Federer's loses this year

TeamOB

Professional
Roger has lost 8 times this year. In 7 of those 8 losses (87.5%) he has had leads or significant chances to win:

1. Against Hewitt in Brisbane. Had BPs in the 3rd.

2. Against Djoker in IW. Got to a 3rd set tiebreak, then fell apart.

3. Against Nishikori in Miami. Played amazing to get up a set and a break, then fell apart and lost.

4. Against Stan in MC. Played very well to win the first set and in the beginning of the second, then faded away.

5. Against Chardy in Rome. Had MP in the 3rd set breaker and ended up losing.

6. Against Gulbis at RG. Had an overhead on SP in the 2nd. Ended up losing the set and the match.

7. Against Djoker at Wimbledon. Had BP in the 5th, ended up losing.

These are all matches he could have won! The only match he really got dismantled in this year was vs Nadal at AO. All his other loses were actually winnable matches! What do you think about this? Should we be worried about this trend? Why do you think this happened?
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
No. Why would I be worried? That's classic Fed, and even more so since he's declined. Not worried, just resigned to the fact that he's getting older.
 

Devilito

Hall of Fame
Squanderer in full force. Lets not forget that he holds the record for worse break point conversion rate / number of break points lost in the history of tennis. Shows he's good enough to get break points and get himself into a winning position but mentally just falls apart when it comes time to close. He obviously wasn't always this way but his mental game is vastly overrated and lately has completely fallen apart. His talent and skill was so great he never really needed in the past to rely on huge comebacks and tight situations when he just dominated everyone. Now that he's not longer dominating, his weaknesses really stick out. Compared to guys like Novak or Rafa who are mental gods and save break points / match points like it was some sort of hobby, Fed is a complete clown.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Nishikori loss hurts , because he was playing so well.

Wimbledon, he looked like he was going to win till 4-4, 15-15 OH point. And after that point he just crumbled.

I didnt see the Hewitt match, but all other matches , he looked more on the losing side than the winning side in the match.
 

ARFED

Professional
Squanderer in full force. Lets not forget that he holds the record for worse break point conversion rate / number of break points lost in the history of tennis. Shows he's good enough to get break points and get himself into a winning position but mentally just falls apart when it comes time to close. He obviously wasn't always this way but his mental game is vastly overrated and lately has completely fallen apart. His talent and skill was so great he never really needed in the past to rely on huge comebacks and tight situations when he just dominated everyone. Now that he's not longer dominating, his weaknesses really stick out. Compared to guys like Novak or Rafa who are mental gods and save break points / match points like it was some sort of hobby, Fed is a complete clown.
Fed a complete clown? Well let`s look at the numbers, he has a breakpoint conversion % of 41 (the same as Sampras BTW, who supossedly is a mental giant). Nadal and Djokovic have breakpoint conversion % of 45 and 44 respectevly. Not much of a difference if you ask me, and remeber as they age those percentages are going down, the same as Fed`s numbers are going down. Furthermore, Fed has a superior percentage of brakepoints saved than both Nadal and Djoko, granted he has a better serve (in this statistic he comes behind only to Sampras and Roddick of players shorter than 1.90 m) but he is way past his prime and he still is ahead of them and the margin is going to get wider and wider. He is one of the best, if not the outright best, tiebreak player of all times. As you say, seems like Fed doesn`t handle pressure well.
 

bluescreen

Hall of Fame
Roger has lost 8 times this year. In 7 of those 8 losses (87.5%) he has had leads or significant chances to win:

1. Against Hewitt in Brisbane. Had BPs in the 3rd.

2. Against Djoker in IW. Got to a 3rd set tiebreak, then fell apart.

3. Against Nishikori in Miami. Played amazing to get up a set and a break, then fell apart and lost.

4. Against Stan in MC. Played very well to win the first set and in the beginning of the second, then faded away.

5. Against Chardy in Rome. Had MP in the 3rd set breaker and ended up losing.

6. Against Gulbis at RG. Had an overhead on SP in the 2nd. Ended up losing the set and the match.

7. Against Djoker at Wimbledon. Had BP in the 5th, ended up losing.

These are all matches he could have won! The only match he really got dismantled in this year was vs Nadal at AO. All his other loses were actually winnable matches! What do you think about this? Should we be worried about this trend? Why do you think this happened?
This "trend" is based on fallable logic.

You have to also look at all matches federer has won this year. How many of those were close? You're basing your observations only on matches lost, not matches won.

After a quick browse of his matches this year, it looks like he has many more than 8 wins in relatively close matches (or matches that could have been close if he stepped off the gas).
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
Even peak Federer in 2005-2006:

Lost to Safin at the 2005 Australian Open after having a match point in the fourth set

Lost to Gasquet at 2005 Monte Carlo, after having a match point

Lost to Nalbandian at the 2005 Masters Cup, after serving for the match at 6-5 in the fifth set and going up 30-0

Lost to Nadal at 2006 Rome, after leading 4-1 in the fifth set, after having 2 championship points when Nadal was serving at 5-6, and after blowing 3-1, 4-2 and 5-3 leads in the fifth set tiebreak.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
OP also proves that Federer squandered a lot chances in his career.

As much as Federer have accomplished, there were too many wasted opportunities, and he has underachieved given all the talent he got.
 
Roger has lost 8 times this year. In 7 of those 8 losses (87.5%) he has had leads or significant chances to win:

1. Against Hewitt in Brisbane. Had BPs in the 3rd.

2. Against Djoker in IW. Got to a 3rd set tiebreak, then fell apart.

3. Against Nishikori in Miami. Played amazing to get up a set and a break, then fell apart and lost.

4. Against Stan in MC. Played very well to win the first set and in the beginning of the second, then faded away.

5. Against Chardy in Rome. Had MP in the 3rd set breaker and ended up losing.

6. Against Gulbis at RG. Had an overhead on SP in the 2nd. Ended up losing the set and the match.

7. Against Djoker at Wimbledon. Had BP in the 5th, ended up losing.

These are all matches he could have won! The only match he really got dismantled in this year was vs Nadal at AO. All his other loses were actually winnable matches! What do you think about this? Should we be worried about this trend? Why do you think this happened?
No, he couldn't. It went to 5th set only because Djokovic gave away 4th set, it was a fluke . Compare it with RG-13 semifinal when Djokovic earned his 5th set by tremendous return game.
 
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TeamOB

Professional
No, he couldn't. It went to 5th set only because Djokovic gave away 4th set, it was a fluke . Compare it with RG-13 semifinal when Djokovic earned his 5th set by tremendous return game.
Yeah, Nole lapsed badly to lose that 4th (and lost a 1st set that he also should have won). But once it got to the 5th Fed had chances to win. He definitely COULD have won the match.
 

Roddick85

Hall of Fame
Out of all the matches you listed, I think the 2 matches against Djokovic are the ones that really hurted. In both matches, he was able to come back and almost win, only to pretty much disappear in the TB at IW and late in the 5th at W. Not to take anything away from Nole, but Federer should of won those matches.

As heartbreaking as it is to see Fed lose those close matches, we have to appreciate the fact that at now 33, he still plays well enough to put himself into a position where winning is still a decent possibility for him. No one should overlook that.
 
Out of all the matches you listed, I think the 2 matches against Djokovic are the ones that really hurted. In both matches, he was able to come back and almost win, only to pretty much disappear in the TB at IW and late in the 5th at W. Not to take anything away from Nole, but Federer should of won those matches.

As heartbreaking as it is to see Fed lose those close matches, we have to appreciate the fact that at now 33, he still plays well enough to put himself into a position where winning is still a decent possibility for him. No one should overlook that.
Excuses, excuses, excuses...
 

Charlemagne

Hall of Fame
OP also proves that Federer squandered a lot chances in his career.

As much as Federer have accomplished, there were too many wasted opportunities, and he has underachieved given all the talent he got.
I have to kind of agree. I can't remember (I could be wrong) Nadal losing a grand slam match where he had multiple match points, or momentum or whatever on his side... I almost lost respect for Fed after that disastrous 2011 USO semifinal against Djoker. Still love the guy though in spite of all that :razz:
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I have to kind of agree. I can't remember (I could be wrong) Nadal losing a grand slam match where he had multiple match points, or momentum or whatever on his side... I almost lost respect for Fed after that disastrous 2011 USO semifinal against Djoker. Still love the guy though in spite of all that :razz:
AO 2012 for Nadal. Not as many as Fed obviously, but he does have one.

Besides, who cares if Nadal doesn't lose many tight matches in slams? All he does is get injured or blown out in his slam losses. Still a loss at the end of the day.
 

Charlemagne

Hall of Fame
AO 2012 for Nadal. Not as many as Fed obviously, but he does have one.

Besides, who cares if Nadal doesn't lose many tight matches in slams? All he does is get injured or blown out in his slam losses. Still a loss at the end of the day.
To be honest, I think Nadal was very fortunate with the heavy topspin lefty playing style against Fed. Not to take anything away from him, but anyone who has ever played tennis knows that that is kryptonite for a one handed backhand player... Now, is kryptonite better than superman :?
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
what do you expect from a 33 year old who stacked up his slam count during a weak era.
After 8 years of hard work, 50 pounds of weight-loss, and tremendous improvement, Baghdatis has moved from slams in 2003 – 2007 to challengers these days. And YET, people wonder why the much-improved Federer is sailing slamless these years, getting stomped repeatedly by the likes of injured Nishikori.
 

Charlemagne

Hall of Fame
After 8 years of hard work, 50 pounds of weight-loss, and tremendous improvement, Baghdatis has moved from slams in 2003 – 2007 to challengers these days. And YET, people wonder why the much-improved Federer is sailing slamless these years, getting stomped repeatedly by the likes of injured Nishikori.
He beat Nishikori pretty handily at Halle, and lost a close 3 setter at Miami... That's not "getting stomped".
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
He beat Nishikori pretty handily at Halle, and lost a close 3 setter at Miami... That's not "getting stomped".
Yes, with his triumph over barely walking Nishikori, Federer joins Dustin Brown in the Halle hall of fame, the latter courtesy of Nadal bothering to fly in for a day to avoid contractual penalties and pick up the appearance check!:lol:
 

Charlemagne

Hall of Fame
Yes, with his triumph over barely walking Nishikori, Federer joins Dustin Brown in the Halle hall of fame, the latter courtesy of Nadal bothering to fly in for a day to avoid contractual penalties and pick up the appearance check!:lol:
Yep. Astute analysis as always.
 

Charlemagne

Hall of Fame
AO 2012 for Nadal. Not as many as Fed obviously, but he does have one.

Besides, who cares if Nadal doesn't lose many tight matches in slams? All he does is get injured or blown out in his slam losses. Still a loss at the end of the day.
If Fed had the mental strength of Nadal, I think he'd have 19 or 20 slams
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
If Fed had the mental strength of Nadal, I think he'd have 19 or 20 slams
+1.

If he was determine as Nadal who treats every point as a match point, Federer would have won more slams, more Master Series, and greater ranking.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Yes, with his triumph over barely walking Nishikori, Federer joins Dustin Brown in the Halle hall of fame, the latter courtesy of Nadal bothering to fly in for a day to avoid contractual penalties and pick up the appearance check!:lol:
:lol::lol::lol:
 

Charlemagne

Hall of Fame
+1.

If he was determine as Nadal who treats every point as a match point, Federer would have won more slams, more Master Series, and greater ranking.
Regardless of how you personally feel about Nadal, you have to admire his hunger and mental strength. And his desire to improve his game year by year
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
+1.

If he was determine as Nadal who treats every point as a match point, Federer would have won more slams, more Master Series, and greater ranking.
+1 x 2

And if Federer had Nadal's groundstrokes, he might have won the Olympic too!:lol:
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
Yes, with his triumph over barely walking Nishikori, Federer joins Dustin Brown in the Halle hall of fame, the latter courtesy of Nadal bothering to fly in for a day to avoid contractual penalties and pick up the appearance check!:lol:
7 Halle titles...

Remember So Bad thinks Nadal has the most aesthetic game ever and Federer the ugliest game ever.

This is like trying to argue with a lunatic in an insane asylum who wears a football helmet and drools.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Regardless of how you personally feel about Nadal, you have to admire his hunger and mental strength. And his desire to improve his game year by year
Believe me, I've always wish that Federer have Nadal mental strength and determination, but he never had that in him. Kudos for Nadal who was able to maximize his potentials, doesn't waste his chances because he was always the one who wanted the most.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
+1 x 2

And if Federer had Nadal's groundstrokes, he might have won the Olympic too!:lol:
LMAO! Federer laughs at ridiculous 4 year tournaments, with the stage always changing! Unlike the glorious World Tour Finals which came to their senses and have been played at the same venue for some time now! His mother Lynette had to talk him into competing in the 2012 Olympics, which took around 90 minutes, and she barely succeded! The tournament directors were contemplating giving him multiple "lack of effort" warnings throughout his matches! LOL!!:lol:
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
Believe me, I've always wish that Federer have Nadal mental strength and determination, but he never had that in him. Kudos for Nadal who was able to maximize his potentials, doesn't waste his chances because he was always the one who wanted the most.
So let's conveniently forget how Federer stormed back to go on that furious 9-month run from Nov 2011 to August 2012. Let's focus on the down periods only. Let's pretend he's not trying to improve by bringing in Edberg. Sure the volleys he's missed in the last 2 matches are stunning, but that will sort itself out.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
7 Halle titles...

Remember So Bad thinks Nadal has the most aesthetic game ever and Federer the ugliest game ever.

This is like trying to argue with a lunatic in an insane asylum who wears a football helmet and drools.
I am willing to accept that esthetics can be subjective to an extent, but there is no detour around Halle, the big gaping black hole on Nadal’s resumee. It is admittedly worse than WTF, but certainly not as ignominious as snubbing the Basel!:lol:
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
So let's conveniently forget how Federer stormed back to go on that furious 9-month run from Nov 2011 to August 2012. Let's focus on the down periods only. Let's pretend he's not trying to improve by bringing in Edberg. Sure the volleys he's missed in the last 2 matches are stunning, but that will sort itself out.
He wanted a new coach, some changes in his game because he wants to win. We all know that, but that's not my point. When at a grand stage and in a tight match, Federer isn't as half of a fighter as Nadal, Seles or Michael Jordan. The lack of focus/concentration seem like he's not hungry enough to want to win. Sure he won many tough matches, but his sheer talent overcomes those obstacles, not because he was a fierce fighter, or mentally stronger than his opponents. Federer talent and ability is to Nadal determine and mental strength.
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
He wanted a new coach, some changes in his game because he wants to win. We all know that, but that's not my point. When at a grand stage and in a tight match, Federer isn't as half of a fighter as Nadal, Seles or Michael Jordan. The lack of focus/concentration seem like he's not hungry enough to want to win. Sure he won many tough matches, but his sheer talent overcomes those obstacles, not because he was a fierce fighter, or mentally stronger than his opponents. Federer talent and ability is to Nadal determine and mental strength.
Tennis is all about executing advanced technique several hundred times in a match. Serves, returns, forehands, backhands, slices, volleys, overheads. There is little "fighting" that goes into executing technique properly. Maybe Nadal's technique is so primitive because he relies mostly on running.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
LMAO! Federer laughs at ridiculous 4 year tournaments, with the stage always changing! Unlike the glorious World Tour Finals which came to their senses and have been played at the same venue for some time now! His mother Lynette had to talk him into competing in the 2012 Olympics, which took around 90 minutes, and she barely succeded! The tournament directors were contemplating giving him multiple "lack of effort" warnings throughout his matches! LOL!!:lol:
The tournament directors were too busy examining the contents of discrete little briefcases filled with bricks of Swiss francs, Krugerrands, and certain valuable pharmaceutical substances, accepted from a certain dark-haired elderly woman under dubious circumstances on the outskirts of the Olympic village grounds. Too many hungry mouths to feed in London – Houston and Shanghai can use the leftover cash to fund their public utilities infrastructure~!~:lol::lol:
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
I think Its actually a positive thing. Better That Your loses are close than easy. Fed doesnt get outplayed by anyone but Nadal.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
Not too worried. At 33 he is still #3 in both the ATP Race and the Rankings & winning more than 84% of his matches this year. He's in the SF at Toronto (where Wawrinka & Berdych lost in R16 and Murray, Ferrer and Raonic lost in the QF).

OP: btw, the word is losses, not loses.
.
 
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Mayonnaise

Banned
Not too worried. At 33 he is still #3 in both the ATP Race and the Rankings. Winning nearly 80% of his matches this year (81% at the Slams). He's in the SF at Toronto (where Wawrinka & Berdych lost in R16 and Murray, Ferrer and Raonic lost in the QF).

OP: btw, the word is losses, not loses.
He's actually 84.3% this year.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
+1.

If he was determine as Nadal who treats every point as a match point, Federer would have won more slams, more Master Series, and greater ranking.
Why is it that Fed fans think he UNDERacheived? Seriously? Sure he lost a few close matches, EVERY player does.
 

Mayonnaise

Banned
Why is it that Fed fans think he UNDERacheived? Seriously? Sure he lost a few close matches, EVERY player does.
Not all Federer fans. People think everything came easy to Federer. They don't realize how tough it is to be #3 in the world at 33. The guy works his butt off.
 

Charlemagne

Hall of Fame
Why is it that Fed fans think he UNDERacheived? Seriously? Sure he lost a few close matches, EVERY player does.
Underachieved in a relative sense... You give him the mentality of Nadal and he has 19 slams IMO... But, you give me Nadal's brain and I'd probably have a couple slams myself :wink:. I think the point some of us are making is that some of the close losses that he has had in his career, given the circumstances, should not have been losses in the end. Of course there are always going to be matches where your opponent is fired up and playing too well- 2013 Aussie semi against Murray is a good example, and to a certain extent 2008 wimby final. But overall, for as great a champion that Federer has been, he has had a number of "ones that got away" if that makes sense- more than a typical legend in any given sport. The fact that he has even accomplished this much, and we think he could have done even more, is in itself staggering and shows just how talented this man is.
 

Candide

Hall of Fame
Fed a complete clown? Well let`s look at the numbers, he has a breakpoint conversion % of 41 (the same as Sampras BTW, who supossedly is a mental giant). Nadal and Djokovic have breakpoint conversion % of 45 and 44 respectevly. Not much of a difference if you ask me, and remeber as they age those percentages are going down, the same as Fed`s numbers are going down. Furthermore, Fed has a superior percentage of brakepoints saved than both Nadal and Djoko, granted he has a better serve (in this statistic he comes behind only to Sampras and Roddick of players shorter than 1.90 m) but he is way past his prime and he still is ahead of them and the margin is going to get wider and wider. He is one of the best, if not the outright best, tiebreak player of all times. As you say, seems like Fed doesn`t handle pressure well.
Whoa, hold up there buddy. If these figures are accurate then you are breaking the first law of TT and sneakily using facts to support your argument. That's downright poor form. What's required round here is a really enormous hunch and an axe to grind based on wistful comic book fantasies of sportspeople (or "gods" as some would have them).

I guess what I'm saying is that this post should have ended the thread.
 
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