Federer vs Djokovic . Who is greater?

Who is greater?

  • Federer

    Votes: 72 39.1%
  • Djokovic

    Votes: 97 52.7%
  • Even

    Votes: 15 8.2%

  • Total voters
    184

InsideOut900

Hall of Fame
I think we have to give credit to Roddick for winning that 2nd set. He played a great shot to break and then held his serve until the end. And that was a more focused Federer than in the Blake match that same tournament.
By all means. I have a written summary of that match and I came to a similar conclusion that Roddick played a really good set.

I am just saying I don't think he played worse in the first 2 sets of 2007 match and he still failed to break. Fed was worse in the 2nd set of 2006 match for sure.

Yea it's really the only approach he has to win. He has just hope Federer is off.
I don't know how off is off. Wimb 04&09 finals Fed was still prime level, just less than peak.

Generally speaking, I have a lot of respect for Roddick's best matches, however limited some part of his games were.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
By all means. I have a written summary of that match and I came to a similar conclusion that Roddick played a really good set.

I am just saying I don't think he played worse in the first 2 sets of 2007 match and he still failed to break. Fed was worse in the 2nd set of 2006 match for sure.


I don't know how off is off. Wimb 04&09 finals Fed was still prime level, just less than peak.

Generally speaking, I have a lot of respect for Roddick's best matches, however limited some part of his games were.
I think he was great in the 2004 Wimbledon finals and Roddick was just on fire. He was off in 2009 final imo.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Fed became way more vulnerable to big hitters in 2010 onwards, signs were already there in 2009 but he still had enough athleticism to win all the big matches besides the USO final.
And I know I might sound like a fanboy, but Federer played probably his worst matches of 2010 and 2012 against Berdych in those slam matches.

Toronto 2010 was such a satisfying win as a Fed fan against Berdych. To this day I am wondering how Fed pulled that one off.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Berdych is a better ballstriker than Roddick and Federer hated peak Berdych's ball. He's about the only player who was outhitting him multiple times from 2010-2012.
That's because Berdych was facing a much worse Fed in those years and in those slam matches.

Fed started struggling to big hitters in general after 2009, it wasn't just a Berdych problem.
 

ElisRF

Hall of Fame
I think he was great in the 2004 Wimbledon finals and Roddick was just on fire. He was off in 2009 final imo.
Off compared to matches earlier on but better than most later matches by a clear enough margin and still in his physical prime.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Berdych hit the ball very flat, Fed in those years just didn't deal as well with pace.
Flat hard strokes are hard to deal with for almost any player though because it's hard to get down low and time the ball. He hit flatter than Roddick as well. I also think it's just one of the more challenging matchups for Federer though, especially when Berdych was on. Have to remember he beat peak Federer at the Olympics in the 1st match they ever played. Had Federer down 2 sets to love at 2009 AO as well which was the beginning of his issues with dealing with him.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Flat hard strokes are hard to deal with for almost any player though because it's hard to get down low and time the ball. He hit flatter than Roddick as well. I also think it's just one of the more challenging matchups for Federer though, especially when Berdych was on. Have to remember he beat peak Federer at the Olympics in the 1st match they ever played. Had Federer down 2 sets to love at 2009 AO as well which was the beginning of his issues with dealing with him.
The Fed that Berdych beat in slams in 2010-2012 was worse than the Fed Roddick was dealing with. It is as simple as that.

That Olympics match was inexplicable from Fed, but I wouldn't consider that a sign of anything. Fed won 8 straight matches against Berdych after that one until he declined and became more vulnerable to big hitters.

I mean, by that token, Gasquet also won his first match against Fed, so it doesn't mean much.
 
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NatF

Bionic Poster
Flat hard strokes are hard to deal with for almost any player though because it's hard to get down low and time the ball. He hit flatter than Roddick as well. I also think it's just one of the more challenging matchups for Federer though, especially when Berdych was on. Have to remember he beat peak Federer at the Olympics in the 1st match they ever played. Had Federer down 2 sets to love at 2009 AO as well which was the beginning of his issues with dealing with him.
Fed was garbage in that Olympics match, like literally WTF garbage lol. Fed dealt with Berdych pretty well up until 2009, not really sure what Berdych changed between then and 2010? I think he improved his first serve, perhaps in 2010-2012 when he peaked he was hitting the ball bigger with more consistency? He always had a lot of power though.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
The Fed that Berdych beat in slams in 2010-2012 was worse than the Fed Roddick was dealing with. It is as simple as that.

That Olympics match was inexplicable from Fed, but I wouldn't consider that a sign of anything. Fed won 8 straight matches against Berdych after that one until he declined and became more vulnerable to big hitters.

I mean, by that token, Gasquet also won his first match against Fed, so it doesn't mean much.
Of course but Berdych's ballstriking off the ground is still a higher level than Roddick's and the level Berdych played during that time would have been a challenge even for peak Federer.

Yea Federer declined but Berdych also became a better player.

Gasquet is irrelevant. Lol.
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
Of course but Berdych's ballstriking off the ground is still a higher level than Roddick's and the level Berdych played during that time would have been q challenge even for peak Federer.

Yea Federer declined but Berdych also became a better player.

Gasquet is irrelevant. Lol.
I mentioned Gasquet just because you brought up Fed's first match with Berdych (y)
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed was garbage in that Olympics match, like literally WTF garbage lol. Fed dealt with Berdych pretty well up until 2009, not really sure what Berdych changed between then and 2010? I think he improved his first serve, perhaps in 2010-2012 when he peaked he was hitting the ball bigger with more consistency? He always had a lot of power though.
Berdych was hitting big and not missing much like he used to, plus Federer declined some. He matched up good with Nadal from 2005-2006 on hardcourt and Federer in 2010-2012. Beat Djokovic in 2010 Wimbledon as well.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
I personally found to be a high quality but generally people hate the style because of how serve reliant which is why Federer and Djokovic fans would mostly never agree on that match.
Not one of my favorite Wimbledon finals from what I remember of it. Not terrible quality either though.
 

Kralingen

Legend
Fed was garbage in that Olympics match, like literally WTF garbage lol. Fed dealt with Berdych pretty well up until 2009, not really sure what Berdych changed between then and 2010? I think he improved his first serve, perhaps in 2010-2012 when he peaked he was hitting the ball bigger with more consistency? He always had a lot of power though.
Really what happened to me is Fed’s return and defensive movement declined, very heavily, from 2007 to 2012.

He could still dial it up for bigger matches and on grass it wasn’t as severe, but Berdych was able to keep Fed guessing on serve and overpower him which almost no one could do to young Fed.

I have a feeling ‘12 Berdych could beat older Djokovic and Nadal too despite being their pigeons prime to prime. Well, maybe not Djokovic, lol.
 

ElisRF

Hall of Fame
Not one of my favorite Wimbledon finals from what I remember of it. Not terrible quality either though.
Djokovic fans don't tend to like finals like that as much as a Federer fan would so kinda understandable. I still think anybody who watched the match in a unbiased way would think it was at least a high quality final even if they found other W finals better to watch.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic fans don't tend to like finals like that as much as a Federer fan would so kinda understandable. I still think anybody who watched the match in a unbiased way would think it was at least a high quality final even if they found other W finals better to watch.
I don't remember it being bad quality. Just not one of Federer's best Wimbledon performances.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Really what happened to me is Fed’s return and defensive movement declined, very heavily, from 2007 to 2012.

He could still dial it up for bigger matches and on grass it wasn’t as severe, but Berdych was able to keep Fed guessing on serve and overpower him which almost no one could do to young Fed.

I have a feeling ‘12 Berdych could beat older Djokovic and Nadal too despite being their pigeons prime to prime. Well, maybe not Djokovic, lol.
Yeah for sure, he lost some reaction time and wasn't as good at turning defence to offence. When he got behind in points he tended to stay behind as the big hitters rather than being able to turn them around. More than the rest of the Big 3 I think Fed's peak game relied on his explosiveness, that powerful first step, the trunk rotation on the forehand etc...
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Yeah for sure, he lost some reaction time and wasn't as good at turning defence to offence. When he got behind in points he tended to stay behind as the big hitters rather than being able to turn them around. More than the rest of the Big 3 I think Fed's peak game relied on his explosiveness, that powerful first step, the trunk rotation on the forehand etc...
It's weird how that FH corner became a weakness for him even as early as 2008 or thereabouts. Even 2007.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
2 generations of players who have sucked in slams, the worst gens in slams. really good quality playera in slams of Z, Med, Tsit, LOLOLOLLLLLLLL. One guy hasn't beaten a top 10 guy in slams, one guy can't outlast a 34 year old&gets bounced in 1st round in next slam. Only in the delusional Djoko-lunatic world of ND guy.
when nadal played well, Djokovic got demolished at RG. (RG 20). djoko of course didn't face Nadal at RG from 17-19.

the only tough draw he faced from 2015-current is Wim 18 due to the Nadal semi. RG 21 was a little above average and Wim 15 was moderate. Rest all have been average or weak.

Djokovic in 12-14 was significantly better than he was in 19-current. Yet he won 3 slams in the former period compared to 6 in the latter.

15 was on same level as 06/10, relatively weak. even in that year, fed won 0 slams playing at similar level (a little worse at best) level compared to djoko in 21 in slams who won 3 slams.
but only in the la la baja land of djoko fanaticism, can 21 be anywhere near decent competition. with 15 being relatively weak, how weak was 21!?

yes, Djokovic deserves credit for maintaining himself, so does fed. But fed ended up with 0 slams in 15 compared to 3 for djoko.
and djokovic from post AO 19-current definitely isn't playing at a level good enough to win 5 slams out of 10 in any halfway decent field
Wimbledon 21 was on the weaker part, rest of the slams were strong oppositions. You are bullshitting like always. Djokovic played the most in form players he could possibly play in every slam and their forms before the slams happened backs that up aswell.

Djokovic is much more mentally stronger now than he was in 12-14 btw. Lets not ignore that. He was very inconsistent with problems in his game and confidence problems in bigger matches. His game and mental maturity is better now.

No, 2015 stronger than 2006 AND 2010 lol. Djokovic had to beat Murray and in form Federer at his pet slam and USO. Who did Federer face? Kiefer, Baghdatis, Roddick and Hewitt? How is that on the level of having to play Federer at Wimbledon and USO lmao!

You are delusional my guy and a sore loser with 1500 excuses
 

Kralingen

Legend
Yeah for sure, he lost some reaction time and wasn't as good at turning defence to offence. When he got behind in points he tended to stay behind as the big hitters rather than being able to turn them around. More than the rest of the Big 3 I think Fed's peak game relied on his explosiveness, that powerful first step, the trunk rotation on the forehand etc...
Funny that a lot of the prognostications about Nadal (knee issues, he will decline once he loses his athleticism, etc.) were actually more true about Federer.

I think he was in that “limbo period” post prime all the greats enter, where he was fundamentally not changing anything from his prime playstyle and form but just didn’t have the legs and timing to do it as well. We’ve seen it happen to post-‘09 Nadal as well and Djokovic saw it happen to him a few times in the past few years. I think Annacone didn’t really help in this regard. When you play all those guys 10+ times in your prime, it mean that they knew exactly how to gameplan against you, so when you lose a step things can go poorly bc you’re fundamentally playing the same game with inferior tools.

So then he was able to change his Fedberg style and get the bigger racket and be more aggressive Bc he knew he was dead from the baseline against great opponents. Nadal has done similar things post-2017 with Moya. Djokovic will have a similar dilemma in 2022/23 I reckon.

although all that being said he was still RF GOAT level shot maker. And I think the physical limitations wouldn’t have been exposed as much vs the “NextGen”. I.e. he was hurt heavily by his next generation being Djokovic, Nadal, Berdych, Murray, Stan, etc. rather than Thiem, Dimitrov, Milos, etc. obviously.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Funny that a lot of the prognostications about Nadal (knee issues, he will decline once he loses his athleticism, etc.) were actually more true about Federer.

I think he was in that “limbo period” post prime all the greats enter, where he was fundamentally not changing anything from his prime playstyle and form but just didn’t have the legs and timing to do it as well. We’ve seen it happen to post-‘09 Nadal as well and Djokovic saw it happen to him a few times in the past few years. I think Annacone didn’t really help in this regard. When you play all those guys 10+ times in your prime, it mean that they knew exactly how to gameplan against you, so when you lose a step things can go poorly bc you’re fundamentally playing the same game with inferior tools.

So then he was able to change his Fedberg style and get the bigger racket and be more aggressive Bc he knew he was dead from the baseline against great opponents. Nadal has done similar things post-2017 with Moya. Djokovic will have a similar dilemma in 2022/23 I reckon.

although all that being said he was still RF GOAT level shot maker. And I think the physical limitations wouldn’t have been exposed as much vs the “NextGen”. I.e. he was hurt heavily by his next generation being Djokovic, Nadal, Berdych, Murray, Stan, etc. rather than Thiem, Dimitrov, Milos, etc. obviously.
Mainly Djokovic and Nadal.

Wouldn't call him unlucky facing Berdych, Murray, Stan, etc. You have to face some good players in your career.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Wimbledon 21 was on the weaker part, rest of the slams were strong oppositions. You are bullshitting like always. Djokovic played the most in form players he could possibly play in every slam and their forms before the slams happened backs that up aswell.

Djokovic is much more mentally stronger now than he was in 12-14 btw. Lets not ignore that. He was very inconsistent with problems in his game and confidence problems in bigger matches. His game and mental maturity is better now.

No, 2015 stronger than 2006 AND 2010 lol. Djokovic had to beat Murray and in form Federer at his pet slam and USO. Who did Federer face? Kiefer, Baghdatis, Roddick and Hewitt? How is that on the level of having to play Federer at Wimbledon and USO lmao!

You are delusional my guy and a sore loser with 1500 excuses
LOLOLOLLLLLLLLL

djoko 12-14 was significantly better than post AO 19-current. only a delusional fool can deny that. ghanta his game and mentality is better now.
his game was certainly better back then and mentality is no better now. just that the competition was good enough to expose Djokovic back then.

djokovic was saving himself from 5-5 all 0-40 vs Murray in AO 12, from a break down in 5th set vs nadl in 12, saving 4 MPs vs tsonga at RG, saving MPs vs Murray at Shanghai in 12.

managed to win vs a hot Stan in AO 13, managed to stretch Nadal to a 5th set at RG 13, managed to win vs fed in Wim 14 by holding on in 5th set, edging out 3rd set TB vs a crazy serving fed (even with the 4th set choke, that's still a plus overall)
yeah, USO 13 final and USO 14 semi were mental lapses, but that's mainly it. djoko who got DQed in a mental anger in USO 2020 and who sucked vs med in USO 21 doesn't count?

as far as competition from after early 19 to current goes:
AO 21 was meh. med sucking in the final. Raonic&Z choking.
Wim 19 was average at best with RBA in semi and fed messing up big time in the final
AO 20 was like AO 18 - fairly easy till the final and a good, but not great final opponent (Thiem and Cilic respectively)

and lol @ your 2006 BS. no mention of Nadal in 2006, you pathetically shameless fraud?
no one sane thinks kiefer was a tough opponent in AO 06. Fed faced 3 opponents in AO 06 better than him - Davy, Haas and Baggy.
Davy played better than either wawa or Murray did in AO 15.
fed didn't even face hewitt in a slam in 06.

2006 Wim fed faced 2006 wim final nadal. similar level to 2015 Wim final fed that djokovic faced. Djokovic did face Anderson in 4R, but fed faced Ancic in the QF.
USO 06 final Roddick was on similar level to USO 15 final fed. Roddick with higher highs in the final (middle 2 sets) and lower lows (sets 1 and 4). fed also faced blake in the QF. better than anyone else Djokovic faced in USO 15.

also you missed fed facing Nadal in 2006 RG, a tougher opponent than anyone Djokovic faced in RG 15 - including Stan. but that is to be expected from someone who has his head up you know where (yeah, Djoko did have a tough draw in RG 15, no denying that)
 
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LOLOLOLLLLLLLLL

djoko 12-14 was significantly better than post AO 19-current. only a delusional fool can deny that. ghanta his game and mentality is better now.
his game was certainly better back then and mentality is no better now. just that the competition was good enough to expose Djokovic back then.

djokovic was saving himself from 5-5 all 0-40 vs Murray in AO 12, from a break down in 5th set vs nadl in 12, saving 4 MPs vs tsonga at RG, saving MPs vs Murray at Shanghai in 12.

managed to win vs a hot Stan in AO 13, managed to stretch Nadal to a 5th set at RG 13, managed to win vs fed in Wim 14 by holding on in 5th set, edging out 3rd set TB vs a crazy serving fed (even with the 4th set choke, that's still a plus overall)
yeah, USO 13 final and USO 14 semi were mental lapses, but that's mainly it. djoko who got DQed in a mental anger in USO 2020 and who sucked vs med in USO 21 doesn't count?

as far as competition from after early 19 to current goes:
AO 21 was meh. med sucking in the final. Raonic&Z choking.
Wim 19 was average at best with RBA in semi and fed messing up big time in the final
AO 20 was like AO 18 - fairly easy till the final and a good, but not great final opponent (Thiem and Cilic respectively)

and lol @ your 2006 BS. no mention of Nadal in 2006, you pathetically shameless fraud?
no one sane thinks kiefer was a tough opponent in AO 06. Fed faced 3 opponents in AO 06 better than him - Davy, Haas and Baggy.
Davy played better than either wawa or Murray did in AO 15.
fed didn't even face hewitt in a slam in 06.

2006 Wim fed faced 2006 wim final nadal. similar level to 2015 Wim final fed that djokovic faced. Djokovic did face Anderson in 4R, but fed faced Ancic in the QF.
USO 06 final Roddick was on similar level to USO 15 final fed. Roddick with higher highs in the final (middle 2 sets) and lower lows (sets 1 and 4). fed also faced blake in the QF. better than anyone else Djokovic faced in USO 15.

also you missed fed facing Nadal in 2006 RG, a tougher opponent than anyone Djokovic faced in RG 15 - including Stan. but that is to be expected from someone who has his head up you know where (yeah, Djoko did have a tough draw in RG 15, no denying that)
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
Wimbledon 21 was on the weaker part, rest of the slams were strong oppositions. You are bullshitting like always. Djokovic played the most in form players he could possibly play in every slam and their forms before the slams happened backs that up aswell.

Djokovic is much more mentally stronger now than he was in 12-14 btw. Lets not ignore that. He was very inconsistent with problems in his game and confidence problems in bigger matches. His game and mental maturity is better now.

No, 2015 stronger than 2006 AND 2010 lol. Djokovic had to beat Murray and in form Federer at his pet slam and USO. Who did Federer face? Kiefer, Baghdatis, Roddick and Hewitt? How is that on the level of having to play Federer at Wimbledon and USO lmao!

You are delusional my guy and a sore loser with 1500 excuses
Lets say 2015 was stronger than 2006/2010. We still need to debate 2004-2009 vs 2011-2016 as a whole.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Funny that a lot of the prognostications about Nadal (knee issues, he will decline once he loses his athleticism, etc.) were actually more true about Federer.

I think he was in that “limbo period” post prime all the greats enter, where he was fundamentally not changing anything from his prime playstyle and form but just didn’t have the legs and timing to do it as well. We’ve seen it happen to post-‘09 Nadal as well and Djokovic saw it happen to him a few times in the past few years. I think Annacone didn’t really help in this regard. When you play all those guys 10+ times in your prime, it mean that they knew exactly how to gameplan against you, so when you lose a step things can go poorly bc you’re fundamentally playing the same game with inferior tools.

So then he was able to change his Fedberg style and get the bigger racket and be more aggressive Bc he knew he was dead from the baseline against great opponents. Nadal has done similar things post-2017 with Moya. Djokovic will have a similar dilemma in 2022/23 I reckon.

although all that being said he was still RF GOAT level shot maker. And I think the physical limitations wouldn’t have been exposed as much vs the “NextGen”. I.e. he was hurt heavily by his next generation being Djokovic, Nadal, Berdych, Murray, Stan, etc. rather than Thiem, Dimitrov, Milos, etc. obviously.
If Fed's next gen had such one dimensional athletes as what Djokovic has had he'd have been just fine lol.
 
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