Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by DoubleDeuce, Jul 14, 2012.
Couldn't have said it any better.
Messi single-handedly dragged Argentina to a WC final and a two Copa America finals. Admittedly he did miss some chances in those finals but Had Higuain not massively bottled three times in a row, he would be sitting on three international trophies.
He was also dragged Barca to two treble winning seasons.
Not Messi's fault that he is surrounded by good players, there is the myth that he wouldn't do well in the Premier League, which is false because having come up against Arsenal, Man city, Man Utd, Messi has:
Played 24 games
Scored 17 goals
By Comparison, Ronaldo in the EPL came up against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City and has
As you can see, Messi has better stats in much less games so the myth he wouldn't do well in England is absurd. In fact, he would do as well as if not better than CR7.
Maradona didn't score in the 1986 WC final, but he set up his team mates and was not stifled by the German defence, unlike Messi a generation later.
Your second sentence is strange. Surely a GOAT individual should be able to rise above mediocre team mates to win trophies? Any player who cannot do so, cannot be the football GOAT. That's the point of football really - inspirational genius being able to turn matches. Messi was unable to do this at international level, unlike Maradona.
I can concede that Messi is - along with Di Stefano - the greatest club footballer of all time. But not as great as Pele or Maradona, all things considered.
If you watch highlights from the WC, you'll see that Messi set up his team mates enough times for one of them being able to score. Maradona had better attackers alongside him than Messi had. If Higuain had score just one of his million opportunities we wouldn't have this coversation and you would consider Messi as great as Pele and Maradona just because he won the World Cup. See how ****ed up that is? Pure coincidences in other words.
Besides, we're talking one match. A match that comes around every fourth year.
Like someone else said, WC is no longer the place where the highest quality matches take place. The toughest competition is without doubt in Champions League, where Messi has excelled time and time again like no other.
You're talking one match, which is the most important in football. Ask Messi if he'd give up some of his Champions League trophies for the World Cup, and I wonder what he'd say...?
By the way, Di Stefano probably excelled more than Messi in the European Cup/Champions League, if we're being pedantic.
Of course he would, and by all rights. Everyone would take a WC trophy over a CL trophy. But quality wise, CL is tougher. It's just that the World Cup comes around every fourth year, which makes it harder to win. You can't really blame Messi for Higuain's pathetic failures, especially in the World Cup final. Let's say Maradona would have Higuain in his time and Messi would have had Burruchaga in his. Then Maradona wouldn't be a World Cup winner, but Messi would be one. That's why I don't really believe in the "WC win a must to be GOAT" thing.
Yeah, Di Stefano was great, racking up title after title in CL. I'd still rate Messi higher due to the modern era being way more competitive.
According to PC tennis boards, Serena Williams is #1 of all time in all sports! Doesn't matter that she couldn't beat ATP #1000, who cares! Everyone knows women's tennis is AMAZINGBALLS!
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