Federer was stopped by father time, Djokovic is not getting stopped
- Thread starter nolefam_2024
- Start date
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Jannik will finish off the biggest sinner in the history of Tennis in the semifinals of the 2024 Australian Open, indoors and in 5 sets.
djokovic the conqueror
Professional
I agree. No one has taken better care of their body than Djokovic. He defies Father Time again and again. He makes the impossible possible.
Underdog
Professional
I don’t know if there was much to do then. Federer was at such a ball-striking zone in 2017. It was beautiful.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Yes, a guy who avoided major injuries until he was 35 didn't take care of himself properly.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
But why only look at 2018 when Fed played at a high level in 2019 too? Yes, Djokovic may not suffer any injuries next year like Fed did in 2018, but we could easily have said that Fed aged better than Djokovic at 29-31 since he didn't lose to any Istomin's and Chung's at those ages.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I think one thing that is rarely mentioned is that Fed in his 30's for the most part just played more tennis than Djokovic, while Djokovic mostly focuses on the slams because he can. That and that covid break allowed Djokovic to seemingly age better than Fed.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Having most likely taken two more in 2014/2015, of course.
Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
I think Roger was stopped by two things:
1. Torn meniscus that couldn’t heal well enough
2. The frustration of Covid protocols in different countries - crazy stuff so why continue to put yourself through stuff when you don’t need the aggravation:
Novak will be 37 on May 22 if my memory serves me right and we shall see how he goes after that. He certainly has had his challenges but made up for things with a great 2022 and 3023 season.
1. Torn meniscus that couldn’t heal well enough
2. The frustration of Covid protocols in different countries - crazy stuff so why continue to put yourself through stuff when you don’t need the aggravation:
Novak will be 37 on May 22 if my memory serves me right and we shall see how he goes after that. He certainly has had his challenges but made up for things with a great 2022 and 3023 season.
A
ALCARAZWON
Guest
Djokovic is not being stopped, because Nadal is not on the tour.
Check Djokovic's situation after a whole year of Nadal in 2024-25, and father time will have won.
Nadal = father time.
Check Djokovic's situation after a whole year of Nadal in 2024-25, and father time will have won.
Nadal = father time.
Icsa
Professional
This thread would be a lot more useful if it would talk about the "secrets" Djokovic is using to stay in top shape, like this CVAP pod: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904787404576532854267519860
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Ok then talkThis thread would be a lot more useful if it would talk about the "secrets" Djokovic is using to stay in top shape, like this CVAP pod: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904787404576532854267519860
I thought that topic was DEAD for 12 years already but if you think it matters in 2023 then go ahead
Nadal's last non-RG slam win over Djokovic was in '13. Nadal regularly contends at RG, and Djokovic contends at the other 3 slams.
So Nadal's absence from tour is felt only at RG.
Icsa
Professional
Why wouldn't it matter now if the topic is longevity? https://www.therxreview.com/novak-djokovic-8-training-and-diet-secrets/
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
If it is legal and Novak is doing it, no one is stopping fed. Not sure how it will stop Fed from injuring himself as well.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
It looks like something out of Dragon Ball Z.This thread would be a lot more useful if it would talk about the "secrets" Djokovic is using to stay in top shape, like this CVAP pod: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904787404576532854267519860
BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
This thread would be a lot more useful if it would talk about the "secrets" Djokovic is using to stay in top shape, like this CVAP pod: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904787404576532854267519860
Well, everyone else is free to use if it is so magical...
Icsa
Professional
I can't comment on legality and I'm not interested in that. Since we are comparing Djokovic and Federer longevity, it is good to discuss what they have done differently to train, stay healthy and recover post matches. For instance, Novak uses ice baths for recovery while Roger prefers very warm temperatures.
Federer peak? Whom did Federer defeat during his peak? Nadal & Djokovic once or twice.
Each of them had a winning streak against Federer for a long time. Nadal started 23-10 in his rivalry against Federer. Djokovic finished his rivalry 15-7, with 6-0 in slams, with Fed.
Federer and Djokovic only met in SF's of tournaments. That meant Fed was a contender. Djokovic could care less if that wasn't prime Federer, only thing he cared about was taking down a fellow contender.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
In H2H
Nadal had 3 5-0 streaks vs Federer.
Novak had two 7-0 vs Nadal.
Nadal has 1 5-0 streak vs Djokovic.
Federer has 1 5-0 streak vs Nadal.
Djokovic has 1 5-0 streak vs Federer.
Federer had a higher peak at 3/4 slams and YEC.
A
ALCARAZWON
Guest
That's only because Nadal-Djokovic don't meet at the US Open anymore, where Nadal leads 2-1 H2H.
And they don't meet at Wimbledon lately where Djokovic needed 10-8 5th Set to beat Nadal in 2018.
But Nadal was 5-0 at Wimbledon last year (despite playing injured severely), so good chance he wins it this year.
And their 2020 RG meeting was not the typical Roland Garros conditions, so a lot more like a hardcourt, and Nadal won 60 61 75 over Djokovic.
Health is obviously the deciding factor, but Nadal is the best US Open player in the world, so expect him to win that too.
And Nadal will be a lot healthier this year than he was in 2022 (when his rib was fractured and he missed 6 weeks).
Silentchimera
Semi-Pro
Djokovic did not face younger ATG rivals. This is the main key to his longevity. Federer faced younger ATG rivals for 15 years.
Djokovic should also be expected to build upon what Federer did before him. Federer was the guinea pig that Djokovic was able to study.
Djokovic should also be expected to build upon what Federer did before him. Federer was the guinea pig that Djokovic was able to study.
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D
Dwell
Guest
Peak TTW.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
People have of course assumed underhand motives behind your phrasing here and gone on the defensive, but funnily enough I imagine the egg is the tip of the proverbial iceberg.This thread would be a lot more useful if it would talk about the "secrets" Djokovic is using to stay in top shape, like this CVAP pod: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904787404576532854267519860
And which ATGs did we lose to Djokovic? Dimitrov and Nishikori?
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Source? It has been well understood on tour and in many pro sports that ice baths are anti-inflammatory and good for recovery after matches. It is hard to believe that Federer didn’t follow this recovery protocol in his last decade.
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Razer
G.O.A.T.
You are exaggerating but not entirely wrong.
Djokovic had a big injury related slump when he was 29-30 but he seems to have no injuries at 36 and is taking care of his body well. The reason for this is in your 20s only same aged ATGs and in your 30s younger ATGs can push your body to the brink to break down, low skilled losers as rivals cannot do that. Federer himself did not have any major injuries in his 20s because he was hardly pushed, and then he faced hell later on from Djokodal, in case of Djokovic vice versa, that has helped him preserve his body well in his 30s.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Federer had no serious rival off clay till 2007
Icsa
Professional
Razer
G.O.A.T.
That's not relevant to the point which @Silentchimera is making, of course Federer did not have rivals till 07 and collected like 11-12 slams quickly, everybody knows that.
The point is, not having ATG rivals in your 30s also does help Djokovic to prolong his career without getting injured. Most of these mugs cannot make him run quick or stretch his body to the limit like what Stan/Murray/Federer/Nadal used to in Nole's peak years. If you have great players younger to you then they will not only beat you, they will also make you stretch your body more to the limit, and if you do that in your 30s then injuries will come for sure and your level will go down, footspeed will go down etc etc.
So in that regard Djokovic is very very very lucky.
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socallefty
G.O.A.T.
LeBron spends $1.5M a year to take care of his body and is playing like it. Federer doesn’t even take ice baths - I guess we can stop wondering why he stopped winning Slams (except briefly in 2017-18) at a relatively young age. Djokovic takes care of his body carefully like LeBron.
LeBron James reportedly spends $1.5 million per year to take care of his body — here's where it goes
Nobody in the NBA is more dedicated to the physical preparation of the game than LeBron James. From personal gyms, trainers, chefs, and the top equipment, James spends tons to stay in top shape.
www.businessinsider.com
Wonder if Nadal believes in recovering with ice baths.
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nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Its very suspicious. No one is doing anything about it. So whatever Nole is doing is technically legal and so does what Federer did. Its just Fed kept getting injured.
Here above he says he didn't like Ice baths. Must be some areas he didn't have discipline on.
This. Without Djokovic, noone would expose Federer from 2014 either. It only takes one ATG to stop an older one, its just that Medvedev or Tsitsipas isnt 2014+ -Djokovic.
To say that Djokovic stopped younger players from becoming ATGs is BS and you all know it. First of all there is room for more than one active ATG, and no player between Djoker and Alcaraz is ATG-potential.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
It’s harder to dominate in your 30s when you older and past your peak physical years.
Djokovic getting a weaker era when he’s older wasn’t as advantageous as Federer getting it in his physical peak years.
Federer had every advantage he could ask for and he still blew it.
You can say Djokovic always had Nadal. Yes, nadal has missed lots of tournaments with injury but Federer had a period of his career where there was no Nadal or Djokovic or they were babies.
Federer fans have no right to complain about anything. It’s just sour grapes that he ended up third wheel.
Fed messed up not winning enough between 2001-2003 Wimbledon. He also had plenty of chances to win more in some tight matches he lost.
He had an unassailable lead at one point and had plenty of chances to keep djokodal at bay. He failed any now he’s facing the consequences of that.
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Dwell
Guest
talk-tennis-warehouse
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Razer
G.O.A.T.
Wrong!
First of all, the clowns whom Djokovic is beating now are far worse than the ones in Federer's peer groups whom he dominated.
Secondly, as I said above, it is much worse to have ruthless men younger than you with more physicality having a go at you when you are in your 30s than in your 20s because it causes more wear and tear. In your 20s you can take them on toe to toe (like Djokovic did till 2016) but after that once you are in your 30s and have that slight dip in your energy and explosiveness then more injuries will come.
Do you think Djokovic in his 30s would have been tolerate mid 20s Fedal having a go at him daily? He would get injured, don't you understand ? They would make him run more, hurry up his strokes, they will force him to rapidly change directions, will put pressure on him, all this would happen daily. Eventually he would have got injured more and more in 30s and that would cause his footspeed to come down.
Why do you think Djokovic had a deadly injury requiring surgery in his 20s but never had one in his 30s ?
common sense man......think .... you will get the answer why.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Why didn’t Federer win more between 2001-2003?Wrong!
First of all, the clowns whom Djokovic is beating now are far worse than the ones in Federer's peer groups whom he dominated.
Secondly, as I said above, it is much worse to have ruthless men younger than you with more physicality having a go at you when you are in your 30s than in your 20s because it causes more wear and tear. In your 20s you can take them on toe to toe (like Djokovic did till 2016) but after that once you are in your 30s and have that slight dip in your energy and explosiveness then more injuries will come.
Do you think Djokovic in his 30s would have been tolerate mid 20s Fedal having a go at him daily? He would get injured, don't you understand ? They would make him run more, hurry up his strokes, they will force him to rapidly change directions, will put pressure on him, all this would happen daily. Eventually he would have got injured more and more in 30s and that would cause his footspeed to come down.
Why do you think Djokovic had a deadly injury requring surgery in his 20s but never had one in his 30s ?
Quite frankly the excuses Fed fans make on here is laughable. He lost and they need to get over it. He had the perfect lead with everything in his favour. He had the lead, fans on side, nice draws, the experience the lot. He couldn’t see it through.
People kept telling me he’s the most natural and talented player of the big 3. Well he didn’t show it when it mattered enough times. That’s all there is to it.
Federer has been a fantastic player but stop making excuses for him. He got caught because he deserved to get caught. He couldn’t win the big matches enough times to hold on to his GOAT crown or he wasted some early years of his career.
It feels like when I read on here like poor Federer he was robbed or it was miraculous he made it to what he did. He did great but he will tell you himself not enough in the end.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
I also disagree. Fed early competition was not much different to this one.Wrong!
First of all, the clowns whom Djokovic is beating now are far worse than the ones in Federer's peer groups whom he dominated.
Secondly, as I said above, it is much worse to have ruthless men younger than you with more physicality having a go at you when you are in your 30s than in your 20s because it causes more wear and tear. In your 20s you can take them on toe to toe (like Djokovic did till 2016) but after that once you are in your 30s and have that slight dip in your energy and explosiveness then more injuries will come.
Do you think Djokovic in his 30s would have been tolerate mid 20s Fedal having a go at him daily? He would get injured, don't you understand ? They would make him run more, hurry up his strokes, they will force him to rapidly change directions, will put pressure on him, all this would happen daily. Eventually he would have got injured more and more in 30s and that would cause his footspeed to come down.
Why do you think Djokovic had a deadly injury requiring surgery in his 20s but never had one in his 30s ?
There was hardly a player back then better than say Meddy at his peak on hard courts. Same when comparing them players to Alcaraz too. Sinner will probably end up better or at least on par with most of Fed competition then.
Fed best competition at start was old Agassi and roddick. It wasn’t a strong era and even players like thiem, meddy, Alcaraz or Sinner at their best could hold up in it. The likes of Zverev and Tsitsipas would probably win things if no peak Fed in way too.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Because it was a transition era of playing conditions & racquets both, players who grew up on gut were shifting to poly and were still learning how to perfect their strokes on the new courts which were slower. Djokovic, Murray & Nadal are younger than him and they got more time to perfect their strokes than him. Easy to blame him for 01-03 as if he was gonna collect a lot of slams? The 90s to 2000s was a transitional phase in Tennis unlike the post 2005 phase which was been constant until now with no radical changes.
First of all Roddick is better than Medvedev, old Agassi was also better than Medvedev.
Secondly, the stats in this below thread clearly show how pathetic 1990s losers are..... no wonder Djokovic is not even getting injured.
Come here : https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...akest-ever-do-you-agree.762383/#post-17825539
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Therefore, you only think Roddick might be better. Agassi was on the way out. Even Roddick is debatable and you can only say with confidence he was better than meddy on grass. Roddick was awful on clay and well HCs is close.
Fair enough you have a case with Roddick but that’s it. Fed had so many jokers and losers back in that time too. Let’s not forget just because it’s a long time ago.
I remember a lot of Feds early competition who were okay in best of 3 but couldn’t play best of 5 to save their life. The competition wasn’t much different. Players like davydenko, Nalbandian, Hewitt (after his early success), Blake, gonzalez, baggy, etc were okay players but never ATG or even close to it.
I have no problem admitting Djokovic has it easier now but Fed fans seem to struggle to accept it was the same then. It funny that they used to accept it more when he was leading but ever since he lost his records they hilariously trying to prop up these generation of players.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Safin too... he too was better than Meddy... Infact Safin at his best was even better than Murray/Wawrinka/anyone on HCs except the Big 3.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Good point. However, he didn’t sustain it very long. He literally peaked for a very small window of time and then gave up on the game or stopped working hard enough.
He was great at his peak but it was over quick. Therefore, Fed didn’t really need to worry about him for long.
Murray/wawrinka played at a higher level for a more consistent longer period of time. Safin might have went higher for short period but it was just a small period that was over fast.
Don't be delusional. What heights did Federer surmount? '08 & '12 WB were the highest Federer ever faced. Those heights Djokovic surmounted with regularity.
Nadal, Murray & Wawrinka are of the same generation as Djokovic, so he faced them with regularity. He faced peak Nadal ('10-11), Murray & Wawrinka.
Nadal becomes a draft dodger when it comes to WB & AO. When he was about to meet Djokovic at '22 WB, he suddenly came down with an injury.
Djokovic has a better winning percentage at USO than anyone except Sampras. Nadal is sixth.
So you think Nadal has a chance at WB next year? HAHAHA
I agree Federer messed up, too many stupid losses.
Djokovic has all the important records now, fair and square.
What i highly disagree with, is that Djokovic (and Fedal) turned potential ATGs into mugs. Nishikori/Raonic/Dimitrov to Tsitsipas/Zverev/Meddy arent ATG-potential, plain and simple. They arent even Stan/Murray-potential.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
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