Neptune
Hall of Fame
Even for Slam alone, the ITF disagrees with a simple slam title count, recognizing the significance of runner-up finishes and reaching the quarterfinals and semifinals etc.
Federer vs Nadal Who Is Ahead As Of Now?
- Thread starter Neptune
- Start date
Even for Slam alone, the ITF disagrees with a simple slam title count, recognizing the significance of runner-up finishes and reaching the quarterfinals and semifinals etc.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Simple slam title count is very reductive view of greatness. I never followed it. In this way, some stattpadder like Nadal can win 21 RG and basically flop everywhere else and we should say he is better than Fed? No.Even for Slam alone, the ITF disagrees with a simple slam title count, recognizing the significance of runner-up finishes and reaching the quarterfinals and semifinals etc.
ITF World Champions - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Two more slams, eight more masters and H2H outweigh 6 YECs and weeks at #1 for me (especially since both are equal in YE #1). So Nadal is ahead for me even if slightly.
Towny
Hall of Fame
Thanks
I'm still around but less often. Have had a few breaks. With Djokovic having most of the records now and a certain Lew no longer here, I guess Elo (thankfully) doesn't seem to come up as often anymore
SpinWizard
Semi-Pro
I genuinely don't know how you can call someone better when you have less slams, less masters and huge H2H difference. With all due respect to Roger, but it is Rafa now.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
well it is a two slam deficit first of all, unless that is alluding to trying to discredit AO 2022. Nadal also has the masters and H2H, this seals it for me.
Please don't forget the Baghdatis and Gonzalez opens that helped the Federer cause.
RS
Bionic Poster
Still does
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
They know lol. These threads are just “release your Nadal hate” threads, but they sound silly af
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Philippoussis and Roddick too. I agree. Fed fans talking about weak slam wins is the biggest joke on this forum. It is as if they didn’t watch the 2000’s era before Youngdal matured on all surfaces. He had it easy and probably didn’t help him when the difficulty level went up to legendary level when djokodal entered their primes/peaks.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Nadal is ahead of Federer now. Fed also had it a lot easier than Nadal too. Fed fans cry about weak era but the majority of Feds slam wins were against weaker competition and bums who never won a slam or won 1 at most! lolThey know lol. These threads are just “release your Nadal hate” threads, but they sound silly af
That website also rate the toughest slams. Federer had only 3, among the top 30. Nadal and Djokovic had 9 and 11. Since it is such a short list, I tried to guess, and I got 2 of them right: '12 WB and '17 AO.
But if they rate from the point of view of the runners up (not the winner), then Federer certainly top the list, surely half of them.
Oceans II
Professional
I think Nadal will win at least one more slam so that noone can possibly argue with 3 slams difference. I believe what the Big 3 end up with is what they deserve and tennis justice. I think the difference between Djokodal and Federer could be far greater than between Djokodal themselves.They know lol. These threads are just “release your Nadal hate” threads, but they sound silly af
For me, it is clearly Nadal. If you look at the numbers, Nadal is only slightly ahead. BUT he achieved these when competing against peak Federer and peak Djokorvic during his entire career. On the other hand, Federer's first 10 slam wins are very weak.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
What exactly is asterisked? Rafa has a good case to having faced the toughest competition out of the three.
GoatNo1
Legend
AO22 is very asterisked and therefore even 22 and DCGS! '
if you politically remove the player who is the record holder (10 AOs) and who won three AOs before and one after that then there is a big asterisk next to the winner (who won it once for 14 years ago and who never won there vs baned player and even did not won a single set vs him for a whole decade on a particular surface)!
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B
Beerus
Guest
Kokutitas LOL
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
False
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
RS
Bionic Poster
Nadal. But that's not what's stale we have had the same debate millions of times taking the exact same tone.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
You know this just an opinion, right?
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
He can't be the GOAT even if he had 23 slams. Nole was banned and still just 1 behind. What would happen if Nole is unleashed. Same thing that happened in 2023. It would be our guy winning 3 slams in 2022 getting to 24 while Rafa would remain at 21 and single CGS.
Very hyperbolic to call him the GOAT when he lags in every other metric and even in slams it is SO dubious.
pirhaksar
Professional
How do you rationalize Nadal over Roger just on stars alone? He lacks the YEC which is an important tourney in the resume. The DCGYS is great makes up for it and the FO dominance adds a lot to his case, no doubt and not to forget the H2H so I cannot argue against but I still have Fed very slightly ahead due to #1 ranking and YEC. Especially continuous weeks ant #1 will stand the test of time like 14 FOs. According to Pete slams, #1 and YEC are main parameters. So right now have him a hair ahead but if Rafa gets another slam game over, Roger is #3 for me.
No, they formulated impersonal criteria. In any case, Nadal only registered third, behind the runaway Federer, more than one half of whose slams were judged to be of minimal resistance.They know lol. These threads are just “release your Nadal hate” threads, but they sound silly af
Holmes
Legend
Link?
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
You can't put a guy whose achievements come mostly from one surface (specially one that is antithetical to tennis like clay) ahead of a guy who was much more well rounded
Nadal has the Slam record over Federer but trails practically everywhere else. Unless the former can win more titles off the dirt, he will stay firmly behind in the all-time rankings.
Nadal has the Slam record over Federer but trails practically everywhere else. Unless the former can win more titles off the dirt, he will stay firmly behind in the all-time rankings.
Roddick was a habitual runner up, especially at Wimbledon. Cilic was certainly better than him. Cilic had an incredible USO, and he went 5 sets with Federer at AO.Anyone who brings up Roddick amongst Baghdatis, Philippoussis, Gonzalez etc...is a moron. The irony of those poster being Djokovic fans with his slam finalists in recent years as well
Neptune
Hall of Fame
On Djokovic's strongest surface, Federer faced him nine times in hardcourt Slam before the final, while Nadal faced him zero times. I believe that kind of advantage in the Slam draw alone is worth more than two Slam titles.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Nadal and Nole both are luckier than fed. They are baseline gods. No one from history would come close to them. And this is baseline era.
Fed was thrown impossible challenge. And he failed. But when surfaces were a bit faster, grass indoors fast hard courts etc, fed dominated Nadal.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
100%.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Thank you for proving my point.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
What do you mean with antithetical? Clay has way more history as a tennis surface than hard and is way more played on overall (on youth and hobby level) than both hard and grass.
It is also not true that Nadal trails everywhere else, if it was you would have a point. Nadal is ahead in masters, H2H, has the OG and is even with Fed in YE #1. If it was only the two slam difference I would agree with you (if Nadal was two slams ahead of Djoko I would maybe still have Novak ahead because other than Fed he really is leading Rafa everywhere else).
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Nadal leads in slams, masters and H2H. For me that’s just too much despite what Fed has over him.
Year end no1 and weeks at no1 or YEC aren’t as important as slams. Rafa sort of cancels them out with what he has but his slam lead makes difference.
Nadal also had tougher competition than Federer too.
Just my view.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
We should be aware of the pattern in Slam draws, consistently placing Nole on Rafa's side on clay and on Fed's side on non-clay surfaces. With one clay Slam and three non-clay Slams, this creates a significant 3-1 advantage for Rafa over Fed.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Weeks at number 1 encompasses them all. The clay courter can win 30 clay masters. Don't disrespect Roger.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Nadal had much tougher competition too. Fed was playing chumps at the start of his career.
GoatNo1
Legend
he has 2 AO and never won vs AO GOAT and he has 4 USOs and he never even met the USO GOAT.
TheAssassin
G.O.A.T.
A fitting discussion about who is the third wheel lol.
Always preferred Federer and think he was better across more venues than the other way around though Nadal done exceptionally well to take his opportunities.
Always preferred Federer and think he was better across more venues than the other way around though Nadal done exceptionally well to take his opportunities.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
That can be wrong. Try to understand why Davydenko is Rafa's master on HC but Rafa never need to deal with him on HC slam.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
While I disagree with most other post of yours here I have to agree. If surface pattern was more like in the 90s with more fast surfaces (carpet, faster HC) Fed would benefit most of it as he is the best fast-court player of the big three. Then again, Fed himself lobbied for the abolition of carpet so he wasn’t sold on that either.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Nadal had peak Federer and peak Djokovic to deal with.
He had very good Murray and wawrinka too. Even players like berdych, tsonga, delpo, etc were better than a lot of players Fed played at start.
At the start Fed took advantage of a vacuum era after Sampras. Old Agassi and overrated Roddick was his best competition.
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