Federer Vs Djokovic-Some Observations

[SublimeTennis]

Just watched Aussie Open Semi.

I had heard that Djokovic played his best, took him at his word, then watched the match. This post is taking nothing from Djokovic so you Zealots need not chime in.

Djokovic is a great slow court player and played well, but Fed lost that match, I've never seen him play like that and I do not understand it. And don't tell me that Djoko forced Fed into all of those errors, some of course, but simply watch the entire match, Fed gets a normal shot to his forehand, drives it into the net or two feet long, it's one thing to create errors, quite another when they come right to you.

I don't understand Fed, it's like he's throwing the match, the commentators said "Is it Djokovic forcing errors or Fed afraid", "Perhaps a bit of both", it was a ridiculous match, like me playing my son, if I hit long enough I know he'll hit an error, that was Djokovic first two sets, he just played until Fed hit a ridiculous error. As I say watch the match and be intelligently honest with yourself.

Next point, going forward is a choice, no one can force you to stay back, you want to go forward you go forward, yet Fed baselines with a master baseliner, why? Second, every serve and volleyer knows the first, most basic rule of going forward, you NEVER just go forward, you hit a shot that moves your opponent out of position FIRST, and then move forward, this has driven me crazy since Fed has decided to go forward more, Fed hits a shot RIGHT TO DJOKOVIC'S FOREHAND, then moves forward and is amazed that he's passed. Watch ANY of the great serve and volleyers, watch Sampras, Mac, they move their opponent hopefully into a awkward position and THEN move forward, I was taught that, teach my son that.

Their was something fishy about that match, either Fed got old real quick, is afraid of Djokovic and freezes up (Which many are saying), or he's throwing the match it's one of those three, just insane, what Federer can't hit a forehand anymore? Does he receive it right to his forehand so he doesn't even have to move and consistently hit it to the net or two feet long?

If you haven't seen the entire match I don't want to hear from you, but this is three times now, Wimby, US Open and Wimby that he's a COMPLETELY different player against Djokovic than others, he steamrolls through his competitors, everyone thinks he has a chance, a good chance, he gets into the finals or semi and completely changes his strategy, "OK so I'm facing Djokovic I'll just stay back, only go forward when Djoko has time to pass me".

 

[The_18th_Slam]

Serve & Volley simply doesn't work against top class opposition on slow courts anymore. It just doesn't. Federer doesn't really have much of a choice.

 

[PeterHo]

federer always underperforms against Nadal and has started to do that against Novak in the past few years. Nothing new here.

Succumbs to elite opponents but steamrolls the rest.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I'm no Ultron fan, but it wasn't Fed, that was total destruction from the world #1.

 

[NGM]

You should not forget that Federer's ground game is not that good anymore. Against anyone these days he misses A LOT from both sides. He needs his serve to finish points after one or two strokes. But against Djokovic it is not easy especially on slow courts. Even if he serves well the ball still comes back and it makes him nervours.

So Federer comes to play Djokovic being nervous. He knows he has to serve extremely well to have a chance because his ground game can not win him the matches. But how can he serve well if he feels so much pressure? It's so different from the past when he had so many weapons, if he doesn't serve well he can win from baseline if his ground game sucks he has serve. And even if his game totally sucks his opponents would make unforced errors to buy him time. But Djokovic doesn't make unforced errors unfortunately.

I don't think he can improve his ground game ever it would not be logical for an old man running like a rabbit to save balls so he still has to rely on his serve. And he has no chance to win over Djokovic in BO5 unless Djokovic's form takes a dip.

So if you ask me: if, say, in the next 2 years his form doesn't take a dip?

I would answer: Guys, you should welcome to the next GOAT. If Djokovic can maintain his level till 2017, he will break all of records and become the very best of all time and we should congratulate the Serb. We should prepare for that thing.

 

[SublimeTennis]

Serve & Volley simply doesn't work against top class opposition on slow courts anymore. It just doesn't. Federer doesn't really have much of a choice.

You might be right, but still entire tournament he held serve 98%, for that match it was at 50%, that is something Fed can control. Also winning less that 50% of first serves that do go in. He just looked old and tired, like he hadn't slept the night before or something, his pristine footwork was gone, hitting shots from weird position, much from Djokovic but Fed can always get in position. Fed even looks old, I'm 39 without a wrinkle on my face, Fed's forehead is a mass of wrinkles, folds near his mouth, I guess all that high pressure and sun surely takes it toll. We always imagine what it's like when a player gets "Old", a step behind, missing routine shots by a large margin, that's what he looked like, an old player.

 

[SublimeTennis]

Serve & Volley simply doesn't work against top class opposition on slow courts anymore. It just doesn't. Federer doesn't really have much of a choice.

You might be right, but still entire tournament he held serve 98%, for that match it was at 50%, that is something Fed can control. Also winning less that 50% of first serves that do go in. He just looked old and tired, like he hadn't slept the night before or something, his pristine footwork was gone, hitting shots from weird position, much from Djokovic but Fed can always get in position. Fed even looks old, I'm 39 without a wrinkle on my face, Fed's forehead is a mass of wrinkles, folds near his mouth, I guess all that high pressure and sun surely takes it toll. We always imagine what it's like when a player gets "Old", a step behind, missing routine shots by a large margin, that's what he looked like, an old player.

 

[jm1980]

Serve & Volley simply doesn't work against top class opposition on slow courts anymore. It just doesn't. Federer doesn't really have much of a choice.

When did Federer ever employ the serve and volley as anything more than an occasional change-up?

He is (and always was) a baseline oriented player like the vast majority of the tour. If anything he's coming in more than he did in his prime.

 

[SublimeTennis]

I'm no Ultron fan, but it wasn't Fed, that was total destruction from the world #1.

You can always count on people with a computer but no rationality to chime in, always amazes me how zealots ignore truth, facts and embarrass themselves.

 

[jm1980]

You can always count on people with a computer but no rationality to chime in, always amazes me how zealots ignore truth, facts and embarrass themselves.

Kind of like what you did with your dumb thread?

 

[SublimeTennis]

When did Federer ever employ the serve and volley as anything more than an occasional change-up?

He's a baseline oriented player like the vast majority of the tour. He always was. If anything he's coming in more than he did in his prime.

Yea I agree with that, I should have been more clear, he does play on the baseline much, but the last two years has been playing much more aggressive, remember the new Stefan Edberg new "I'm going forward much more strategy", we see it against everyone else, with Djoko he just stays back, fires shots to Djokos forehand you know what's going to happen, I guess we Fed fanatics can't bare that he is old and Djokovic is the dominant player.

 

[SublimeTennis]

Kind of like what you did with your dumb thread?

Good one, great insult, you really help the thread, if it's dumb then go on the smart threads where your intelligence can shine, we can't handle someone of your obvious intellect.

 

[MichaelNadal]

You can always count on people with a computer but no rationality to chime in, always amazes me how zealots ignore truth, facts and embarrass themselves.

As if I have a reason to pump up Perfect Cell. There's no way you can hate on what he did those first 2 sets, anyone would have lost them.

 

[SublimeTennis]

You should not forget that Federer's ground game is not that good anymore. Against anyone these days he misses A LOT from both sides. He needs his serve to finish points after one or two strokes. But against Djokovic it is not easy especially on slow courts. Even if he serves well the ball still comes back and it makes him nervours.

So Federer comes to play Djokovic being nervous. He knows he has to serve extremely well to have a chance because his ground game can not win him the matches. But how can he serve well if he feels so much pressure? It's so different from the past when he had so many weapons, if he doesn't serve well he can win from baseline if his ground game sucks he has serve. And even if his game totally sucks his opponents would make unforced errors to buy him time. But Djokovic doesn't make unforced errors unfortunately.

I don't think he can improve his ground game ever it would not be logical for an old man running like a rabbit to save balls so he still has to rely on his serve. And he has no chance to win over Djokovic in BO5 unless Djokovic's form takes a dip.

So if you ask me: if, say, in the next 2 years his form doesn't take a dip?

I would answer: Guys, you should welcome to the next GOAT. If Djokovic can maintain his level till 2017, he will break all of records and become the very best of all time and we should congratulate the Serb. We should prepare for that thing.

Yea you are right on this, I agree with about everything you said, Fed IS scared, funny how he brought up without being asked that he is not afraid of Djokovic or anyone else, why bring it up when you aren't asked, is he suspected that we suspect? No one likes insults on Fed and I'm not, my friend and I just agree, especially Wimby and US Open final he was playing nervous, scared whatever term you want.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

You can always count on people with a computer but no rationality to chime in, always amazes me how zealots ignore truth, facts and embarrass themselves.

No, I agree with him. It WAS total annihilation. I was happy Fed could claw back the one set. Maybe it was just Nole sparing him the blushes because he's so confident he can still beat him? Because in 2011 he was more ruthless and blasted through a better version of Fed. That match was uber-brutal actually. AO is just perfect conditions for Nole's game, really hats off to Wawrinka for challenging him there in a way nobody has been able to for the last few years.

 

[SublimeTennis]

federer always underperforms against Nadal and has started to do that against Novak in the past few years. Nothing new here.

Succumbs to elite opponents but steamrolls the rest.

Yea, and I think that other guy is right, unless something radical changes it's going to be Djokovic, he might run the GS table this year, whose going to get in his way? Murray, possibly if he's not tired, seems to me, can't prove it or anything but when I saw Murray beat Djokovic he was tired, just finished a grueling 5 setter, I've never really seen Murray outplay Djokovic but sort of wear him out, could be wrong though.

 

[jm1980]

Good one, great insult, you really help the thread, if it's dumb then go on the smart threads where your intelligence can shine, we can't handle someone of your obvious intellect.

It's not any worse than the one you wrote about @MichaelNadal.

The OP is one of the most idiotic posts I've read here in a while, which is really saying something. The pseudointellectual verbal diarrhea (littered with bad grammar, by the way) shows you aren't very intelligent. The "zealots need not chime in" bit, coupled with arbitrary dismissal of other posters' arguments using insults demonstrates you're unwilling to engage in an honest debate. This is nothing more than rant and you are looking for people who agree with you, making this thread worthless.

PS: If you are going to call people idiots, at least make sure you don't write like one. I think this little paragraph here deserves a nomination for the dumbest comment on TTW:

Their was something fishy about that match, either Fed got old real quick, is afraid of Djokovic and freezes up (Which many are saying), or he's throwing the match it's one of those three, just insane, what Federer can't hit a forehand anymore? Does he receive it right to his forehand so he doesn't even have to move and consistently hit it to the net or two feet long?

 

[Dolgopolov85]

He gets way too upset and worked up about Fed's defeats to Nole. I can't see the problem, frankly. Nole was just too good, plain and simple. How much does it take to just accept that and move on? I am happy Fed got this far in the first place after last year's loss to Seppi. He was grunting FFS against Berdych, he's in no shape to dislodge Ultron. Ultron's kryptonite is probably yet to be 'born'.

 

[MichaelNadal]

He gets way too upset and worked up about Fed's defeats to Nole. I can't see the problem, frankly. Nole was just too good, plain and simple. How much does it take to just accept that and move on? I am happy Fed got this far in the first place after last year's loss to Seppi. He was grunting FFS against Berdych, he's in no shape to dislodge Ultron. Ultron's kryptonite is probably yet to be 'born'.

Couldn't agree more really.

 

[SublimeTennis]

AO Analyst;

"Novak Djokovic bends Roger Federer’s mind.

It’s amazing how well Federer commits to his aggressive game style, torching the field to the finals of Grand Slams the past couple of years.

But then he mysteriously, even subconsciously, succumbs to the Serb’s intentions."

I guess that's stupid also, as I say any moron with a computer can come on and ruin a thread, funny how the "Stupid" threads have so many comment on it.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Some people take tennis waaaaaaaayyyy too seriously. Novak won bc he was better. He's better than everyone right now.

 

[SublimeTennis]

It's not any worse than the one you wrote about @MichaelNadal.

The OP is one of the most idiotic posts I've read here in a while, which is really saying something. The pseudointellectual verbal diarrhea (littered with bad grammar, by the way) shows you aren't very intelligent. The "zealots need not chime in" bit, coupled with arbitrary dismissal of other posters' arguments using insults demonstrates you're unwilling to engage in an honest debate. This is nothing more than rant and you are looking for people who agree with you, making this thread worthless.

PS: If you are going to call people idiots, at least make sure you don't write like one. I think this little paragraph here deserves a nomination for the dumbest comment on TTW:

What other arguments? How can I debate insults with no substance? Tell me genius and I will, personally I prefer to stay on topic, I don't go to threads that I do not like and insult it, that's called "trolling", you know a bored nothing to do person like you creating trouble or no other reason that to create trouble. Funny how everyone else is talking about it in sports yet you think it's stupid, probably attests to you more than the thread.

 

[I am the Greatest!]

Federer just played subpar, and Djokovic just played so good. You can't count on Roger's consistency these days. One match he's playing so well, then come tomorrow, meh. You know, that's just the way it is. Get over it.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

AO analyst is also saying Murray needs to win more first strike points as if it's all on his racquet and Nole has no part to play in it. Maybe the Nole fans are right and there is a need across the board for more respect for Nole? It's not like he can just get blown off the racquet if only the others got all their tactics right. Fed having to stay back more has to do with Nole's returns too. Too many such returns and it dents his confidence and he stays back even when he shouldn't. But that happens, it's tennis.

 

[The_18th_Slam]

When did Federer ever employ the serve and volley as anything more than an occasional change-up?

He is (and always was) a baseline oriented player like the vast majority of the tour. If anything he's coming in more than he did in his prime.

Did you even read my post or the one I was responding to?

 

[Stan111]

Novak just takes all time from him, and does no mistakes. Novak reads the majority of Feds serves and thats make Roger very uncomfy and tence. Fed is forced to play far beyond his comfort zone. Noone does it to him like Novak does. Thats it.

 

[OhYes]

I think Federer was very nervous, it didn't help him of course, but Novak was playing really good without errors. Federer clearly has an issue with Djokovic when Djokovic is serious, it blocks his creativity. Now I'm no expert (like Muratoglu) to say Djokovic hits ball some milliseconds earlier than others leaving Federer so little time to react, but that could be also the reason why Federer loses himself facing him.

 

[mtommer]

Djokovic is a great slow court player and played well, but Fed lost that match, I've never seen him play like that and I do not understand it. And don't tell me that Djoko forced Fed into all of those errors, some of course, but simply watch the entire match, Fed gets a normal shot to his forehand, drives it into the net or two feet long, it's one thing to create errors, quite another when they come right to you.

I think Fed is used to winning points much quicker and with most of the other players, he does. He can't do that against Nole and I see a lot of disbelief in some of the balls Nole is getting to and getting back.

 

[SublimeTennis]

I think Fed is used to winning points much quicker and with most of the other players, he does. He can't do that against Nole and I see a lot of disbelief in some of the balls Nole is getting to and getting back.

Yea I've noticed commentators, and as I say Fed volunteered without being asked "I'm not nervous against top players", paraphrase but yea of course Novak played great, but man watch the match, Fed played like what you imagine a "old" player would, he can hit a routine forehand, but when you are nervous it makes sense all of the errors, or serve percentage 50%, these people who have no analysis just "Novak played better" is no answer.

 

[SublimeTennis]

Novak just takes all time from him, and does no mistakes. Novak reads the majority of Feds serves and thats make Roger very uncomfy and tence. Fed is forced to play far beyond his comfort zone. Noone does it to him like Novak does. Thats it.

I've heard that argument, but watch the match, routine shots to Feds forehand, over and over going to the net or long, 50% first serve percentage, these are things in Feds control that have nothing to do with Novak, the fact that Novak played great just sealed his victory even quicker.

 

[SublimeTennis]

AO analyst is also saying Murray needs to win more first strike points as if it's all on his racquet and Nole has no part to play in it. Maybe the Nole fans are right and there is a need across the board for more respect for Nole? It's not like he can just get blown off the racquet if only the others got all their tactics right. Fed having to stay back more has to do with Nole's returns too. Too many such returns and it dents his confidence and he stays back even when he shouldn't. But that happens, it's tennis.

No one is taking anything away from Djokovic, I'm encoraging people to watch Fed miss routine shots, 50% serve percentage, holding serve 98% throughout tournament yet freezing against Djokovic with I just forgot his low percentage.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

No, I agree with him. It WAS total annihilation. I was happy Fed could claw back the one set. Maybe it was just Nole sparing him the blushes because he's so confident he can still beat him? Because in 2011 he was more ruthless and blasted through a better version of Fed. That match was uber-brutal actually. AO is just perfect conditions for Nole's game, really hats off to Wawrinka for challenging him there in a way nobody has been able to for the last few years.

Yes, but there is something psychological at play. Especially when Gilles Simon elicits 100 UEs, and takes him the distance... and Fed doesn't. I know all about how certain match-ups are advantageous, and this-and-that, but I think Fed gets "frozen up" now... Wim, USO, and AO are three different environments, and the outcomes were similar. Yeah, Djok tore him apart at the start of this latest encounter, but Fed should have given him a better battle than Simon.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Yes, but there is something psychological at play. Especially when Gilles Simon elicits 100 UEs, and takes him the distance... and Fed doesn't. I know all about how certain match-ups are advantageous, and this-and-that, but I think Fed gets "frozen up" now... Wim, USO, and AO are three different environments, and the outcomes were similar. Yeah, Djok tore him apart at the start of this latest encounter, but Fed should have given him a better battle than Simon.

Well, for one, Fed has never played a Simon like game which imo is quite effective against Nole because he forces Nole to take the game to him whereas Fed is throwing a lot of game at him and Nole just keeps running and redirecting. Secondly, that match was an outlier by all means. Nole was pretty destructive against Nishi. In the final, Nole didn't even play as well as in the semi and yet obliterated Murray. So the outcomes to me are not similar save the final score of four sets. At Wimbledon it was a pretty awesome version of Nole and Fed went toe to toe with him in the second set. But the sheer effort it took just to win the set told me he was not going to win the match. USO was a genuine choke because Fed had opportunities to beat Nole who looked off colour that day so I give that. AO I have already addressed. I still suspect Nole just let Fed have the third set for entertainment's sake and so as not to slaughter a great champion who nevertheless he simply doesn't fear anymore, not on the grand slam stage. I expected these sort of threads after the semi and had taken the pains to point out how many times Berdych let Fed off the hook in the QF. The stats are deceiving. Fed was not impressive at AO. Maybe against Wawrinka at USO but not otherwise in that tournament (so things could have looked very different had the match not been delayed by weather). Kohli said so IIRC. Only at Wimbledon did he look impressive but Nole has been pretty damn impressive too last couple of years at Wimbledon.

 

[metsman]

Well, for one, Fed has never played a Simon like game which imo is quite effective against Nole because he forces Nole to take the game to him whereas Fed is throwing a lot of game at him and Nole just keeps running and redirecting. Secondly, that match was an outlier by all means. Nole was pretty destructive against Nishi. In the final, Nole didn't even play as well as in the semi and yet obliterated Murray. So the outcomes to me are not similar save the final score of four sets. At Wimbledon it was a pretty awesome version of Nole and Fed went toe to toe with him in the second set. But the sheer effort it took just to win the set told me he was not going to win the match. USO was a genuine choke because Fed had opportunities to beat Nole who looked off colour that day so I give that. AO I have already addressed. I still suspect Nole just let Fed have the third set for entertainment's sake and so as not to slaughter a great champion who nevertheless he simply doesn't fear anymore, not on the grand slam stage. I expected these sort of threads after the semi and had taken the pains to point out how many times Berdych let Fed off the hook in the QF. The stats are deceiving. Fed was not impressive at AO. Maybe against Wawrinka at USO but not otherwise in that tournament (so things could have looked very different had the match not been delayed by weather). Kohli said so IIRC. Only at Wimbledon did he look impressive but Nole has been pretty damn impressive too last couple of years at Wimbledon.

Novak hit 22 winners to 27 UFE against Nishikori....very destructive

 

[Bartelby]

The depth and precision of Djokovic's ground game destroyed Federer's ability to attack in the first two sets and then there was the poor serving.

Federer has to rethink tactics against Djokovic depending on the court and not think that playing his own game will be enough given that it provides Djokovic with the pace he needs.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Well, for one, Fed has never played a Simon like game which imo is quite effective against Nole because he forces Nole to take the game to him whereas Fed is throwing a lot of game at him and Nole just keeps running and redirecting. Secondly, that match was an outlier by all means. Nole was pretty destructive against Nishi. In the final, Nole didn't even play as well as in the semi and yet obliterated Murray. So the outcomes to me are not similar save the final score of four sets. At Wimbledon it was a pretty awesome version of Nole and Fed went toe to toe with him in the second set. But the sheer effort it took just to win the set told me he was not going to win the match. USO was a genuine choke because Fed had opportunities to beat Nole who looked off colour that day so I give that. AO I have already addressed. I still suspect Nole just let Fed have the third set for entertainment's sake and so as not to slaughter a great champion who nevertheless he simply doesn't fear anymore, not on the grand slam stage. I expected these sort of threads after the semi and had taken the pains to point out how many times Berdych let Fed off the hook in the QF. The stats are deceiving. Fed was not impressive at AO. Maybe against Wawrinka at USO but not otherwise in that tournament (so things could have looked very different had the match not been delayed by weather). Kohli said so IIRC. Only at Wimbledon did he look impressive but Nole has been pretty damn impressive too last couple of years at Wimbledon.

I don't think there's any such thing as coughing up a set at this level. Not in the SFs of a major, and not against someone of Fed's caliber. There were small things that might have made a world of difference though, like breaking Djok to take the the 3rd set, rather than blowing that opportunity and being forced to serve it out, which gave Djok first serve in the 4th. Even there, Fed had at him at 0-30 I think, and might have broken straight away. There was way too much on the line re Djok's legacy for him to cough up any free sets. Think he turns 29 at RG. Race against Father Time for him here. Fed was there... he'd just dug himself an impossible hole first. We all knew he needed to get out of the gates quickly, and it seems to me that there's some sort of hex preventing him from doing so against Djok, much of the time.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

idk, he seemed to step off the gas yesterday too against Murray in the third and still won in a tiebreak. Maybe he's just bored with beating even no.s 2 and 3 getting ridiculously easy.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Novak hit 22 winners to 27 UFE against Nishikori....very destructive

Stats don't tell the whole story. Nole was making Nishi play way out of his skin just to win the odd rally. So he didn't have to fire that many winners per se to win point. Same story yesterday, a lot of points ending with a loose shot from Murray after 20 strokes or so. This is Nole's style. Less flair-y than Fed but just as effective.

 

[metsman]

Stats don't tell the whole story. Nole was making Nishi play way out of his skin just to win the odd rally. So he didn't have to fire that many winners per se to win point. Same story yesterday, a lot of points ending with a loose shot from Murray after 20 strokes or so. This is Nole's style. Less flair-y than Fed but just as effective.

Yeah...not like Nishikori/Fed/Murray were missing routing balls left and right.

Nole's "style" works in a weak era where everyone sucks. The style he played with in 2011...yes more sustainable, but we saw what happened in 2012-2014.

 

[JSZ]

Djokovic is so good that Federer overplays. Everything is coming back hard and deep, even his first serves, so Fed goes for winners and misses.

Same as 2014 AO, round of 16 Fed beats Tsonga in straight sets, winner after winner. Semi 4 days later, versus Nadal, the same "winners" come back this time, hard and deep, Nadal wins in straight sets.

This year, Tuesday Fed beats Berdych in straight sets, a master class of variety and winners from Fed. Then Djoko in the semi - "winners" come back.

Fed dug so deep to get that third set, an amazing effort, but it never looked like he would win the match. It was a standard 1960 score line, winner won first two sets, dropped a bit and lost third, then closed out match in the fourth.

 

[metsman]

The depth and precision of Djokovic's ground game destroyed Federer's ability to attack in the first two sets and then there was the poor serving.

Federer has to rethink tactics against Djokovic depending on the court and not think that playing his own game will be enough given that it provides Djokovic with the pace he needs.

so what happened in the third set, pray tell.

 

[metsman]

Djokovic is so good that Federer overplays. Everything is coming back hard and deep, even his first serves, so Fed goes for winners and misses.

Same as 2014 AO, round of 16 Fed beats Tsonga in straight sets, winner after winner. Semi 4 days later, versus Nadal, the same "winners" come back this time, hard and deep, Nadal wins in straight sets.

This year, Tuesday Fed beats Berdych in straight sets, a master class of variety and winners from Fed. Then Djoko in the semi - "winners" come back.

Fed dug so deep to get that third set, an amazing effort, but it never looked like he would win the match. It was a standard 1960 score line, winner won first two sets, dropped a bit and lost third, then closed out match in the fourth.

Look at stats from the third set (since you guys can't process what you see with your own eyes) and compare them to the first two. Tell me where most of the difference was coming from.

 

[sureshs]

It is partly a mental issue with Fed - lack of toughness.

 

[JSZ]

Look at stats from the third set (since you guys can't process what you see with your own eyes) and compare them to the first two. Tell me where most of the difference was coming from.

Federer lifted and played his absolute best. Nole dropped off a little.
Stats show third set Fed got 57% of first serves in won 60% of them. In the second he got 59% in won 53%. The big diff was Feds second serve he won 73% of those in set three. And he made his one break point.
Stats don't tell you how difficult it was for Fed to cope with Novak's pace and depth, he just couldn't do it. His (Fed's) game hadn't dropped off in the days since he destroyed Berdych. Novak was just too good, that's all.

 

[torpantennis]

...Same as 2014 AO, round of 16 Fed beats Tsonga in straight sets, winner after winner. Semi 4 days later, versus Nadal, the same "winners" come back this time, hard and deep, Nadal wins in straight sets....

AO is all about day sessions vs. much slower night sessions. Federer steamrolls on day sessions, but then in semis the balls "keep coming back" due to the freakish slow conditions of the night session semis. Federer would be the favorite and easily beat Djokovic on day sessions, like in Dubai and Cinci in the two other fast speed conditions.

 

[metsman]

Federer lifted and played his absolute best. Nole dropped off a little.
Stats show third set Fed got 57% of first serves in won 60% of them. In the second he got 59% in won 53%. The big diff was Feds second serve he won 73% of those in set three. And he made his one break point.
Stats don't tell you how difficult it was for Fed to cope with Novak's pace and depth, he just couldn't do it. His (Fed's) game hadn't dropped off in the days since he destroyed Berdych. Novak was just too good, that's all.

So you really believe that Federer was making UFE left and right and serving 55% solely because of Novak's pressure? Sure.

 

[tennis_pro]

Yea you are right on this, I agree with about everything you said, Fed IS scared, funny how he brought up without being asked that he is not afraid of Djokovic or anyone else, why bring it up when you aren't asked, is he suspected that we suspect? No one likes insults on Fed and I'm not, my friend and I just agree, especially Wimby and US Open final he was playing nervous, scared whatever term you want.

I don't think he's scared, he's just nervous. He knows that he has to serve well to keep up with Djokovic so there's a lot of pressure on one particular shot. Back in the day when his serve wasn't working he was good enough from the baseline to have a good chance, right now with his serve off he's doomed + the fact that he can't play at a high enough level for more than 2,5 hours these days. It's still enough against Berdych, Ferrer or even Wawrinka/Murray for that matter because he can blitz them but against Djokovic he needs to play his A+ game for 3 hours to have a shot. It wouldn't've been easy if he was at his peak now, let alone now at 34.

But it's not about Federer. He's been there, done that. It's about the fact that we're still talking about what a player in his mid 30's has to do to beat the world no 1. I mean aren't there any other players on tour? Federer should be sipping lemonade now and watching the young guns battle for big titles yet it seems that he's the only guy with the tools to stop him which is pretty sad.

I mean was there so much constant talk back in 2004 what an old Agassi had to do to beat peak Federer? No, because there was an actual tour of guys like Hewitt, Safin, Roddick, Nalbandian and crew and it was their job to figure it out. Federer being too good for them is a different story.

When you reach a certain age there are just some things you lose and just cannot get back no matter what you do. Once you lose your speed, your reflexes are worse than what they used to be, your focus and fire get shot you just can't get them back, period. People really need to give Federer a break, he's been constantly chastised throughout his entire career, it feels like he always has to prove something.

 

[JSZ]

Look at what Federer said in his press conference.
>>>
Q. What do you think you were doing better in the last two sets that could have maybe turned this match around?
ROGER FEDERER: Well, I mean, he definitely maybe dropped his level of play just ever so slightly. But that's all it takes, you know. It's not easy to keep playing the way he was playing. You can't read all the serves all the time. I started to get a few more free points. I started to get more opportunities on his service games, as well.

Yeah, you know, just get into the match. Doesn't take much. Margins are small out there. Even in a match like tonight where the first two sets run away.

... Margins are small out there ...

 

[JSZ]

AO is all about day sessions vs. much slower night sessions. Federer steamrolls on day sessions, but then in semis the balls "keep coming back" due to the freakish slow conditions of the night session semis. Federer would be the favorite and easily beat Djokovic on day sessions, like in Dubai and Cinci in the two other fast speed conditions.

That could be a valid point.
But in the day versus Berdych Fed's fastest first serve was 206 kph, average first 187 kph. At night v Djoko Fed's fastest serve was 207 kph, average first 187 kph.
I think the biggest difference was the opponent, not the day v night conditions.

 

[torpantennis]

That could be a valid point.
But in the day versus Berdych Fed's fastest first serve was 206 kph, average first 187 kph. At night v Djoko Fed's fastest serve was 207 kph, average first 187 kph.
I think the biggest difference was the opponent, not the day v night conditions.

Federer himself said in an interview after a match I don't remember that it's a night and day difference between playing in day and night sessions. The key point I figured was him saying that because balls keep flying on day session, you gotta be much more careful and deliberate to not throw them long. So basically, due to fast conditions they can't swing as much "all-out". So don't be fooled by just ball speeds, the speed of the conditions themselves and how it affects play is the key.