Federer's net stats in his Grand Slam finals

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by krosero, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. heathcliff

    heathcliff Rookie

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    maybe...
    it´s surely possible to attack the opponents serve while he´s coming in. to win a point is one different thing.
     
    #51
  2. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    2014 Wimbledon..........Lost to Djokovic..........5 sets..........44 of 67..........66%

    2015 Wimbledon..........Lost to Djokovic..........4 sets..........42 of 58..........72%

    2015 USO..........Lost to Djokovic..........4 sets..........39 of 59..........66%

    2017 AO..........d. Nadal..........5 sets..........29 of 40..........73%
     
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  3. -NN-

    -NN- Legend

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    When a player is winning much more than 50% of their points at net, I tend to think they haven't ventured to the net enough. If Federer could embrace all-courterer, I'd rate his chances at Wimbledon and the US Open much higher.
     
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  4. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    that's a wrong way to look at it.

    Take a look at this one for example:

    2012 Wimbledon..........d. Murray.......…….....4 sets............53 of 68............78% :::: 68 of 288............24%

    Federer approached the net 24% of the points and won 78% of the times. His 2nd highest in a wimbledon final ( after 03 final ) in terms of % of net points played out of the total # of points.
     
    #54
  5. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    Formatting the final stats from krosero slam wise , also including the % of net points per total points ( updating from my previous post-updated till Wimbledon 2017)

    Event -- win or loss --opponent---# of sets ---net approaches --net success rate -- no of net approaches per total points in match ---% of points played at net

    Wimbledon:

    2003 Wimbledon..........d. Philippoussis..........3 sets............20 of 29............69% :::: 29 of 195............15% (should be higher than this if we count approaches with unreturned serves)
    2004 Wimbledon..........d. Roddick..........…....4 sets............27 of 44............61% :::: 44 of 287............15%
    2005 Wimbledon..........d. Roddick..........……3 sets............17 of 25............68% :::: 25 of 175............14%
    2006 Wimbledon..........d. Nadal..........………4 sets............21 of 33............64% :::: 33 of 246............13%
    2007 Wimbledon..........d. Nadal..........………5 sets............30 of 51............59% :::: 51 of 323............16%
    2008 Wimbledon..........Lost to Nadal......…....5 sets............42 of 75............56%. :::: 75 of 413............18%
    2009 Wimbledon..........d. Roddick........….….5 sets............38 of 59............64% :::: 59 of 436............14%
    2012 Wimbledon..........d. Murray.......…….....4 sets............53 of 68............78% :::: 68 of 288............24%
    2014 Wimbledon..........lost to Djokovic........5 sets............44 of 67............66%::::67 of 366.............18%
    2015 Wimbledon..........lost to Djokovic........4 sets............42 of 58............72%::::58 of 286.............20%
    2017 Wimbledon.........d. Cilic.........................3 sets..............6 of 8..............75% :::::: 8 of 160 .................5%

    AO :

    2004 AO............d. Safin..........…….....3 sets............17 of 25............68% :::: 25 of 206............12%
    2006 AO............d. Baghdatis..........….4 sets............32 of 41............78% :::: 41 of 258............16%
    2007 AO............d. Gonzalez..........…...3 sets............34 of 43............79% :::: 43 of 213............20%
    2009 AO............lost to Nadal.........….5 sets............43 of 60............72% :::: 60 of 347............17%
    2010 AO............d. Murray..........……...3 sets............31 of 43............72% :::: 43 of 216............20%
    2017 AO............d. Nadal...................5 sets...........29 of 40............73% :::: 40 of 289.............14%

    USO :

    2004 USO..........……...d. Hewitt..........……..3 sets............31 of 35............89%. :::: 35 of 164............21%
    2005 USO.........……....d. Agassi..........……..4 sets............15 of 25............60% :::: 25 of 238............11%
    2006 USO..........……...d. Roddick........…......4 sets............26 of 38............68% :::: 38 of 225............17%
    2007 USO..........……...d. Djokovic..........…..3 sets............19 of 24............79% :::: 24 of 222............11%
    2008 USO..........……..d. Murray........….……3 sets............31 of 44............70% :::: 44 of 162............27%
    2009 USO..........……...lost to Del Potro........5 sets............31 of 47............66% :::: 47 of 352.............13%
    2015 USO.................lost to djokovic.........4 sets.............39 of 59...........66% :::: 59 of 292............20%

    RG :

    2006 French..........……lost to Nadal........….4 sets............30 of 41............73% :::: 41 of 230............18%
    2007 French..........……lost to Nadal..........…4 sets............21 of 34............62% :::: 34 of 255............13%
    2008 French..........……lost to Nadal........…..3 sets............18 of 42............43% :::: 42 of 144............29%
    2009 French..........……d. Soderling.........…...3 sets............9 of 11............82% :::: 11 of 170............6%
    2011 French..........……lost to Nadal........…..4 sets............30 of 41............73% :::: 41 of 273............15%
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    #55
  6. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    tennisabstract has Federer approaching the net 41 times, this includes 37 S&V attempts.

    http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20030706-M-Wimbledon-F-Roger_Federer-Mark_Philippousis.html

    That seems more correct to my recollection.
     
    #56
  7. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    that still seems a bit low to me -- only ~21% of the points (41/195) at the net ? ( it was 24% in wim 12 final - I'd expect 03 final to be higher )

    Edit : but then maybe not, considering federer had 21 aces in the 03 final.

    a more accurate way would be to subtract the aces, service winners and DF points and then measure the % of net points per # of points ..
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
    #57
  8. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Hard to say. We know Federer S&V'd just under 50% of the time in 2003, though to my recollection that dropped off a bit towards the tail end of the slam.
     
    #58
  9. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    just remembered this ...

    slice serve ace has federer at 54 S&V attempts in the match, 48 on 1st serve and 6 times on 2nd serve.

    https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...h-wimby-2003-final-stats.400104/#post-6054896

    so federer went to the net atleast on 54 points ( making % of net points atleast 54/195 = 27.7% )
     
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  10. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    Updated till Wimbledon 2017:

    Federer's stats in grand slam semis :

    Wimbledon

    2003 Wimbledon - d Roddick - 3 sets - 29 of 39 (74%) .... % of points at the net - 39 of 183 (21%) (should be higher than this if we count approaches with unreturned serves)

    by my count
    2003 Wimbledon d Roddick - 3 sets - 37/48 (77.1%) ....% of points at the net - 48/183 (26.2%)

    2004 Wimbledon - d Grosjean - 3 sets - 28 of 37 (76%) .... % of points at the net - 37 of 197 (19%)
    2005 Wimbledon - d Hewitt - 3 sets - 14 of 22 (64%) .... % of points at the net - 22 of 196 (11%)
    2006 Wimbledon - d Bjorkman - 3 sets - 13 of 19 (68%) .... % of points at the net - 19 of 123 (15%)
    2007 Wimbledon - d Gasquet - 3 sets - 13 of 23 (57%) .... % of points at the net - 23 of 179 (13%)
    2008 Wimbledon - d Safin - 3 sets - 04 of 11 (36%) .... % of points at the net - 11 of 183 (6%)
    2009 Wimbledon - d Haas - 3 sets - 38 of 43 (88%) .... % of points at the net - 43 of 193 (23%)
    2012 Wimbledon - d Djokovic - 4 sets - 13 of 25 (52%) .... % of points at the net - 25 of 216 (12%)
    2014 Wimbledon - d Raonic - 3 sets - 24 of 32 (75%) .... % of points at the net - 32 of 164 (20%)
    2015 Wimbledon - d Murray - 3 sets - 29 of 42 (69%) ....% of points at the net - 42 of 198 (21%)
    2016 Wimbledon - Lost to Raonic - 5 sets - 25 of 37 (68%) ....% of points at the net - 37 of 327 (11%)
    2017 Wimbledon - d Berdych - 3 sets - 23 of 31 (74%) .....% of points at the net - 31 of 233 (13.3%)

    AO :

    2004 AO - d Ferrero - 3 sets - 16 of 21 (76%) .... % of points at the net - 21 of 154 (14%)
    2005 AO - Lost to Safin - 5 sets - 52 of 68 (76%) .... % of points at the net - 68 of 395 (17%)
    2006 AO - d Kiefer - 4 sets - 19 of 24 (79%) .... % of points at the net - 24 of 228 (11%)
    2007 AO - d Roddick - 3 sets - 10 of 11 (91%) .... % of points at the net - 11 of 128 (9%) (roddick was 9 of 31(29%) at the net)
    2008 AO - Lost to Djokovic - 3 sets - 22 of 31 (71%) .... % of points at the net - 31 of 222 (14%)
    2009 AO - d Roddick - 3 sets - 17 of 27 (63%) .... % of points at the net - 27 of 190 (14%)
    2010 AO - d Tsonga - 3 sets - 22 of 30 (73%) .... % of points at the net - 30 of 139 (22%)
    2011 AO - Lost to Djokovic - 3 sets - 17 of 26 (65%) .... % of points at the net - 26 of 230 (11%)
    2012 AO - Lost to Nadal - 4 sets - 35 of 57 (61%) .... % of points at the net - 57 of 276 (21%)
    2013 AO - Lost to Murray - 5 sets - 29 of 44 (66%) .... % of points at the net - 44 of 328 (13%)
    2014 AO - Lost to Nadal - 3 sets - 23 of 42 (55%) .... % of points at the net - 42 of 191 (22%)
    2016 AO - Lost to Djokovic - 4 sets - 22 of 38 (58 %) ....% of points at the net - 38 of 197 (19%)
    2017 AO - d Wawrinka - 5 sets - 34 of 50 (68%) ....% of points at the net - 50 of 278 (18%)


    USO :

    2004 USO - d Henman - 3 sets - 11 of 20 (55%) .... % of points at the net - 20 of 158 (13%)
    2005 USO - d Hewitt - 4 sets - 34 of 49 (69%) .... % of points at the net - 49 of 290 (17%)
    2006 USO - d Davydenko - 3 sets - 13 of 20 (65%) .... % of points at the net - 20 of 166 (12%)
    2007 USO - d Davydenko - 3 sets - 20 of 30 (67%) .... % of points at the net - 30 of 210 (14%)
    2008 USO - d Djokovic - 4 sets - 18 of 30 (60%) .... % of points at the net - 30 of 249 (12%)
    2009 USO - d Djokovic - 3 sets - 29 of 36 (81%) .... % of points at the net - 36 of 224 (16%)
    2010 USO - Lost to Djokovic - 5 sets - 40 of 55 (73%) .... % of points at the net - 55 of 311 (18%)
    2011 USO - Lost to Djokovic - 5 sets - 18 of 27 (67%) .... % of points at the net - 27 of 304 (9%)
    2014 USO - Lost to Cilic - 3 sets - 11 of 23 (48%) .... % of points at the net - 23 of 165 (14%)
    2015 USO - d Wawrinka - 3 sets - 22 of 28 (79%) .... % of points at the net - 28 of 155 (18%)

    RG :

    2005 RG - Lost to Nadal - 4 sets - 36 of 59 (61%) .... % of points at the net - 59 of 239 (25%)
    2006 RG - d Nalbandian - 3 sets - 14 of 19 (74%) .... % of points at the net - 19 of 146 (13%)
    2007 RG - d Davydenko - 3 sets - 14 of 26 (54%) .... % of points at the net - 26 of 278 (9%)
    2008 RG - d Monfils - 4 sets - 49 of 64 (77%) .... % of points at the net - 64 of 286 (24%)
    2009 RG - d Del potro - 5 sets - 24 of 33 (73%) .... % of points at the net - 33 of 310 (11%)
    2011 RG - d Djokovic - 4 sets - 15 of 19 (79%) .... % of points at the net - 19 of 309 (6%)
    2012 RG - Lost to Djokovic - 3 sets - 12 of 16 (75%) .... % of points at the net - 16 of 177 (9%)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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  11. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Today:
    2017 Wimbledon ........ defeated Cilic ........ 3 sets ....... 6 of 8 ........ 5.0%

    Just a miniscule number of approaches, only on 5% of the 160 points played in the match. Total non-factor today.

    It's his lowest rate of approaching the net in all his GS finals. Previous had been 2009 RG against Soderling when he made 11 approaches in the 170 points played or 6.5%.

    Incidentally his first-serve percentage was his highest in any of his 29 Slam finals, making 53 of 70 first serves or 76.0%. That tops his previous high of 75.7%, against Agassi at 2005 USO, and 71% against Nadal at 2007 Wimb (these are the only times he's been over 70).
     
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  12. Waspsting

    Waspsting Professional

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    Its possible if Federer's passing shots are significantly better than Nadal's. To get an idea of who is the better volleyer, perhaps its better to look at overall net numbers for both guys against everybody (and adjusting for Federer approaching more, as you said) rather than how they stack up in matches against one another

    I don't think Nadal volleys better than Federer btw, but throwing this out as a possibility.

    They're both very good on the pass, but Federer's numbers are likely to be bolstered by the times he baits opponents to net with a short slice. In that scenario, he's mentally ready to make the passing shot and has probably played the slice with an eye out for where at net he wants the opponent

    This is categorically different to having to pass someone who has proactively taken the net

    10, I think - joint record with Boris Becker and Roger Federer

    Obviously Krickstein played a lot less than those guys, but he may well have been down 0-2 more often... any way you slice it, special stuff there from Krickstein
     
    #62
  13. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    Adding the matches , that I have, along with the sources :

    AO 2017 final:

    Federer 29/40 at the net (72.5%) .....at the net in 13.84% of points
    Nadal 10/12 at the net (83.3%) .....at the net in 4.15% of points
    Total points in match = 289

    http://2017.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/stats/1701ms.html

    IW 2017 4R:

    Federer 4/7 at the net (57.14%) ....at the net in 7.07% of points
    Nadal 1/1 at the net (100%) ....at the net in 1.01% of points
    Total points in match = 99 ....

    http://imageshack.com/a/img924/1214/RyzJVE.jpg
    https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...s-5-rafael-nadal.585375/page-26#post-11063322

    Miami 2017 final:

    Federer 12/17 at the net (70.59%) .... at the net in 13.39% of points
    Nadal 6/8 at the net (75%) ....at the net in 6.3% of the points
    Total points in match = 127

    http://i.imgur.com/d0ZmtDE.jpg
    https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...s-5-rafael-nadal.586688/page-27#post-11104735

    AO 2014 SF:

    Federer 23/42 at the net (54.76%) .... at the net in 22% of points
    Nadal 3/10 at the net (30%) .... at the net in 5.24% of points
    Total points in match = 191


    https://web.archive.org/web/2014012...n.com:80/en_AU/scores/stats/day17/1601ms.html



    2013 YEC SF :

    Federer 5/11 at the net (45.45%)....at the net in 9.57% of the points
    Nadal 4/4 at the net (100%) ....at the net in 3.48% of the points
    Total points in match = 115

    http://tinypic.com/r/2hxn3ep/9



    at 1:36:29


    Basel 2015 final:

    Federer 23/34 at the net (67.65%) .... at the net in 18.89% of the points
    Nadal 6/10 at the net (60%) .... at the net in 5.56% of the points
    Total points in match = 180

    http://i.imgur.com/xTRqaOe.jpg
    https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...arera-basel-final.547574/page-26#post-9768659

    2006 YEC SF for Nadal :

    I have Nadal at 4/6 at the net (66.67%) ...at the net in 4.29% of points
    Total points in match = 140 points

    https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...r-nadal-tennis-masters-cup-2006-semis.294238/

    I think the discrepancy in net points for federer comes from the SnV points with serve unreturned.

    Hamburg 2007 final -- at the end, they did not display the net stats as part of the stats
    YEC 2006 SF -- same as above.
    Monte Carlo 2006 final -- same as above.
     
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  14. Dolgopolov85

    Dolgopolov85 Hall of Fame

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    Nadal's forehand usually takes care of the short slice though. If you recall the W 2007 final where Fed tried to slice and dice him, Nadal just started using the time to set up a nice forehand winner to whack down the line. Additionally, I think against proactive approaches, Nadal has the better passing shot of the two because his backhand pass is much more solid and usually those who approach don't take on his backhand and instead try to pull him wide on the forehand. So maybe what the numbers are telling us is Nadal is not as comfortable making tough volleys as Federer (accounting for his lower success rate at net against Fed), which Federer is able to make even against Nadal (hence the higher number of approaches as well as higher success rate).
     
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  15. Sport

    Sport Professional

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    Nadal vs. Anderson. 16/16 approaches at the net. 100% accuracy.
     
    #65
  16. KINGROGER

    KINGROGER Legend

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    Nadal best volleyer in the game?
     
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  17. Sport

    Sport Professional

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    Goffin.
     
    #67
  18. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    Adding some other matches :

    2014 Wimbledon final :

    Federer 44/67 at the net (65.67%) ...at the net in 18.36% of the points
    Djokovic 26/35 at the net (74.29%) ...at the net in 9.59% of the points
    Total points in match = 365

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/tenni...-for-djokovic-v-federer-idUKL6N0PH15520140706

    2015 Wimbledon final :

    Federer 42/58 at the net (72.4%) ...at the net in 20.28% of the points
    Djokovic 20/34 at the net (58.82%) ...at the net in 11.89% of the points
    Total points in match = 286

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/tenn...ic-v-federer-statistics-idUKL4N0ZS0AQ20150712

    2015 USO final:

    Federer 39/59 at the net (66.1%)....at the net in 20.2% of the points
    Djokovic 21/32 at the net (65.63%) ....at the net in 10.96% of the points
    Total points in match = 292

    https://web.archive.org/web/2015091...n.org:80/en_US/scores/stats/day20/1701ms.html

    2016 AO semi:

    Federer 22/38 at the net (57.89%) ....at the net in 19.29% of the points
    Djokovic 6/10 at the net (60%) ....at the net in 5.08% of the points
    Total points in match = 197

    https://web.archive.org/web/2016030...n.com:80/en_AU/scores/stats/day16/1601ms.html

    2015 cincy final:

    Federer 21/29 at the net (72.41%) ...at the net in 20.71% of the points
    Djokovic 2/6 at the net (33.33%) ...at the net in 4.29% of the points
    Total points in match = 140

    https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-1-vs-r-federer-2.541774/page-18#post-9573711


    2014 shanghai semi:

    Federer 20/35 at the net (57.14%)...at the net in 23.49% of the points

    Total points in match = 149


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...s-winning-streak-at-the-Shanghai-Masters.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
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  19. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    wow I need to rewatch the AO final v Gonzalez
     
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  20. Bender

    Bender Legend

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    weak era
    GOAT, 'nuff said
    NO EXCUSES
     
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  21. Dolgopolov85

    Dolgopolov85 Hall of Fame

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    He was on fire in that match, coming in on pressure points and making outrageous volleys. Took advantage of Gonzalez's slice backhand to make sneak approaches.
     
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