Federer Wim 2009 final vs Djokovic Wim 2011 final?

[RS]

 

[RS]

Comment in how many sets.

 

[spottishwood]

Pre-becker Djoko? Nah!

 

[Kralingen]

Hm... I'll go with Federer. Don't think Nole was ready to play Federer on grass at that point.

He was quite good against Nadal but the serve/slice combo seemed to throw him for a loop in 2012.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Roger in whatever it takes.

 

[RS]

Hm... I'll go with Federer. Don't think Nole was ready to play Federer on grass at that point.

He was quite good against Nadal but the serve/slice combo seemed to throw him for a loop in 2012.

5 sets?

 

[spottishwood]

No more 10 match series, eh? @RS.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Federer barely beat his pigeon that day. Got outplayed in a lot of respects

 

[ffw2]

Federer barely beat his pigeon that day. Got outplayed in a lot of respects

Good thing peak Djokovic came along at RG '11 to save poor RF's legacy!

 

[Poisoned Slice]

No more 10 match series, eh? @RS.

Adapt or perish.

 

[RS]

No more 10 match series, eh? @RS.

You will have to see

 

[Kralingen]

5 sets?

Yeah or a tight 4. I mean this is the kind of match that comes down to a BP here and there, multiple TBs.

but it is definitely closer to a toss-up than it is Federer clearly. In fact toss-up is probably the right choice.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Good thing peak Djokovic came along at RG '11 to save poor RF's legacy!

I wish Federer had beaten Tsonga at Wimbledon that year. Only slam they didn’t play each other at.

 

[RS]

Roger in whatever it takes.

What would you rate both sets of finalists in both matches out of 10?

 

[RS]

I wish Federer had beaten Tsonga at Wimbledon that year. Only slam they didn’t play each other at.

Some people think Federer would have taken Djokovic out if Tsonga didn’t.

 

[ffw2]

I wish Federer had beaten Tsonga at Wimbledon that year. Only slam they didn’t play each other at.

Thankfully we learned what happens to Djokovic when he comes up against 38-year-old opposition at Wimbledon eight years later!

 

[spottishwood]

Yeah or a tight 4. I mean this is the kind of match that comes down to a BP here and there, multiple TBs.

but it is definitely closer to a toss-up than it is Federer clearly. In fact toss-up is probably the right choice.

Well that Federer doesn't lose TBs easily. If I'd have to choose a player to win me 3 TBs to win a match, it would definitely a relatively young Federer.

 

[spottishwood]

Thankfully we learned what happens to Djokovic when he comes up against 38-year-old opposition at Wimbledon eight years later!

Well, he came up against Fed the very next year in the same court and round they were supposed to meet in 2011.

 

[ffw2]

Well, he came up against Fed the very next year in the same court they were supposed to meet in 2011 and in same round also.

But more importantly, the 38-year-old version of him pushed the long-standing world #1 to the limit! They call him the Legacy-Destroyer™!

 

[RS]

Yeah or a tight 4. I mean this is the kind of match that comes down to a BP here and there, multiple TBs.

but it is definitely closer to a toss-up than it is Federer clearly. In fact toss-up is probably the right choice.

How would you have 2009 Roddick vs 2011 Nadal?

 

[abmk]

Federer in tight 4 sets or 5-setter.

 

[RS]

Federer in tight 4 sets or 5-setter.

How would you rate both out of 10 in the SF and the F?

 

[Kralingen]

How would you have 2009 Roddick vs 2011 Nadal?

Will have to think about that one. I don't have a strong lean either way, Roddick served better and had good power/instinctual aggressiveness, but Nadal would definitely find it easier in rallies than he did vs. 2011 Djokovic especially on the BH wing.

 

[RS]

I want to pick Djokovic but he let go in the 3rd set. If he doesn’t I think he edges this one in 5.

Going to vote tossup.

 

[TMF]

Good thing peak Djokovic came along at RG '11 to save poor RF's legacy!

Had they never met at 2011 RG, rest assured that Nole would beat Federer in this hypothetical match.

They never met in 2011 Wimbledon, but of course Nole wins this hypothetical match too

 

[Poisoned Slice]

I think Peak hypothetical Djokovic is capable of taking it to 4.

 

[The Guru]

Djokovic by a clear margin. Even with the matchup advantage Fed does not have enough to make up for substantially worse returning and baselining. Any pre 09 version would make a much better comparison.

 

[mike danny]

Federer barely beat his pigeon that day. Got outplayed in a lot of respects

Only goes to illustrate that Roddick is not a weak era mug.

And besides, Djokovic got outplayed by inferior players too and actually lost a bunch of slams to them.

 

[RS]

Djokovic by a clear margin. Even with the matchup advantage Fed does not have enough to make up for substantially worse returning and baselining. Any pre 09 version would make a much better comparison.

How would you see 2011 Djokovic vs 2012 Federer going?

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Federer barely beat his pigeon that day. Got outplayed in a lot of respects

In what respects did Federer get outplayed?

 

[helterskelter]

Hm... I'll go with Federer. Don't think Nole was ready to play Federer on grass at that point.

He was quite good against Nadal but the serve/slice combo seemed to throw him for a loop in 2012.

You might be right but 2012 was under the roof, which certainly helped Federer. And Djokovic wasn’t playing as confidently then as in 2011. So I think this hypothetical would be close.

 

[RS]

I think 2011 Djokovic beats 2009 Roddick easier than Federer managed because of his ROS.

 

[Third Serve]

Federer barely beat his pigeon that day. Got outplayed in a lot of respects

tbf Roddick was really clutch to make it a close match. The stats are very solidly in Fed’s favor but Roddick raised his game in many important intervals to make it run the distance. Well, all except one, that is.

 

[helterskelter]

I wish Federer had beaten Tsonga at Wimbledon that year. Only slam they didn’t play each other at.

I’d forgotten federer dropped back to back two set leads in slams that year. Blew the first set of the RG final too.

 

[mike danny]

Will have to think about that one. I don't have a strong lean either way, Roddick served better and had good power/instinctual aggressiveness, but Nadal would definitely find it easier in rallies than he did vs. 2011 Djokovic especially on the BH wing.

I didn't find Nadal impressive in that Wimb final.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Djokovic in 5 I think.

 

[spottishwood]

I think 2011 Djokovic beats 2009 Roddick easier than Federer managed because of his ROS.

Roddick troubled Djoko more than he ever troubled Fed.

 

[RS]

Roddick troubled Djoko more than he ever troubled Fed.

In general terms yes. I meant in that match.

 

[RS]

Djokovic in 5 I think.

Same with 2009 Roddick vs 2011 Djokovic?

 

[RS]

Will have to think about that one. I don't have a strong lean either way, Roddick served better and had good power/instinctual aggressiveness, but Nadal would definitely find it easier in rallies than he did vs. 2011 Djokovic especially on the BH wing.

I think that’s a close matchup as well. 2007/2008/2010 Nadal wins in 4/5 though

 

[Mivic]

Will have to think about that one. I don't have a strong lean either way, Roddick served better and had good power/instinctual aggressiveness, but Nadal would definitely find it easier in rallies than he did vs. 2011 Djokovic especially on the BH wing.

You've really been drinking the TTW Roddick kool aid haven't you? I'm honestly sick and tired of people pretending 2011 Nadal was some bum just to discredit Djokovic and downplay the magnitude of what he achieved that season against what was, make no mistake about it, a prime Nadal. I don't care how well he served, there's absolutely no way 2009 Roddick's half assed ground game is holding up against that version of Nadal over 5 sets.

 

[Mivic]

I think that’s a close matchup as well. 2007/2008/2010 Nadal wins in 4/5 though

09 Roddick is so overrated.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Same with 2009 Roddick vs 2011 Djokovic?

Djokovic in 5 or 4 depending on Roddique's clutchness.
Against Nadal I think it's on Roddick's racquet, although he could lose.

 

[RS]

09 Roddick is so overrated.

About similar to a peak Hewitt and Murray on grass?

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

You've really been drinking the TTW Roddick kool aid haven't you? I'm honestly sick and tired of people pretending 2011 Nadal was some bum just to discredit Djokovic and downplay the magnitude of what he achieved that season against what was, make no mistake about it, a prime Nadal. I don't care how well he served, there's absolutely no way 2009 Roddick's half assed ground game is holding up against that version of Nadal over 5 sets.

Says the Djokovic propagandist...

 

[Third Serve]

Not saying this is happening in this thread but I think it’s kind of funny how the same people dissing Fed’s 2009 Wimbledon form tend to be the ones lifting up his 2008 run on some pedestal when he was possibly (though not definitely) worse in many respects.

That being said, this specific matchup could go to Novak.

 

[RS]

Djokovic in 5 or 4 depending on Roddique's clutchness.
Against Nadal I think it's on Roddick's racquet, although he could lose.

I think 4 tight sets to 5 sets in favour of Djokovic as well.

How do you see 2002 Hewitt vs 2009 Roddick going?

 

[Kralingen]

You might be right but 2012 was under the roof, which certainly helped Federer. And Djokovic wasn’t playing as confidently then as in 2011. So I think this hypothetical would be close.

True, I didn't factor that in. Honestly 2012 is a great example of a match on a knife's edge. Djoko flubs an overhead, Federer saves some BPs expertly, off you go. It just seemed to me like '12 was Djokovic unsure how to deal with Federer's grass game. I am a big proponent of match experience making a large difference. This is my fundamental issue with hypotheticals.

I didn't find Nadal impressive in that Wimb final.

Sure, but he was playing a guy who had owned him for the previous 4 months, gave him no out balls from the baseline, and had a better serve/return complex. What exactly was he supposed to do vs. '11 Djokovic ripping laser BHs? Djokovic can completely outplay Nadal in a way no one in tennis history can.

You've really been drinking the TTW Roddick kool aid haven't you? I'm honestly sick and tired of people pretending 2011 Nadal was some bum just to discredit Djokovic and downplay the magnitude of what he achieved that season against what was, make no mistake about it, a prime Nadal. I don't care how well he served, there's absolutely no way 2009 Roddick's half assed ground game is holding up against that version of Nadal over 5 sets.

Then again, Mike is right. he was lacklustre in intensity and served poorly so let's not act like '11 Nadal was really playing great. He was clearly better, taking opponents out of the equation, in '07/08/10.

Long story short I don't really have a clue.

 

[DSH]

'Chokerer' in 5 sets.
He won't blow a 40-15 lead this time!

 

[RS]

Wim 2011 was a underrated slam in general actually.