mike danny
Bionic Poster
And that argument is as valid as any considering Novak himself didn't reciprocate either.
Again, Nadal leads the rivalry with Fed, but 24-16 doesn't tell the whole story.
Federer vs Nadal Who Is Ahead As Of Now?
- Thread starter Neptune
- Start date
Again, Nadal leads the rivalry with Fed, but 24-16 doesn't tell the whole story.
Silentchimera
Semi-Pro
Well said. Your words carry weight as a Djokovic fan.
Silentchimera
Semi-Pro
Well it's a good thing you do not determine for everyone the mythical GOAT rankings. What a farce that would be.
Last edited:
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
In terms of promos, bringing heat to the match, merchandise, crowd engagement etc it would likely be Hogan, even though that idiot messed up the best written feud in history in Starcade 97 and Superbrawl 98. As for the rest "ability to protect yourself and the other wrestler" aka actual wrestling abilities I would have Bret ahead of Shawn.
SABRvolley
Rookie
This is really tough to answer as they are incredibly close.
At first glance, one might say Nadal, due to more slams, more masters and leading the H2H.
However, I don’t think it’s quite that simple (yes I am biased).
Federer still actually owns more tennis records than Nadal, overall. Some of the most impressive records he has over Nadal are as follows:
- More weeks at world number 1 at 310 (including 237 consecutive, a record).
- 6x ATP Finals titles (compared to Nadal’s 0), 2nd most of all time.
- Leading the H2H against Nadal on both hard and grass courts.
- More overall tournament titles (103 vs 92).
- Better at 3 of the 4 slams than Nadal (Nadal obviously way better at RG).
- More seasons with a 90+ % win rate (4, vs Nadal’s 2).
- Both have had 5 year-end #1’s.
But one of the other things that stand out to me, that not many others talk about, is his record against prime Djokovic.
Nadal has had 2 separate periods where he lost 7 consecutive matches to Novak (in 2011-2012 and 2015-2016), whereas Federer has never gone more than 5 consecutive losses (which happened after Federer turned 35).
In 2015, statistically novak’s best season (I think 2011 was better though), Federer was the only player to really put up a fight against Novak, and won 3 matches against him, even though he was already in his mid 30s.
Similarly, in 2011, from AO through the USO, Djokovic only lost 2 matches, of which one was to Federer. He very nearly lost the USO Semi to Federer as well. Whereas prime Nadal went 0-6 against Novak in 2011.
Furthermore, and I hate to say this, but you simply HAVE to admit that Nadal’s results are skewed by his clay performances. Of course, he is still amazing on other surfaces too, but his success off clay is just now where near Federer or Novak’s. Federer had won his slams much more evenly across all 4 (apart from RG, but that is understandable as he was up against the clay GOAT in most of them).
To summarize:
- Nadal leads the slam and Masters 1000 race.
- Nadal leads the H2H with Federer overall.
- Nadal heavily leads the H2H with Federer on clay.
- Nadal has one more Olympic gold medal than Federer.
- Federer pretty much leads in everything else.
It is extremely close, but I am slightly leaning towards Roger at this point, simply because he still could beat his 2 biggest rivals at the age of 38 (Nadal at Wim, novak at WTF).
At first glance, one might say Nadal, due to more slams, more masters and leading the H2H.
However, I don’t think it’s quite that simple (yes I am biased).
Federer still actually owns more tennis records than Nadal, overall. Some of the most impressive records he has over Nadal are as follows:
- More weeks at world number 1 at 310 (including 237 consecutive, a record).
- 6x ATP Finals titles (compared to Nadal’s 0), 2nd most of all time.
- Leading the H2H against Nadal on both hard and grass courts.
- More overall tournament titles (103 vs 92).
- Better at 3 of the 4 slams than Nadal (Nadal obviously way better at RG).
- More seasons with a 90+ % win rate (4, vs Nadal’s 2).
- Both have had 5 year-end #1’s.
But one of the other things that stand out to me, that not many others talk about, is his record against prime Djokovic.
Nadal has had 2 separate periods where he lost 7 consecutive matches to Novak (in 2011-2012 and 2015-2016), whereas Federer has never gone more than 5 consecutive losses (which happened after Federer turned 35).
In 2015, statistically novak’s best season (I think 2011 was better though), Federer was the only player to really put up a fight against Novak, and won 3 matches against him, even though he was already in his mid 30s.
Similarly, in 2011, from AO through the USO, Djokovic only lost 2 matches, of which one was to Federer. He very nearly lost the USO Semi to Federer as well. Whereas prime Nadal went 0-6 against Novak in 2011.
Furthermore, and I hate to say this, but you simply HAVE to admit that Nadal’s results are skewed by his clay performances. Of course, he is still amazing on other surfaces too, but his success off clay is just now where near Federer or Novak’s. Federer had won his slams much more evenly across all 4 (apart from RG, but that is understandable as he was up against the clay GOAT in most of them).
To summarize:
- Nadal leads the slam and Masters 1000 race.
- Nadal leads the H2H with Federer overall.
- Nadal heavily leads the H2H with Federer on clay.
- Nadal has one more Olympic gold medal than Federer.
- Federer pretty much leads in everything else.
It is extremely close, but I am slightly leaning towards Roger at this point, simply because he still could beat his 2 biggest rivals at the age of 38 (Nadal at Wim, novak at WTF).
SABRvolley
Rookie
This is really tough to answer as they are incredibly close.
At first glance, one might say Nadal, due to more slams, more masters and leading the H2H.
However, I don’t think it’s quite that simple (yes I am biased).
Federer still actually owns more tennis records than Nadal, overall. Some of the most impressive records he has over Nadal are as follows:
- More weeks at world number 1 at 310 (including 237 consecutive, a record).
- 6x ATP Finals titles (compared to Nadal’s 0), 2nd most of all time.
- Leading the H2H against Nadal on both hard and grass courts.
- More overall tournament titles (103 vs 92).
- Better at 3 of the 4 slams than Nadal (Nadal obviously way better at RG).
- More seasons with a 90+ % win rate (4, vs Nadal’s 2).
- Both have had 5 year-end #1’s.
But one of the other things that stand out to me, that not many others talk about, is his record against prime Djokovic.
Nadal has had 2 separate periods where he lost 7 consecutive matches to Novak (in 2011-2012 and 2015-2016), whereas Federer has never gone more than 5 consecutive losses (which happened after Federer turned 35).
In 2015, statistically novak’s best season (I think 2011 was better though), Federer was the only player to really put up a fight against Novak, and won 3 matches against him, even though he was already in his mid 30s.
Similarly, in 2011, from AO through the USO, Djokovic only lost 2 matches, of which one was to Federer. He very nearly lost the USO Semi to Federer as well. Whereas prime Nadal went 0-6 against Novak in 2011.
Furthermore, and I hate to say this, but you simply HAVE to admit that Nadal’s results are skewed by his clay performances. Of course, he is still amazing on other surfaces too, but his success off clay is just now where near Federer or Novak’s. Federer had won his slams much more evenly across all 4 (apart from RG, but that is understandable as he was up against the clay GOAT in most of them).
To summarize:
- Nadal leads the slam and Masters 1000 race.
- Nadal leads the H2H with Federer overall.
- Nadal heavily leads the H2H with Federer on clay.
- Nadal has one more Olympic gold medal than Federer.
- Federer pretty much leads in everything else.
It is extremely close, but I am slightly leaning towards Roger at this point, simply because he still could beat his 2 biggest rivals at the age of 38 (Nadal at Wim, novak at WTF).
At first glance, one might say Nadal, due to more slams, more masters and leading the H2H.
However, I don’t think it’s quite that simple (yes I am biased).
Federer still actually owns more tennis records than Nadal, overall. Some of the most impressive records he has over Nadal are as follows:
- More weeks at world number 1 at 310 (including 237 consecutive, a record).
- 6x ATP Finals titles (compared to Nadal’s 0), 2nd most of all time.
- Leading the H2H against Nadal on both hard and grass courts.
- More overall tournament titles (103 vs 92).
- Better at 3 of the 4 slams than Nadal (Nadal obviously way better at RG).
- More seasons with a 90+ % win rate (4, vs Nadal’s 2).
- Both have had 5 year-end #1’s.
But one of the other things that stand out to me, that not many others talk about, is his record against prime Djokovic.
Nadal has had 2 separate periods where he lost 7 consecutive matches to Novak (in 2011-2012 and 2015-2016), whereas Federer has never gone more than 5 consecutive losses (which happened after Federer turned 35).
In 2015, statistically novak’s best season (I think 2011 was better though), Federer was the only player to really put up a fight against Novak, and won 3 matches against him, even though he was already in his mid 30s.
Similarly, in 2011, from AO through the USO, Djokovic only lost 2 matches, of which one was to Federer. He very nearly lost the USO Semi to Federer as well. Whereas prime Nadal went 0-6 against Novak in 2011.
Furthermore, and I hate to say this, but you simply HAVE to admit that Nadal’s results are skewed by his clay performances. Of course, he is still amazing on other surfaces too, but his success off clay is just now where near Federer or Novak’s. Federer had won his slams much more evenly across all 4 (apart from RG, but that is understandable as he was up against the clay GOAT in most of them).
To summarize:
- Nadal leads the slam and Masters 1000 race.
- Nadal leads the H2H with Federer overall.
- Nadal heavily leads the H2H with Federer on clay.
- Nadal has one more Olympic gold medal than Federer.
- Federer pretty much leads in everything else.
It is extremely close, but I am slightly leaning towards Roger at this point, simply because he still could beat his 2 biggest rivals at the age of 38 (Nadal at Wim, novak at WTF).
SABRvolley
Rookie
Except that it wasn’t “over” for Federer, was it?
Since 2008, which most consider the start of Nadal’s peak and the year where Novak broke onto the scene, Federer still won 8 slams. Not bad for a guy for whom it was “over”.
People forget that post-30 Federer had to deal with mid-20s peak Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and the like.
Who did post-30 Djokovic have to deal with? 38 year old Fed, injury-plagued Nadal, lost gen of players born in the 90s who couldn’t win ****.
There’s a reason why Djokovic has racked up more slams since 2018 than he did in his physical peak years of 2011 - 2016, and it had nothing to do with his level.
Put 2011 - 2017 Federer in the 2018 - present field and he would rack up just as many slams, I can almost guarantee you that.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
And even then it's fake news lolAre you in charge of ITF and Nike and WADA and Australia and USA and ... ?
Oh MY BACK. MY BACK
zakopinjo
Professional
Not because of that, but because he was a better tennis player than Federer from the start of his career
2005-2007 dominates on clay against Federer and challenges him on grass
In 2008, he takes over the grass from Federer
In 2009, he takes over the hard from Federer
The only impregnable stronghold of Federer remains the ATP finals, where he finally capitulated in 2013
SABRvolley
Rookie
Sorry but I disagree.
He has never been the better grass or hardcourt player than Federer. Just because he led the hard court H2H at one point does not mean he is a better player on that surface.
Nadal was always a bad matchup for Federer, not necessarily because he’s a better player, but Federers style of play did not match up well against Nadal’s.
What matters is his record against the entire field. Federer is much, much more accomplished on both hard and grass courts over his entire career against the whole field.
So yeah, I agree with the clay part, but not the rest.
LOL -- I thought this kind of juvenile analysis was a thing of the past, but I guess bad ideas can be endlessly recycled. The question of who is a "better tennis player" is determined by comparing overall results against the same field for a given period of time. Of course, there are many ways to measure overall results, but sometimes the task is easy. E.g., if one player wins three slams and a total of 12 tournaments in a year, and the other player wins one slam and a total of five tournaments in that same year, the first player is a better tennis player (at that time). How their matches against each turned out is irrelevant.
zakopinjo
Professional
23:10 (all matches) and 9:2 (slams) prove my point----- these are Fedal's prime years
SABRvolley
Rookie
First of all, the H2H is 24-16, not 23-10. And 10-4 in slams, not 9-2.
Secondly, if you want to go by H2H, Federer is leading on 2 of the 3 surfaces. Of course Nadal has a huge lead on clay and it is impressive and well deserved, but the relative lack of grass court matches between these 2 definitely helped in skewing these stats.
Again though, it’s about the performance against the field, not just 1 player. In no way is Nadal better on hard or grass against Federer, and never was.
By your logic, davydenko is better than Nadal because he leads the H2H
zakopinjo
Professional
My logic says that Federer is in his prime until the end of 2012
Until 2012, the score between Nadal and Federer is 18:10, of which 8:2 are at slams.
AO 2:0
RG 5:0
WB 1:2
SABRvolley
Rookie
Federer’s true prime ended at the AO 2010, which capped off a run of 18 out of 19 slam finals dating back to 2005 Wimbledon. His results have never been quite as impressive since then.
He was still very good after that too, but no longer in his prime.
In fact, he was about the same age as Nadal was when he left his prime around 2014.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
And the best big match player in the 21st century, against Federer and Djokovic.
Sampras in the 1990s was judged a lot on his ability to win big matches. Nadal was even better.
Nadal's weakness is that he couldn't relentlessly dominate a whole year from start to finish like Federer and Djokovic, but Nadal could be the most dominant of all in concentrated periods like winning 8 tournaments in 4 months from April-August 2008.
Nadal's best year in terms of start to finish brilliance was 2005, when he won 11 tournaments as a teenager, which remained his best ever. His 2005 was cut short, too.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Maybe try challenging the GOAT on the main surface and winning a set or two every few years. What a joke of a 'big match player'.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
I'll list it out for you, clearlyMaybe try challenging the GOAT on the main surface and winning a set or two every few years. What a joke of a 'big match player'.
Nadal wins over Djokovic in majors:
2006 French Open QF
2007 French Open SF
2007 Wimbledon SF
2008 French Open SF
2010 US Open F
2012 French Open F
2013 French Open SF
2013 US Open F
2014 French Open F
2020 French Open F
2022 French Open QF
Djokovic wins over Nadal in majors:
2011 Wimbledon F
2011 US Open F
2012 Australian Open F
2015 French Open QF
2018 Wimbledon SF
2019 Australian Open F
2021 French Open SF
Nadal wins over Federer in majors:
2005 French Open SF
2006 French Open F
2007 French Open F
2008 French Open F
2008 Wimbledon F
2009 Australian Open F
2011 French Open F
2012 Australian Open SF
2014 Australian Open SF
2019 French Open SF
Federer wins over Nadal in majors:
2006 Wimbledon F
2007 Wimbledon F
2017 Australian Open F
2019 Wimbledon SF
Federer wins over Djokovic in majors:
2007 Australian Open R16
2007 US Open F
2008 US Open SF
2009 US Open SF
2011 French Open SF
2012 Wimbledon SF
Djokovic wins over Federer in majors:
2008 Australian Open SF
2010 US Open SF
2011 Australian Open SF
2011 US Open SF
2012 French Open SF
2014 Wimbledon F
2015 Wimbledon F
2015 US Open F
2016 Australian Open SF
2019 Wimbledon F
2020 Australian Open SF
Neptune
Hall of Fame
I'll list it out for you, clearly
Nadal wins over Djokovic in majors:
2006 French Open QF
2007 French Open SF
2007 Wimbledon SF
2008 French Open SF
2010 US Open F
2012 French Open F
2013 French Open SF
2013 US Open F
2014 French Open F
2020 French Open F
2022 French Open QF
Djokovic wins over Nadal in majors:
2011 Wimbledon F
2011 US Open F
2012 Australian Open F
2015 French Open QF
2018 Wimbledon SF
2019 Australian Open F
2021 French Open SF
Nadal wins over Federer in majors:
2005 French Open SF
2006 French Open F
2007 French Open F
2008 French Open F
2008 Wimbledon F
2009 Australian Open F
2011 French Open F
2012 Australian Open SF
2014 Australian Open SF
2019 French Open SF
Federer wins over Nadal in majors:
2006 Wimbledon F
2007 Wimbledon F
2017 Australian Open F
2019 Wimbledon SF
Federer wins over Djokovic in majors:
2007 Australian Open R16
2007 US Open F
2008 US Open SF
2009 US Open SF
2011 French Open SF
2012 Wimbledon SF
Djokovic wins over Federer in majors:
2008 Australian Open SF
2010 US Open SF
2011 Australian Open SF
2011 US Open SF
2012 French Open SF
2014 Wimbledon F
2015 Wimbledon F
2015 US Open F
2016 Australian Open SF
2019 Wimbledon F
2020 Australian Open SF
0 Set in 10+ years on the main surface against the GOAT
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Indeed, Joker did a great job dodging RAFA when he was getting pasted by the Istomins, Chungs, and Daniels of the world0 Set in 10+ years on the main surface against the GOAT
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Indeed, Joker did a great job dodging RAFA when he was getting pasted by the Istomins, Chungs, and Daniels of the world
@vive le beau jeu ! Do you have a GIF of bull dodging? It’s said to be the reason Nole and Rafa face each other less often on the main surface than on the minor surface.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Number of times the Big 3 faced each other when they were injured/out of form:@vive le beau jeu ! Do you have a GIF of bull dodging? It’s said to be the reason Nole and Rafa face each other less often on the main surface than on the minor surface.
Ol’ Rog in 2013: 6x (4x vs RAFA, 2x vs Joker)
RAFA in 2015-2016: 8x (7x vs Joker, 1x vs Ol’ Rog)
Joker in 2017-mid 2018: 2x (2x vs RAFA, 0x vs Ol’ Rog)
Who dodged whom again?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
You're right. He'll stay behind on GPPD, while Nadal joins Federer in the former pro player section.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression.
We are not living in North Korea
TheGoldenEra1990’s
Hall of Fame
Nadal obviously. The singles Olympic gold, masters advantage, 2 slam and double career slam advantage and advantage in the h2H vs Federer is too much for Fed overcame with more year end titles.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
here's a rare footage of nole performing an acrobatic istomin...@vive le beau jeu ! Do you have a GIF of bull dodging? It’s said to be the reason Nole and Rafa face each other less often on the main surface than on the minor surface.
but the bull didn't dodge the happy ending
(this time)
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression.
We are not living in North Korea
Yes which is why when everyone voted to express their opinion on how they rank the big 3 with over 365 votes, some couldn't handle it *cough and asked the mods to delete the thread. Right? ;-)
gamelovergold
Semi-Pro
You have to tell that how many times they played each other in that 10 years. Kindly provide full info0 Set in 10+ years on the main surface against the GOAT
SABRvolley
Rookie
Ultimate Tennis Statistics - GOAT List
Open Era GOAT List (a.k.a. GOATometer) compares tennis player career achievements expressed by GOAT Points
www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com
I’ll just leave this here, Federer is ahead of Nadal
I have no idea what you're talking about
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Well let me make it very clear, certain Fedal fans didn't like the opinions of others when everyone was allowed to express who they had at the top and asked for the thread to be deleted. You know the thread, you posted in it plenty of times. So please spare me the North Korea speech. Thanks.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I just find it hilarious, that many had an issue with a free vote for everyone because Djokovic came out on top and asked for the thread to be deleted, then I get told about freedom of expression and opinion. LMAO.
How do you know? Maybe the mod deleted it because of the tiresome trolling, bickering which end in aggressive/attacking respond between fans.
Don't take it on the Fedal fans, it's the Djoker fanbase who is the root of the problem
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I know the thread got reported because Fedal fans didn't like it. So please cut the North Korea nonsense. Everyone was allowed to vote freely in that thread, the fact Djokovic got 58% of the votes after 366 votes didn't sit well with some. It's funny you want to blame everything on Djokovic fanbases and if Fedal fans are holier than thou. Please.
So you think it's all Fedal fans fault when the thread get deleted? LOL
Ever thought that Nole fanbase is part if not the main problem? They are the aggressor, get angry because people have different POV. Please, take accountability for your actions
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I'm mirroring your words, read more carefully. Initially said it was certain Fedal fans, I've already stated that to you, you however then come up with the statement that Djokovic fanbase which is the root of the problem instead of actually talking about a select few. The thread got deleted because the votes didn't come out the way certain Fedal fans liked, which is my reply to your N Korea comment, because the first place you need to be looking for tolerance of opinion is not among Djokovic fanbase. I know there are trolls in Djokovic fanbase, but can you actually acknowledge the bitter trolls in the Fedal fanbase who thought it was their divine right that their guy had ended up with the most slams? Hilarious how you want me to take accountability, when I made a thread allowing everyone to freely express their opinions and vote who they see fit, and you give me the tongue in cheek about the N.Korea way of seeing things, because you got a kick out of seeing someone say Djokovic is behind your fav....tolerate the opposing opinion first before asking others to take accountability.
gamelovergold
Semi-Pro
The bitterness in fedal fans is unhealthy. When race was between fedrer and nadal they were happy in trolling novak for thinking about breaking top 2 hold on slam race. But as Novak produced one strong performance after another and added slams to his resume , fedal fans realised the gravity of situation and combined forces to bring down Novak acheivements . When you are biased toward fedrer or nadal you will find thousand arguments for them and will find counter argument for novak .
BUT if you are that lady justice then case is closed and novak is winner.
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
Rafa is #2 or inconsequential #3 only for salty TTWers... who cares what TTW polls show?
in the real tennis world/sport community where CONTEXT matters, RAFA IS KING! he has reached heights of accolades other tennis atgs can only dream of
PISTA RAFA NADAL
shows Rafa is the KING where it matters in the public eye!!
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
the statue means nothing.
its just my 2 cents
its just my 2 cents
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Hey bestie
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I don't mind at all who people see as their GOAT, it's all subjective anyway, if such a thing exists. If Nadal, or Federer, or Laver or Sampras or Djokovic or anyone else is the GOAT for you, all the more power to you. My issue was more about double standards, that some cannot stomach that Djokovic won the slam race and are extremely bitter about it and requesting for a poll to be deleted because they didn't like the outcome is just one of many examples. Anyways, I'm done with the thread, made my point.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I can put 100 Djokovic gif for this.
Your comments don't add a thing to discourse.
JoJoHackshow
Rookie
Fellow Nole fam, THANK YOU for heeding my advice and voting Nadal into 2, because otherwise the whole "grand slams are all that matters" would get thrown out the window, therefore it's necessary to keep Federer in slot number 3
zakopinjo
Professional
Of course he is number 3.
Mentally the weakest player of the big 3, that's why he has a negative score against them and lags behind in the slam and masters race.
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