federers serve.... todd martins serve

i was randomly lookin at some older dvds and tapes from like 8 years ago of some matches the other day .. and in comes ole todd martin swinging.. his serve looks really nice and losse and relaxed.. he gets a lot of action on it.. i think it in many ways has a resemblance to feds.. am i right ?
 
federers serve is a copy of sampras' serve but since no copy can be as good as original his serve is very good but not as amazing as sampras'
u can find it at youtube (someone was comparing feds and sampras' serve)
 
Federers serve is nothing like Sampras serve, wow...
 
Federers serve is nothing like Sampras serve, wow...

wow one more tennis expert here
thats because you look at where he points with his racket before serve instead of looking at serve motion
sampras would put racket up and fed down and sampras would point with his left trainers up and federer wouldnt and since people like you just look at that and not at serve motion because of tennis knowledge then we get such a comment
http://youtube.com/watch?v=npxP6Jej9iE
only difference is sampras is rotating his back more than federer
 
i was randomly lookin at some older dvds and tapes from like 8 years ago of some matches the other day .. and in comes ole todd martin swinging.. his serve looks really nice and losse and relaxed.. he gets a lot of action on it.. i think it in many ways has a resemblance to feds.. am i right ?

Todd Martin never seemed to utilise his height to make the serve a real weapon.

Federer's first serve is usually superb. He gets great spin and disguise, using all of the elements of the 1990s guys - which for instance when Federer serves down the middle for an ace or unreturnable in the deuce court, he tosses the ball above his head or slightly to the left, so he can come over it with topspin to go with the pace; in the region of 115 to 135mph depending on how hard he chooses to hit it - a deadlier combination than a flat serve down the centre with a ball toss slightly to the right. As Frew McMillan said once when observing Becker's serve, throwing the racquet left to right to get the heaviness - remember Henman always talked about Sampras' heavy serve.

On the ad court, Federer doesn't serve down the centre as well as Sampras - Federer stands slightly further away from the centre line, so he has to compensate with a bit more sidespin to get it in the corner. Sampras and Becker (and others including Davenport in the women) stand closer to the centre line, so they have to rotate more to get the swing and the slice, so it curves away usually upon pitching, making their serves down the centre more unreturnable as the guy has to stretch much more to get a racquet on it. So you do what Agassi did, inch over there to cover it, leaving the backside free or just give it up as aces and hope Sampras misses the first serve, it's a guessing game.

What makes Sampras' serve more impressive is that on the ad side he can toss the ball to the left, so it looks like he will hit a kicker to the backhand, but swing it down the centre instead, so the ball is kicking up high to the forehand and has a lot of pace, a nasty serve to deal with.

So basically that's where the two players differ (Federer and Sampras) Federer's second serve is more vulnerable to attack because it's not as good in pace and depth. The reason why Sampras' second serve is so good is because he can use those same elements in both deliveries, so unlike other players Sampras is not doing anything drastically different on his second serve when he misses his first serve.

I've incorporated some of those things in my service action, particularly the ball toss been always the same, if I miss the first serve, I don't have to do hardly anything different for my second delivery - so my serve is consistent and gives people a lot of trouble because I get it deep and in the corners getting up often. The straight ball toss or slightly to the left toss, knee bend and rotation are really good things to adopt. I never ever toss the ball to the right, just my preference but I look at players like Capriati and Dementieva and see the problems they have had by tossing the ball too far to the right when they get nervous. I get spin with good pace, a lovely combination, and hitting the slider on the deuce court to the forehand can be very satisfying, by tossing the ball a bit to the left, I can come over it, getting the slider and the ball getting up high as well at the same time.
 
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I've always wondered why lefties get so much side spin on their serves while righties seem to do better with topspin. I think it boils down to ball tosses.

Players like Macenroe, Navratilova and even Nadal now, seem to toss the ball to their left. So they get more side spin and a little less top. Their ball stays much lower and curves more. However their T servers are not as effective as the slider.

Players like Sampras toll the ball more in front rather that to the side. This enables them to hit monster flat and kick serves. But i always felt that Sampras's least effective serve was his wide one on the duece side.
 
laurie is just a hopeless excuse of a tennis player. Federer hits every shot just as well as Sampras does, some far better. And it can be argued that Nadal has just as good of a service game as Sampras.
 
I've always wondered why lefties get so much side spin on their serves while righties seem to do better with topspin. I think it boils down to ball tosses.

Players like Macenroe, Navratilova and even Nadal now, seem to toss the ball to their left. So they get more side spin and a little less top. Their ball stays much lower and curves more. However their T servers are not as effective as the slider.

Players like Sampras toll the ball more in front rather that to the side. This enables them to hit monster flat and kick serves. But i always felt that Sampras's least effective serve was his wide one on the duece side.

Do you think so? I always thought it was one of his best serves to the deuce court. Especially as he could get some serious kick hitting it there on the second serve - it's a second serve returners never expect, to their strengths, a serve sliding wide AND getting up high.

Anyone has any Todd Martin serve clips?
 
laurie is just a hopeless excuse of a tennis player. Federer hits every shot just as well as Sampras does, some far better. And it can be argued that Nadal has just as good of a service game as Sampras.

No he doesn't. Welcome on your first post. Why not try to be a bit nicer on your first post?

Anyway, Federer's second serve is not as good as Sampras. So right there he deosn't hit a shot as good as Sampras. One of the reasons why Federer doesn't hit many doubles is because he hits fairly safe second serves - so he's not prepared to take as many risks.

Anyway, your first post and you have a rubbish attitude already. Didn't you grow up with any manners?
 
No he doesn't. Welcome on your first post. Why not try to be a bit nicer on your first post?

Anyway, Federer's second serve is not as good as Sampras. So right there he deosn't hit a shot as good as Sampras. One of the reasons why Federer doesn't hit many doubles is because he hits fairly safe second serves - so he's not prepared to take as many risks.

Anyway, your first post and you have a rubbish attitude already. Didn't you grow up with any manners?

you really have too many discussions with such people :)
i doubt 2008 federer hits ANY shot better than 1998 sampras so...
 
The conversation between Federer and Sampras is over. It is now all about Nadal and Sampras. Nadal has already won 5 grand slams at age 22. He will break Sampras's record soon. Also Nadal has a better serve than both of them. Federer couldn't even break his serve at Wimbledon.
 
you really have too many discussions with such people :)
i doubt 2008 federer hits ANY shot better than 1998 sampras so...

Tell me about it!
It's his first post - absolutely no manners! It's quite pathetic to introduce yourself to the board with such a bad attitude, what the hell does it say about him as an individual? Not much.

And to top it all off, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Because Federer looks good he just assumes that Federer does everything the best it can be done and no-one else gets a look in.

I agree with you Cenc, it is a bit of a time waste here sometimes but I'm not going to have a dumn rookie try to tell me off, I'll put him in his place immediately. If he wants to have a civil discussion, that's different and I have no problem with that.
 
Tell me about it!
It's his first post - absolutely no manners! It's quite pathetic to introduce yourself to the board with such a bad attitude, what the hell does it say about him as an individual? Not much.

And to top it all off, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Because Federer looks good he just assumes that Federer does everything the best it can be done and no-one else gets a look in.

I agree with you Cenc, it is a bit of a time waste here sometimes but I'm not going to have a dumn rookie try to tell me off, I'll put him in his place immediately. If he wants to have a civil discussion, that's different and I have no problem with that.

some people really impress me here. problem is that 90% of people here doesnt know just anything about tennis but act like tennis experts although most of them started watching tennis 2 years ago
 
The conversation between Federer and Sampras is over. It is now all about Nadal and Sampras. Nadal has already won 5 grand slams at age 22. He will break Sampras's record soon. Also Nadal has a better serve than both of them. Federer couldn't even break his serve at Wimbledon.

1) thats because federer doesnt know to return serve
2) nadal better serve than sampras? yea definitely, thats why he is on top of aces and 1st serve points won stats in the history of the game
 
I agree with you Cenc

You just lost all credibility you had left :)

Btw the poster said service game, not serve. You have to admit its pretty damn hard to break nadal.

With pete, you get the ball back and you have a shot at winning the point, against nadal your just prolonging your torture :)
 
I'm afraid the only people who don't know anything about tennis are those Sampras fanboys who think he in any form would've made the top 100 today. After looking at ATP service numbers, it's obvious to me that even Nadal hits every shot better than Sampras did.
 
I'm afraid the only people who don't know anything about tennis are those Sampras fanboys who think he in any form would've made the top 100 today. After looking at ATP service numbers, it's obvious to me that even Nadal hits every shot better than Sampras did.

3 posts and you sound like a total wanker, absolutely astonishing. I don't think you have anything intersting to contribute to this board.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is someone who has been banned and has come back under a different name. People like you are deeply an utterly disinteresting.

How's that for a put down? You want to come back for more? Keep coming and you will get some more put downs, I've got plenty for dummies like you, I hope you are ready to take the heat.
 
1) thats because federer doesnt know to return serve
2) nadal better serve than sampras? yea definitely, thats why he is on top of aces and 1st serve points won stats in the history of the game

1) Federer has the greatest return of all time. 7/7 break points against Roddick, hello?
2) ROFL Sampras wasn't close to the top in aces or any other serve stat for that matter, buddy. Even in his own era, when he did not have to deal with Roddick and Karlovic, he was getting outaced and sometimes outserved by guys like Krajicek, Ivanisevic, and even Boris Becker. Nadal has 60% second serve points won for the year so far, leading the tour. I'd like to see you come up with a season where Sampras had close to that.
 
1) Federer has the greatest return of all time. 7/7 break points against Roddick, hello?
2) ROFL Sampras wasn't close to the top in aces or any other serve stat for that matter, buddy. Even in his own era, when he did not have to deal with Roddick and Karlovic, he was getting outaced and sometimes outserved by guys like Krajicek, Ivanisevic, and even Boris Becker. Nadal has 60% second serve points won for the year so far, leading the tour. I'd like to see you come up with a season where Sampras had close to that.

im not laurie and im not going to explain very much ill just tell you that in toronto they showed some girl in nadals box so sry man but i think nadal already has a girlfriend
 
Chadwixx, I take it you're not a fan of Cenc?

I was making the point that this new poster has absolutely no manners. But I'm very sure he's not new at all. He sounds quite confident in his ability to deliver drivel - that's not normal of someone who's new to a message board.

Anyway, what do you think of the comparsion between Federer's and Martin's serve?
 
Do you think so? I always thought it was one of his best serves to the deuce court. Especially as he could get some serious kick hitting it there on the second serve - it's a second serve returners never expect, to their strengths, a serve sliding wide AND getting up high.

Anyone has any Todd Martin serve clips?

That's exactly my point. I always felt that his wide serve in the duece court had more top and less side spin than the traditional slice serve. It was almost like a topspin serve hit across the court. It didn't tail away as much as the equivalent serve from lefties.

I think Becker did the same thing. Both Becker and Sampras has massive pronation on the serve. This generates massive topspin but it's much harder to generate side spin with that kind of pronation. For both of them the racquet head would end up on their right side pointing straight down at the end of the motion. This is very different from the traditional serve motion where the racquet would sweep across the body and end on the other side.
 
He is an obvious troll, he doesnt understand how topspin works then tells people they dont understand tennis. I put him on ignore.

From what i remember he was very stiff. Didnt have that snap that karlovic (tall guys) gets. Not an expert on martin though.
 
That's exactly my point. I always felt that his wide serve in the duece court had more top and less side spin than the traditional slice serve. It was almost like a topspin serve hit across the court. It didn't tail away as much as the equivalent serve from lefties.

I think Becker did the same thing. Both Becker and Sampras has massive pronation on the serve. This generates massive topspin but it's much harder to generate side spin with that kind of pronation. For both of them the racquet head would end up on their right side pointing straight down at the end of the motion. This is very different from the traditional serve motion where the racquet would sweep across the body and end on the other side.

Ok, good stuff. Can I ask again, did you think they had efective serves, and in particular, second serves there?

Out of interest, can you think of many players today who regularly put the 2nd serve wide to the forehand in the deuce court? It's a risky shot, going over the high part of the net. What do you think?
 
Troll is a strong word Chadwixx. I think Cenc is enthusiastic, I don't see anything wrong with that. It's fine to be enthusiastic in my opinion as long as it doesn't lead to upsetting people on purpose.

I take your point on Nadal's second serve. With someone like Pete, the game revolved around risk, so of course, especially as he got older and took even more risks, as you know with risks, in life, it has the propensity to go wrong at times. With Nadal, he doesn't take risks, as you say, he wears you down.

So it comes down to preference, some people will be attracted to the risk and reward strategy Sampras employed regularly on the 2nd serve, especially from 1998 to 2002. Then there is the Nadal way, which is get the 2nd set serve deep then move the opponent side to side until and opening presents itself for him to attack with the forehand. Both styles are very effective if done by players who have utter belief in their convictions
 
i dont feel enthusiastic i am just 100% sure that i know tennis better than most of the people here and also about top spin i put explainination of it on several topics and you mr chadwixxx or however are really amazing
1) at least 20 times said: top spin has no effect to the ball in air when ur on the ball sampras said it himself once
2) top spin is used for short crosses since it can bounce near the net but the same way agassi was hitting flat shots (still way longer, perfect lenght) and it rarely decided the match in his favour so i bet nadal wouldnt do much with this amazing top spin either since when ur on the ball its the same slice top spin or flat
 
Ok, good stuff. Can I ask again, did you think they had efective serves, and in particular, second serves there?

Out of interest, can you think of many players today who regularly put the 2nd serve wide to the forehand in the deuce court? It's a risky shot, going over the high part of the net. What do you think?

absolutely. i would put sampras and becker as 1 and 2 in terms of 2nd serve effectiveness. my only point is that i don't think either has the classic banana type slice serve. by putting more top on the serve i think they both got more reliability at the expense of swing. equally effective since you're now forced to hit high of the forehand side. the classic slice serve would pull you off the court more but the ball would stay lower.
 
Im new to this chat forum and I'm amazed at how you have forgotten how good Sampras was. He glided around the court like a panther and even now, his serve would be difficult to break. Did you all not see how many times he aced Federer in the exhibitions? I can imagine the responses will be "it was only an exhibition", but Federer was no where near them. It's easy to remember Sampras in his last few years when he lost a yard of pace, Federer and Nadal are no where near that age, how competitive will they be when they are a yard short? Quite possibly old news.
 
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