Federer's racquet Depolarized?

They've started painting/inking them brown, apparently painting the power pads brown makes them better/last longer. Not sure but Nate Ferguson and P1 have started doing it.
 
stormholloway said:
There's no evidence whatsoever to support this, yet BreakPoint touts it as absolute fact. For a guy who claims not to care what racquet Federer uses, you sure put a lot of time in studying that very subject.

How could you possibly know that Federer has been using the K90 for four years or that he's currently using it at all?
Click to expand...

Because Wilson clearly said the k90 is what fed is really using, as opposed to other sticks in which they say the choice of #3 novak Djokovic which is still a kblade tour, but not the retail version, probably a prototype. That was not the case with Fed, by the wording wilson used to say that:p hope this helps clarify what BP said.
 
nalk7 said:
Because Wilson clearly said the k90 is what fed is really using, as opposed to other sticks in which they say the choice of #3 novak Djokovic which is still a kblade tour, but not the retail version, probably a prototype. That was not the case with Fed, by the wording wilson used to say that:p hope this helps clarify what BP said.
Click to expand...

Then I guess that settles it! Wilson says that Fed uses the retail frame, and there shouldn't be anymore doubts about this! :oops:
 
AlpineCadet said:
Then I guess that settles it! Wilson says that Fed uses the retail frame, and there shouldn't be anymore doubts about this! :oops:
Click to expand...
Exactly!!! The only time in history any racquet company has ever said that about one of their sponsored pros (suspected of using a paintjob)!!

That's why no racquet company has ever made the same claim about Safin, Hewitt, Djokovic, Haas, Blake, Fish, Henman, Gonzales, Robredo, Ferrer, Nalbandian, Berdych, Davydenko, Tsonga, Mathieu, Canas, Kiefer, Monfils, Lopez, etc. - you name it. Nope, Federer and his retail K90 is the only one in which the racquet company has publicly stated the pro uses the retail version of the racquet.

BTW, instead of wasting all this time claiming what other pros do, why don't you tell us exactly what about the retail K90 that makes it unplayable for Federer? What, it's too damanding for him and he's not quite good enough to use it? :roll:
 
BreakPoint said:
Exactly!!! The only time in history any racquet company has ever said that about one of their sponsored pros (suspected of using a paintjob)!!

That's why no racquet company has ever made the same claim about Safin, Hewitt, Djokovic, Haas, Blake, Fish, Henman, Gonzales, Robredo, Ferrer, Nalbandian, Berdych, Davydenko, Tsonga, Mathieu, Canas, Kiefer, Monfils, Lopez, etc. - you name it. Nope, Federer and his retail K90 is the only one in which the racquet company has publicly stated the pro uses the retail version of the racquet.

BTW, instead of wasting all this time claiming what other pros do, why don't you tell us exactly what about the retail K90 that makes it unplayable for Federer? What, it's too damanding for him and he's not quite good enough to use it? :roll:
Click to expand...

Are you asking for my personal opinion, or do you want to start an argument over counter beliefs? You can take Wilson's word for it, but there isn't any further proof beyond what's been printed.
 
AlpineCadet said:
Are you asking for my personal opinion, or do you want to start an argument over counter beliefs? You can take Wilson's word for it, but there isn't any further proof beyond what's been printed.
Click to expand...
You can also take NASA's word that man has stepped on the moon even though you have no proof other than what others have said, right?
 
BreakPoint said:
You can also take NASA's word that man has stepped on the moon even though you have no proof other than what others have said, right?
Click to expand...
Are you comparing NASA's achievements to Wilson's marketing department? BTW, why are you always using absurd analogies to try to prove your opinions?
 
AlpineCadet said:
Are you comparing NASA's achievements to Wilson's marketing department? BTW, why are you always using absurd analogies to try to prove your opinions?
Click to expand...
Huh? I guess you're just not bright enough to "get" my analogies. :(

What does "achievement" have to do with it? :confused:

I'm comparing press releases from organizations without the so-called "proof" that you apparently require before you'll believe anything.

BTW, the sun dosen't really exist either since you've never been there, and thus, have no "proof" that it's actually there.
 
BreakPoint said:
Huh? I guess you're just not bright enough to "get" my analogies. :(

What does "achievement" have to do with it? :confused:

I'm comparing press releases from organizations without the so-called "proof" that you apparently require before you'll believe anything.

BTW, the sun dosen't really exist either since you've never been there, and thus, have no "proof" that it's actually there.
Click to expand...

Is that even worth my time? With +17k posts, you're definitely the G.O.A.T. of something.
 
AlpineCadet said:
Is that even worth my time? With +17k posts, you're definitely the G.O.A.T. of something.
Click to expand...
There's not enough time in your lifetime for you to figure it out. :(

It's sad that you spend so much time trying to "prove" that everything in this world actually exists. :(
 
BreakPoint said:
There's not enough time in your lifetime for you to figure it out. :(

It's sad that you spend so much time trying to "prove" that everything in this world actually exists. :(
Click to expand...

Actually, what's sad is that you believe your opinions to be factual, enough to harp on everyone ad-nauseum. What would you then do if you realized that your TW life of spouting baseless junk was all that summarized your +17k posts?

Breakpoint, indeed.
 
AlpineCadet said:
Are you asking for my personal opinion, or do you want to start an argument over counter beliefs? You can take Wilson's word for it, but there isn't any further proof beyond what's been printed.
Click to expand...
Well, we all know how much your "personal opinion" is worth, don't we? You've been espousing your personal opinion here ad nauseam for a long time that you think Federer has actually been using a "90 sq. in. racquet with the same composite as the PS 6.0 85" for years, and not a retail K90, and ever since he switched from the PS 6.0 85.

So let me ask you this - if this is true, why is Wilson only NOW trying to develop a 90 sq. in. racquet with the same composite as the PS 6.0 85 for Sampras? According to you, they've already had this racquet for many years. You don't have an answer, do you?

You see, what's even more important than opinion is logic. Perhaps you haven't learned about logic yet in your young life? Well, let me tell you that it comes in pretty handy. You should try using it sometime.
 
It's not that your argument doesn't make sense. It's just that you're declaring without-a-doubt something with no physical evidence.
 
stormholloway said:
It's not that your argument doesn't make sense. It's just that you're declaring without-a-doubt something with no physical evidence.
Click to expand...
There's also no physical evidence that Federer would beat me in a tennis match, but logic would dictate that he would, right? I mean even without physical evidence, the probability of Federer winning is 100%, don't you think?
 
BreakPoint said:
why is Wilson only NOW trying to develop a 90 sq. in. racquet with the same composite as the PS 6.0 85 for Sampras?
Click to expand...

That is only speculation. You are stating it as if it is fact. All we know is that Sampras was playing with a prototype 90 sq inch racquet. We don't know its composition or whether it is just an old model reintroduced with hype.
 
sureshs said:
That is only speculation. You are stating it as if it is fact. All we know is that Sampras was playing with a prototype 90 sq inch racquet. We don't know its composition or whether it is just an old model reintroduced with hype.
Click to expand...
Why would Wilson bother to make another 90 sq. in. racquet unless it was to make a "PS 6.0 90" that is as close to the PS 6.0 85 as possible? You know, the racquet that Sampras used for all of his career and most of his junior years and why Sampras is the one testing the prototypes? They even copied the throat shape. Why would they not also copy the composition in their effort to make it play and feel as close to the PS 6.0 85 as possible? And if a "PS 6.0 90" was not their goal, then why did they use the same throat shape and why wouldn't Sampras just continue to use the K90? And as many people here claim, Mids are dead so why is Wilson putting out a 3rd Mid in their line-up when most other manufacturers barely even have one?

Yes, logic is your friend. Use it or lose it.
 
BreakPoint said:
Why would Wilson bother to make another 90 sq. in. racquet unless it was to make a "PS 6.0 90" that is as close to the PS 6.0 85 as possible? You know, the racquet that Sampras used for all of his career and most of his junior years and why Sampras is the one testing the prototypes? They even copied the throat shape. Why would they not also copy the composition in their effort to make it play and feel as close to the PS 6.0 85 as possible? And if a "PS 6.0 90" was not their goal, then why did they use the same throat shape and why wouldn't Sampras just continue to use the K90? And as many people here claim, Mids are dead so why is Wilson putting out a 3rd Mid in their line-up when most other manufacturers barely even have one?

Yes, logic is your friend. Use it or lose it.
Click to expand...

What else could they have done? Make a K90 with the real material that Fed uses and claim once again that now we can buy the Fed racquet? The only way they can come out with a 90 sq in using Fed's real composition is to make a different racquet. Since so few pros use a 90, and that too a Wilson, Sampras is the choice.

Actually, the fact that their racquet could be a PS90 shows that Pete would not accept the stock K90 as he can tell that the composition is not what Fed uses. Wilson could get him the real Fed racquet, but why not make a new model with the old composition to get some additional sales going?
 
BreakPoint said:
You've been espousing your personal opinion here ad nauseam for a long time that you think Federer has actually been using a "90 sq. in. racquet with the same composite as the PS 6.0 85" for years, and not a retail K90, and ever since he switched from the PS 6.0 85.
Click to expand...

Please don't lie or twist my words. That statement is 100% false.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1869302&postcount=99

stormholloway said:
It's not that your argument doesn't make sense. It's just that you're declaring without-a-doubt something with no physical evidence.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what it boils down to, yet he still wants to bulk up on these ridiculous analogies in an attempt to sway our opinions. He shouldn't need our approval to feel good about himself/opinions, yet it apparently seems he does. :oops:
 
sureshs said:
What else could they have done? Make a K90 with the real material that Fed uses and claim once again that now we can buy the Fed racquet? The only way they can come out with a 90 sq in using Fed's real composition is to make a different racquet. Since so few pros use a 90, and that too a Wilson, Sampras is the choice.

Actually, the fact that their racquet could be a PS90 shows that Pete would not accept the stock K90 as he can tell that the composition is not what Fed uses. Wilson could get him the real Fed racquet, but why not make a new model with the old composition to get some additional sales going?
Click to expand...
Huh? That makes no sense at all.

Why do they need to come out with another 90 sq. in. racquet at all? I don't think they really want to add another SKU when 90's don't sell as well as bigger racquets do. It's already been documented that Sampras was already using the same racquet as Federer, as evidenced by the 4 crosses at the PWS and the short handle pallet on his nCode 90 paintjobs. And Sampras specifically stated that he's using the same exact racquet as Federer and that's what Wilson sent him.

Thus, the only reason Wilson is making this new racquet for Sampras is that Sampras wanted something different than the retail K90 that he and Federer are using. Sampras wanted something even closer to his old PS 6.0 85 and requested Wilson to make a "PS 6.0 90". Federer designed and is using the retail K90. Sampras is designing and will be using the retail "PS 6.0 90". If they were already one and the same, there would be no reason for Wilson to waste all of this time and money to make it. Just give Sampras some of Federer's racquets, which they already have. That racquet happens to be the retail K90, and you're right, Sampras prefers something other than the retail K90 so that's why Wilson is now making this new "PS 6.0 90" for him (and also for all the people that have been clamoring for a true "PS 6.0 90" for years).

The bottom line is if Federer was not using a retail K90, Wilson would just release his real racquet as the next version of the Tour 90 with a different paintjob and have Federer switch to the new paintjob, instead of making a new racquet from scratch.

End of story.
 
stormholloway said:
It's not that your argument doesn't make sense. It's just that you're declaring without-a-doubt something with no physical evidence.
Click to expand...

That is exactly the point. If pros used stock frames (that they claim to use) most of the time with a little customization, we would all agree with BP that Fed uses the K90. But we know for a fact that the N90 was not Fed's racquet, and that many top pros don't use the frames that the manufacturer claims in the ads. Based on the single fact that Wilson said this time it is Fed's actual frame, BP claims the K90 is his frame. Now Fed comes out and says that he has been using his current stick since 2002. It is unlikely Wilson was using SiO2 bonded with carbon in 2002. Then BP turns around and says Wilson must be lying - this Karophite thing is not new at all and may not even be what Wilson says it is - it is just a marketing name. In this case, we are supposed to disbelieve Wilson, and also in the N90 case, but we must believe Wilson about the K90. It just does not all make sense together as a package.
 
AlpineCadet said:
Please don't lie or twist my words. That statement is 100% false.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1869302&postcount=99
Click to expand...
Here are YOUR very OWN words:

AlpineCadet said:
Roger Federer uses a ProStaff Tour 90 mold with a ProStaff 6.0 85 composite. That in fact, is my opinion. If you want to warp my words around, or try to convice others (TW members and non-members) otherwise, then so be it. Knock yourself out. Have fun trying to force-feed/manipulate your opinions upon others.
Click to expand...

AlpineCadet said:
Why isn't Federer capable of doing the same thing with a retail K90? Because he's actually using the PS 6.0 85 composite with a larger racket head, so it'd be impossible with the retail k90. ;) Silly.
Click to expand...

AlpineCadet said:
Some people would say he is 'NOT using the retail k90 as the base' for his frames, while suggesting that he actually uses the PS 6.0 85 composite (which is known to have incredible ball feel because of the 17mm beam thickness) for his frames instead.
Click to expand...

AlpineCadet said:
So are you trying to tell me that Federer prefers to use the retail k90 with the older Wilson Buttcap? He's def. using a paintjob of the k90, but the racket underneath has been the same since 2002. If I were the number one in the world, I would ask for the ps85 composite put into the tour 90 mold. ;)
Click to expand...

AlpineCadet said:
If anyone would know about that racket, I'm sure the best person to ask would be Roger Federer himself. Again, would Federer rather use a retail k90 or a composite of the ProStaff 6.0 85 original in the Tour 90 mold? :confused:
Click to expand...

AlpineCadet said:
Honestly though, would Roger Federer rather use a ProStaff 85 composite in the Tour 90 mold, or would he rather use the retail k90? Thank you.
Click to expand...
 
sureshs said:
That is exactly the point. If pros used stock frames (that they claim to use) most of the time with a little customization, we would all agree with BP that Fed uses the K90. But we know for a fact that the N90 was not Fed's racquet, and that many top pros don't use the frames that the manufacturer claims in the ads. Based on the single fact that Wilson said this time it is Fed's actual frame, BP claims the K90 is his frame. Now Fed comes out and says that he has been using his current stick since 2002. It is unlikely Wilson was using SiO2 bonded with carbon in 2002. Then BP turns around and says Wilson must be lying - this Karophite thing is not new at all and may not even be what Wilson says it is - it is just a marketing name. In this case, we are supposed to disbelieve Wilson, and also in the N90 case, but we must believe Wilson about the K90. It just does not all make sense together as a package.
Click to expand...
Federer never designed the nCode 90, Wilson designed it to what they think the public would want - more stiffness and power from the addition of the HyperCarbon.

Federer DID design the K90 for his own use. He doesn't want the HyperCarbon. Therefore, it was left out of the retail K90.

What is it about the retail K90 that makes it impossible for Federer to use? No one here has been able to answer that one simple question.
 
BreakPoint said:
Here are YOUR very OWN words:
Click to expand...
Haha, nice try with all my quotes, but you still can't twist this around, can you? :oops::shock::confused:

Those are my opinions, and unlike you, I don't claim them to be facts.

I may also claim that the moon is made of cheese, but does that mean it is actually true?
 
AlpineCadet said:
Haha, nice try with all my quotes, but you still can't twist this around, can you? :oops::shock::confused:

Those are my opinions, and unlike you, I don't claim them to be facts.

I may also claim that the moon is made of cheese, but does that mean it is actually true?
Click to expand...

Exactly!!! And I've already reminded you how much your opinions are worth:

BreakPoint said:
Well, we all know how much your "personal opinion" is worth, don't we? You've been espousing your personal opinion here ad nauseam for a long time that you think Federer has actually been using a "90 sq. in. racquet with the same composite as the PS 6.0 85" for years, and not a retail K90, and ever since he switched from the PS 6.0 85.

So let me ask you this - if this is true, why is Wilson only NOW trying to develop a 90 sq. in. racquet with the same composite as the PS 6.0 85 for Sampras? According to you, they've already had this racquet for many years. You don't have an answer, do you?

You see, what's even more important than opinion is logic. Perhaps you haven't learned about logic yet in your young life? Well, let me tell you that it comes in pretty handy. You should try using it sometime.
Click to expand...
 
BreakPoint said:
He doesn't want the HyperCarbon. Therefore, it was left out of the retail K90.
Click to expand...

The "therefore" makes sense only if the premise is correct!

How on earth does anybody know that Federer "doesn't want the Hypercarbon?" Does he even know what is Hypercarbon? Does he even recall the term?
 
sureshs said:
The "therefore" makes sense only if the premise is correct!

How on earth does anybody know that Federer "doesn't want the Hypercarbon?" Does he even know what is Hypercarbon? Does he even recall the term?
Click to expand...
Federer has never mentioned HyperCarbon because it has never been in any of his racquets!

HyperCarbon completely changes the feel and stiffness of a racquet. The PS 6.0 85 didn't have it and the K90 doesn't have it. That's why they feel so similar and have similar flexibility.
 
BreakPoint said:
Exactly!!! And I've already reminded you how much your opinions are worth:
Click to expand...
:roll: And like I've said before:
AlpineCadet said:
Are you asking for my personal opinion, or do you want to start an argument over counter beliefs? You can take Wilson's word for it, but there isn't any further proof beyond what's been printed.
Click to expand...
If you were actually being honest with us, you would admit that you apparently don't have a lot of supporters for your "logic." Certainly not in this thread, nor in the last thread that was deleted, nor in the rest. BTW, why is your post count so high? Is it because you have such great "logic" that no one understands it the first time? Is it because you constantly have to try to con people with the use of your fallacies, digressions, and twisted analogies?
 
AlpineCadet said:
If you were actually being honest with us, you would admit that you apparently don't have a lot of supporters for your "logic." Certainly not in this thread, nor in the last thread that was deleted, nor in the rest. BTW, why is your post count so high? Is it because you have such great "logic" that no one understands it the first time? Is it because you constantly have to try to con people with the use of your fallacies, digressions, and twisted analogies?
Click to expand...
It's because at the higher intelligence levels, people with lower intelligence have a hard time comprehending it. It's like how Federer is a "genius" on the tennis court, that's why so few lesser talented players are able to perform the same "genius" that Federer does.

It was the same with Einstein. Can YOU comprehend or explain Einstein's Theory of Relativity?

Some (or maybe lots of) things are just way over your head. :(
 
sureshs said:
That is exactly the point. If pros used stock frames (that they claim to use) most of the time with a little customization, we would all agree with BP that Fed uses the K90. But we know for a fact that the N90 was not Fed's racquet, and that many top pros don't use the frames that the manufacturer claims in the ads. Based on the single fact that Wilson said this time it is Fed's actual frame, BP claims the K90 is his frame. Now Fed comes out and says that he has been using his current stick since 2002. It is unlikely Wilson was using SiO2 bonded with carbon in 2002. Then BP turns around and says Wilson must be lying - this Karophite thing is not new at all and may not even be what Wilson says it is - it is just a marketing name. In this case, we are supposed to disbelieve Wilson, and also in the N90 case, but we must believe Wilson about the K90. It just does not all make sense together as a package.
Click to expand...

makes perfect sense, but remember, you are not dealing with a "normal" person here.
 
BreakPoint said:
It's because at the higher intelligence levels, people with lower intelligence have a hard time comprehending it. It's like how Federer is a "genius" on the tennis court, that's why so few lesser talented players are able to perform the same "genius" that Federer does.

It was the same with Einstein. Can YOU comprehend or explain Einstein's Theory of Relativity?

Some (or maybe lots of) things are just way over your head. :(
Click to expand...

It should really be called a law, because it has been verified so many times.

There are also two theories of relativity, special and general.
 
Richie Rich said:
makes perfect sense, but remember, you are not dealing with a "normal" person here.
Click to expand...
Wilson NEVER claimed that Federer used the retail version of the nCode 90, so therefore, it's not even an apples-to-apples comparison.

BTW, if someone in your town committed a murder, the next time a murder is committed in your town do you automatically convict this same person without bothering to look at the evidence? Isn't the new murder a completely separate case that has to be judged by the merits of its own evidence?
 
Post now in another thread. If the composition of Sampras' racquet is different from the Fed K90, why would he call it Fed's racquet? Yet another indication that Fed does not use the layup of the K90.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


eliasf
New User


Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1 boston champions cup shots of sampras

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I went to see round two of the boston champions cup and got footage of pete playing arias and johny mac playing courier.

I arrived early enough to see mcenroe warming up with some college player. then Pete came out to warm up with Arias. I literally courtside. as close as i could get. Before taking their sides, I overheard Arias ask Pete about "what he was playing with". Pete said something about the weighting in the head that i missed, but then said "yeah it's the fed racket". This was pretty cool to overhear.

I got some pictures and some super-slow-motion video with my new casio ex-f1 at 300 and 600 fps. I'll post the link below to one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fHO7dnt2eY
 
sureshs said:
Post now in another thread. If the composition of Sampras' racquet is different from the Fed K90, why would he call it Fed's racquet? Yet another indication that Fed does not use the layup of the K90.
Click to expand...
Maybe Sampras was referring to the nCode 90 paintjob he was using before? Maybe he was just trying not to get into it with Arias since this was still supposed to be a secret prototype that's still under development? I'm sure Wilson has told Sampras not to talk about this new racquet.

In any event, it's OBVIOUS that it's not "Fed's racquet" as the throat shape is completely different!

This proves NOTHING about the layup of Fed's K90!
 
BreakPoint said:
Wilson NEVER claimed that Federer used the retail version of the nCode 90, so therefore, it's not even an apples-to-apples comparison.

BTW, if someone in your town committed a murder, the next time a murder is committed in your town do you automatically convict this same person without bothering to look at the evidence? Isn't the new murder a completely separate case that has to be judged by the merits of its own evidence?
Click to expand...

sure, whatever you say. fine by me.
 
BreakPoint said:
Maybe Sampras was referring to the nCode 90 paintjob he was using before? Maybe he was just trying not to get into it with Arias since this was still supposed to be a secret prototype that's still under development? I'm sure Wilson has told Sampras not to talk about this new racquet.

In any event, it's OBVIOUS that it's not "Fed's racquet" as the throat shape is completely different!

This proves NOTHING about the layup of Fed's K90!
Click to expand...

To me, it hints that Arias and Sampras both know Fed is not using a K90. What Sampras is using may be more closer in feel to Fed's stick and that is what he is referring to.
 
Man is it really so hard to believe Fed is really using a k90? BP I really think we should close down this discussion about what fed is actually using, it's pretty obvious to see these guys don't have the ability to comprehend what is so obvious. I'm glad there's still some people in these boards that use their brains, thank you for trying to educate others.
 
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