknesses are more obvious because of how his game operates. Not to discredit the likes of djokodal because no doubt they, especially novak as of late are clutch as **** but someone did mention that because the margins are much smaller with fed it can be seen as him just not having the guts to either save bps or convert bps or w/e the case may be.
Yeah, people equate high % play with mental toughness which is of course nonsense. Executing a high enough level of offensive play to win big tourneys requires every bit as much mental strength (or even more since as you said, margin are slimmer), especially on today's surfaces which are in direct opposition with said style of play. The guy having to find lines to win a point has greater pressure than the guy that has a big edge just keeping the ball in play.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
That would have had more weight if McEnroe and other commies didn't repeat themselves in that regard. First it was the 2017 AO final, now it's this year's Wimbledon final etc. etc.

oh no, I can't say whether these are the best or not, that and I also admit my knowledge of past tennis greats is based on what I've read and managed to find via youtube clips, but I'm saying many use that as an excuse saying its difficult because we are witnessing the greatest 3 to have ever played and I'm like....no that's an excuse.
 

TearTheRoofOff

Hall of Fame
It's also funny how they trash Fed (mentally weak, overrated, weak era benefactor, choker, ballerina etc.) yet they don't realize what does that say about the current state of men's game and Djokodal opposiiton. Mentally weak, overrated 38 year old choker is still your main opposition? Oh boy.

That said, I also don't think that the big 3 are the greatest ever (among the greatest definitely but not on the pedestal above other ATGs). I think a lot of things fell into place for them to have this almost perverse level of domination. Don't think any of them would have replicated this success in any other era, though Fed would IMO come the closest. Homogenization of the surfaces and playing style, medical/nutritional advances that allowed them to play deep into their 30s, two failed young generations in a row etc. Tennis has turned into glorified WWE with stars being bigger than the game itself. There are consequences to that and as such the game is not in a healthy state, anyone not dazzled by the latest epic and adrenaline fix should be well aware of that.

I sincerely doubt that the 3 greatest players just happen to all coexist in the same era (more or less), that would be too big of a coincidence. I think today's conditions/game make a fertile ground for near unprecedented domination.



Yeah, people equate high % play with mental toughness which is of course nonsense. Executing a high enough level of offensive play to win big tourneys requires every bit as much mental strength (or even more since as you said, margin are slimmer), especially on today's surfaces which are in direct opposition with said style of play. The guy having to find lines to win a point has greater pressure than the guy that has a big edge just keeping the ball in play.
If I was going to feel nerves creep into my game, I'd want the most solid 'autopilot' game of anyone, and definitely not a game that more heavily relies on focus, precision, timing or creativity to win points. Those things can absolutely do one if I'm in the crunch.
 

NastyWinners

Professional
Apples and oranges.

BO5 at the USO, more heat and humidity in NYC in September than Miami in March. The USO is even slower than Miami and the chances of Fed meeting Isner in an USO final is about 1%.
BO5 yeah, bit different but if we're comparing climates. I'd much rather play NYC in September than Miami in Mar/Apr. Way muggier down there compared to NYC.

Court speed is subjective too since he just made the semi's on the French clay and the finals on the London har-tru ;) Court speed isn't an issue with Federer anymore, it's his mentality and how he's executing that matters.
 
BO5 yeah, bit different but if we're comparing climates. I'd much rather play NYC in September than Miami in Mar/Apr. Way muggier down there compared to NYC.

Court speed is subjective too since he just made the semi's on the French clay and the finals on the London har-tru ;) Court speed isn't an issue with Federer anymore, it's his mentality and how he's executing that matters.
AA Stadium is a death cauldron now, remember?



P.S. Anyone here think they've gotten their ventilation sorted out this year?
 

AceSalvo

Legend
USO is a lost cause. They have consistently been doing everything possible to prevent Federer from winning another one for the several years. I don't know the reason but their draws year after year cannot be a coincidence.
This is correct. Even if Fed gets to #2, I am pretty sure Nadal ends in Fed's half. Its pretty obvious by now.

If Fed is #3, he gets Djoko in the SF. The storyline for the first Fedal USO final will be huuuuge.
 
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Surion

Hall of Fame
Not last year...check all draws and schedules in the last decade. Rigged Fed-Djoker semis when Nadal would get Gasquet and Youzhny in the semi and yet making Fed-Djoker play the second semi with less time to recover for the final...Also check individual draws for the big 4.
It's called "bad luck". It's random.
 

Ann

Hall of Fame
Now that it's been a few days.....

In response to those that think Roger will have trouble getting over this....

I'm sure Roger feels bad but people do y'all not remember finals of 2008 W? He was up two sets and then lost the next 3. Roger recovered fairly well from that I'd say. :sneaky: He's had MP in big matches before and lost and while it may sting, life and Roger moves on.

Roger is the consummate professional. He's a veteran of many court wars. He'll be fine and we all need to move on. Let the Djoker/Nadal fanboys troll to their sad little heart's content. We know what they haven't even considered yet and can see coming, because we've been there. Nadal's aging fastest of the big 3. Djoker is a couple years past prime and we know how quick they can start to slide. What is, is not what will be in a year or two.

Roger has been, is and will retire GOAT.
 

Galdust

Rookie
Now that it's been a few days.....

In response to those that think Roger will have trouble getting over this....

I'm sure Roger feels bad but people do y'all not remember finals of 2008 W? He was up two sets and then lost the next 3. Roger recovered fairly well from that I'd say. :sneaky: He's had MP in big matches before and lost and while it may sting, life and Roger moves on.

Roger is the consummate professional. He's a veteran of many court wars. He'll be fine and we all need to move on. Let the Djoker/Nadal fanboys troll to their sad little heart's content. We know what they haven't even considered yet and can see coming, because we've been there. Nadal's aging fastest of the big 3. Djoker is a couple years past prime and we know how quick they can start to slide. What is, is not what will be in a year or two.

Roger has been, is and will retire GOAT.
He was down two sets and fought back to two all ;) but yes, I agree with you; he'll be fine. On to Cincy now!
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
On average, NYC is going to be a better climate than Miami. You'll run into those hot/muggy days every so often but generally it's not that bad. Especially considering Federer practices in Dubai.
Federer has his training block in Dubai in December, not in preparation for the USO in August/September. And Dubai doesn't have humidity issues.
 

StANDAA

Legend
For me, the worst three blown chances in slams for Roger are:

1. 2009 USO (no excuse losing to Del Po in his first and only slam final)
2. 2019 Wimbledon
3. 2009 AO (worst performance in a major final, so passive and nervous)

I guess we Fed fans can look to the bright side and name some slams he possibly "should" have lost: 2009 Wimbledon, 2017 AO.
Delpo has made another USO final last year ;) but I agree, USO 09 still probably stings the most
 

StANDAA

Legend
Had Roddick not blown that volley, he probably would have won, but even then, Roddick wasn’t the better player in that final after all was said and done.

—Total points won: 223 Federer, 213 Roddick
—Return points won: 68 Federer, 42 Roddick
—Dominance Ratio: Federer 1.33

As for 2017 AO, Nadal had to hold a few times to win, but Federer from the very beginning of the 5th set was deep into every Nadal service game but couldn’t break but won more return points.

—Total points won: 150 Federer, 139 Nadal
—Return points won: 59 Federer, 47 Nadal
—Dominance ratio: Federer, 1.15

As for the 2009 AO Final, Federer had a very, very good night from the baseline but was let down by his serve. He served at 51.7%, second lowest of all his Slam Finals matches (51.4% against DelPo) and that was with him taking pace off the serve as he was under 50%. Every other slamfinal vs, Nadal, Federer served at 60%+. Had he done so that night, he literally could have won in straight sets.
the "total points won" etc. stats don’t matter.

in the Wimby 19 final, stats like these were heavily inflated by those two "easy" sets 2 and 4, especially the second one, which Djokovic tanked. So I don’t think those stats mean much of anything.
 

NastyWinners

Professional
Thanks for letting us know.
Well theres a certain lot of Federer fans who like to fawn over court speed. The man proved he can play in any sort of condition. Be happy he’s a threat at every venue (at 38 freaking years old) instead of dooms-daying over court speeds, draws, and whatever nonsense stuff that’s out of his control.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Well theres a certain lot of Federer fans who like to fawn over court speed.
Which is not what you said. You made the erroneous and laughable remark that "court speed doesn't matter to Federer anymore." Actually it matters enormously, as everyone knows (except apparently you). Had the grass on Sunday been what it was 15 years ago, Djokovic would have lost in three. There's countless other examples relating to court speeds at almost every venue. Court speed matters immensely to Fed and is the cause of some of his more inexplicable losses. He can't hit through the court anymore, nor rob his opponent of time.
 

MeatTornado

Legend
Which is not what you said. You made the erroneous and laughable remark that "court speed doesn't matter to Federer anymore." Actually it matters enormously, as everyone knows (except apparently you). Had the grass on Sunday been what it was 15 years ago, Djokovic would have lost in three. There's countless other examples relating to court speeds at almost every venue. Court speed matters immensely to Fed and is the cause of some of his more inexplicable losses. He can't hit through the court anymore, nor rob his opponent of time.
I wouldn't say Roger in 3, only because on the whole he was still struggling to break Novak's serve, even when Roger was clearly the better player (3rd set in particular comes to mind). So a faster surface wouldn't have helped him there. And I don't want to blame the grass for the reason he lost those tiebreakers.
 

NastyWinners

Professional
Which is not what you said. You made the erroneous and laughable remark that "court speed doesn't matter to Federer anymore." Actually it matters enormously, as everyone knows (except apparently you). Had the grass on Sunday been what it was 15 years ago, Djokovic would have lost in three. There's countless other examples relating to court speeds at almost every venue. Court speed matters immensely to Fed and is the cause of some of his more inexplicable losses. He can't hit through the court anymore, nor rob his opponent of time.
You do know that the slower speeds are also helping Federer out too right? It’s giving him more time to set up for shots and having a better ability to defend since he’s slowed up a few steps.

But hey, keep insinuating that Federer can only succeed on faster courts instead of his game evolving as he’s aged.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
On average, NYC is going to be a better climate than Miami. You'll run into those hot/muggy days every so often but generally it's not that bad. Especially considering Federer practices in Dubai.
Obviously something was off for him that day. For the bigger part of two decades he's never been affected by heat so obviously like that - not even at the Aussie Open where it can be hotter than that for days on end. Whether it was not getting enough sleep, not eating enough fruit-loops for breakfast or something else, that match was an anomaly for him.
 

NastyWinners

Professional
Obviously something was off for him that day. For the bigger part of two decades he's never been affected by heat so obviously like that - not even at the Aussie Open where it can be hotter than that for days on end. Whether it was not getting enough sleep, not eating enough fruit-loops for breakfast or something else, that match was an anomaly for him.
Yeah it was completely out of the norm. Some days you wake up and your energy level is just off and that could have very well been what happened to him. Obviously the ventilation and conditions didn’t help that cause.
 
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