Federer's Forehand during his peak

Rago

Rago

Hall of Fame
So for fellow Fed fans out there, do you think Federer was more conservative off the Forehand side mid 2006 onwards compared to say 2004-2005?

Overall, I believe Federer was more conservative in general as well 2007 onwards and started playing more as a power baseliner which most likely arose in an effort to win the French Open.

Discuss.
 
Federer FH was sublime in 2004-06. That shot can be in contention for the best FH ever. From 2007-09 it was great, but it really has not been an outright match changing weapon since then. The only year it was near those heights was 2012.

Overall, I don't think 3 years is enough to elevate it to decisive GOAT FH. Rafael's FH is GOAT imo.
 
ForehandCross said:
Federer FH was sublime in 2004-06. That shot can be in contention for the best FH ever. From 2007-09 it was great, but it really has not been an outright match changing weapon since then. The only year it was near those heights was 2012.

Overall, I don't think 3 years is enough to elevate it to decisive GOAT FH. Rafael's FH is GOAT imo.
Click to expand...

Think even post 04-06 Fed had the better forehand on HC and grass in most years compared to Nadal.
 
Nadal certainly has the superior forehand and is better from the baseline. In a neutral rally Nadal is the greatest in the history of the sport. It's Federer's remarkable serve that gives him a huge advantage against other greats.
 
ForehandCross said:
Federer FH was sublime in 2004-06. That shot can be in contention for the best FH ever. From 2007-09 it was great, but it really has not been an outright match changing weapon since then. The only year it was near those heights was 2012.

Overall, I don't think 3 years is enough to elevate it to decisive GOAT FH. Rafael's FH is GOAT imo.
Click to expand...
Kind of reminds me of Roddick's change in FH as well. Roddick's forehand was monstrous especially at Wimbledon in 2004; Andy saw better results on average but couldn't really make it count after the change in 2005.

Federer's results on clay would have taken a hit but he might have been more dangerous on grass and HC for a little longer if he'd stuck with the technique he used in 2004/05. I remember Federer saying at some point that "working on your weaknesses makes you well rounded but working on your strengths makes you a dangerous player".

Funny enough, Federer's best shot (Forehand) is what has let him down in quite a few crucial stages of big matches. He started spraying quite a few crosscourt forehand errors 2008 onwards and one of them culminated in that famous racquet smash at Miami.

Nadal hardly sprays errors off the forehand wing and can really flatten it out when he wants to.

weakera said:
In a neutral rally Nadal is the greatest in the history of the sport. It's Federer's remarkable serve that gives him a huge advantage against other greats.
Click to expand...
Never thought I'd agree with you on something but here we are.
 
Rago said:
Kind of reminds me of Roddick's change in FH as well. Roddick's forehand was monstrous especially at Wimbledon in 2004; Andy saw better results on average but couldn't really make it count after the change in 2005.

Federer's results on clay would have taken a hit but he might have been more dangerous on grass and HC for a little longer if he'd stuck with the technique he used in 2004/05. I remember Federer saying at some point that "working on your weaknesses makes you well rounded but working on your strengths makes you a dangerous player".

Funny enough, Federer's best shot (Forehand) is what has let him down in quite a few crucial stages of big matches. He started spraying quite a few crosscourt forehand errors 2008 onwards and one of them culminated in that famous racquet smash at Miami.

Nadal hardly sprays errors off the forehand wing and can really flatten it out when he wants to.


Never thought I'd agree with you on something but here we are.
Click to expand...

The late career change in Federer's game towards suicidal aggression from inside the baseline had a lot to do with his growing lack of ability to control rallies from the FH side from the baseline.


In 2006 Rome, he was outright wrestling control of the rallies away from Nadal once the balls went to his FH. That kind of FH was more beneficial even on Clay imo. And Federer FH has always been random error prone, it's just that in those years it used to consistently reach extreme heights despite it and hence everyone forgets the random loose errors every 10 shots or so.
 
He was ripping it on that wing from 2003-09. That was the shot that took him to where he is today. His FH was the GOAT back then. He regained some spunk on that shot once again in 2012. But ever since he made the racquet switch, it's been quite tame. But Federer's FH on the PS 90 is the greatest, most versatile forehand in my book.
 
Krish0608 said:
He was ripping it on that wing from 2003-09. That was the shot that took him to where he is today. His FH was the GOAT back then. He regained some spunk on that shot once again in 2012. But ever since he made the racquet switch, it's been quite tame. But Federer's FH on the PS 90 is the greatest, most versatile forehand in my book.
Click to expand...

Forehand was very good in 2017 too. Won him two slams.
 
Fed’s forehand from 2004-2006 was probably the best of all time. Greater emphasis on 2004-2005 than 2006 but it still applies to the latter.

It was still a very good forehand from 2007-2012 but not quite as consistently powerful. Had a bit of a loopy motion to it too.

His forehand hasn’t been the same since he made the racket change but I like what he did in 2017.
 
weakera said:
Nadal certainly has the superior forehand and is better from the baseline. In a neutral rally Nadal is the greatest in the history of the sport. It's Federer's remarkable serve that gives him a huge advantage against other greats.
Click to expand...
Of course Federer's forehand is almost universally regarded as the greatest FH in tennis history:

http://tennisgrandstand.com/2017/02/15/the-greatest-forehands-in-tennis-history-ranked/

http://www.worldtennismagazine.com/archives/8087

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/09/sports/tennis/who-has-the-best-shots-in-mens-tennis.html
 
BeatlesFan said:
Of course Federer's forehand is almost universally regarded as the greatest FH in tennis history:

http://tennisgrandstand.com/2017/02/15/the-greatest-forehands-in-tennis-history-ranked/

http://www.worldtennismagazine.com/archives/8087

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/09/sports/tennis/who-has-the-best-shots-in-mens-tennis.html
Click to expand...


Linking NYT, an employer of Ben Rothenberg and a notorious peddler of fake news, makes this argument dead on arrival (in addition to deferring to the heavily Fed-biased media rather than forming an actual argument).
 
weakera said:
Linking NYT, an employer of Ben Rothenberg and a notorious peddler of fake news, makes this argument dead on arrival (in addition to deferring to the heavily Fed-biased media rather than forming an actual argument).
Click to expand...
There is no actual argument, it's almost universally accepted (except by Rafa fanatics) that Fed has the greatest FH in tennis history. You should be quite proud and pleased that Rafa is #2, that's a tremendous achievement right there. And I'm not arguing Fed still has the greatest FH at age 38, it's declined significantly also with the racket change in 2013/2014.
 
Federer has the best forehand of all time. During his best years, it's one of the most devastating shot, especially the inside out forehand.

 
Last edited:
BeatlesFan said:
Of course Federer's forehand is almost universally regarded as the greatest FH in tennis history:

http://tennisgrandstand.com/2017/02/15/the-greatest-forehands-in-tennis-history-ranked/

http://www.worldtennismagazine.com/archives/8087
Click to expand...
In the opinion of random, anonymous blog writers

BeatlesFan said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/09/sports/tennis/who-has-the-best-shots-in-mens-tennis.html
Click to expand...
You realize this one was for who had the best current forehand, no? Kyle Edmund at #5 should have been a hint...
 
jm1980 said:
In the opinion of random, anonymous blog writers


You realize this one was for who had the best current forehand, no? Kyle Edmund at #5 should have been a hint...
Click to expand...
Perhaps you haven't follow tennis since Roger was young. Even commentators, and ex-players have said Roger has the best forehand to ever play the game.
 
TMF said:
ROFLMFAO. Is there anything that you(clayqueen, NADALalot, etc.) don't believe your idol is NOT #1.

Next thing you will argue Nadal has the best backhand, best volley, best serve. And best legs, best hair....
Click to expand...
There are Nadal fans who legitimately believe he has the best volleys. And then they show compilations of Rafa coming to the net to put away easy floaters. LOL
 
TMF said:
ROFLMFAO. Is there anything that you(clayqueen, NADALalot, etc.) don't believe your idol is NOT #1.

Next thing you will argue Nadal has the best backhand, best volley, best serve. And best legs, best hair....
Click to expand...

Federer is the best at everything, but still got dominated by his rivals ;)
 
weakera said:
Linking NYT, an employer of Ben Rothenberg and a notorious peddler of fake news, makes this argument dead on arrival (in addition to deferring to the heavily Fed-biased media rather than forming an actual argument).
Click to expand...
And your argument is that Nadal's FH > Fed's FH because Fed's serve is better. Great stuff.

Even if we're going to use neutral rallies as the barometer for FH quality, Rafa's FH is at best even with peak Fed's. His superiority from the baseline comes from his stronger backhand and better court coverage.
 
jm1980 said:
I'm aware of tennis media fellating Federer non-stop, yes
Click to expand...
These are tennis observers who actually know what they are talking about.
I don't understand why you can't accept that Federer's FH is widely considered the best in the game.
I mean it's like someone who can't accept Nadal is the clay GOAT when he's widely considered the best clay courter.
 
TMF said:
I don't understand why you can't accept that Federer's FH is widely considered the best in the game.
Click to expand...
citation needed

TMF said:
I mean it's like someone who can't accept Nadal is the clay GOAT when he's widely considered the best clay courter.
Click to expand...
Nadal's clay achievements are readily apparent, and can be easily and objectively measured. Nobody comes close. Fed's FH being the best ever is a much more subjective call
 
jm1980 said:
citation needed


Nadal's clay achievements are readily apparent, and can be easily and objectively measured. Nobody comes close. Fed's FH being the best ever is a much more subjective call
Click to expand...

You only see the way you wanted to see.
 
Third Serve said:
False equivalence
Click to expand...
The guy keeps trying to compare things like Nadal's clay achievements with Fed's FH. One can be objectively quantified, the other is a subjective assessment

Typical Fed fan insecurity though. I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist if somebody said Novak didn't have the greatest BH ever
 
jm1980 said:
According to some Fed fans, he has:
  • Best FH ever
  • Best serve ever
  • Best slice ever
  • Best volleys ever
  • Best footwork ever
Yet he still has a losing record against his closest rivals :unsure:
Click to expand...

Any links, quotes ?

Didn't think so.
 
TMF said:
Any links, quotes ?

Didn't think so.
Click to expand...
Best FH: see this thread
Best volleys: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/who-has-the-best-volleys-in-history.298348/ - 6 geniuses vote for Federer
Best slice: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/best-slice-backhand-ever.234476/ - various geniuses arguing for Fed, including you
Best serve: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/greatest-serves-of-all-time.306579/ - Federer constantly mentioned
Best footwork: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/greatest-footwork-of-all-time.395337/

But...

Novak Djokovic VS Roger Federer | Head 2 Head | ATP Tour | Tennis

ATP Tour player match head to head results and stats.
www.atptour.com www.atptour.com

Rafael Nadal VS Roger Federer | Head 2 Head | ATP Tour | Tennis

ATP Tour player match head to head results and stats.
www.atptour.com www.atptour.com
 
jm1980 said:
Best FH: see this thread
Best volleys: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/who-has-the-best-volleys-in-history.298348/ - 6 geniuses vote for Federer
Best slice: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/best-slice-backhand-ever.234476/ - various geniuses arguing for Fed, including you
Best serve: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/greatest-serves-of-all-time.306579/ - Federer constantly mentioned
Best footwork: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/greatest-footwork-of-all-time.395337/
Click to expand...

The poll is not public. Any troll could have voted for Federer. You can't conclude that they are Federer fans.

And peak Federer arguably has the best footwork so he does has a strong case for being considered the best(except for Fed hater).
 
Poisoned Slice said:
Hey, Rago. Good to see ya. (y)
Click to expand...
giphy.gif


@Federer and Del Potro
 
One problem I have noticed with Federer's forehand is that even at his best, he tended to drop the ball a bit short off that wing often enough especially on the mud and when approaching the net.
 
MeatTornado said:
And your argument is that Nadal's FH > Fed's FH because Fed's serve is better. Great stuff.

Even if we're going to use neutral rallies as the barometer for FH quality, Rafa's FH is at best even with peak Fed's. His superiority from the baseline comes from his stronger backhand and better court coverage.
Click to expand...
There's a grand total of 2 slam matches off clay in which Nadal could actually claim some clear superiority vs Fed from the baseline. 2014 AO, where Federer got annihilated off the baseline, and 2008 Wimby, which was a rather special performance by Fed who was unusually poor at returning, defending his BH, and very loose off the FH to boot. Yes, in every single other one (and 11 RG actually) Fed won more long rallies besides 17 AO where it was even.

The Fedal rivalry is just so misunderstood. Off clay, it is the way it is because of how the 1-3 shot dynamics change, not because baseline god Nadal is out here grinding servebot Fed into the dust. Even on clay it's faaaar from the case that Nadal had some kind of huge edge in long rallies, although he did have one.

In 09/12 AO, it was entirely Nadal managing to apply more consistent pressure behind his serve than Federer that made the difference, not what most people would think of as baseline play. This happens because Federer's usual serve+1 plays all go backwards against Nadal due to the lefty factor and he ends up overplaying many errors as a result and Nadal instantly seizing control of tons of rallies on his own serve by spinning the serve away from Fed's BH.
 
Last edited:
Rago said:
One problem I have noticed with Federer's forehand is that even at his best, he tended to drop the ball a bit short off that wing often enough especially on the mud and when approaching the net.
Click to expand...
Thankfully we have Ralph Nadal's GOAT FH to show us how it's done on that front.
 
TMF said:
The poll is not public. Any troll could have voted for Federer. You can't conclude that they are Federer fans.

And peak Federer arguably has the best footwork so he does has a strong case for being considered the best(except for Fed hater).
Click to expand...
Federer fans always want to throw Fed's name in the hat whenever we talk about "best _____ ever," and how he could have played in any era and still been great while his rivals would get "destroyed" if they had to play with different equipment or under different conditions. Half the time they will also get their knickers in a twist if someone dares to say Fed doesn't have the best _____ ever

Just like Fed is always the winner of hypothetical matches, he is also the best ever in practically every stroke, because it's impossible to give an objective and factual answer to contradict the Fedt**ded claims. The only thing that's not "best ever" is his BH, but even the most delusional Fed fans can't claim that one after seeing the abuse it has endured over the years at the hands of the guy with a FH that's arguably just as good as Fed's, if not better
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

NoleFam
  • Poll Poll
Federer's Grass Peak
5 6 7
Replies
331
Views
17K
Holmes
Holmes
Clay lover
Nadal forehand transformation
Replies
18
Views
3K
matchmaker
matchmaker
Devin
  • Poll Poll
Better Stretch of Dominance in Fed's Peak?
Replies
1
Views
347
Zhilady
Zhilady
Holmes
  • Poll Poll
When you think about, Roddick's record against Federer makes perfect sense.
Replies
16
Views
1K
Waves
W
F
Consistency of the Fed
Replies
3
Views
561
mike danny
mike danny
Back
Top