Feedback :Sergetti Stringing Methods

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by RF19, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. RF19

    RF19 Rookie

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    Hello there Stringing Gurus!
    Wanted to check if anyone has given Sergetti stringing methods a shot? If yes - what's your opinion? I did see some videos on YouTube that said that it did hold the tension longer etc....but wanted to ask here to understand from the real people...
     
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  2. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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  3. Big Bagel

    Big Bagel Rookie

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    I tried it and wasn't that impressed. I did definitely notice a difference in my first hitting session. I strung it up in the afternoon and played with it that night. It did feel better, however, by the time I went back out onto the courts a couple days later, I couldn't tell the difference between my Sergetti-strung racquet and my normal strung racquet. Very interesting idea, but I don't think that the relative tensions hold; it evens out over time, especially after being hit with. The overall tension held fine, maybe even slightly better than normal, but nothing drastic, and I did not notice a bigger sweetspot by my second hitting session with it.
     
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  4. RF19

    RF19 Rookie

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    Thanks for the feedback. I ended up buying the personalized tension sheet and strung my son's racquet, he is yet to hit with it tonight. Will be interesting to see his feedback. But I felt it's little overpriced for one racquet, if it was a little cheaper, I am sure there will be many buying for different racquet customizations.

    And with the tension loss, you were talking about, I am guessing that would happen which only goes onto prove that the method isn't for everyone, its only for those who could string after every session of their tennis (only PROs?)
     
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  5. Big Bagel

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    I'm interested to see what he thinks of it.

    I know Roger Federer used to use a similar method for his racquets, but he does not anymore. In fact, I don't know of any pro that does.
     
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  6. Smittithekitty

    Smittithekitty Rookie

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    We had a player tonight that had a tension sticker and has sergetti tensiOn written on it... I did not take the sticker out nor got any special instruction besides 53/53
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Hall of Fame

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    I have done a fair amount of experimentation with the Segetti method and standard hybrid methods in my Wilson Blade 104 over the last six months and I have become a big fan of the Sergetti method.

    IMO I feel like I have better pocketing and a much larger sweet spot then traditional stringing methods. I am a believer.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  8. RF19

    RF19 Rookie

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    Ok - here's the verdict from my son:
    First I asked him if he found the racquet to be any different to the other racquets I had strung before for him, he said 'not really'. I asked him whether he was able to center the ball more than before, this is when he said something that is very interesting, He said he was able to put more balls back in the court and.....he said he hit some unbelievable shots. I watched him from the side fence - I can say from my mere casual tennis fan/watcher experience, I head the pop to be little different than other times. I am going to give this try for couple more stringing jobs and see what happens. But this also brought me new problems, If this was to be helping him to succeed well, I'd have to invest in an electronic stringing machine.
     
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  9. Big Bagel

    Big Bagel Rookie

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    I would say, if he has a couple days without a tournament immediately after, give him two freshly strung racquets, one with and one without Sergetti stringing. Don't tell him which one is different. If he has a consistent hitting partner, maybe ask for his feedback as well on the difference between the two racquets. Sometimes the player will or won't feel a difference, but the hitting partner notices the opposite. What the player feels is important, but it's also important what the actual difference is, which will be felt by his hitting partner.
     
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  10. RF19

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    @Big Bagel - Good Idea - what I noticed yesterday was that when he plays the tournament drills, there are about 4 levels of competencies that compete, my son normally sways between 1&2, but yesterday he never dropped to 2 - stayed at the top and some of the defense shots he played were totally unbelievable. He has a tournament next week - I'll see how he fares in that one.
     
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  11. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    I totally believe that you felt some kind of change over time.

    But, string beds don’t “even out” (with respect to tension) - with or without play. It would be interesting to know what (if any) factors resulted in the changes you felt, and whether or not the proportional nature of the job exacerbated those changes (or slowed them).
     
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  12. Big Bagel

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    Why do you say they don't even out? I don't mean to say that all the strings ended up with the same exact tension, just that they different tensions pulled did not stay at the same tension relative to each other, i.e. the strings I pulled 10 pounds tighter than some others no longer felt that they were 10 pounds tighter. They might not completely even out, but the relative differences seems to go away after hitting with it for a while. I've seen someone string a racquet but they didn't have enough string to pull the final cross, and they didn't have a starting clamp to bridge the string to tension it either. They just tied it off without tensioning it. After hitting with it, the second to last cross had lost more tension than normal, and the final cross that wasn't tensioned now had some tension on it. They weren't equal, but they started to even out a little. Why would the Sergetti method change that tendency?
     
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  13. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    Friction between the grommets severely limits this outcome (if not prevents it entirely). Now, if you hit lots of balls near the edge of the frame - that might have some effect. But unless you’re not very good at tennis, you’re hitting the majority of balls near the center of the bed.
     
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  14. Big Bagel

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    The friction limits it but definitely does not prevent it entirely. Some racquets you must double-pull when stringing, meaning you pull two strings at once, and that tension goes around the grommets just fine. It's not as accurate as single pulling, but it does work. I'm not saying they become completely equal, it just changes enough to mitigate the effects of having the different tensions after a while.
     
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  15. AndI

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    RF19, I wrote a number of posts in a parallel thread and do not want to repeat myself. However, I want to share that your observations are similar to ours. If you are a top level player with laser-sharp technique, you probably would not care. If you are not at that level, a larger sweet spot that comes from proportional stringing can "improve" your tennis by a level or more because you hit make many more better shots and make much fewer mistakes "in the net" or "out" when racquet hits the ball slightly off-center. Immediate difference feels like a small, slightly softer feel, but when you start playing, you recognize that there is a big difference in performance.

    We see absolutely no way for ourselves to go back.

    I do not see tension sheets as something expensive at all. You do not need many of them, you use them over and over again, and considering that you can use a strung racquet about twice as long if it is strung per Sergetti, the tension sheet pays for itself in a single stringing job.

    Your son might like natural gut on the mains, poly on crosses hybrid strung per Sergetti, e.g., Wilson Champions Choice (gut + Alu Power Rough) or Babolat gut + RPM Blast 17. These are nice hybrids, which become even better with Sergetti. The both feel very similar, with a little more control and spin than full bed natural gut, also a little stiffer. Gut+PRP Blast is cheaper, pre-packaged. Even though poly is generally very short lived, in this hybrid in combination with Sergetti, it lasts 1-2 months.
     
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  16. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    Sure, a stringing machine tensioner would be able to overcome some of the friction between the grommets during the process of stringing a racquet.

    But hitting balls against a strung racquet is a different scenario, and not comparable to the former - within the context of the debate as to whether uneven string bed tensions even out.

    If I had to guess, it’s more likely what you are feeling is overall tension loss, the string wearing, and it’s characteristics changing as it does so.
     
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  17. Imago

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    The tension rather settles down when all the forces in the equation - both static and dynamic - even out due to the 3d law of thermodynamics. The stringbed dies at the hands of the entropy.
     
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  18. RF19

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    @AndI - Thanks for your suggestions, He actually loves the hybrid set up, But I had to force him to go on fully poly bed as it will force him to increase racquet head speed (generating your own pace) and helps him control the ball little better. I'll definitely try the hybrid combos you suggested. What is Gut + PRP? I do have some stock string I can set up and check it out for others you mentioned. He did enjoy the RPM blast on the full bed with Sergetti method, I am yet to try on one of my racquets - although not sure if the method is going to be much different between a Pure Aero and an Aero Pro Drive - I'll need to try it out and see it what happens.
     
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  19. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    No it won’t. But you could destroy an arm trying.
     
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  20. RF19

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    thanks for that - I wasn't the one to initiate it, but one of his coach (very young guy) had told me that it will help him with the racquet swing speed, as he'd have to generate on his own. I'll think on options to go back.
     
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  21. AndI

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    RF19, in our family, I was very firm that our son will never play with full bed poly because of all strings, poly is by far the worst for elbow and arm. Whether or not an injury would happen, and how soon it will happen, depends on technique and strength of muscles and ligaments, so it is highly individual. I have a sensitive elbow, and I can feel echos of vibrations in my elbow right away when I try poly. On top of that, full bed of poly goes dead in no time... We actually tried full bed poly once recently (we strung a racquet with HyperG just for the fun of it) and neither my son nor I liked it.

    I cannot see right away where I wrote "PRP", but it must have been "RPM".

    To be more specific, the hybrids which my son likes (and still tries to decide which one he likes best) are Wilson Champion's Choice Duo
    https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wi..._Hybrid_16_String/descpageACWILSON-WCC16.html

    and Babolat Hybrid RPM Blast 17 + VS Touch 16
    https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Ba..._17_VS_16_String_/descpageACBAB-BRPMVS16.html

    Babolat recommends on the packaging that poly is installed on the mains, but this makes no sense to me as it will be like poly in firmness, which defeats the purpose. We string it gut on the mains, poly on crosses. Poly can be purchased in reels, if you string yourself, and one does not have to go with a specific brand of natural gut either.

    These are nice combinations which are nearly as arm-friendly as full bed of natural gut, and yet have some "features" of poly. My son has been playing with them for a year. The differences between these two are quite subtle. Both feel much better and tension lasts much longer when strung with Sergetti. I think it may be the same tension sheet for both as these two poly strings belong to the same group. We string it at 55 reference, the racquet is Wilson ProStaff RF97A.

    My son also tried Pro Hurricane on the crosses and did not like it. After his summer vacation, he will try RPM Blast 18 and RPM Blast 17 rough as alternatives to RPM Blast 17, and I think we will call string dialing "done". Whatever he chooses at that point, he will stay with.

    P.S. If your son needs a faster racquet head speed, he might consider a more head-light racquet... Your kid's coach's idea is that if his string bed is stiffer and has less "power", he would have to provide more power himself. But it is nonsense. Racquet head speed comes from biomechanics and technique, trying to reduce racquet power in hope that your son somehow compensates for it on his own shows that the coach does not know how to improve biomechanics and technique.

    P.P.S. If your son complaints about even the smallest amount of pain in the elbow, STOP using full bed poly right away before it is too late.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  22. Big Bagel

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    A lot of young coaches are very pro-poly because that is what they used to elevate their game because for a while people didn't realize how bad it could be for the arm.

    You should NOT use poly to force someone to generate the racquet head speed. You should only use full poly if they ALREADY HAVE the racquet head speed. Otherwise, you risk injury. Please take your son away from full-poly until he needs the control of the full bed of poly because he already has the racquet head speed, AND he is breaking strings too frequently for you to keep up with. Polyester strings are very misunderstood still by a lot of players and pros, especially young pros.
     
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  23. RF19

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    Thanks @AndI and @Big Bagel for your inputs. They are very valuable. After reading Andl's post I strung my racquet with Alu Rough and Technifibre Multifeel, the result is just amazing. In fact, I tried RPM Blast and Technifibre multi feel - I like the alu rough better. I had been complaining wrist pain playing full poly, but after playing 3 sets of doubles over the weekend - I had absolutely no pain at all. I think I should switch over to the hybrid and see how my son performs, I can add string savers and see if that helps from breaking the strings too often.
     
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  24. AndI

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    You are welcome. If you liked Alu Power Rough, give your son a present of Wilson Champion's Choice. This is what Federer plays with. Your kid will be excited, if for no other reason, than because it is R.F.'s setup. And string it with Sergetti, to make it feel even better and last longer. Stringing natural gut requires more care and finer touch, but it is not rocket science. Don't try substitutes for gut, let him try the real thing. Technifibre miltifeel is not anywhere close to natural gut.

    The only thing with Sergetti, you need a constant pull machine (dropweight or electronic tensioner). Cannot do it with a crank.
     
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  25. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Hall of Fame

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    Also, I have found that the effect of the sweet spot increasing in size seems to expand as the strings break in.

    In short, you need to hit with the strings for a couple hours to begin to fully realize the full effect that this method offers in terms of increasing the size of the sweet spot.


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  26. shamaho

    shamaho Semi-Pro

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    I'm using it. full poly on a PCG100.

    1st attempt was a hack job as I tried my best to do the sergetti using my drop-weight machine - though I liked it very much! LOL

    2nd attempt was done on an electronic machine, overall felt a bit firmer.
    1st match was playing agaist a strong player I switched rackets after 15 minutes because the strings were fresh and not grabbing the ball as I needed.
    2nd match was playing againt my regular hitting partner on an official match on windy conditions, control and power and comfort was there.
    3rd match the racket still felt good, comfortable, but due to match stress I did not may much attention to it.

    So now I have 5 hours of play on that racket but did not have chance to fully appreciate the differences. but clearly apart from those first 15 minutes, I did not give the string bed a second thought and I could focus on my game plan. that has to be good no ?

    If I have another practice hit I'll try to pay more attention.

    Overall, I don't seem to loose anything over a regular stringjob, about gains... comfort is clearly one, durability or tension maintenance remains to be seen after some more hours, sweet spot sincrease... don't really know yet.

    Actually, on second though I did manage to get some balls back in full stretch, hitting well outside the sweet spot on windy conditions.. so something must have worked right - though I don't have a direct comparison... :)
     
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  27. 1HBHfanatic

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    I got a chance to try this out yesterday
    2 similar rakets, wil.k.blade.tour 93"
    1st strung normally, 2pc
    2nd strung in sergetti.ish fashion,
    my prince 500 machine does not do incremental tensions, +/- 1lb is wath I got..

    anyway,, right of the machine, the rakets def do not vibrate as bad when hit outside strings, a hughe plus when dealing with stiff raketd,,
    since tension is lower through, a fine tune of your personal tension would be needed from my normal (2lbs higher for me next time)

    I had reservations about this method, I was hoping not to like it, since it does involve so much prep and adjusting during sttinging,,
    but I was pleasantly surpriced, it def warrents further experimentation..
     
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  28. Imago

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    You got overcharged, why was this pleasant?!
     
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  29. 1HBHfanatic

    1HBHfanatic Hall of Fame

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    Haaa. Yeah, *pleasantly surpriSed,,,
    it felt nice,, buttery feel at impact, in several areas of the string bed
    served and volley practise today; felt great..
    def trying this again with a poly stringbed,,
     
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  30. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Hall of Fame

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    Even better with a Gut / Poly hybrid. Sweet spot feels huge after a couple hours of hitting and loads of pocketing, spin, feel, and control.


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  31. RF19

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    My thoughts after a couple of weeks of stringing on a drop weight - this method isn't for drop weight machines at all. I see a significant drop in tension, I struggled with the racquet yesterday, the same racquet that felt like magic right after stringing. I am looking to buy an electronic stringing machine and give this a shot with gut and poly.
     
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  32. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Really are you sure it's the drop weight? It could be the clamps you know.
     
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  33. RF19

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    You could be right. Mine is a basic drop weight machine with plastic flying clamps. And I am also not sure If the drop weight can really pull 44.9 to the precision which is why I said it’s not for the drop weight machines.


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  34. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I’m not sure a drop weight can pull to 1/10 lb precisely but I doubt that would matter. When I used the Sergetti pattern on my machine I used the Kg scale because the lb scale onl measured in 1/2 lb increments.
     
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  35. MathieuR

    MathieuR Professional

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    I'm not sure for "all" dropweigts, but my Stringway (automatic) dropweight can be used with increments of 0.1kg.
     
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  36. RF19

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    I guess the answer could be that drop weight machines with fixed metal clamps will be the closest, but i guess you can't beat the electronic machines. I am holding back on stringing natural gut on a drop weight, just a little anxiety that I might break them if I pull 50lbs on a drop weight.
     
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  37. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    50 lbs or 100 lbs on a drop weight is just like 50 / 100 lbs on an electronic machine or for that matter (I'm tyring to pick a fight LOL) 50 / 100 lbs on a lockout machine. Unless of course 50 lbs is not 50 lbs. If you pull 50 klbs on any machine it is 50 lbs. Now if you have a drop weight set up to 50 pbs and you let the weight free fall from the top you could get a peak tension of something greater than 50 lbs granted.
     
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  38. RF19

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    i guess that's a fair statement (the stringing minnows like me are always skeptical) and the art of keeping the drop weight bar perfectly parallel can make you think like that, having said that the plastic flying clamps that come along with on a X2 stringer isn't something you can depend on - I am seeing the drop in tension pretty significantly. I can easily understand why cos I see the string move atleast 1/2 inch to 1 when I release the rachet after clamping the string.
     
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  39. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    @RF19 if you're going to put money in a stringing machine put it in the clamps. The better the clamps the better the string job. Electronic / Crank / DW makes it easier and faster but not a better end result. I would never consider buying a machine that did not have excellent fixed swivel clamps. Everything else if fluff.
     
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