Federer vs Davydenko Roland Garros 2007

[Deleted member 743561]

Sure, so let's discuss Federer, too! Just not his rivalry with Djokovic and his time-traveling rivalry with Borg!

That said, the 2007 RG semi reminds me of the 2007 UO final. On both occasions, Federer won a match in straight sets despite being under pressure for pretty much the entirety of all three sets. Ah, the benefits of confidence that domination brings. He must wish he could have bottled some of that form for the tight moments nowadays!

Fed's trophy speech after that '07 USO final was tinged with a degree of acceptance that a true rival of the future was present with him on that court. It was apparent that Fed knew the match was not entirely on his racquet.

 

[Tennisanity]

That's ridiculous. Novak was pushing Rafa on clay back then so there's no reason to suggest he couldn't take a set or two or even defeat 2007 clay Fed.

Matchups dude, matchups. Peak Novak from 2011 only took one set from old man Fed at FO.

 

[Tennisanity]

he would...cmon now.

I think 2007 Fed was much better than 2011 Fed.

 

[helterskelter]

Matchups dude, matchups. Peak Novak from 2011 only took one set from old man Fed at FO.

Sample size, dude, sample size. Federer winning against Djokovic at Roland Garros in one match in 2011 by no means proves he'd have beaten him in a series of matches at Roland Garros in 2011, and by no means proves that he'd win in straight sets in 2007.

 

[metsman]

I think 2007 Fed was much better than 2011 Fed.

off the baseline yes...but conditions were quicker in 2011 due to balls and Fed served out of his mind which mitigated some of the baseline differences. I still think Fed wins but in a tight 4 setter. If he played incredibly well maybe he could do it in straights but unless you are peak Nadal or Borg it's really tough to play incredibly well against top level opponents on clay for 3 straight sets. Even Fed lost sets to nalbandian in 06 and was pushed hard by davydenko in 07.

 

[Tennisanity]

Sample size, dude, sample size. Federer winning against Djokovic at Roland Garros in one match in 2011 by no means proves he'd have beaten him in a series of matches at Roland Garros in 2011, and by no means proves that he'd win in straight sets in 2007.

Umm you realize nothing proves anything on a tennis forum right? So why even ask for proof?

 

[Tennisanity]

off the baseline yes...but conditions were quicker in 2011 due to balls and Fed served out of his mind which mitigated some of the baseline differences. I still think Fed wins but in a tight 4 setter. If he played incredibly well maybe he could do it in straights but unless you are peak Nadal or Borg it's really tough to play incredibly well against top level opponents on clay for 3 straight sets. Even Fed lost sets to nalbandian in 06 and was pushed hard by davydenko in 07.

In 2007? No way 4 sets. Old man Fed took 4 sets in 2011. Quicker conditions maybe, but 2007 Fed was a hell of a lot quicker than 2011 Fed and with much more confidence against everyone not named Nadal. Confidence is the key.

 

[metsman]

In 2007? No way 4 sets. Old man Fed took 4 sets in 2011. Quicker conditions maybe, but 2007 Fed was a hell of a lot quicker than 2011 Fed and with much more confidence against everyone not named Nadal. Confidence is the key.

would he serve like he did in 2011 though? I mean if 2011 Fed played 2011 Djoker 10 times he probably loses at least 4-5 because you can't serve like that all the time. That's a huge part of why he won, so if 2006-2007 served like that..yeah it's probably straights but you can't assume he will. With an average serving day, 2011erer probably loses in like 5...with an average serving day 2006-2007erer wins by a similar score to 2011 probably but a little more convincing.

 

[Tennisanity]

would he serve like he did in 2011 though? I mean if 2011 Fed played 2011 Djoker 10 times he probably loses at least 4-5 because you can't serve like that all the time. That's a huge part of why he won, so if 2006-2007 served like that..yeah it's probably straights but you can't assume he will. With an average serving day, 2011erer probably loses in like 5...with an average serving day 2006-2007erer wins by a similar score to 2011 probably but a little more convincing.

don't think you can isolate it like that, i.e. he serves well or doesn't serve well. One thing begets another, particularly confidence. In 2007 his FH was still a rocket and he moved so much better around the court. All of those things would boost his confidence and in turn make him serve as well as he would need to take it in straights.

By the same token Djokovic also played amazing in that 2011 match but he just wasn't good enough to beat Fed. So perhaps in 2007 he won't serve as well, etc, etc. All those things even out, and Fed still wins in straights, because that's how it happens with Fed's level in 2007.

 

[NoleFam]

don't think you can isolate it like that, i.e. he serves well or doesn't serve well. One thing begets another, particularly confidence. In 2007 his FH was still a rocket and he moved so much better around the court. All of those things would boost his confidence and in turn make him serve as well as he would need to take it in straights.

By the same token Djokovic also played amazing in that 2011 match but he just wasn't good enough to beat Fed. So perhaps in 2007 he won't serve as well, etc, etc. All those things even out, and Fed still wins in straights, because that's how it happens with Fed's level in 2007.

Did you really think that Federer moved so much better in 2007 compared to 2011. He was 29 when they played that match. Djokovic will be 29 in a few months and he moves just as great as ever. Also, do you really think Novak played amazing in that match? He was pretty good but amazing? Nah. One of the his most important shots, his backhand down the line, was non-existent until the 4th set. He kept netting them on key points. Also, his serve wasn't as good as it is now and Federer was able to work his way into a lot of Djokovic's service games. Federer served out of his mind that day and hit like 18 aces. I don't remember Federer ever serving like that in any clay match and you think he would be able to duplicate that at will? Unlikely. Even so, they split 6-3 sets and Federer won two tiebreaks at 7-5. It's a 4 set win but misleading because either of those sets could have turned on just one point. So this Federer versus a firing on all cylinders Djokovic is a toss up. Federer cannot dominate Novak on any surface because he is just too good and vice versa. Him winning in 3 sets everytime against Djokovic is crazy.

 

[Tennisanity]

Did you really think that Federer moved so much better in 2007 compared to 2011. He was 29 when they played that match. Djokovic will be 29 in a few months and he moves just as great as ever. Also, do you really think Novak played amazing in that match? He was pretty good but amazing? Nah. One of the his most important shots, his backhand down the line, was non-existent until the 4th set. He kept netting them on key points. Also, his serve wasn't as good as it is now and Federer was able to work his way into a lot of Djokovic's service games. Federer served out of his mind that day and hit like 18 aces. I don't remember Federer ever serving like that in any clay match and you think he would be able to duplicate that at will? Unlikely. Even so, they split 6-3 sets and Federer won two tiebreaks at 7-5. It's a 4 set win but misleading because either of those sets could have turned on just one point. So this Federer versus a firing on all cylinders Djokovic is a toss up. Federer cannot dominate Novak on any surface because he is just too good and vice versa. Him winning in 3 sets everytime against Djokovic is crazy.

Oh yeah I think Novak played one of his best matches at FO semi. He had huge motivation to win as he was protecting his winning streak and could have won CYGS that year. His BH down the line was non-existent because Fed neutralized it, kinda like the argument Djoko fans use today that Fed plays badly against Djoko because Djoko doesn't always him to play well. Works both ways. The one thing I will give you is his serve is a little better now. But he was playing at an incredibly high level beating peak Nadal time and time again in 2011 (although Nadal was not at his best on clay that year).

In 2007, yes Federer was moving much better, he was after all only 25/26 then. He beat Djoko in straights at both AO and USO that year. Sure Djoko is better now, but with the evidence of 2011, I don't see how Fed would not also win in straights at FO that year in 2007.

 

[metsman]

Fed's trophy speech after that '07 USO final was tinged with a degree of acceptance that a true rival of the future was present with him on that court. It was apparent that Fed knew the match was not entirely on his racquet.

I think he realized that starting Wimby 07...combined with his decline and the emergence of Nadal/Djoker...you can tell how much that win meant to him and his speech. After USO 07 I knew the days of Fed completely dominating were probably over.

 

[NoleFam]

Oh yeah I think Novak played one of his best matches at FO semi. He had huge motivation to win as he was protecting his winning streak and could have won CYGS that year. His BH down the line was non-existent because Fed neutralized it, kinda like the argument Djoko fans use today that Fed plays badly against Djoko because Djoko doesn't always him to play well. Works both ways. The one thing I will give you is his serve is a little better now. But he was playing at an incredibly high level beating peak Nadal time and time again in 2011 (although Nadal was not at his best on clay that year).

In 2007, yes Federer was moving much better, he was after all only 25/26 then. He beat Djoko in straights at both AO and USO that year. Sure Djoko is better now, but with the evidence of 2011, I don't see how Fed would not also win in straights at FO that year in 2007.

Well he didn't play one of his best matches. He hit 45 winners and 56 unforced errors. Compare that to the 2015 Wimbledon final where he hit 46 winners and 16 unforced errors. That is a -11 ratio and even if I didn't look at the stats I would know he didn't play his absolute best. In all the matches they have played, Federer has never been able to neutralize Djokovic's backhand so that is false. He played at an incredibly high level that year but was not as sharp in that match. Most likely it was the walkover in the previous round that made him a little off. Djokovic moves the same at almost 29 that he did when he was 23 or 24 and I don't agree that Federer moved so much better in 2007 than he did in 2011. He beat a 19/20 Djokovic in straights in those matches and the one at US Open was very close with Djokovic having multiple set points in the first 2 sets. Federer would never beat Djokovic in straight sets when he is playing his best. Federer could serve lights out but Djokovic will always have the advantage the longer a rally goes on because of how solid and even he is off the ground. Federer is always at a disadvantage because of his weaker backhand compared to Djokovic's if he gets extended into grueling rallies.

 

[Tennisanity]

Well he didn't play one of his best matches. He hit 45 winners and 56 unforced errors. Compare that to the 2015 Wimbledon final where he hit 46 winners and 16 unforced errors. That is a -11 ratio and even if I didn't look at the stats I would know he didn't play his absolute best. In all the matches they have played, Federer has never been able to neutralize Djokovic's backhand so that is false. He played at an incredibly high level that year but was not as sharp in that match. Most likely it was the walkover in the previous round that made him a little off. Djokovic moves the same at almost 29 that he did when he was 23 or 24 and I don't agree that Federer moved so much better in 2007 than he did in 2011. He beat a 19/20 Djokovic in straights in those matches and the one at US Open was very close with Djokovic having multiple set points in the first 2 sets. Federer would never beat Djokovic in straight sets when he is playing his best. Federer could serve lights out but Djokovic will always have the advantage the longer a rally goes on because of how solid and even he is off the ground. Federer is always at a disadvantage because of his weaker backhand compared to Djokovic's if he gets extended into grueling rallies.

Yes he did play one of his best matches. Winners/UEs don't always tell the whole story especially the subjectivity in deciding what is a forced error vs. unforced errors. Yes he was sharp in that match as he was all year, he just ran into a better player 6 years his senior.

You are wrong about Federer not moving much better in 2007. Federer would easily beat Djokovic in straights even at his peak, heck he beat 3 times last year and he's basically a grandpa. Prime Fed would destroy him.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

I think he realized that starting Wimby 07...combined with his decline and the emergence of Nadal/Djoker...you can tell how much that win meant to him and his speech. After USO 07 I knew the days of Fed completely dominating were probably over.

What do you think... do you think equaling Borg at 5 consecutive meant more than the 6th consecutive to break him would have? I can't decide which would have been more meaningful to him.

 

[I am the Greatest!]

Did you really think that Federer moved so much better in 2007 compared to 2011.

I don't agree that Federer moved so much better in 2007 than he did in 2011. Federer would never beat Djokovic in straight sets when he is playing his best.

You watched tennis in just 2011? Are you serious? Just watching the highlights will show how Federer's movement has declined in 2011 compared to 2007, let alone if you watch his full matches. You have not to be watching Federer in his peak if you insist that his movement has not declined in 2011.

And 2007 Federer COULD straight set Novak at his peak. Everything is possible.

 

[abmk]

Well he didn't play one of his best matches. He hit 45 winners and 56 unforced errors. Compare that to the 2015 Wimbledon final where he hit 46 winners and 16 unforced errors. That is a -11 ratio and even if I didn't look at the stats I would know he didn't play his absolute best. In all the matches they have played, Federer has never been able to neutralize Djokovic's backhand so that is false. He played at an incredibly high level that year but was not as sharp in that match. Most likely it was the walkover in the previous round that made him a little off. Djokovic moves the same at almost 29 that he did when he was 23 or 24 and I don't agree that Federer moved so much better in 2007 than he did in 2011. He beat a 19/20 Djokovic in straights in those matches and the one at US Open was very close with Djokovic having multiple set points in the first 2 sets. Federer would never beat Djokovic in straight sets when he is playing his best. Federer could serve lights out but Djokovic will always have the advantage the longer a rally goes on because of how solid and even he is off the ground. Federer is always at a disadvantage because of his weaker backhand compared to Djokovic's if he gets extended into grueling rallies.

FYI, djokovic had 29 W to 35 UEs in 2011 AO SF vs federer ( -6 ) and that was one of his best matches.

No point in comparing with grass where the W/UE ratios are much more +ve in general.

tennis.matchstat.com has djokovic at 40 W to 41 UE in RG 2011 SF (-1). His BH was susceptible that day because federer mixed it up very well. Their USO matches ( in 08,09 ) have had federer's BH being better than djokovic's , apart from a few other matches, so RG 11 is not the only match ..

federer did move distinctly better in 07 than he did in 11. 2011 federer would be equivalent of 2017 djokovic and that's still more than an year to go

FWIW, I don't think federer of RG 07 would beat prime djokovic at RG in straights , but just pointing out the above facts.

 

[NoleFam]

Yes he did play one of his best matches. Winners/UEs don't always tell the whole story especially the subjectivity in deciding what is a forced error vs. unforced errors. Yes he was sharp in that match as he was all year, he just ran into a better player 6 years his senior.

You are wrong about Federer not moving much better in 2007. Federer would easily beat Djokovic in straights even at his peak, heck he beat 3 times last year and he's basically a grandpa. Prime Fed would destroy him.

Keep living in your fantasy world but that would surely not happen in the real world on a tennis court. Sure he beat Djokovic in 2 sets in smaller tournaments but what happened in a big match where a lot was on the line? Winners/UE's do tell the story of a match and so does the break point conversion rate. This is not the WTA where stats are irrelevant a lot of the time. Just to put things in perspective...in the 2011 French SF Djokovic had a 45/56 ratio whereas Federer had a 55/57 ratio. Djokovic had a 4/13 BP conversion rate and Federer was 4/25. In the 2011 US Open SF, Djokovic had a 48/35 ratio and Federer had a 49/59 ratio. Djokovic had a 6/12 BP conversion rate and Federer was 3/5. Djokovic was +13 and Federer was -10. You could make the argument that Federer wasn't at his absolute best there. Federer would never beat Djokovic in straight sets peak to peak and vice versa.

 

[NoleFam]

You watched tennis in just 2011? Are you serious? Just watching the highlights will show how Federer's movement has declined in 2011 compared to 2007, let alone if you watch his full matches. You have not to be watching Federer in his peak if you insist that his movement has not declined in 2011.

And 2007 Federer COULD straight set Novak at his peak. Everything is possible.

Not this 2011 argument again. How old are you? I'm sure I've been watching tennis longer. I didn't see a decline in Federer's movement in those 4 years. Of course now there is an obvious decline in his movement but from 25 to 29, no I didn't notice any substantial decline in the way he moved on the court. Maybe he could straight set him in Dubai or Cincinnati but in a best of 5, no way.

 

[Tennisanity]

Keep living in your fantasy world but that would surely not happen in the real world on a tennis court. Sure he beat Djokovic in 2 sets in smaller tournaments but what happened in a big match where a lot was on the line? Winners/UE's do tell the story of a match and so does the break point conversion rate. This is not the WTA where stats are irrelevant a lot of the time. Just to put things in perspective...in the 2011 French SF Djokovic had a 45/56 ratio whereas Federer had a 55/57 ratio. Djokovic had a 4/13 BP conversion rate and Federer was 4/25. In the 2011 US Open SF, Djokovic had a 48/35 ratio and Federer had a 49/59 ratio. Djokovic had a 6/12 BP conversion rate and Federer was 3/5. Djokovic was +13 and Federer was -10. You could make the argument that Federer wasn't at his absolute best there. Federer would never beat Djokovic in straight sets peak to peak and vice versa.

I'm not living in a fantasy world, you are. It would happen on a tennis court. No Winner's UEs do not tell the whole story. Bottom line is peak Fed >>>>>>> peak Djoko on any surface, except slow AO 08 and after where it would go to 5.

 

[swordtennis]

I'm not living in a fantasy world, you are. It would happen on a tennis court. No Winner's UEs do not tell the whole story. Bottom line is peak Fed >>>>>>> peak Djoko on any surface, except slow AO 08 and after where it would go to 5.

 

[Tennisanity]

Pathetic.

 

[Emperor of Belgrade]

Federer having a chance at plexi but Djokovic having no chance at other surfaces is a very fanboyish statement, even if it is a pointless hypothetical.

Anyway, I really miss Saint Nicolay.

 

[NoleFam]

FYI, djokovic had 29 W to 35 UEs in 2011 AO SF vs federer ( -6 ) and that was one of his best matches.

No point in comparing with grass where the W/UE ratios are much more +ve in general.

tennis.matchstat.com has djokovic at 40 W to 41 UE in RG 2011 SF (-1). His BH was susceptible that day because federer mixed it up very well. Their USO matches ( in 08,09 ) have had federer's BH being better than djokovic's , apart from a few other matches, so RG 11 is not the only match ..

federer did move distinctly better in 07 than he did in 11. 2011 federer would be equivalent of 2017 djokovic and that's still more than an year to go

FWIW, I don't think federer of RG 07 would beat prime djokovic at RG in straights , but just pointing out the above facts.

Compared to Federer who was 30/44, he was pretty good. tennis.matchstat.com's stats are incorrect. Federer always mixes it up against Novak so surely I don't think that caught him by surprise. When has Roger Federer's backhand ever been better than Novak Djokovic's backhand? He has one of the best, if not the best, two handed backhand on tour. You are reaching.

 

[NoleFam]

I'm not living in a fantasy world, you are. It would happen on a tennis court. No Winner's UEs do not tell the whole story. Bottom line is peak Fed >>>>>>> peak Djoko on any surface, except slow AO 08 and after where it would go to 5.

Ok. Like I said you're living in a fantasy. I thought the argument was that peak Fed would straight set peak Djokovic but then you've completely went off the deep end. Their US Open clashes should be evidence enough that you're wrong...

2007- (26 yo Fed/20 yo Djokovic) 7-6 7-6 6-4 Fed
2008- (27 yo Fed/21 yo Djokovic) 6-3 5-7 7-5 6-2 Fed
2009- (28 yo Fed/22 yo Djokovic) 7-6 7-5 7-5 Fed
2010- (29 yo Fed/23 yo Djokovic) 5-7 6-1 5-7 6-2 7-5 Djokovic
2011- (30 yo Fed/24 yo Djokovic) 6-7 4-6 6-3 6-2 7-5 Djokovic
2015- (34 yo Fed/28 yo Djokovic) 6-4 5-7 6-4 6-4 Djokovic

All of those matches were close whether it was pre-prime Djokovic versus prime Federer or prime Djokovic versus post-prime Federer, and you think peak Federer would straight peak Djokovic when he is playing better today than he's ever played? Or that peak Federer is without a doubt greater than peak Djokovic on this surface? Good luck with that. I'm not even sure we've see peak Djokovic yet.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

I'm not even sure we've see peak Djokovic yet.

That would be insane if we haven't.

 

[InsideOut900]

Yes he did play one of his best matches. Winners/UEs don't always tell the whole story especially the subjectivity in deciding what is a forced error vs. unforced errors. Yes he was sharp in that match as he was all year, he just ran into a better player 6 years his senior.

You are wrong about Federer not moving much better in 2007. Federer would easily beat Djokovic in straights even at his peak, heck he beat 3 times last year and he's basically a grandpa. Prime Fed would destroy him.

You didn't even bother seeing the first 2 sets before commenting on them. You took others' opinions for granted or you simply don't remember what happened in there.
Djokovic made a bunch of unforced in the first 2 sets,he was truly on from the last 2 sets. What was the scoreline again? 6-3 7-6 IIRC. Yep,Federer hardly won the 4th set after Djokovic was serving for it. That was the true difference between the both peak to peak. Had Djokovic played at that level the entire match I do not doubt he would have won perhaps even in 4 sets.

 

[uliks]

I think he realized that starting Wimby 07...combined with his decline and the emergence of Nadal/Djoker...you can tell how much that win meant to him and his speech. After USO 07 I knew the days of Fed completely dominating were probably over.

Yeah, to bad Federer declined in 07 at the age of 25, otherwise he could've sit at around 30 slams by now.

 

[Tennisanity]

Ok. Like I said you're living in a fantasy. I thought the argument was that peak Fed would straight set peak Djokovic but then you've completely went off the deep end. Their US Open clashes should be evidence enough that you're wrong...

2007- (26 yo Fed/20 yo Djokovic) 7-6 7-6 6-4 Fed
2008- (27 yo Fed/21 yo Djokovic) 6-3 5-7 7-5 6-2 Fed
2009- (28 yo Fed/22 yo Djokovic) 7-6 7-5 7-5 Fed
2010- (29 yo Fed/23 yo Djokovic) 5-7 6-1 5-7 6-2 7-5 Djokovic
2011- (30 yo Fed/24 yo Djokovic) 6-7 4-6 6-3 6-2 7-5 Djokovic
2015- (34 yo Fed/28 yo Djokovic) 6-4 5-7 6-4 6-4 Djokovic

All of those matches were close whether it was pre-prime Djokovic versus prime Federer or prime Djokovic versus post-prime Federer, and you think peak Federer would straight peak Djokovic when he is playing better today than he's ever played? Or that peak Federer is without a doubt greater than peak Djokovic on this surface? Good luck with that. I'm not even sure we've see peak Djokovic yet.

No, I am not living in a fantasy world, you are. FO2011 took old man Fed 4 sets to beat peak Djoko. Ergo Peak Fed would wipe out peak Djoko in 3. FO is all that matters, not USO.

 

[Tennisanity]

You didn't even bother seeing the first 2 sets before commenting on them. You took others' opinions for granted or you simply don't remember what happened in there.
Djokovic made a bunch of unforced in the first 2 sets,he was truly on from the last 2 sets. What was the scoreline again? 6-3 7-6 IIRC. Yep,Federer hardly won the 4th set after Djokovic was serving for it. That was the true difference between the both peak to peak. Had Djokovic played at that level the entire match I do not doubt he would have won perhaps even in 4 sets.

What the hell are you talking about, I watched that match twice fella. Djokovic played the match of his life and lost to old man Fed, deal with it son.

 

[uliks]

I'm not even sure we've see peak Djokovic yet.

The funniest thing is that he is peaking at 28-29, the same age when Federer was already called by his fans to be heavily declined, old and washed up, when his defeats didn't count anymore, while his wins count for double and were the ultimate proof that Fed would destroy that same opponent in easy straight sets in his prime years ...

 

[metsman]

FYI, djokovic had 29 W to 35 UEs in 2011 AO SF vs federer ( -6 ) and that was one of his best matches.

No point in comparing with grass where the W/UE ratios are much more +ve in general.

tennis.matchstat.com has djokovic at 40 W to 41 UE in RG 2011 SF (-1). His BH was susceptible that day because federer mixed it up very well. Their USO matches ( in 08,09 ) have had federer's BH being better than djokovic's , apart from a few other matches, so RG 11 is not the only match ..

federer did move distinctly better in 07 than he did in 11. 2011 federer would be equivalent of 2017 djokovic and that's still more than an year to go

FWIW, I don't think federer of RG 07 would beat prime djokovic at RG in straights , but just pointing out the above facts.

also wimby w/ue stats are a joke

 

[metsman]

The funniest thing is that he is peaking at 28-29, the same age when Federer was already called by his fans to be heavily declined, old and washed up, when his defeats didn't count anymore, while his wins count for double and were the ultimate proof that Fed would destroy that same opponent in easy straight sets in his prime years ...

Federer was peaking at 23 the same age that Djokovic fans said he couldn't serve and was horrible in general. How about that?

 

[metsman]

I don't remember Federer ever serving like that in any clay match

Remember the 09 French Open final?

 

[uliks]

Federer was peaking at 23 the same age that Djokovic fans said he couldn't serve and was horrible in general. How about that?

Hmm, i'm pretty sure that Djokovic was 23 in 2011. That certainly looked like prime Djokovic to me

 

[Deleted member 743561]

The funniest thing is that he is peaking at 28-29, the same age when Federer was already called by his fans to be heavily declined, old and washed up, when his defeats didn't count anymore, while his wins count for double and were the ultimate proof that Fed would destroy that same opponent in easy straight sets in his prime years ...

You sure he's peaking now? Clobbering all these old, injured/broken-down, grade B opponents? '11 was his most impressive and magnificent season. He was 24 then.

 

[InsideOut900]

No, I am not living in a fantasy world, you are. FO2011 took old man Fed 4 sets to beat peak Djoko. Ergo Peak Fed would wipe out peak Djoko in 3. FO is all that matters, not USO.

The old man you talk about is exactly peak Federer If you can state 1 match in the last stages of the French other than the final in 2009 when Federer played like that, I would be glad. Djokovic at peak condition took out Nadal in straights twice is a small time spawn.He almost bagelled him 2 years later. If you honestly think that Djokovic was at peak condition in the first 2 sets is your problem,I won't argue any further. The last set was peak to peak and it ended 7-6 with Djokovic serving to take it.
Federer beating Djokovic peak to peak is possible and even probable,but stating crap such as "old man" or "peak Djokovic" doesn't work for me.

 

[abmk]

Compared to Federer who was 30/44, he was pretty good. tennis.matchstat.com's stats are incorrect. Federer always mixes it up against Novak so surely I don't think that caught him by surprise. When has Roger Federer's backhand ever been better than Novak Djokovic's backhand? He has one of the best, if not the best, two handed backhand on tour. You are reaching.

Just because djokovic's BH is better in general does not mean that federer cannot eclipse his BH in some individual matches.

Also both gasquet and stan usually get outclassed BH-BH vs federer in most of their matches ...

tennis.matchstat.com's stats are correct in this case.

they are taken from the official RG website. You are wrong.

https://web.archive.org/web/2012012...rros.com/en_FR/scores/stats/day18/1602ms.html

40 W to 41 UEs

federer was 35 W to 44 UEs in 2011 AO SF (-9), in any case nowhere near his peak level in that match.

https://web.archive.org/web/2011051...open.com/en_AU/scores/stats/day16/1602ms.html

-6 for djokovic, -9 for federer.

federer does mix it up on many occasions, but at times becomes stubborn and insists on dueling topspin/flat BH-BH ...in this match, he mixed it perfectly well ...

 

[abmk]

You didn't even bother seeing the first 2 sets before commenting on them. You took others' opinions for granted or you simply don't remember what happened in there.
Djokovic made a bunch of unforced in the first 2 sets,he was truly on from the last 2 sets. What was the scoreline again? 6-3 7-6 IIRC. Yep,Federer hardly won the 4th set after Djokovic was serving for it. That was the true difference between the both peak to peak. Had Djokovic played at that level the entire match I do not doubt he would have won perhaps even in 4 sets.

that's a load of BS. The first set was one of the highest quality sets ever ...djokovic's level only dipped at the starting of the 2nd set because of losing the 1st, but that's one dip in a close 4-setter.

1st set : djokovic , 14 winners, 10 UEs
federer, 18 winners, 12 UEs

3rd set djokovic whom you are praising to high heavens had 6 winners to 7 UEs

1st set was dead fantastic, federer won
2nd set was a dip from djoko with federer playing very well, 3rd set dip from federer with djokovic playing well , 4th one was even with both mostly looking to hold on their serve, federer took it.

https://web.archive.org/web/2012040...ros.com/en_FR/scores/stats/day18/1602ss3.html

that was very close to peak-to-peak match b/w them and federer took it ...not unexpected considering he's the better player peak-to-peak on clay ..

 

[uliks]

You sure he's peaking now? Clobbering all these old, injured/broken-down, grade B opponents? '11 was his most impressive and magnificent season. He was 24 then.

Wait, you think that he is winning now only because of the quality of his competition. That he is feasting on weak era. You think that everybody got worse instead of that one guy somehow improved. WOW... Well this is new and original concept on TTW alright...

when he had that amazing streak of 43 matches, and was playing the tennis of his life in the first part of 2011 he was still 23...

 

[abmk]

also wimby w/ue stats are a joke

they are in many of the matches, from 2009 onwards that I've seen ..

 

[NoleFam]

No, I am not living in a fantasy world, you are. FO2011 took old man Fed 4 sets to beat peak Djoko. Ergo Peak Fed would wipe out peak Djoko in 3. FO is all that matters, not USO.

Well if the FO is all that matters, then Djokovic came back a year later and straight setted Federer right before he won Wimbledon for the 7th time. The sword cuts both ways.

 

[abmk]

Ok. Like I said you're living in a fantasy. I thought the argument was that peak Fed would straight set peak Djokovic but then you've completely went off the deep end. Their US Open clashes should be evidence enough that you're wrong...

2007- (26 yo Fed/20 yo Djokovic) 7-6 7-6 6-4 Fed
2008- (27 yo Fed/21 yo Djokovic) 6-3 5-7 7-5 6-2 Fed
2009- (28 yo Fed/22 yo Djokovic) 7-6 7-5 7-5 Fed
2010- (29 yo Fed/23 yo Djokovic) 5-7 6-1 5-7 6-2 7-5 Djokovic
2011- (30 yo Fed/24 yo Djokovic) 6-7 4-6 6-3 6-2 7-5 Djokovic
2015- (34 yo Fed/28 yo Djokovic) 6-4 5-7 6-4 6-4 Djokovic

All of those matches were close whether it was pre-prime Djokovic versus prime Federer or prime Djokovic versus post-prime Federer, and you think peak Federer would straight peak Djokovic when he is playing better today than he's ever played? Or that peak Federer is without a doubt greater than peak Djokovic on this surface? Good luck with that. I'm not even sure we've see peak Djokovic yet.

how the hell is djokovic winning one set combined in 07-09 remotely the same as federer having MPs in 10, 11 in 15, the match was still closer than any of their 1st 3 encounters ? some delusions ..

federer's peak at the USO >> djokovic's peak at the USO, its unquestionable .....

 

[NoleFam]

Remember the 09 French Open final?

16 aces against Robin Soderling who is not a good returner versus 18 aces against Djokovic is not the same.

 

[vanioMan]

Whenever somebody starts the endless Fed-Nole debate...

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Wait, you think that he is winning now only because of the quality of his competition. That he is feasting on weak era. You think that everybody got worse instead of that one guy somehow improved. WOW... Well this is new and original concept on TTW alright...

when he had that amazing streak of 43 matches, and was playing the tennis of his life in the first part of 2011 he was still 23...

Nope. But you said he's peaking now "at 28-29." I definitely dispute that. Not saying he's winning now only because of weak competition, but it's not as impressive as when the competition was tougher. Feasting, absolutely.

 

[abmk]

16 aces against Robin Soderling who is not a good returner versus 18 aces against Djokovic is not the same.

16 aces in a match that was 6-1, 7-6,6-4 (79 points on serve)
18 aces in a match that was 7-6,6-3,3-6,7-6 vs a superior returner ( 141 points on serve )

seems about even .....

was obvious from watching those matches ...

 

[metsman]

Hmm, i'm pretty sure that Djokovic was 23 in 2011. That certainly looked like prime Djokovic to me

I'm pretty sure Djokovic was 23 for most of 2010...

 

[Emperor of Belgrade]

I'm pretty sure Djokovic was 23 for most of 2010...

He turned 24 in late May 2011. 39 wins of his winning streak were achieved when he was still 23. Of course, he was longer a 23 yo in 2010, but being born in May, there is no big lean towards one year.

 

[metsman]

16 aces in a match that was 6-1, 7-6,6-4 (79 points on serve)
18 aces in a match that was 7-6,6-3,3-6,7-6 vs a superior returner ( 141 points on serve )

seems about even .....

was obvious from watching those matches ...

once again Novak fans showing they don't have a functioning knowledge of tennis before 2011. Fed served 16 aces against a worst returner sure, but in a far shorter match too. Federer's serve was unbelievably clutch in both years...but in the second set of the 2009 final, when Soderling was finding the range that took out Nadal and the match was threatening to turn Federer steps up to the line and serves 4 aces to win that tiebreak. 4 points, 4 aces. Two at 128 mph and 132 mph to go from 2-1 to 4-1. Legendary stuff in the most important match of his career. Of course he served awesome in that 2011 4th set TB too