Federer vs Djokovic - 2014 Indian Wells Masters final

[Nathaniel_Near]

Primes, peaks, all interesting stuff, but how about current form.

Federer 1-0 Djokovic.


If Djokovic wins, hats off to him, because Federer is in substantially better overall form right now. The surface is neutral for both, who do well enough on high bouncing volatile HC conditions. Nole doesn't like this court as much as say Miami, because conditions tend to be more volatile and the bounce of the ball is a bit more vicious, so I don't see the speed of the court handing any advantage over to Nole and Federer has won IW 4 times (Nole 2 times).


Conditions and surface - neutral
Ranking and form over the last year - Djokovic but..
Recent form and especially form over the course of the tournament - Federer

Final pick - Federer.

But no winner here would be surprising now, would it.

So, take your pick.

 

[cc0509]

Whatever the result is, I'm very happy with Fed's result anyway. A loss yesterday or in the QF against players he's a pretty heavy favourite over would've bothered me, but I won't mind a loss to Djokovic even if Fed looks like the slight favourite. Obviously I would prefer he win, but I also think a Djokovic win would set up the rest of the season quite nicely.

At this point, Federer is surpassing expectations, but Djokovic hasn't really met his.

Djokovic has not won a slam since the 2013 AO. He has been going through a dry spell for a guy who is in his very prime, no doubt about it.

 

[Antonio Puente]

Except that history doesn't matter here because Nadal is out. We all know the only reason you're going for Federer now is because Djokovic is closer in the rankings. If roles were reversed and Federer was #2 with Djokovic down at #4 or #5 you'd be cheering for Djokovic.

And don't try to tell me that's not the case.

No, the mindset is different. Fed could win 3 tournaments in a row, but if he plays Nadal in the 4th, he will lose. If Djoker gets hot and wins 3 tournaments, he'll beat Nadal the next time they meet, and go from there. That's what history has shown. I'd much rather keep Djoker down.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Novak also beat Fed here in 2011. So he has that going for him as well!

 

[sunny_cali]

Primes, peaks, all interesting stuff, but how about current form.

Federer 1-0 Djokovic.


If Djokovic wins, hats off to him, because Federer is in substantially better overall form right now. The surface is neutral for both, who do well enough on high bouncing volatile HC conditions. Nole doesn't like this court as much as say Miami, because conditions tend to be more volatile and the bounce of the ball is a bit more vicious, so I don't see the speed of the court handing any advantage over to Nole and Federer has won IW 4 times (Nole 2 times).


Conditions and surface - neutral
Ranking and form over the last year - Djokovic but..
Recent form and especially form over the course of the tournament - Federer

Final pick - Federer.

But no winner here would be surprising now, would it.

So, take your pick.

I am tending to go with Djokovic on this one. Not by much, maybe 55-45. Djoker will do anything to avoid losing twice in a row to old-Fed....

Regarding the bolded, Fed really hasn't played with any of the usual suspects who bother him. I am not sure his ground-game is where it needs to be to be competitive with Djoker.

I am bit surprised that you mention that the surface is neutral -- i think it favors Djoker a tad more than Federer. Regarding Fed's 4 victories most of them (3 prior to 07 ?) were prior to the Nad-Djoker era...

The Dolgo match was a bit disappointing -- wind playing havoc with Dog. If Fed had won against a good Dog I might have favored him. Finally how's the wind situation today ? Fed to have the advantage in the wind, you think ?

 

[romeo8880]

All depends on Roger's first serve.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Hi sunny_cali.

If the surface favours anyone, then it might be Djokovic but like you say it's only a tad bit more, ergo, not so substantial to be making much of a deal out of it. In short, I think the terms of the bout are fair.

I don't know about the forecast for the wind but if there is a lot of wind then any slight court condition advantage Nole may or may not have will be wiped out.

I agree about the Dolgo match, it was a real let down. I was really hoping for some fireworks and a gripping contest. I'll be watching him along with Gulbis and Dimitrov very closely, especially during the clay court season actually.

 

[pame]

I am tending to go with Djokovic on this one. Not by much, maybe 55-45. Djoker will do anything to avoid losing twice in a row to old-Fed....

Regarding the bolded, Fed really hasn't played with any of the usual suspects who bother him. I am not sure his ground-game is where it needs to be to be competitive with Djoker.

I am bit surprised that you mention that the surface is neutral -- i think it favors Djoker a tad more than Federer. Regarding Fed's 4 victories most of them (3 prior to 07 ?) were prior to the Nad-Djoker era...

The Dolgo match was a bit disappointing -- wind playing havoc with Dog. If Fed had won against a good Dog I might have favored him. Finally how's the wind situation today ? Fed to have the advantage in the wind, you think ?

By that token, I take it that any players of the future who win titles will be less laudable because they would have won titles after the Djoer/Nadal era. That will be the only era which ever matters, right?

As for wind playing havoc with Dog.. you're right! I distinctly saw the wind blowing only on Dolgo's side of the net, whichever side he was on.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

All they are saying is that Federer winning IW titles before their (Nole/Nadal/Murray) real emergence is not proof that the court surface inherently favours Federer over those other players.

I think the results are strong enough though to show that Federer likes the conditions at Indian Wells, which aren't dissimilar to the old rebound ace at the Aussie Open.

 

[Djokovic2011]

People would start to take you more seriously if you stopped pretending like it's a sure thing that Federer is going to win. Clearly it's not. You're just pretending like it is so you won't be so disappointed if he loses, and will be ecstatic if he wins, as opposed to just being happy for example.

What's so wrong with me thinking Federer will win?

 

[Steve0904]

What's so wrong with me thinking Federer will win?

You're not just thinking Federer will win. You're giving Djokovic no chance to win and saying things like Federer has it "in the bag." Huge difference.

 

[Steve0904]

No, the mindset is different. Fed could win 3 tournaments in a row, but if he plays Nadal in the 4th, he will lose. If Djoker gets hot and wins 3 tournaments, he'll beat Nadal the next time they meet, and go from there. That's what history has shown. I'd much rather keep Djoker down.

Anyway, I don't want to talk about Nadal anymore seeing as how he's not relevant to the end of this tournament so I'll end it here.

 

[sunny_cali]

By that token, I take it that any players of the future who win titles will be less laudable because they would have won titles after the Djoer/Nadal era. That will be the only era which ever matters, right?

As for wind playing havoc with Dog.. you're right! I distinctly saw the wind blowing only on Dolgo's side of the net, whichever side he was on.

And who exactly said that ? :neutral: Are you projecting what's on your mind on to the rest of us ?

The implication of my statement was that it wasn't clear to me whether the surface favored Fed or Djoker more. Given that post-07 Fed has won the tournament once and the rest have won it more, it seems to me that the surface favors them more.

You should try harder to be sarcastic I was trying to suggest that Fed is a better wind player than Djoker (and obviously the Dog), and should it be windy I would favor Fed more.

Lastly - nothing would make me happier than a Fed win. I had all but given up on the old-man last year, and this year has been a pleasant surprise thus far..I am not ready to declare that Fed is back to GS winning form just yet...

 

[Djokovic2011]

You're not just thinking Federer will win. You're giving Djokovic no chance to win and saying things like Federer has it "in the bag." Huge difference.

Well I'm sorry mate but I can only go off their respective level of play during the tournament and the fact is that Federer's has been far more impressive to me. My mindset isn't even on Indian Wells now, I've already accepted that Roger will win tonight and am very much looking forward to Miami.

 

[merwy]

Well I'm sorry mate but I can only go off their respective level of play during the tournament and the fact is that Federer's has been far more impressive to me. My mindset isn't even on Indian Wells now, I've already accepted that Roger will win tonight and am very much looking forward to Miami.

Well I can understand you saying that (although I personally give Djokovic at least 50% chance to win), but if you think he's not good enough to win now, what makes you think he's good enough to win the tournament next week? If he's going to improve his level in such a short timespan he might as well start today.

 

[Rozroz]

Sooooo...
Anyone knows the wind forecast?

 

[Djokovic2011]

Well I can understand you saying that (although I personally give Djokovic at least 50% chance to win), but if you think he's not good enough to win now, what makes you think he's good enough to win the tournament next week? If he's going to improve his level in such a short timespan he might as well start today.

I don't think he will win next week. I'm looking forward to Miami as hopefully all the top guys[including Fed, DelPo and Ferrer] will be back and it should be a competitive tournament. Personally, like I said in the match thread yesterday, I think Djokovic is probably finished now. His heart just isn't in the game anymore, the fire's gone out of his eyes and his focus and mental strength have all but disappeared. To say I'm gutted about it would be an understatement but if there's one thing in life I've learnt it's that it's better to just accept things as they are. Anyway the guy's had a great career and I'm proud of all his achievements and he should be as well but we all come to the end of the line eventually and sadly that's what's happened to Nole.

 

[fednad]

Hoping it would be a good match.
Pleasure to see some Nadal fans here wetting their pants and wanting Fed to win fearing that a win over Fed would give Joker confidence and than he would spank Nadal's ***** later throught the year.
Political fans !!!!

 

[monfed]

Federer in 3.

 

[fednad]

Federer in 3.

Why is Nadal not in order of play for the final ?
Is he injured ?

 

[All-rounder]

Anyone know if there will be some flushing meadows type wind today.

That would be nice

 

[President]

Federer in 3, IMO. Wouldn't be surprised to see Djokovic win though, as Sid said earlier in this thread Federer hasn't had much of a test off the ground. Djokovic may be too consistent for him, though I hope Federer will win. If conditions are windy today in Indian Wells, then it'll be Federer in 2 quite easily IMO.

 

[Chanwan]

If Novak wins, Federer fans won't accept the defeat. They will say one of the following:

1) federer error turned up
2) Fed is 6 years older than Novak
3) Blah Blah

Fed fans always have that to cling on.

I have no problem accepting Fed defeats to Nole. He's a tremendous player and he's been the best player on HC for the past 3+ years. I love their matches, because as opposed to many Fedal matches, Nole's game doesn't turn Fed into ********. Quite often, they play well at the same time.

And in fact, I think Nole is one of the few players capable of beating Federer, when Federer is playing very close to his best - best example I can think of is the WTF-final 2012. I'm hoping for a similar match with a different outcome

But I do give the slight edge to Novak given the court and the stage we're at in their rivalry (Fed is old, it's not an excuse per se, just a fact) + I think Novak is more hungry for the trophy to really launch his season.

Edit: + Djokovic' return game was on fire yesterday. If it is again today, Fed will be in real trouble.

 

[All-rounder]

I don't think he will win next week. I'm looking forward to Miami as hopefully all the top guys[including Fed, DelPo and Ferrer] will be back and it should be a competitive tournament. Personally, like I said in the match thread yesterday, I think Djokovic is probably finished now. His heart just isn't in the game anymore, the fire's gone out of his eyes and his focus and mental strength have all but disappeared. To say I'm gutted about it would be an understatement but if there's one thing in life I've learnt it's that it's better to just accept things as they are. Anyway the guy's had a great career and I'm proud of all his achievements and he should be as well but we all come to the end of the line eventually and sadly that's what's happened to Nole.

You've made it past the acceptance stage a rarity with Nole fans.
:lol:

 

[Djokovic2011]

Lol I often see you referring to that WTF match in 2012 Chanwan.:smile: I take it that's one of your favourite meetings between the two?

 

[Chanwan]

You are giving me examples of defeats(to Canas and Haas) that occurred once or twice in Federer's career as odd losses. That is not the same thing. What I am talking about are defeats which have stretched across the entire career paths of Federer/Djokovic, defeats which should not be happening over and over again when Djokovic is in his very prime and Federer is long past it, especially at the slams. You can try and compute those defeats whichever way you wish but what it says to me is Federer is the greater player overall. I don't think there should be any debate about it, it is kind of a given.

Fed's age means Djoko, at this stage, should be beating Fed more often than not. He is. It doesn't mean that Fed can never and should never win another match vs. Nole. That may be the case vs. Nadal because of the added match-up factor. But against Nole, Fed pretty much always has a chance. And that does not diminish Djokovic as a player

 

[Chanwan]

Lol I often see you referring to that WTF match in 2012 Chanwan.:smile: I take it that's one of your favourite meetings between the two?

Well, I've seen them square off live against each other twice, both times at the WTF. And a live final is simply something special and it was a very well-played and highly entertaining match, where both sets were on the edge till the very last point played.

 

[Steve0904]

You've made it past the acceptance stage a rarity with Nole fans.
:lol:

What are you laughing at? Murray fans have nothing TO accept. Now that's funny. :lol:

 

[Chanwan]

I don't think he will win next week. I'm looking forward to Miami as hopefully all the top guys[including Fed, DelPo and Ferrer] will be back and it should be a competitive tournament. Personally, like I said in the match thread yesterday, I think Djokovic is probably finished now. His heart just isn't in the game anymore, the fire's gone out of his eyes and his focus and mental strength have all but disappeared. To say I'm gutted about it would be an understatement but if there's one thing in life I've learnt it's that it's better to just accept things as they are. Anyway the guy's had a great career and I'm proud of all his achievements and he should be as well but we all come to the end of the line eventually and sadly that's what's happened to Nole.

Stay grounded Djokovic2011. I would be very, very surprised if he doesn't win 2 more slams as a bare minimum. Have you already forgotten him winning 28? straight matches a couple of months back?
I said at the start of the year that I regard Djoko as the favorite to end up year end no. 1. I still think he has at least a 30 percent chance of that.

 

[Rozroz]

Well what's the wind forecast??

 

[sbengte]

But I do give the slight edge to Novak given the court and the stage we're at in their rivalry (Fed is old, it's not an excuse per se, just a fact) + I think Novak is more hungry for the trophy to really launch his season.

Edit: + Djokovic' return game was on fire yesterday. If it is again today, Fed will be in real trouble.

All of this. Saved me the trouble of typing.
I think Djoker takes this final. If he loses , however, I hope he seriously starts thinking about firing Becker.

 

[T-Noone]

IMHO its Djokovic in 3 or Fed in 2, no other result makes sense to me

 

[LazyNinja19]

Guys, how many more hours before this classic?

 

[FreeBird]

Guys, how many more hours before this classic?

Sava teen gante mere dost.

 

[FreeBird]

What are you laughing at? Murray fans have nothing TO accept. Now that's funny. :lol:

He is a Novak hater. Just read his comments during Wimbledon 2013.

I don't think he will win next week. I'm looking forward to Miami as hopefully all the top guys[including Fed, DelPo and Ferrer] will be back and it should be a competitive tournament. Personally, like I said in the match thread yesterday, I think Djokovic is probably finished now. His heart just isn't in the game anymore, the fire's gone out of his eyes and his focus and mental strength have all but disappeared. To say I'm gutted about it would be an understatement but if there's one thing in life I've learnt it's that it's better to just accept things as they are. Anyway the guy's had a great career and I'm proud of all his achievements and he should be as well but we all come to the end of the line eventually and sadly that's what's happened to Nole.

Dude, you are so pessimistic. There is a big difference between a pessimistic and a realistic.

 

[6-3 6-0]

I don't know if I can stay awake till 2:30 a.m.

 

[LazyNinja19]

Sava teen gante mere dost.

haha.. Happy holi Freebird!
I wanna watch this match, but i'm pretty drunk atm. I'm afraid i might pass out before it begins

 

[FreeBird]

I don't know if I can stay awake till 2:30 a.m.

Dude, I am staying awake till 10 AM for a week to watch all matches of IW and you can't stay awake till 2:30 AM? You proclaim yourself to be 6-3 6-0? 6-1 6-3 6-0 can go for three straight night outs if he wants to watch Nadal. :lol:

Anyway, happy holi to you too.

 

[FreeBird]

haha.. Happy holi Freebird!
I wanna watch this match, but i'm pretty drunk atm. I'm afraid i might pass out before it begins

Same to you, my friend.
No way you are making it to 2:30 AM. :evil:

 

[RF20Lennon]

I don't know if I can stay awake till 2:30 a.m.

Oh man! 2:30 AM? That's terrible. It'll be 4:00 PM for me. Just two hours ahead of California time!

 

[LazyNinja19]

Same to you, my friend.
No way you are making it to 2:30 AM. :evil:

I'm gonna take a nap now. So i'll try to wake up in a couple of hours to catch it.
I'll be supporting Djokovic. Feels weird , but what the heck. Watching matches is only fun when you're supporting one player.


6-3 6-0, you too Indian? Damn. This forum should be renamed ITW -Indian Tennis Warehouse
Happy holi btw. RF20Lennon you too

 

[6-3 6-0]

Dude, I am staying awake till 10 AM for a week to watch all matches of IW and you can't stay awake till 2:30 AM? You proclaim yourself to be 6-3 6-0? 6-1 6-3 6-0 can go for three straight night outs if he wants to watch Nadal. :lol:

Anyway, happy holi to you too.

Happy Holi to you and your family too

My trolling ability is nowhere near that other guy, so excuse me

*yawns*

 

[6-3 6-0]

Oh man! 2:30 AM? That's terrible. It'll be 4:00 PM for me. Just two hours ahead of California time!

Good for you. That's why I don't like North American HC swing

 

[HeeK_ILRF]

Hope fed win this.
The new racquet is giving him good sensations...GOO CHAMP!

 

[FreeBird]

I'm gonna take a nap now. So i'll try to wake up in a couple of hours to catch it.
I'll be supporting Djokovic. Feels weird , but what the heck. Watching matches is only fun when you're supporting one player.

Just found out that I will be leaving for Vrindavan to play holi along with my wing mates. Sorry Tennis, if everything works out as it is scheduled, my train leaves at 2:00 AM.

 

[6-3 6-0]

I'm gonna take a nap now. So i'll try to wake up in a couple of hours to catch it.
I'll be supporting Djokovic. Feels weird , but what the heck. Watching matches is only fun when you're supporting one player.


6-3 6-0, you too Indian? Damn. This forum should be renamed ITW -Indian Tennis Warehouse
Happy holi btw. RF20Lennon you too

Same to ya

Well, while lurking around here even I was surprised to see so many Bharatvasi as most people whom I know in real life are crazy about either cricket or soccer :shock:

 

[wrapitup]

I cant see anything but a Federer win here. Federer is playing his absolute best tennis here (that he is capable of at this age), while Djokovic is about 45% his best level. It is a miracle he is in the final playing like this.

 

[wrapitup]

You're not just thinking Federer will win. You're giving Djokovic no chance to win and saying things like Federer has it "in the bag." Huge difference.

He is right. Federer does have this in the bag, the way both are playing. Federer is even playing much closer to his peak years level this tournament than Djokovic is from his best level.

He is being a drama queen earlier in the thread about Djokovic's future prospects. Djokovic will be fine, he is just having a bad tournament. In the Australian Open and Dubai he played much better than here and just ran into a hot player, but here has been very unlucky to make the final with an easy draw despite playing rubbish.

 

[wrapitup]

Djokovic has not won a slam since the 2013 AO. He has been going through a dry spell for a guy who is in his very prime, no doubt about it.

The 2013 FO was a super unlucky loss for Djokovic and probably cost him another 1-2 slams (of the 3 played) in the interim due to the loss of confidence and momentum. He will get it back this year though. I am sure he has 1 or 2 slam wins in his this year.

 

[RF20Lennon]

I'm gonna take a nap now. So i'll try to wake up in a couple of hours to catch it.
I'll be supporting Djokovic. Feels weird , but what the heck. Watching matches is only fun when you're supporting one player.


6-3 6-0, you too Indian? Damn. This forum should be renamed ITW -Indian Tennis Warehouse
Happy holi btw. RF20Lennon you too

Thanks mate! Hope you guys had a good one in India! But staying up for matches can be quite fun!