"Federer plays better on faster surfaces" myth busted

Most likely 2006 Federer would have had a positive record against Thiem, but one thing is still strange for me:

Why has it Federer so much easier against Nadal these days than against Thiem while Nadal is still a significantly better tennis player than Thiem himself right now?
Lol, sample size. 1-1 against doll, 1 win on grass. 0-3 against Tim, no matches on grass. I'm sure Fed would've beaten Domm at wimbelle of all places.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Wait. Did the rule changed, and now players aren't allowed bad-days or losses, especially to peaking players? Or must Fedr win all matches played on fast courts bc he's normally great on them, something he didn't manage even as peakerer? :unsure:
Just a frustrated poster with too much free time on his hands ;)
 

OhYes

Legend
Lol, sample size. 1-1 against doll, 1 win on grass. 0-3 against Tim, no matches on grass. I'm sure Fed would've beaten Domm at wimbelle of all places.
How can I collect bigger sample size when we had all slow courts so far ? I expected Fed to wipe out this clay specialist on much faster surface.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Hey Tennis Hands, why don't you just buzz off ? :mad: I am clearly not at your level and this topic is too muddy for you.
I actually offered you a point that you didn't consider.

Apart from that, I am sorry that you are angry that people call your thread for what it is.

:cool:
 

OhYes

Legend
I actually offered you a point that you didn't consider.

Apart from that, I am sorry that you are angry that people call your thread for what it is.

:cool:
You don't have to offer anything to me from the point you said "I am not going to ask you for proof. I know that you can't give me one, so let's just say that this thread is an absolute garbage.", and the fact you are still digging through this trash, is making you very questionable person to talk about anything for that matter. So once again - buzz off and don't talk to me as if you have some valuable advice to give. I don't want to have you in my life at all.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
You don't have to offer anything to me from the point you said "I am not going to ask you for proof. I know that you can't give me one, so let's just say that this thread is an absolute garbage.", and the fact you are still digging through this trash, is making you very questionable person to talk about anything for that matter. So once again - buzz off and don't talk to me as if you have some valuable advice to give. I don't want to have you in my life at all.
I am not addressing your points for you, but for those that might want to read why they don't make sense at all. Luckily, there are other people in this thread that actually have posted something that is worth the read albeit to disprove your points, so even in that there is some usefulness for the reasonable tennis fan. Maybe I was too pessimistic when I said that, so please provide the said proofs that at 30 Federer was considered 38. I would gladly look into them. As for the rest, you can always use the ignore button, but let's be honest here, if I was to be decide whether people like you would be around me, they would be gone (and they are). This is a public forum, so, you have limited possibilities how you proceed from here.

:cool:
 

King No1e

Legend
If you want the truth about the real level of the player, from the player, wait until he retires and gets real. A champion can't admit he is almost "over" until the very end. It's a psychological mistake.

But ALL of the big 3 peaked earlier in defense. Novak has been fading for a couple years now, but it's hard to see because "faded" for Novak is close to the best again this year, but compare him to himself, his peak, and he has declined.

Fed peaked no later than 2006, and perhaps earlier. Novak peaked in 2011. Rafa peaked in 2008. Old players don't improve defensively. They compensate. Fed's been doing it for years, Novak's doing it now, Rafa obviously is slower. Then end is a slow motion drop until the end, when it turns into a nosedive. Fed did not improve defensively in 2017. Novak just wasn't around to continue what he did in the years before, up to 2015.

Novak's fans think it won't happen to him too, but it will. It's already happening, but he's taking up the slack with really good serving and smarter tactics.
Absolutely. And of course I know Djokovic isn't at his peak now, that ended in 2012. He's become a better server, net player, and more percentage oriented since Becker came on board, which has prolonged his career (although his athletic ability is still best in the business).

Only issue I have with this post is that Nadal peaked in 2010, not 08 IMHO. Or to be really specific, grass peak 08, clay peak 12, HC peak 13, and overall peak 2010.
 

OhYes

Legend
I am not addressing your points for you, but for those that might want to read why they don't make sense at all. Luckily, there are other people in this thread that actually have posted something that is worth the read albeit to disprove your points, so even in that there is some usefulness for the reasonable tennis fan. Maybe I was too pessimistic when I said that, so please provide the said proofs that at 30 Federer was considered 38. I would gladly look into them. As for the rest, you can always use the ignore button, but let's be honest here, if I was to be decide whether people like you would be around me, they would be gone (and they are). This is a public forum, so, you have limited possibilities how you proceed from here.

:cool:
For some strange reason my thread and thougts about it have gathered more likes than anything you said about it. You can't even gather around Fed fans to support you, not to mention others you try to educate.
 

swordtennis

Legend
I dont buy this peak BS. Which is a recent obsession since fedal stopped mopping up. i prefer to listen to the players themselves the coaches other greats etc etc. These guys just dont all of a sudden suck. They have peaks and vallies. Retooling tooling. No where back in rhe 70s 80s and 90s was this GD peak thing ranted about constantly. Gets boring after awhile.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
For some strange reason my thread and thougts about it have gathered more likes than anything you said about it. You can't even gather around Fed fans to support you, not to mention others you try to educate.
I don't think that you understand who gives likes for what if you thought that that is your argument about the worthiness of your points. For example, I can probably list the people that would potentially like your posts to me just because you are responding to me and for no other reason.

Don't forget to give those proofs that you mentioned (about Federer being considered 38 when the was 30) next time you post, as you seem to think that that is a truthful statement.

:cool:
 

Sport

Legend
Wimbledon was extremely slow this year (for grass standards) which helped Federer's movement and return. Moreover, the bounce was very low and even Nadal was troubled by Fed's slice (something he rarely is affected by). That is one of the reasons he pushed Novak this year, who had hard time dealing with the sharp slices and the low/inconsistent bounce. The other is that Djokovic simply didn't play that great.
No, it wasn't. Any CPI data proving it? WB is the Slam averaging more aces this year. Also, RG was much slower and Federer was destroyed by Nadal, proving the slower the surface, the worse for Federer. The USO is also slower than WB and Federer has not won there since 2008.
 
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OhYes

Legend
I don't think that you understand who gives likes for what if you thought that that is your argument about the worthiness of your points. For example, I can probably list the people that would potentially like your posts to me just because you are responding to me and for no other reason.

Don't forget to give those proofs that you mentioned (about Federer being considered 38 when the was 30) next time you post, as you seem to think that that is a truthful statement.

:cool:
All I am saying that you live in some imaginary world of your own and that you can't deal even with ignorant people like me in garbage threads like this. Even this lousy level is way above your head.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
All I am saying that you live in some imaginary world of your own and that you can't deal even with ignorant people like me in garbage threads like this. Even this lousy level is way above your head.
You just posted a thread generalising about Federer on fast courts based on a single match at 38. I don't think that I need to search for a proof of who lives in an imaginary world out of the two of us.

:cool:
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
He is a quick court specialist. Just because he lost one match doesn't change that.

Nor is Thiem merely good at clay. He won IW as his biggest title.

RF made some uncharacteristic errors, it may have more to do with the pressures of playing London again after Wimby 40-15 defeat.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Hey man, every single post you write here is about Fed's age or weak era, ie you write only excuses.... :sneaky:

Have you anything more to say about tennis this days?
To be honest, I mostly just read the forum with interest these days. What you’re seeing is me replying to stupid posts, or ignoring trolls.
 

beard

Professional
To be honest, I mostly just read the forum with interest these days. What you’re seeing is me replying to stupid posts, or ignoring trolls.
Understand, but when someone is looking at your post he can only see one script, bot like ;)
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
“When I came here I was positively surprised that conditions are fast and not slow like they were in previous years. I feel like the court allows to keep the rallies short with a good and dominant serve and immediately searching for the point,”

He was beaten today in straights by clay court specialist.

Should we stick to....idk... beautiful backhand ? :unsure:
Fraud can't even keep is facts straight in his dotage:-D
 

bhpower

Rookie
Fed game fits naturally fast courts.
His offensive game is good for that.
In some extent Djokovic adapts pretty well too.
Nadal is the one whose game doesn't adapt well to fast courts.
Having said that, Federer has.benefited from medium and slow courts against big servers and big hitters like Tsonga, Del Potro, Isner, etc.
 

SaintPetros

Hall of Fame
Zverev > Sampras on clay.
like that solves Fed's even bigger problem of getting dominated by not just one but TWO claycourters at his supposed best non-slam venue that actually matters? one of them being the greatest claycourter of all time?? dont forget Thiem's a better claycourter while you're at it
ROFLMAO!!!!
 

Martin J

Rookie
No, it wasn't. Any CPI data proving it? WB is the Slam averaging more aces this year. Also, RG was much slower and Federer was destroyed by Nadal, proving the slower the surface, the worse for Federer. The USO is also slower than WB and Federer has not won there since 2008.
Players will always hit more aces at Wimbledon due to the nature of its surface, it causes the ball to skid off the court after the bounce, giving the player less time to react (as the bounce is usually pretty low on grass, with the exception of 2018).

This year's Wimbledon was dominated by the baseliners since the QF (Goffin, Pella, Nishikori, Goffin, Djokovic, Nadal, Bautista Agut) and all the big servers were defeated in early rounds except Querrey (who reached the QF and was crushed by Nadal, uncharacteristically I would say) which tells a lot about the conditions - and they were slow. And that is obvious to anyone who actually followed the matches, it was very hard to break the defense of a good baseliner on a surfaces that is supposed to be fast.
In the previous years, there were guys like Querrey, Cilic, Tsonga, Raonic, Kyrgios, etc at least in QF, some of them in SF. This year that wasn't the case.

Federer not able to win at the US open and his result against Nadal at RG has nothing to do with my comment about slow Wimbledon surface.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
like that solves Fed's even bigger problem of getting dominated by not just one but TWO claycourters at his supposed best non-slam venue that actually matters? one of them being the greatest claycourter of all time?? dont forget Thiem's a better claycourter while you're at it
ROFLMAO!!!!
Fed got dominated by two clay courters while
Sampras got dominated by ALL clay courters.. .... LMAO
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Which claycourters dominated Fed on fast courts between 2003-2012? Nadal once at Wimbledon? Anymore?
Once?:
3/2012 SF Australian Open Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 6-7(5) 6-2 7-6(5) 6-4
47/2011 RR A ATP World Tour Finals Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-3 6-0
12/2011 SF Miami Masters Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 6-3 6-2
47/2010 F ATP World Tour Finals Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-3 3-6 6-1
4/2009 F Australian Open Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 7-5 3-6 7-6(3) 3-6 6-2
26/2008 F Wimbledon Grass Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 6-4 6-4 6-7(5) 6-7(8) 9-7

45/2007 SF Tennis Masters Cup Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-4 6-1
26/2007 F Wimbledon Grass Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 7-6(7) 4-6 7-6(3) 2-6 6-2
45/2006 SF Tennis Masters Cup Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-4 7-5
26/2006 F Wimbledon Grass Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-0 7-6(5) 6-7(2) 6-3
9/2006 F Dubai Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 2-6 6-4 6-4
12/2005 F Miami Masters Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 2-6 6-7(4) 7-6(5) 6-3 6-1
13/2004 R32 Miami Masters Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 6-3 6-3:-D
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Once?:
3/2012 SF Australian Open Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 6-7(5) 6-2 7-6(5) 6-4
47/2011 RR A ATP World Tour Finals Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-3 6-0
12/2011 SF Miami Masters Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 6-3 6-2
47/2010 F ATP World Tour Finals Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-3 3-6 6-1
4/2009 F Australian Open Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 7-5 3-6 7-6(3) 3-6 6-2
26/2008 F Wimbledon Grass Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 6-4 6-4 6-7(5) 6-7(8) 9-7

45/2007 SF Tennis Masters Cup Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-4 6-1
26/2007 F Wimbledon Grass Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 7-6(7) 4-6 7-6(3) 2-6 6-2
45/2006 SF Tennis Masters Cup Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-4 7-5
26/2006 F Wimbledon Grass Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 6-0 7-6(5) 6-7(2) 6-3
9/2006 F Dubai Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 2-6 6-4 6-4
12/2005 F Miami Masters Hard Roger Federer Rafael Nadal 2-6 6-7(4) 7-6(5) 6-3 6-1
13/2004 R32 Miami Masters Hard Rafael Nadal Roger Federer 6-3 6-3:-D
All slow HCs that favour Nadal in the match up aside from Wimbledon and Dubai 2006.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
All slow HCs that favour Nadal in the match up aside from Wimbledon and Dubai 2006.
Just did WTF thread and Nad's indoor Elo is quite pedestrian. Seems like he held off his myth getting busted a few weeks more by ducking Shapo, but now the gig is up.:cool:
 

ghostofMecir

Hall of Fame
“When I came here I was positively surprised that conditions are fast and not slow like they were in previous years. I feel like the court allows to keep the rallies short with a good and dominant serve and immediately searching for the point,”

He was beaten today in straights by clay court specialist.

Should we stick to....idk... beautiful backhand ? :unsure:
The absolute abysmal failure in logic in this post saddens me.
 
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