Federer/Sampras/Nadal comparison 6 years of prime

Ledigs

Legend
6 years 24 slams

Sampras (1993-1998) age 22 through 27

Australian
3rd Round - 1
QF - 1
SF - 1
F - 1
W - 2

French
1R - 1
2R - 1
3R - 1
QF - 2
SF - 1

Wimbledon
QF - 1
W - 5

US Open
4R - 2
SF - 1
W - 3


Federer (2004-2009) age 23 - 28

Australian
SF - 2
F - 1
W - 3

French
3R - 1
SF - 1
F - 3
W - 1

Wimbledon
F - 1
W - 5

USOpen
F - 1
W - 5


Nadal (2005-2010) age 19-24

Australian
Missed - 1
4R - 1
QF - 2
SF - 1
W - 1

French
4R - 1
W - 5

Wimbledon
Missed - 1
2R - 1
F - 2
W - 2

USOpen
3R - 1
4R - 1
QF - 1
SF - 2
(At least SF in 2010 pending)

Sampras Totals: age 22-27
Missed - 0
1R - 1
2R - 1
3R - 2
4R - 2
QF - 4
SF - 3
F - 1
W - 10

Federer Totals: age 23-28
Missed - 0
1R - 0
2R - 0
3R - 1
4R - 0
QF - 0
SF - 3
F - 6
W - 14

Nadal Totals: age 18-23
Missed - 2
1R - 0
2R - 1
3R - 1
4R - 3
QF - 3
SF - 3
F - 2
W - 8
+ 2010 US Open result SF or higher
 
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Nadal was not even approaching prime until 2007 (maybe 2008). Come back in three years to do the analysis, but counting a teenaged Nadal as prime is just dumb.
 
You are comparing primes when Nadal has been Prime for maybe 2 years ( with a few months of injury during that time)?

What point are you trying to make?
 
No point I will do it every year. I did it last year too. I think it's fun to compare the three. Should I throw Agassi in as well?
 
Agassi's figures will be awful, and his prime came in two separate periods. Borg would be interesting.
 
The very impressive thing with Nadal is that he's been winning since before his prime (albeit mostly on clay). I would say he hit the beginning of his prime in '07-'08. And this says a lot bc even before he hit prime he was making the finals at Wimby and winning every clay court event in sight. But we all have to remember that part of the reason for his success on grass is that grass has been slowed down so much such that the clay-grass transition is much easier than it was in previous decades.
 
IMO Nadal is only just starting to enter his prime (24-28 ) which is gonna be real scary. He could win 8-10 of the next 16 slams. I wish Nadal and Fed were the same age.
 
Agree with statto. I say 2008 is the start of prime nadal. The key improvements relative to 2007 are a bigger forehand on all surfaces and further improvement on the serve.

Connors believes nadal hasn't hit prime yet. :)
 
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The very impressive thing with Nadal is that he's been winning since before his prime (albeit mostly on clay). I would say he hit the beginning of his prime in '07-'08. And this says a lot bc even before he hit prime he was making the finals at Wimby and winning every clay court event in sight. But we all have to remember that part of the reason for his success on grass is that grass has been slowed down so much such that the clay-grass transition is much easier than it was in previous decades.

Ugh, no. It has not been "slowed" since 2001, and even then, it's still the fastest around as explained by the players, and is oh so obvious.

If the clay-grass transition was easy, or close, then EVERY clay court player would do awesome at Wimbledon, and they don't. Do you ever see Venus doing well at the French, or Roddick?

Nadal is just great. Deal with it.
 
Agassi's figures will be awful, and his prime came in two separate periods. Borg would be interesting.

Bjorn Borg's record in Slams
1973 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1973 French Open: Round of 16 Loser
1973 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1973 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1974 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1974 French Open: CHAMPION
1974 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1974 US Open: Round of 64 Loser
1975 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1975 French Open: CHAMPION
1975 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1975 US Open: Semi Final Loser
1976 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1976 French Open: Quarter Final Loser
1976 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1976 US Open: Runner-up
1977 Australian Open (Jan): Did Not Play
1977 French Open: Did Not Play
1977 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1977 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1977 Australian Open (Dec): Did Not Play
1978 French Open: CHAMPION
1978 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1978 US Open: Runner-up
1978 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1979 French Open: CHAMPION
1979 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1979 US Open: Quarter Final Loser
1979 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1980 French Open: CHAMPION
1980 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1980 US Open: Runner-up
1980 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1981 French Open: CHAMPION
1981 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1981 US Open: Runner-up
1981 Australian Open: Did Not Play


So Bjorn Borg had:
10 - Did Not Play
1 - Round of 64 Loser
1 - Round of 32 Loser
4 - Round of 16 Loser
4 - Quarter Final Loser
1 - Semi Final Loser
5 - Runner-up
11 - CHAMPION
 
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Bjorn Borg's record in Slams
1973 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1973 French Open: Round of 16 Loser
1973 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1973 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1974 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1974 French Open: CHAMPION
1974 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1974 US Open: Round of 64 Loser
1975 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1975 French Open: CHAMPION
1975 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1975 US Open: Semi Final Loser
1976 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1976 French Open: Quarter Final Loser
1976 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1976 US Open: Runner-up
1977 Australian Open (Jan): Did Not Play
1977 French Open: Did Not Play
1977 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1977 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1977 Australian Open (Dec): Did Not Play
1978 French Open: CHAMPION
1978 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1978 US Open: Runner-up
1978 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1979 French Open: CHAMPION
1979 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1979 US Open: Quarter Final Loser
1979 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1980 French Open: CHAMPION
1980 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1980 US Open: Runner-up
1980 Australian Open: Did Not Play
1981 French Open: CHAMPION
1981 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1981 US Open: Runner-up
1981 Australian Open: Did Not Play


So Bjorn Borg had:
9 - Did Not Play
1 - Round of 64 Loser
1 - Round of 32 Loser
4 - Round of 16 Loser
4 - Quarter Final Loser
1 - Semi Final Loser
5 - Runner-up
11 - CHAMPION

Gotta pick 6 years. Once Nadal's career is over we can compare entire career but for now we have to do only 6 years
 
LOL @ all the "Nadal has only NOW hit his prime" stuff. Yeah, I'm sure Nadal is going to have 5 more "prime" years after this one.

Odds are he will quit, citing "knee problems" as soon as Del Potro gets healthy and starts blasting him off the court.
 
The very impressive thing with Nadal is that he's been winning since before his prime (albeit mostly on clay). I would say he hit the beginning of his prime in '07-'08. And this says a lot bc even before he hit prime he was making the finals at Wimby and winning every clay court event in sight. But we all have to remember that part of the reason for his success on grass is that grass has been slowed down so much such that the clay-grass transition is much easier than it was in previous decades.

Lol!

The grass is the same grass Federer won all his Wimbledon titles on. In 2008, Nadal was the first guy to win the FO-Wimby double in 30 years.

Don't make silly statements.
 
Gotta pick 6 years. Once Nadal's career is over we can compare entire career but for now we have to do only 6 years

For Borg that would be '76-'81, so:

8 Absent
1 R4
2 QF
0 SF
5 F
9 W

Comes to 25 total because of the extra AO in '77
 
While everyone laughs when years like 2005 are mentioned as Nadal's prime, let's look at some of the stats before making final decisions. 2005 is actually his most successful year to date with 11 titles. Yes some of those were of the 'smaller' clay court events which he no longer plays, but it did include 2 masters series hard court titles plus 1 final, something he has not been able to equal since. He also won another atp500 hard court that year in Beijing. His other results of that year were 2 more masters on his favoured clay, plus RG. Only 3 of the 11 tournaments were atp250 events. To date he has not been able to match his total of 4 masters series titles that year. He may do it this time round.

His most rounded year to date has been 2008, with big titles on hard, clay and grass. Wimbledon and RG were the top titles on grass and clay respectively, with 1 masters series on hard and also the Olympic title being his best hard court results. He finished 2008 with his second best title haul of 8. Although this is 3 less than 2005, that's essentialy just knocking off this 3 atp250 titles and also upgrading one or two of those 500's to the olympic title or a slam, however you want to look at it.

2010 is looking like it will rival those two years achievements and possibly eclipse them. It will be his most successful year in the slams to date, providing he does reach the final here...and then who knows. His results on the rest of the tour though are not so brilliant. Ofcourse his 3 masters series on clay will rank as one of the best achievements of his career, but the hard court results, which he was able to produce earlier in his career, even in the year of 2005 which most people laugh of as a suggestion of one of his best years, have, as yet, not been matched. Yes he has proved in his last few years he has improved on grass but it almost seems he has stepped back on hard. People always argue hard is his worst surface and he is always improving on it, but they seem to forget he has had some outstanding results on it already and he is actually not being able to match them recently.

My point of all this is to question the theory that alot of people seem to have of peak years apparently being from 24-28 or around-abouts. I think for every player it is different at what age they have their peaks. Many players who break through as teenage stars have their peak years at younger ages. We will only know at the end of Rafa's career when he was at his peak. Many players improve every year, with experience and so on, which I think we could end up saying about Rafa. Each year we could come back to the USO and say this is his best chance yet, with all the expecrience he will have built up over the previous years. But will he repeat and show a dominant year as 2005 where he was 18/19 years old or as rounded as 2008 where he was 21/22 years old? I struggle to see him winning 11 titles again. If he is lucky he may get 3 slams in one year at some stage though and improve on that year of 2008. It could be this year.

While I certainly question whether Nadal's peak years will come at the same ages as Federer had his, that time has now come, this is his 24th year. An age at which Roger had already been having his peak results, infact since he was 22/23 in 2004 - 3 slams in that year, masters series on clay and hard. Federer also showed this kind of dominance - winning 3 slams a year or 10+ titles for the next 4 years. Clearly his peak. Will Rafa start to show this dominance now he is at this golden age that some people suggest is peak for everyone? As I said previously, I dont see him winning 10+ titles in a season again, certainly not 2 more years of it. And I dont see him winning 3 slams a year from age of 24 to 28 or whatever.

The conclusion of all of this? As many people knew anyway, Roger's peak and dominance was much higher and longer sustained than Rafa's ever will be (or possibly ever has been? Like I said I think some of his results such as 11 titles in a year I dont think he will repeat).
 
IMO Nadal is only just starting to enter his prime (24-28 ) which is gonna be real scary. He could win 8-10 of the next 16 slams. I wish Nadal and Fed were the same age.

i mean it's possible, but federer will stay for at least 2 more years, and assuming he retires after that, nadal will be 26 when he becomes the true heads and shoulders giant above the rest of the field where everywhere he enters he is the undisputed favorite, so i don't think he will quite reach those numbers, but half of them will be pretty much guaranteed
 
He won 11 titles in 2005...the most he ever won in a year. Including 4 MS.

Please, look at the results, not the age.

I don't care if he won a million ATP 250 and 500 events. Masters and Slams are all that matter, and Nadal started winning those on a consistent basis starting in 08.
 
I don't care if he won a million ATP 250 and 500 events. Masters and Slams are all that matter, and Nadal started winning those on a consistent basis starting in 08.

Let's see. In 2005, Nadal won the following 11 titles

1. Costa Do Sauipe (250 event)
2. Acapulco (500 event)
3. Monte Carlo (1,000 event)
4. Barcelona (500 event)
5. Rome (1,000 event)
6. French Open (2,000 event)
7. Bastad (250 event)
8. Stuttgart (500 event)
9. Montreal (1,000 event)
10. Beijing (500 event)
11. Madrid Indoor (1,000 event)

That's 1 slam and 4 masters series. Nadal has not won 4 masters series titles in a calendar year since 2005.
 
The only real question is which nadal was the clay court prime nadal. On all other surfaces the 2008+ nadal would school all the earlier nadals. :)
 
2008 Nadal on clay ...... All I can say is "hax"

2008 FO he was unbelievable. :)

But he had an even better comprehensive clay court season in 2007. The early loss in rome 2008 also might have left him a little bit fresher for his 2008 FO, compared to the near domination of entire clay court season pre RG in 2007. I see that as a negative for the 2008 nadal. Also in 2007 he put up some very nice w/ue all through the clay court season because he ended a nontrivial number of points at the net. That was the year where you saw the biggest improvement in his volleys.
 
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