Every time someone adresses him should start the post with this :
17>14
302>286
1RG>......
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Federer on Clay
- Thread starter Eragon
- Start date
Every time someone adresses him should start the post with this :
17>14
302>286
1RG>......
Incognito
Legend
Hey, being owned by a player it`s still less humiliating than being owned by a surface, don`t you think?
6
6-3 6-0
Guest
Logic of RFederer haters (includes both RNadal + PSampras trollboys):
Getting owned by an all time great >>>>>>> Gettting owned by a journeyman
Getting owned by an all time great >>>>>>> Gettting owned by a journeyman
I saw what you did there!
Crisstti
Legend
Who is the journeyman who owns Nadal?.
Anyway, it's more meaningful since you cannot so easily attribute it to some conditions, matchup issue.
abmk
Bionic Poster
point is if you want to take out rafa from the CC field weakening it considerably and then want to compare with AO/USO achievements as is, and say clay is not his worst surface, that is not an even comparision at all and totally dumb ..
with or without rafa, clay was/is his worst surface. a strong CCer, lesser than rafa, would've shown it. Just that rafa amplifies it more.
LOL, wut, learn to read . I said : If you want to say
well duh, I was being sarcastic, I said you take out the other 2 best CCers of this era and make hypotheticals, of course federer is going to benefit a lot
anyone being ? monfed ? Like I've said, I put him at the courier, bruguera, vilas, muster, ferrero level .....much better than some of the 1 slammers like chang, costa, gomez etc.
well, that's what I said too ...
problem is he didn't come close to that level in any of the 5 RG encounters vs rafa ...if he had done that, he would have had a good shot at winning in their encounters at RG ( minus 2008 RG ) ...but he didn't ... that's a negative .
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abmk
Bionic Poster
he'd lose to moya in 05, nalbandian in 06, davydenko in 07, gonzalez or monfils in 08 .... no , he's not making a RG final ...., let alone multiple !
abmk
Bionic Poster
it was 6-2 to krajicek until krajicek's injuries took a heavy toll by 2000 and he ended it ranked 36, out of top 15 for the first time since 95.
M
monfed
Guest
Typical Ralph fan bringing up H2H. By this logic, Fed's better than Pete on fast grass since he leads the H2H 1-0 on fast grass which disqualifies the assertion that you made in your previous post that Pete's better than Fed on fast grass(which btw I agree with since he has more weapons to hurt Fed than vice versa).
By the same logic, Djokovic is better than Ralph on grass,afterall he beat Rafi in Wimby 2011 final when BOTH of them were in the primes. But let me guess this doesn't count. :lol:
Anyway to answer to your "challenge" and relieve you of severe angst:
Fed beat Gaudio,Coria and Guga at Hamburg. BTW Fed's BAGELLED AND BEATEN Ralph at Hamburg too I guess that means something.
Hamburg is faster lower bouncing clay which suits Fed's first strike aggressive allcourt tennis, he doesn't have to grind it out as much as he'd have to at say RG and Rome , and they're typically what clay courts play like(like in the 90s and 80s and your mancrush is good at) and where he'd get his *** handed to him on a plate by guys like Coria/Guga/Ferrero etc. Hamburg is quite similar to Madrid in that respect, gives great allcourter players like Federer whose weaknesses on clay aren't exposed and it gives them a chance to beat claycourters like Ralph,Coria,Gaudio, Guga etc.
A deeper look at the Ferrero Fred H2H on CLAY clearly shows that Fred beat Ferrero on clay from 2007 onwards(the one match they played in Rome in 03,Ferrero retired from an injury btw) when Ferrero was a mere shadow of his 2002-2003 self. I guess we should call Stako a better grasscourter than Federer,after all he leads the H2H 1-0 AND ousted Fed at Wimby(of all places) no less.
Quite frankly I suggest you take a closer look at H2Hs before you post them around as if they were facts. H2H if anything is the most misleading statistic of all time as has been debunked time n time again because they ALMOST NEVER reveal the complete picture.
So the win at Hamburg against Guga is more important than the humiliating beatdown Fed received at RG 2004. Ok Got it. You're funny,I'll give you that much.
FYI, a return-from-injury Kuerten STRAIGHT SETTED prime Federer at RG. Too bad for Fed that RG plays more like a claycourt than Hamburg.
Almagro is a well known headcase like Nando, he could be up 2-0 in sets serving at 5-2 40-0 in the third set and he'll still find a way to lose. Nice try though.
Ferrer is more of a backboard than a quality claycourter plus he horribly matches up with Fed, I mean had Fed faced Ferrer in this year's semi when Fed was playing terrible, he'd prolly still lost. I seriously doubt many would've bet dough on Ferrer taking out Federer. The H2H is 14-0 or something, he's just a sausage in a doghouse for the big 4 really.
Federer Monaco, meh not even gonna bother, Fed could probably beat that scrub blindfolded.
Sorry, the quality claycourters of 2002-03 and before fell off the map in 05,Coria never recovered from RG 04, Guga left the scene, Ferrero was nowhere near his 02-03 level, Gaudio was grateful enough for RG 04 against a bizarre Coria meltdown. Ralph won most of his clay slams against Federer whose 1HBH is easily exploitable and his worst surface is clay, Djokovic who hadn't fully blossomed and again who is a HCer who tries to adapt to clay.
I wish you did more research on H2H which you Nadal fanboys are so fond of, would've save me a ton of energy and more importantly time. *SIGH*
I've said what I wanted to say, proof is in the pudding,Ralph's claycourt competition since 05 has been nothing short of a joke and he massively profited from it. The guy wasn't even challenged. Atleast Fed was tested by a nightmare matchup in Ralph at Wimby and even AO.
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Towser83
G.O.A.T.
I think he meant sampras not Nadal.
Crisstti
Legend
Of clay court specialists, it did. Not when it comes to all court players.
But hey, if you want to call Fed and Novak a joke of clay, be my guest.
President
Legend
Monfed's is so obsessed with the Nadal Federer H2H that he thinks its TOTALLY irrelevant as a barometer. That's idiotic, if ALL available evidence shows that Federer owns the so called strong clay courters on clay (even if the matches are at Hamburg, which btw is EXTREMELY slow but also not as high bouncing, what other data points do you want to use?) you still cling to just one match, ONE MATCH when every other possible piece of evidence goes against what you are saying. And why do you keep calling Nadal my hero, it is possible to like both Federer and Nadal on this forum. In fact, I've attacked Nadal many more times in my posting history than Federer, I don't even think I've ever made ONE disparaging comment about Roger while I've made countless about Nadal. Check Federer vs Nadal match threads in the past to see who I support between them.
You still haven't shown me anything that would indicate that Gaston Gaudio would destroy Roger Federer at Monte Carlo (LOL).
You still haven't shown me anything that would indicate that Gaston Gaudio would destroy Roger Federer at Monte Carlo (LOL).
But who else could he have played??? Whilst his draws might not have been legendary, the clay court field was very week. The only player he hasn't beaten at the FO happens to be the greatest clay courter ever. The only top players he didn't face at the FO were Roddick (never making it past 3rd round and was bad on clay) and Safin (injury problems). Stop making out like Federer dodged tough opponents - these opponents just did not exist!
Sorana fan
Banned
We just saw ******* on clay.
Who was the guy who beat him? Never heard of him before
Who was the guy who beat him? Never heard of him before
Omega_7000
Legend
At least he won't retire at 29 unlike ********
If you think ******** is going to catch up to Fed's slam count you're kidding yourself :lol: first he has to win something significant on something other than clay...and with his injuries he is going to retire at 29.
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M
monfed
Guest
According to ******** fans, Ralph can win 20 RGs and be GOAT. :lol:
6-1 6-3 6-0
Banned
M
monfed
Guest
You can never say "what-ifs" in sports. "if not for Nadal then Federer would have 6 FO's," well you can spin it the other way. If not for Djokovic, Nadal would already be at 15 slams, would have had at least another year at #1, and would be arguably GOAT (considering his H2H with all other players).
Considering the number of chances he had, Federer should have been able to beat Nadal just once to win the FO. Djokovic has only taken a run at it twice and look at how close he's gotten already.
Considering the number of chances he had, Federer should have been able to beat Nadal just once to win the FO. Djokovic has only taken a run at it twice and look at how close he's gotten already.
Do you really think Nadal is playing at the same level he did in 2006-2008? And they have played each other 5 times at RG already,the same number of times Federer and Nadal played eacth other at RG. Being a year younger than Nadal also helps.
Omega_7000
Legend
Hahahahahahahahahahaha ******** will be done and dusted by the time he is 29...He will maybe win one more FO and and some mickey mouse tournaments...that's about it! :lol:
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zagor
Bionic Poster
It's not as simple as that, without Novak Fed would (arguably) have another 2 slams (2008 and 2011 AO, would stand around 40% of beating Nadal in 2011 USO as well) which would mean the slam record is 19, hard to argue H2H can close the gap of 4 slams (then again, this is TW so I shouldn't surprised I guess).
Personally I agree, though many Nadal fans claim Nadal's past his prime on clay.
It's my opinion that this is the one feat which sets Federer back in the everlasting GOAT debate and I also think it would be his biggest regret in his career. Although I think with great domination (his domination from 2004-2007) comes the polar opposite; He was pretty much everyone's bane in those years save a few matches here and their, yet one player pretty much eluded him throughout.
I think what didn't help is that they played a lot of times on clay prior to when Nadal became competent on the other surfaces; The h2h and belief of Nadal eventually transcended surfaces and the opposite effect happened to Federer - he stopped believing he could beat Nadal full stop. Add the fact he played quite stupid in a lot of their encounters not on clay.
Eragon
Banned
What I find funny is that a lot is said about Federer never beating Nadal at Roland Garros but nothing is ever said about Sampras never beating Agassi at the Australian Open and that both his wins there came when Agassi was not even in the draw.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
You know that he grew up playing on clay right? You do understand that he is a baseline player right? You do know that when Federer needs to win a point, if not the serve, he virtually always goes to baseline play right?
Federer hits with the second most spin out of any of the player in the last 10 years. Federer's string set-up is made to mimic the infamous spaghetti string setup. Federer uses poly just like all the clay courters, but with string savers as well.
I also love have you exclude/ignore all the other stats to make him look the best you possibly can. That is why people don't like fans like you.
Federer hits with the second most spin out of any of the player in the last 10 years. Federer's string set-up is made to mimic the infamous spaghetti string setup. Federer uses poly just like all the clay courters, but with string savers as well.
I also love have you exclude/ignore all the other stats to make him look the best you possibly can. That is why people don't like fans like you.
I don't think so. Surfaces slowed starting in 2001 by Wimbledon till 2003 and
finalized by USO in 2004. Federer is surely great player who can excel on
fast surfaces of anytime before 2001, but just not as successful as he has
been on slow surfaces.
Death Master
Banned
interesting thread.
Death Master
Banned
he is already done. clay warrior won the RG this year on 1 leg and damn near no backhand.
that said, he is going to take the next 2 RG crowns too.
who the hell can deal with him at RG?
the man is a beast even at 55% capacity.
and did I mention that I am not happy with him?
Eragon
Banned
Federer > Djokovic. On all 3 surfaces. Fact 8)
FrontHeadlock
Hall of Fame
Agreed.
Agassi could have and should have won more titles at AO/FO in his career.
He was a bit unfortunate that he matched up so poorly against Sampras at the USO.
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