Federer Vs Djokovic-Some Observations

[NoleFam]

This is what happened. Djokovic started that match like a madman. Very aggressive and ripping every shot at Federer, robbing him of time or positioning to impose his game. He forced Federer into so many errors and hit some amazing passing shots when Federer kept coming into the net. Then Federer started panicking and trying low percentage shots because Djokovic was destroying his 1st and 2nd serve. That was an immaculate 2 sets from Djokovic and your fanboyism would have to be pretty deep if you can't admit that. You know you played flawless tennis when Martina Navratilova, Paul Annacone (Federer's ex coach) and Brad Gilbert are on twitter talking about how superb you were. Also, Darren Cahill said he was at a dinner with legends Rod Laver and Ken Rosewall and Laver said it was the best 2 sets of tennis he had ever seen from a player in his life. When Laver says that, who are you to say otherwise?

 

[GabeT]

You are deluding yourself. We've seen this picture several times. Federer plays very well, even sublime, tennis (see what I did there) and then meets Nole and it all changes. It was Nole winning that match. Look at the number of shots by Federer that would have been winners or leading to errors from the other guy had he been playing anyone else. But Nole would return them and win the point.

 

[torpantennis]

You are deluding yourself. We've seen this picture several times. Federer plays very well, even sublime, tennis (see what I did there) and then meets Nole and it all changes. It was Nole winning that match. Look at the number of shots by Federer that would have been winners or leading to errors from the other guy had he been playing anyone else. But Nole would return them and win the point.

It was the slowazz night session that helped him on that. That wouldn't have happened in Dubai, Cinci or even on AO day sessions. Recent Federer-Djokovic results agree with this fact.

 

[GabeT]

It was the slowazz night session that helped him on that. That wouldn't have happened in Dubai, Cinci or even on AO day sessions. Recent Federer-Djokovic results agree with this fact.

I'm not saying Federer can't beat Nole. I'm saying that Nole played simply incredible tennis against Federer the other day, some of the best tennis ever according to several former pros who watched it.

 

[Rosstour]

federer always underperforms against Nadal and has started to do that against Novak in the past few years. Nothing new here.

Succumbs to elite opponents but steamrolls the rest.

It's not "elite opponents"--he only crumbles against the prime version of the current best player who is mounting a GOAT campaign. The only guys who have ever 'had his number' are two potential GOATs during their most dominant era...and even then, one at a time.

Nadal is no longer a threat to Federer and everyone knows it. He still destroys everyone else not named Djoko, and frankly Murray should be destroying Fed as Murray is obviously an elite player as well, yet he doesn't.

IMO one of Federer's greatest achievements is that he was able to remain the unquestioned second-best player in the world after exiting his physical prime, thru the reigns of TWO successive GOATs who are 5-6 years younger. No other great player has been able to do that.

You might be right, but still entire tournament he held serve 98%, for that match it was at 50%, that is something Fed can control. Also winning less that 50% of first serves that do go in. He just looked old and tired, like he hadn't slept the night before or something, his pristine footwork was gone, hitting shots from weird position, much from Djokovic but Fed can always get in position. Fed even looks old, I'm 39 without a wrinkle on my face, Fed's forehead is a mass of wrinkles, folds near his mouth, I guess all that high pressure and sun surely takes it toll. We always imagine what it's like when a player gets "Old", a step behind, missing routine shots by a large margin, that's what he looked like, an old player.

Absolutely, but Fed has always kinda looked like an old man. Even with the ponytail he never looked 'boyish'.

 

[SublimeTennis]

No, I agree with him. It WAS total annihilation. I was happy Fed could claw back the one set. Maybe it was just Nole sparing him the blushes because he's so confident he can still beat him? Because in 2011 he was more ruthless and blasted through a better version of Fed. That match was uber-brutal actually. AO is just perfect conditions for Nole's game, really hats off to Wawrinka for challenging him there in a way nobody has been able to for the last few years.

I still haven't been able to figure out exactly why Wawrinka is such poison or Djokovic, I do know that Djoko seems off balance and not in his groove with Wawrinka, perhaps that monster backhand which is like the average guys forehand, I don't know but I love those matches, you keep thinking Wawrinka will fall apart and back he comes, I loved the match he lost, very exciting.

 

[SublimeTennis]

I think Federer was very nervous, it didn't help him of course, but Novak was playing really good without errors. Federer clearly has an issue with Djokovic when Djokovic is serious, it blocks his creativity. Now I'm no expert (like Muratoglu) to say Djokovic hits ball some milliseconds earlier than others leaving Federer so little time to react, but that could be also the reason why Federer loses himself facing him.

Maybe, maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but it happens every time, not in Dubai, not in Cincy, Fed's an animal against Djoko there, but these big events, come on man normal shot to his forehand, doesn't have to move and he hits it two feet long, something is wrong when Fed only has 50% first serve points.

 

[SublimeTennis]

Djokovic is so good that Federer overplays. Everything is coming back hard and deep, even his first serves, so Fed goes for winners and misses.

Same as 2014 AO, round of 16 Fed beats Tsonga in straight sets, winner after winner. Semi 4 days later, versus Nadal, the same "winners" come back this time, hard and deep, Nadal wins in straight sets.

This year, Tuesday Fed beats Berdych in straight sets, a master class of variety and winners from Fed. Then Djoko in the semi - "winners" come back.

Fed dug so deep to get that third set, an amazing effort, but it never looked like he would win the match. It was a standard 1960 score line, winner won first two sets, dropped a bit and lost third, then closed out match in the fourth.

Good theory but how does that explain Fed's low first serve percentage? That's something he controls, only nerves or something else was going on.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Great post OP. I am sick of ppl making his age as an excuse. Yes it's a factor but he has beaten guys like murray and wawrinka. His play was downright pathetic. He looks intimidated out there. Robotic at times

 

[ACE of Hearts]

His play against novak's very predictable. His serve was utter crap. He has served better against novak.

 

[OhYes]

Maybe, maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but it happens every time, not in Dubai, not in Cincy, Fed's an animal against Djoko there, but these big events, come on man normal shot to his forehand, doesn't have to move and he hits it two feet long, something is wrong when Fed only has 50% first serve points.

There are nervous patches in his game surely. What is the reason ? Well we can't get into Roger's head and he will never tell us.

 

[VarmasPermo]

Just watched Aussie Open Semi.

I had heard that Djokovic played his best, took him at his word, then watched the match. This post is taking nothing from Djokovic so you Zealots need not chime in.

Djokovic is a great slow court player and played well, but Fed lost that match, I've never seen him play like that and I do not understand it. And don't tell me that Djoko forced Fed into all of those errors, some of course, but simply watch the entire match, Fed gets a normal shot to his forehand, drives it into the net or two feet long, it's one thing to create errors, quite another when they come right to you.

I don't understand Fed, it's like he's throwing the match, the commentators said "Is it Djokovic forcing errors or Fed afraid", "Perhaps a bit of both", it was a ridiculous match, like me playing my son, if I hit long enough I know he'll hit an error, that was Djokovic first two sets, he just played until Fed hit a ridiculous error. As I say watch the match and be intelligently honest with yourself.

Next point, going forward is a choice, no one can force you to stay back, you want to go forward you go forward, yet Fed baselines with a master baseliner, why? Second, every serve and volleyer knows the first, most basic rule of going forward, you NEVER just go forward, you hit a shot that moves your opponent out of position FIRST, and then move forward, this has driven me crazy since Fed has decided to go forward more, Fed hits a shot RIGHT TO DJOKOVIC'S FOREHAND, then moves forward and is amazed that he's passed. Watch ANY of the great serve and volleyers, watch Sampras, Mac, they move their opponent hopefully into a awkward position and THEN move forward, I was taught that, teach my son that.

Their was something fishy about that match, either Fed got old real quick, is afraid of Djokovic and freezes up (Which many are saying), or he's throwing the match it's one of those three, just insane, what Federer can't hit a forehand anymore? Does he receive it right to his forehand so he doesn't even have to move and consistently hit it to the net or two feet long?

If you haven't seen the entire match I don't want to hear from you, but this is three times now, Wimby, US Open and Wimby that he's a COMPLETELY different player against Djokovic than others, he steamrolls through his competitors, everyone thinks he has a chance, a good chance, he gets into the finals or semi and completely changes his strategy, "OK so I'm facing Djokovic I'll just stay back, only go forward when Djoko has time to pass me".

I have lost trust in pro tennis. Fed played like the match was fixed. So many tennis matches are fixed. I don't believe pro tennis. It is a joke.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

I still haven't been able to figure out exactly why Wawrinka is such poison or Djokovic, I do know that Djoko seems off balance and not in his groove with Wawrinka, perhaps that monster backhand which is like the average guys forehand, I don't know but I love those matches, you keep thinking Wawrinka will fall apart and back he comes, I loved the match he lost, very exciting.

Wawrinka to me is the most misread of the top guys. His backhand attracts 'traditionalists' and 'purists'; it is often said by Fed fans that a Fed-Wawrinka match would be a treat for the eyes ( cannot say I share that sentiment from watching a few of them). But really, his is the uber modern, uber slow court game and the backhand too is designed for the slow conditions (which is why he is distinctly uncomfortable at Wimbledon and not as much at home in USO as he is in AO). So he just parks himself deep in the back court and waits and waits until the ball has lost pace and is now descending and then unloads. Basically converts everything into a sitter that he can unload into. That's the general idea; of course he can, when it is required, stay closer to the baseline and hit on the rise but that is not his forte. The 'only' way then to beat him is to outpace him and give him no time. Can be done on the fast courts. Fed easily beat him last year at USO and I doubt the result wouldn't have been too different had Nole played him, maybe a closer scoreline but still a comfortable victory imo. But at AO and RG, esp RG, he has too much time and can just relentlessly unleash baseline bombs. Nole cannot hit through enough to overpower him; maybe prime Fed/Nadal could have done that, esp Nadal on clay. There's no way to compare because Wawrinka only got good as both guys were well past their best. But with Nole's style, he has a problem against Wawrinka where conditions do not help pace. Wawrinka takes going from defence to offence to an almost bizarre extreme...and it works! He said he was sick this year at the AO but I believe the slightly faster playing courts may have also disquieted him. Nalbandian would have been all over him and Soderling would have likely enjoyed playing him on clay too.

 

[metsman]

Wawrinka to me is the most misread of the top guys. His backhand attracts 'traditionalists' and 'purists'; it is often said by Fed fans that a Fed-Wawrinka match would be a treat for the eyes ( cannot say I share that sentiment from watching a few of them). But really, his is the uber modern, uber slow court game and the backhand too is designed for the slow conditions (which is why he is distinctly uncomfortable at Wimbledon and not as much at home in USO as he is in AO). So he just parks himself deep in the back court and waits and waits until the ball has lost pace and is now descending and then unloads. Basically converts everything into a sitter that he can unload into. That's the general idea; of course he can, when it is required, stay closer to the baseline and hit on the rise but that is not his forte. The 'only' way then to beat him is to outpace him and give him no time. Can be done on the fast courts. Fed easily beat him last year at USO and I doubt the result wouldn't have been too different had Nole played him, maybe a closer scoreline but still a comfortable victory imo. But at AO and RG, esp RG, he has too much time and can just relentlessly unleash baseline bombs. Nole cannot hit through enough to overpower him; maybe prime Fed/Nadal could have done that, esp Nadal on clay. There's no way to compare because Wawrinka only got good as both guys were well past their best. But with Nole's style, he has a problem against Wawrinka where conditions do not help pace. Wawrinka takes going from defence to offence to an almost bizarre extreme...and it works! He said he was sick this year at the AO but I believe the slightly faster playing courts may have also disquieted him. Nalbandian would have been all over him and Soderling would have likely enjoyed playing him on clay too.

yeah people who say GOATing Wawrinka is some kind of unstoppable force (to defend Novak basically) are so wrong. Good analysis of his game. He can really only hurt you and blow you off the court when he let him get in good court position and hit attackable balls. But if you pin him behind the baseline and get him moving side to side he is very vulnerable. But in today's one dimensional baseline grinder game he can feast on the rhythm and attack when opponents eventually drop balls short. He ain't no Safin.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Definitely no Safin.

 

[Tennisanity]

I think Fed is standing too close to the baseline against Djoko. Needs to back up a bit.

 

[djokerer]

federer always underperforms against Nadal and has started to do that against Novak in the past few years. Nothing new here.

Succumbs to elite opponents but steamrolls the rest.

Pretty much this.
Story of Federer's career

 

[SublimeTennis]

I have lost trust in pro tennis. Fed played like the match was fixed. So many tennis matches are fixed. I don't believe pro tennis. It is a joke.

I won't go as far as saying "Federer threw the match", and I don't think you are either, but yea if someone was going to throw it that's how it would look, very frustrating, that's the main thing, I think we forget, routine after routine forehand or back and Fed hit's it to the net or long, we all understand if he's in a bad position, but a shot STRAIGHT TO HIS FOREHAND and he constantly misses? We can only speculate, most have noticed as I have that Fed's face gets tight, meaning nerves, and he plays nervous, then he's down forgets about it and comes back, then folds. It could just be age, some with age lose reflexes, others speed, power, others still lose their nerve, just a theory, I'll still bet on Fed against ANYONE in a non-GS or even against Djokovic on fast courts like Dubai or Cincy, when it doesn't matter Fed blows him off the court which again tells me it's nerves.

 

[SublimeTennis]

Great post OP. I am sick of ppl making his age as an excuse. Yes it's a factor but he has beaten guys like murray and wawrinka. His play was downright pathetic. He looks intimidated out there. Robotic at times

Glad you see that, he does, he LOOKS NERVOUS, Athletes pay attention to that, notice that, boxers will look at their opponents face to see if their muscles are tight, tight facial muscles they are nervous, look at Feds face.

 

[SublimeTennis]

I'm not saying Federer can't beat Nole. I'm saying that Nole played simply incredible tennis against Federer the other day, some of the best tennis ever according to several former pros who watched it.

He always plays incredible tennis, that is not the issue, the question is what happened to Fed, 50% serve percentage, that has nothing to do with Djokovic play, it has to do with Fed's nerves.