Federer vs Nadal 2007 Wimbledon Final - Post Match Thread

Sixpointone

Professional
To me this was a Classic match. When the day comes that it is available for sale on DVD I'll most likely pick up a copy.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
You are exactly right benhur, if the points start anywhere near even nadal will win the higher % of them.That is why he is the better athlete+tennis player, but fed is clearly the better server+that gives him a huge advantage on fast surfaces.

You are also right in saying how service winners are the cheapest points in tennis.That is why clay court tennis gets rid of the weak players with strong serves as there main weapon, such as roddick.This is when you have to have a real tennis game not just a huge serve + forehand.
 

Benhur

Hall of Fame
You are exactly right benhur, if the points start anywhere near even nadal will win the higher % of them.That is why he is the better athlete+tennis player, but fed is clearly the better server+that gives him a huge advantage on fast surfaces.

You are also right in saying how service winners are the cheapest points in tennis.That is why clay court tennis gets rid of the weak players with strong serves as there main weapon, such as roddick.This is when you have to have a real tennis game not just a huge serve + forehand.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of total games are holds vs breaks in the 4 different majors. Or, a less precise way but also indicative number would be to see what percentage of sets go beyond 7-5. My guess is that at the fast surfaces, service holds are between 80 and 95 percent of total games, while at Roland Garros they are maybe up to 70 to 80 percent. But this is pure guessing. I think a fairer and funner game would be one where the servers enjoy no more than a 60% advantage over the receiver. I know that at some point in the early 90s at Wimbledon the statistics showed that, at 0-40, the server still had better chances of winning the game than the receiver (men's game). That gives you an idea of how ridiculous the server's advantage used to be (and still is).
 
You are exactly right benhur, if the points start anywhere near even nadal will win the higher % of them.That is why he is the better athlete+tennis player, but fed is clearly the better server+that gives him a huge advantage on fast surfaces.

You are also right in saying how service winners are the cheapest points in tennis.That is why clay court tennis gets rid of the weak players with strong serves as there main weapon, such as roddick.This is when you have to have a real tennis game not just a huge serve + forehand.

I'll give you better athlete, but better tennis player? Nadal is clearly the 2nd best player in the world, and sometimes may be more consistent from the baseline, but when Roger plays his best, he's damn near unbeatable (unless it's Rafa on clay). I also don't want to hear about their h2h, because that's not an indication of better player (see Nadal v. Blake, etc.).
 

Keifers

Legend
^^^ I think he was saying better athlete+tennis player, right? Not better athlete and better tennis player.

I'm a big Fed fan, but I have to say Nadal was the better athlete and the better shotmaker today. He played fantastic and had every reason to think he'd win the match -- and to be disappointed that he didn't.

Of course, those weren't the only factors and Roger had to -- and did -- come up with some really good stuff to clinch victory.

Congrats to both men!
 
Last edited:

Keifers

Legend
During the on-court interview with Sue Barker, Roger said, "... Look, it was such a close match, I told Rafael at the net he deserved it as well, I'm the lucky one today."

Very classy acknowledgment of Nadal -- and of the reality of the match. Nadal had a very intelligent game plan and he executed it beautifully.

Fantastic match!
 

edmondsm

Legend
It was the best GS final I've seen in my short tennis life. There is no doubt that we were watching two of the all time greats, playing in one of the great matches ever. I hope Fed can do for the rivalry what Rafa did today and stretch a FO final to the 5th set.
 
BEST MATCH EVER!

I have seen better matches in terms of excitement and drama, but I have never seen that LEVEL of Tennis...EVER! These guys were unbelievable. There were at least 50-60 points that were "WOW, Unbelievable" If the ball wasn't totally put away, either one of them would not only get to it but put away a winner.

The difference to me was, Federer won the HUGE points....Down 15-40, double break at 1-1 in the 5th and he wins the game, down 15-40, double break at 2-2 in the 5th and he wins the game. From that point on Federer wins 12 of 13 points to go up 5-2....Game over! I can't remember how many times he had a break against him and served an ace. I think at one point late in the 5th they showed total points won at 152-152, so I'm not sure Nadal played better overall but I KNOW that Federer won bigger points when it mattered. He had what, 24 aces to 1 for Nadal....those helped and they are a part of the game.

Bottom line, I am a huge Federer fan and I am a huge Nadal fan and we are witness to arguably the beginning of greatest era of professional tennis. With all the young guns coming up, this will be fun.
 

AAAA

Hall of Fame
Chang, Hewitt and Nadal at their best are all really quick around the court. However Nadal unlike the other two has heavy weight power and can hit amazing angles with pace even when dragged way off the court. I'm sure that worries Federer and explains why he is reluctant to try serve and volley against Nadal. Today Federer did hit some great volleys but Nadal also hit great passes when way off court.
 

Keifers

Legend
It was the best GS final I've seen in my short tennis life. There is no doubt that we were watching two of the all time greats, playing in one of the great matches ever. I hope Fed can do for the rivalry what Rafa did today and stretch a FO final to the 5th set.
Well said. Rafa really stepped it up today and it's Roger's turn to do it next time. Perhaps we won't even have to wait for next year's French, maybe they'll play again at the USO?... That would be a real treat! :D
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Fed had 24 aces+nadal had 1 + you say those helped? How about the aces were the difference in the match.
 

muser

Rookie
Nadal's attitude is the one reason I don't like him. In every other department he has to be admired. Skill, speed and an indomitable will is what he displayed today and it nearly won him his first wimbledon title. I personally don't think nadal's raised his game as much as is being opined, rather federer is feeling the accumulative effect of being at the top of the heap for so long. This I fear is where historians will look back and say that was the beginning of the end, indeed fed admitted as much in his post match interview.
So what next for federer? Will he do a borg and cement his legacy and promptly retire early or wait until he's beaten in the fourth round of wimbledon to an up and coming prodigy before he thinks about calling time on his illustrous career. Which ever he decides, it won't tarnish the memories he's already given us.
 

caulcano

Hall of Fame
Finally we get a match in which BOTH players played great tennis. I didn't think I'd enjoy this match as much as I did. Mainly because in the past it seems that when they met, it was more down to one player not playing great.

Like Federer said, both derserved to win.


I still prefer the 2001 final (Ivanisevic v Rafter).
 

Keifers

Legend
Here's what Roger said about Rafa's game in his post-match interview:

"... he had more of a game plan this year than he had last year. I think last year he came out, nothing to lose, kind of hit hard but didn't know why.

This year around, he's changed his game a little bit. Plays maybe a bit more aggressive, knows the game of grass much better. That's why I think he's not only just a good clay courter, he's a good all﷓around player.

That's what's going to happen anyway in the future, that everybody will be able to play on all different surfaces because it's slowing down so much. It was almost impossible to get to the net from the baseline because you neutralize the opponent so well.

What I meant with it was just because he came so close today that, you know, I think he deserves a title here. You know, he's not getting any worse, I think. It was a tough match and I have the highest respect for him."
 

mileslong

Professional
Roger Federer won the battle but Rafael Nadal prevailed in the WAR!
care to explain that one? there has never been a greater moral victory in the history of tennis. great match to watch although it looked like they were playing at roland garros instead of wimbledon, those balls were bouncing like super balls out there...
 

FEDEXP

Professional
I could be wrong but during the tournament I recall that Federer's serving percentage could have been alot better. Whatever else he did (or didn't do) he certainly changed that around today.

Aces are "undignified"? Well, if you're talking about a player who only has a big serve, maybe so-but in terms of today's match- a foolhardy statement.
 

helloworld

Hall of Fame
I could be wrong but during the tournament I recall that Federer's serving percentage could have been alot better. Whatever else he did (or didn't do) he certainly changed that around today.

Aces are "undignified"? Well, if you're talking about a player who only has a big serve, maybe so-but in terms of today's match- a foolhardy statement.

No, this is his best serve performance in this tournament. Maybe ever in Wimbledon. He served at a higher percentage than Nadal, and Nadal was serving at a HIGH percentage.
 

TenS_Ace

Professional
great match, one thing for sure...Nadal's game is way better on grass than Fed's is on clay...look out!!
 

superman1

Legend
Federer's serve has always gotten him out of trouble in tough matches. As an Agassi fan, it always frustrated the hell out of me when Andre would make some brilliant plays from the baseline to get a break point, and then Fed would just wipe it away with an ace. It's really a thing of beauty, and it's an area Nadal needs to seriously work on, because everything else in his game is insanely good. He's starting to become better than Federer at certain aspects of his game.
 

Hot Sauce

Hall of Fame
I think Nadal played tremendously. I don't think Federer played that well, but I was really worried in the 4th set for him. It was a complete breakdown. The pace of tennis in Wimbledon is really slowing down, something I don't like. Roger even said courts are getting slower and slower every year. Federer's serve was the difference in todays match. Without it, I think he was outplayed.
 

Benhur

Hall of Fame
I could be wrong but during the tournament I recall that Federer's serving percentage could have been alot better. Whatever else he did (or didn't do) he certainly changed that around today.

Aces are "undignified"? Well, if you're talking about a player who only has a big serve, maybe so-but in terms of today's match- a foolhardy statement.

My comments have to be taken in their context. I am making the argument that the advantage of the server has grown steadily from the start of the game, due to changes in equipment and specialization by players. And it has grown to unhealthy proportions. The trend (on fast courts, in the men's game) was clearly headed to turning tennis matches into serving contests, and it still is. Aces, service winners and serves eliciting easily put away returns were in the old days much fewer and far between, and therefore could be appreciated better. Today, there are players who, when serving, are for all practical purposes "exempt" from actually playing half the points because of the way they put the ball in play. Even tv commentators call those "free points". Of course what they are doing is perfectly fair because it is within the rules. But there are way too many "free" points, and if tennis is increasingly reduced to serving, a lot of people will understandibly turn away from it. It is in this sense that a point won by the strength of the serve seems increasingly cheap and undignified. Nothing worth commenting on, except pehaps: "it's nice to have a big serve" and similar deep thoughts. During the peak of the boom-boom Wimbledon years, a lot of people who wanted to watch tennis (not just serving) took to watching almost exclusively the women's matches. I think that a game were the advantage of the server is brought down to maybe 60percent of service holds, *while keeping the rest of the game from slowing down* would be an absolutely great thing for tennis. I WANT TO SEE THEM PLAY, not just serve.
 

CEvertFan

Hall of Fame
I heard it said that the courts at Wimbledon are only about 15% slower than they were before the "change". That isn't that big of a difference, but it is enough to make things more interesting from the baseline and make it more of an all court surface instead of just a serving contest without any rallies, which I always thought was so one dimensional and boring. With the slight decrease in speed it makes for more interesting grass court tennis. Just MHO.

I doubt if Nadal would have been able to play nearly as good if the courts were as fast as they used to be. Roger's better serve would have been even more dominant than it was and Nadal would have had a lot more trouble with the faster bounce. I do think that Nadal served really well (for him) in this match and even though he had only had one ace, he did manage to force a lot of errors from Federer and hit more than a few service winners too.

As for the match as a whole, I think it was the best match of the tournament by far and the best match of the year so far, as well as probably being the best match that they have played against one another so far.

Let's see if Federer can go for 6 in a row next year. I think he has a great shot if he continues to be healthy and fit and motivated.
 
Last edited:

alan-n

Professional
It may be 15% slower than it used to at the start of a tournament with fresh grass, but at the end with the worn down dirt.... it becomes nearly a clay court and is noticeably slower than the US Open.
 

dysonlu

Professional
Federer served extremely well and that saved the day. I find that his forehand didn't have the pop that we usually see. A few shanks too many and that seemed to have sapped his confidence in that part of his arsenal -- only in the last 3 or 4 games of the match did I see him unleash his forehand.

The backhand was a big liability. Maybe he should have used the bh slice more often.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
I have a whole new level of respect for Nadal. What touch!

The only thing he did wrong (IMHO) is he let Fed get away with floaty returns and didn't come in on them and pressure Fed now and then. There were also a few rallies where Nadal had Fed in trouble and didn't come to net. When he did recognize those opportunites and come to net, he won the point usually.

If he can fix that one thing, he can win even if his serve doesn't improve.

As for Roger . . . well, I think Nadal deserved it more. Such is life.
 

catspaw

Rookie
I have a whole new level of respect for Nadal. What touch!

The only thing he did wrong (IMHO) is he let Fed get away with floaty returns and didn't come in on them and pressure Fed now and then. There were also a few rallies where Nadal had Fed in trouble and didn't come to net. When he did recognize those opportunites and come to net, he won the point usually.

If he can fix that one thing, he can win even if his serve doesn't improve.

As for Roger . . . well, I think Nadal deserved it more. Such is life.

I'm sorry, but you don't deserve it more if you can't come up with the goods when it's crucial that you do so. Whatever happened in the previous 4 sets was essentially nullified in the 5th. Federer produced the goods at crunch time and Nadal didn't. It's an oft-used cliche but it so often comes down to who plays the big points better, and that was the case here. 'Such' is tennis.
 

ACE of Hearts

Bionic Poster
Of course Fed's forehand had no pop,the balls where bouncing too much and this so called grass played like clay.I cant tell u how pissed i was watching this match.Nadal played great, served well but the conditions really affected Federer and his way to dictate points.I dont know if Fed will win wimbledon next year, it might even get slower.These people are killing wimbledon!!!
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
I'm sorry, but you don't deserve it more if you can't come up with the goods when it's crucial that you do so. Whatever happened in the previous 4 sets was essentially nullified in the 5th. Federer produced the goods at crunch time and Nadal didn't. It's an oft-used cliche but it so often comes down to who plays the big points better, and that was the case here. 'Such' is tennis.

Hey, if I were the fairy godmother of tennis, I would have awarded the victory to Nadal. I think his play was more inspired and impressive all around.

Feel free to disagree . . .
 

iamke55

Professional
Hey, if I were the fairy godmother of tennis, I would have awarded the victory to Nadal. I think his play was more inspired and impressive all around.

Feel free to disagree . . .

If someone here was a fairy godmother of tennis, the top 10 would be filled with people using inferior racquets and hitting 40 mph rallies with smooth, effortless-looking strokes and using the entire court, not to mention hitting the ball out as soon as the rally gets to 3 strokes.
 

danhtuhoc

Rookie
This may sound stupid but i think Raphael Nadal lost because he grunts. Grunting accelerate dehydration and tiredness :idea:
 

D-Bomb

Rookie
If someone here was a fairy godmother of tennis, the top 10 would be filled with people using inferior racquets and hitting 40 mph rallies with smooth, effortless-looking strokes and using the entire court, not to mention hitting the ball out as soon as the rally gets to 3 strokes.

*GASP* Is that a jab at these blessed TW posters?! HOW DARE YOU INSULT OUR 3.5 ABILITIES AND OBSESSION OVER STROKE PERFECTION AND PRACTICALLY MEANINGLESS EQUIPMENT?!

Oh, it isn't?

Oh.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Wow! It's a good thing the score is what determines the victor.

That is just nonsense, Cindy.

- KK


Nope, it's not nonsense. 'Cause this is a *discussion board.* So people can pose all manner of hypotheticals and can debate intangibles (translation: discuss). That is what makes it fun. I can imagine some people aren't interested in that sort of thing, but I find it endlessly fascinating. Kind of like debating who is the GOAT.

Otherwise we'd all just look at the score and say, "OK, he won. Discussion over."
 

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Okay, Cindy. Since the score seems so inconsequential to you, let's not have any more threads having anything to do with the following -- all started by [Guess who?]:

Retired after four games? [Who cares? Scores don't matter.]
Mixed Play Results [What??? Results are unimportant.]
Retire And Win? [Sure. Fairy Godmothers grant the wins.]
Need A Huge Upset To Stay Alive [Now scores matter???]
Anyone Mind If I Lick My Wounds? [Just *claim* the win.]
The Upset Thread [Declare yourself "victor" anyway.]
The Winning Streak Thread [Why do wins now matter?]
Need A Game Plan For Doubles Match [Against your new POV.]
My team isn't working [You need new Fairy Godmothers.]
Self-rated player blowing away opponents [But...! But...!!!]


Seriously, Cindy, the reason we keep score is ... somebody wins and somebody loses. That's competition.

If "fairy godmothers" could simply award victory to whom they prefered, why would anyone bother playing the game?

- KK
 

156MPHserve

Professional
Karl I think you're taking it a little too far. Cindy simply wanted to say that Rafa played ridiculously well and is pretty much a winner in our minds along with Federer.

So guys, I was wondering, do you think the results would have been different if Nadal got to serve first in the fifth set?

Right at the beginning I had predicted Nadal would lose because serving second, Rafa would try to bite into Fed's service game and if he were to get close and not succeed, he'd have expended a lot of energy and totally lost the momentum in his own service game. To me that's pretty much how he lost although I must say he had a few opportunities to really run with the match and Fed just stepped up and said, "Not today Rafa!"
 

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Karl I think you're taking it a little too far. Cindy simply wanted to say that Rafa played ridiculously well and is pretty much a winner in our minds along with Federer.
Only that's not what she posted. She wrote (emphasis mine) "Hey, if I were the fairy godmother of tennis, I would have awarded the victory to Nadal. I think his play was more inspired and impressive all around."

There's nothing suggesting "along with Federer" in her post.


So guys, I was wondering, do you think the results would have been different if Nadal got to serve first in the fifth set?
No.

I think you got it right at the end of your post...
Fed just stepped up and said, "Not today Rafa!"

- KK
 

goforgold99

Semi-Pro
Of course Fed's forehand had no pop,the balls where bouncing too much and this so called grass played like clay.I cant tell u how pissed i was watching this match.Nadal played great, served well but the conditions really affected Federer and his way to dictate points.I dont know if Fed will win wimbledon next year, it might even get slower.These people are killing wimbledon!!!
I hoped Fed would complain a littel about the conditions in the post match interview, but just said that with the conditions getting slower everywhere, there won't be any more clay court "specialists" in the future
 

fastdunn

Legend
If I were Federer, I wouldn't complain. He is at least partially a beneficiary
of this whole slowed condition that happened from 2001 to 2003.
 

rafan

Hall of Fame
I have said it all along if only Nadal could improve his serve. I still cannot understand why he has not because with all that power he has he could have an incredible serve and tons of really cheap points. He is still the most exciting player though
 

N-Djo

New User
@ rafan

He should use his power for his serve. I also think so. But nadal will have less power in a few years I think. His body will notice the consequences of running so much. So you'll find him on positon 10 to 20 in 5 years
 

rafan

Hall of Fame
yes I can see your drift but hopefully if he improved his serve and got more aces in he many not have to run so much
 
Top