Feel free to critique this short ball drill.

[TimeToPlaySets]

I am really trying to turn first, then run.
I see that I kept my dangling arm on the racket handle for most of the take back.
Need to do this for baseline FH also.

I still can't do a real unit turn since I am unable to move my feet sideways, just my upper body/shoulders.

The other problem is that I am turning b/c I know that is the drill.
In sets play, that all goes out the window, and I just watch the ball, then turn at the very last second, while running nipples to the net.

 

[samarai]

on short balls, i swing fast to get lots of topspin. u have to really whip it for the ball to drop in. your volley technique seems to be all wrong. why are to volleying with 2 hands, looks like wrong grip, when u see ball come, stop split step and volley. u seem to be running through the volley.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Since the feed is coming slowly, how about trying to get your stance a bit more neutral with your right foot in front and your left foot behind so you can rotate more easily? You have a completely open stance and while this is fine if you don't have time, if you have the luxury of time it would seem more bio-mechanically efficient to alter your stance [which makes coiling easier].

To facilitate this, how about a drill where you receive the same speed feed but you don't hit the ball but simply focus on the stance?

Also, you seem to be omitting the split step and running right through most of your volleys: you are not in balance which is why you are struggling. All of your momentum is forward which leaves you very vulnerable to the lob.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Athlete: hit, finish, assume ready posture, stay lively on balls of feet, either backpedal, turn 90 and shuffle step, or turn 180 and run back to start position.

Non-athlete: hit, slump shoulders, slouch, turn slowly, drag feet while walking back slothlike, forcing coach to tap his foot and wait, guaranteeing minimal value received for lesson, maximum time wasted, zero conditioning, footwork, or real-game experience gained.

Hard to believe progress is slow.

 

[Power Player]

Guy in the video is insanely un-athletic. Have a better example?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Look at 0:50 [and the subsequent slow-mo replay] and see how Federer is turning in order to step into the ball. You can absolutely do the same thing on these short ball drills.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

your volley technique seems to be all wrong. why are to volleying with 2 hands, looks like wrong grip, when u see ball come, stop split step and volley. u seem to be running through the volley.

I have not volleyed since last year.
I will begin drilling volleys sometime later this month.

get your stance a bit more neutral with your right foot in front and your left foot behind so you can rotate more easily?

Can't do it.
Simply physically impossible for me.
I can only turn my upper body.
I have no idea how to make my right foot go in front and stand sideways.
Unit turn is exponentially harder than even serving.

Non-athlete: hit, slump shoulders, slouch, turn slowly, drag feet while walking back slothlike, forcing coach to tap his foot and wait, guaranteeing minimal value received for lesson, maximum time wasted, zero conditioning, footwork, or real-game experience gained.

This was done after 1.5 hours of drilling.
Notice the sweat stains on the shirt

Value?
Most productive month of tennis in my life.
I'd gladly write him a check for $20k tonight if I could get this daily for a year.
I'm going to start taking 3 hours a day.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

S&V-not_dead_yet, Today at 2:33 PM Edit Report
Since the feed is coming slowly, how about trying to get your stance a bit more neutral with your right foot in front and your left foot behind so you can rotate more easily? You have a completely open stance and while this is fine if you don't have time, if you have the luxury of time it would seem more bio-mechanically efficient to alter your stance [which makes coiling easier].

To facilitate this, how about a drill where you receive the same speed feed but you don't hit the ball but simply focus on the stance?

Can't do it.
Simply physically impossible for me.
I can only turn my upper body.
I have no idea how to make my right foot go in front and stand sideways.

It's hard to fathom a coach who would accept that reasoning unless you were in a full body cast.

X is "physically impossible" and "I have no idea how to do X" are two different things. You're clearly capable of doing the motion so focus on how to accomplish it, not that you believe it to be impossible. When you serve to the Deuce court you turn sideways. Why is that physically possible but on a GS it's not?

When you walk, I assume you stride forward with your right foot and put in front of your left foot. That's half of the battle. Now pivot on your heels so that your toes are pointing somewhat sideways [doesn't have to be 90 degrees]. Now turn your upper body. Bingo: you have achieved the ready position.

Do this without a racquet and ball until you're comfortable. Then add the racquet. Later, add the ball. Then add motion.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Hard to believe progress is slow.

His coach is very happy with his shot at 0:52.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I am so focused on turning my upper body that nothing happens with the legs.

I have no idea how to turn sideways.
If I hop, I tend to step backwards with my left foot to make myself sideways.
Something about stepping forward with the right foot is just very unnatural.

If I can't do it slowly, I will never do it in a match, so I have just written this off.
At least I am turning my shoulders and not directly facing the net.
Open stance is all the rage, anyways.

Think a new racket will help?

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

His coach is very happy with his shot at 0:52.

That was me talking.
"Look at that" compared to the garbage I was dumping into the net in yesterday's match.
Hit with authority, hit deep, :52 is all I need against any player.

 

[fundrazer]

Since the feed is coming slowly, how about trying to get your stance a bit more neutral with your right foot in front and your left foot behind so you can rotate more easily? You have a completely open stance and while this is fine if you don't have time, if you have the luxury of time it would seem more bio-mechanically efficient to alter your stance [which makes coiling easier].

To facilitate this, how about a drill where you receive the same speed feed but you don't hit the ball but simply focus on the stance?

Also, you seem to be omitting the split step and running right through most of your volleys: you are not in balance which is why you are struggling. All of your momentum is forward which leaves you very vulnerable to the lob.

I suggested this as well in another thread, but it went ignored I think. Referred to Federer too, that hopstep he does which I think you're referring to in the other post.

Might wanna learn how to hit a down the line approach as well.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I am trying the "sideway" unit turn in my living room.
Once I take my right foot and put it in front of me, so my feet and chest are both facing left, where should my weight be?

I think the reason my brain does not allow this in actual tennis is that I am not totally immobile,
since I am now facing sideways. Mobility is like 10% that if facing forwards.

Another huge problem with my groundstrokes is there is minimal weight transfer.
I think I am only using my upper body. I think this ties into the weight being on the wrong leg.

For my next lesson, I will spend an entire hour doing sideways turn groundstrokes.
I can double this lesson as a "react early" reinforcement, which I need anyway.
(Say "Turn" as soon as he hits it)
I think I sort of do it for my BH, but there is zero weight or hip transfer, and 100% upper body.
The clue is that my back foot is off the ground when I swing.

 

[Irrefutable]

I question the shot selection, if you go cross court with a medium/slow shot you will be passed down the line.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

At 3.5, if they pass me with a BH DTL shot, and it actually stays in play, I will clap my racket.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I am trying the "sideway" unit turn in my living room.
Once I take my right foot and put it in front of me, so my feet and chest are both facing left, where should my weight be?

Ideally on the back foot so you can transfer your weight forward and add it to your shot. This will be easy to do on a slow feed or even a drop feed.

However, in a live ball scenario, you may not have the luxury of time. At that point, where your weight is ceases to be that important: you will likely hit and continue moving forward so as long as you're not leaning backwards, you'll be fine.

I think the reason my brain does not allow this in actual tennis is that I am not totally immobile,
since I am now facing sideways. Mobility is like 10% that if facing forwards.

Well, start with the simplest scenario possible, which is immobile, no racquet, and no ball. Just groove the footwork and unit turn. Once you get comfortable with that, start adding in the other elements.

Another huge problem with my groundstrokes is there is minimal weight transfer.
I think I am only using my upper body. I think this ties into the weight being on the wrong leg.

For my next lesson, I will spend an entire hour doing sideways turn groundstrokes.
I can double this lesson as a "react early" reinforcement, which I need anyway.
(Say "Turn" as soon as he hits it)
I think I sort of do it for my BH, but there is zero weight or hip transfer, and 100% upper body.
The clue is that my back foot is off the ground when I swing.

I'd worry about just the turn and forget about weight transfer for now. Once you get the turn down, then add other things like weight transfer.

Ever do Tai Chi? Much of it is controlling one's balance and weight transfer [albeit very slowly]. This might be helpful to you, even though the movements are slow and deliberate. One can easily envision speeding them up to a tennis-like pace.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I am really trying to turn first, then run.
I see that I kept my dangling arm on the racket handle for most of the take back.
Need to do this for baseline FH also.

I still can't do a real unit turn since I am unable to move my feet sideways, just my upper body/shoulders.

The other problem is that I am turning b/c I know that is the drill.
In sets play, that all goes out the window, and I just watch the ball, then turn at the very last second, while running nipples to the net.

Not bad. If you extend your right arm parallel to the baseline, and touch your right shoulder to your chin, that will help to promote a more complete unit turn. Your backhand volley is non-existent. Your coach shouldn't just continue to feed balls to your backhand volley without teaching you proper form.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

At 3.5, if they pass me with a BH DTL shot, and it actually stays in play, I will clap my racket.

DTL is the usual choice because you only have to move a little to get into optimal position to equally cover an opponent's range of responses. Going CC means having to travel a further distance to get into optimal position.

But that's "cart before horse" as you are fond of writing. For the time being, forget about shot selection and concentrate on your footwork.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Not worried about volleys for now. They are out of scope. Build the foundation first.

The grip change to Conti while running forward will take months of lessons to become automatic.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

You can only learn one thing at a time. I am taking lessons every single day for the next few months. Budget is unlimited. Patience is the key

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Not worried about volleys for now. They are out of scope. Build the foundation first.

I would tend to agree. But then why was your coach having you hit volleys after the approach?

Also, I repeat my question: what kind of feedback have you gotten from your coach about your turn?

 

[Slicerman]

I am so focused on turning my upper body that nothing happens with the legs.

I have no idea how to turn sideways.
If I hop, I tend to step backwards with my left foot to make myself sideways.
Something about stepping forward with the right foot is just very unnatural.

If I can't do it slowly, I will never do it in a match, so I have just written this off.
At least I am turning my shoulders and not directly facing the net.
Open stance is all the rage, anyways.

Think a new racket will help?

Do you know how to do a Carioca step?

 

[Limpinhitter]

Not worried about volleys for now. They are out of scope. Build the foundation first.

The grip change to Conti while running forward will take months of lessons to become automatic.

You're making it more difficult than it is. In my view, you should learn all of the shots together.

 

[Todd Hicks]

I am really trying to turn first, then run.
I see that I kept my dangling arm on the racket handle for most of the take back.
Need to do this for baseline FH also.

I still can't do a real unit turn since I am unable to move my feet sideways, just my upper body/shoulders.

The other problem is that I am turning b/c I know that is the drill.
In sets play, that all goes out the window, and I just watch the ball, then turn at the very last second, while running nipples to the net.

The video doesn't play and I'm unsure what you're doing but it's best to hold your racket in front of you with at least one hand while running for the ball, especially sideways.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I would tend to agree. But then why was your coach having you hit volleys after the approach?
Also, I repeat my question: what kind of feedback have you gotten from your coach about your turn?

The point of the drill was to follow my CC approach shot to the net.
You need to be trained out of the natural instinct to hit the ball, and then stop and watch your ball.

I also was doing a recovery drill where I would hit my moonball.
Then I would stop and watch it to see if it landed in.
Instead, I hit it and immed. ran back to center hash (and a little deeper inside baseline) in order to take advantage of the short ball return.

Do you know how to do a Carioca step?

Never heard of it.

You're making it more difficult than it is. In my view, you should learn all of the shots together.

Can't be done.
One thing at a time.
Learning 101

it's best to hold your racket in front of you with at least one hand while running for the ball, especially sideways.

Yes, I've been told this.
I will need to schedule an entire lesson of just running forward with my racket ahead of me.
You need to be trained out of the natural instinct to just run with the racket at your side.

 

[ARKustom93]

Would be great if you could 'fix' the clip access.

 

[Limpinhitter]

The point of the drill was to follow my CC approach shot to the net.
You need to be trained out of the natural instinct to hit the ball, and then stop and watch your ball.

I also was doing a recovery drill where I would hit my moonball.
Then I would stop and watch it to see if it landed in.
Instead, I hit it and immed. ran back to center hash (and a little deeper inside baseline) in order to take advantage of the short ball return.



Never heard of it.



Can't be done.
One thing at a time.
Learning 101



Yes, I've been told this.
I will need to schedule an entire lesson of just running forward with my racket ahead of me.
You need to be trained out of the natural instinct to just run with the racket at your side.

It's done every single day by every kid who wants to learn to play tennis.

 

[VexlanderPrime]

Yes, I've been told this.
I will need to schedule an entire lesson of just running forward with my racket ahead of me.
You need to be trained out of the natural instinct to just run with the racket at your side.

Dude your solution of throwing money at everything is pretty funny. Just walk around your house and shadow swing while holding the throat with your offhand until it reaches your ear on your backswing. Problem solved. No need to hire Boris Becker

Saw the vid before you deleted. You still need to keep your offhand higher during the swing and followthru - your really hurting your balance ability when it falls near your hip

 

[VexlanderPrime]

You can only learn one thing at a time. I am taking lessons every single day for the next few months. Budget is unlimited. Patience is the key

I actually agree with ur one at a time approach. Thr only issue is maintenance- just be sure to work in a decent amount of practice if the skills you check off the list even while working on a new thing. Dialed in tennis strokes depreciate really really fast without maintenance

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I am trying the "sideway" unit turn in my living room.
Once I take my right foot and put it in front of me, so my feet and chest are both facing left, where should my weight be?

I think the reason my brain does not allow this in actual tennis is that I am not totally immobile,
since I am now facing sideways. Mobility is like 10% that if facing forwards.

Another huge problem with my groundstrokes is there is minimal weight transfer.
I think I am only using my upper body. I think this ties into the weight being on the wrong leg.

For my next lesson, I will spend an entire hour doing sideways turn groundstrokes.
I can double this lesson as a "react early" reinforcement, which I need anyway.
(Say "Turn" as soon as he hits it)
I think I sort of do it for my BH, but there is zero weight or hip transfer, and 100% upper body.
The clue is that my back foot is off the ground when I swing.

If you're having problems turning sideways, instead of your coach feeding you balls that you have to run to hit, how about drop feeding to yourself just so you can focus on the turn? In fact, why not start in an already turned position? In your vid, you are getting to the ball but 180 degrees out of phase [with your left/dominant foot closer to the ball instead of your right/non-dominant foot]. Eliminating the running part will help.

Check out the hitter's turn here [starting at 1:37]:

http://www.essentialtennis.com/returning-a-high-bouncing-mid-court-ball/

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Another observation: as you're swinging your left hand, you are moving your right leg forward. This leg movement is subtracting power from your swing.

 

[Slicerman]

Never heard of it.

Carioca step. If you learn it, you will fix all your "turning sideways" issues.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

It's done every single day by every kid who wants to learn to play tennis.

Not really. Kids just face the net with their nipples and arm the ball.
That is why there is such thing as "tennis instruction"
Take a look and take a walk to the local public courts.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I actually agree with ur one at a time approach. Thr only issue is maintenance- just be sure to work in a decent amount of practice if the skills you check off the list even while working on a new thing. Dialed in tennis strokes depreciate really really fast without maintenance

I agree.
I plan to take 90 straight days of lessons.
Some days, I hit 2x a day. I'm currently at day 35 or so.
Then, I will take a maint. lesson twice a week as long as I play tennis.

If you want to play tennis, and keep score, then don't bother unless you're drilling 2 hours a week.
Pros hit 2000 balls a day. A fat 55 year old accountant needs more drill, not less.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

In your vid, you are getting to the ball but 180 degrees out of phase [with your left/dominant foot closer to the ball instead of your right/non-dominant foot]. Eliminating the running part will help.

Yea, I don't have any control over that.
I wouldn't even know how to explain that to the coach.
At 3.5, all I can do is turn early, and get to ball, and plant before swinging. Good enough.
Certain things are too late in life, and learning how to run is too late for me.

Thanks, but the video was garbage.
Why? He was fed fake balls that were slow and right next to him.
This has zero resemblance to real tennis, where one must SPRINT to the short ball.
That is when his form will break down, he will forget to turn, run straight towards the ball, racket at his side (since arms are pumping)
It's like getting a test in school that has nothing to do whatsoever with what the teacher taught in class. LOL.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Yea, I don't have any control over that.

Of course you do. As you've written yourself many times, you learn how to do it correctly and then you practice it until it becomes second nature.

It would be one thing if your opponent was serving 130mph and you didn't have the reflexes to react. Fair enough. But you're getting relatively easy feeds; you have more than enough time to adjust.

I wouldn't even know how to explain that to the coach.

Your coach is standing right there [unless that's not your coach in which case you can just show him this video].

At 3.5, all I can do is turn early, and get to ball, and plant before swinging. Good enough.
Certain things are too late in life, and learning how to run is too late for me.

I didn't ask you to learn how to run differently. Your running is fine. I did ask you to change your footwork so you end up in a different position. Instead of ending your run with an open stance, end it with a neutral one, which requires one more step with your right foot. If you slowed things down enough, you'd easily be able to do this.

So, to make it easier, eliminate the running so you can perfect the turning of the feet. Then you can do simple drop feeds with no running to complicate things.

However, you show a marked bias against such simplifications, preferring to try and do everything at once, failing, and then proclaiming it's impossible.

Thanks, but the video was garbage.
Why? He was fed fake balls that were slow and right next to him.
This has zero resemblance to real tennis, where one must SPRINT to the short ball.

The description of the video was "Putting away sitters...." Sitters. Not drop shots out of easy reach. Therefore, the video perfectly demonstrates this.

You're putting the cart before the horse, wanting to know how to deal with an advanced situation before learning the more basic scenarios.

He was fed easy balls, yes. Even better would be if he started with a drop feed to make it even easier. Why did they make the video this way instead of showing a red alert full sprint? Because they were trying to teach a basic concept, not an advanced one.

I played doubles recently against two 5.0s. Even at that fast [for me] pace, I got a couple of short sitters where I used the concepts demonstrated in the video.

That is when his form will break down, he will forget to turn, run straight towards the ball, racket at his side (since arms are pumping)
It's like getting a test in school that has nothing to do whatsoever with what the teacher taught in class. LOL.

No: it's like getting a test that deals with the simplest examples of the concept being taught. If I can't solve those problems, I certainly won't be able to solve the tough ones. You want to skip to the tough ones; I'm advising you to master the simple ones first.

 

[Power Player]

Oh man, OP is the guy in the vid. Explains a lot.

I'd put the racquet down and focus on training athletic movements for 6 months to a year. Just get some basic coordination and athletic skill before trying to play tennis and wasting all this money on lessons.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I should take a year off from tennis? Amazing advice to get better at tennis!
What exercises should I do for an entire year while I prepare to take tennis lessons?

 

[ChaelAZ]

No vid.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Vid is gone. Moving on. Unit turn

 

[Limpinhitter]

Not really. Kids just face the net with their nipples and arm the ball.
That is why there is such thing as "tennis instruction"
Take a look and take a walk to the local public courts.

You can lead a horse to water. . . .

 

[fundrazer]

Oh man, OP is the guy in the vid. Explains a lot.

I'd put the racquet down and focus on training athletic movements for 6 months to a year. Just get some basic coordination and athletic skill before trying to play tennis and wasting all this money on lessons.

I think it's becoming one of those sunk cost scenarios. He's spent too much to give up on achieving 4.0.

 

[Power Player]

I should take a year off from tennis? Amazing advice to get better at tennis!
What exercises should I do for an entire year while I prepare to take tennis lessons?

You need to learn how to move and be athletic. You are trying to hit athletic put aways and things that are so beyond your current level of coordination right now. There are a million ways to improve coordination. Try anything, for the love of god.

Tennis is a game of footwork and balance more than anything. That is why a lot of guys who played soccer or basketball are able to become good rather fast.

Waste of money to sink it all into tennis and play all the time. It won't fix your core issues.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

74% of men are overweight or obese.
I am easily more athletic and coordinated than 90% of the entire population.

Coordinated? I've shot 1 under on the front 9.

You really haven't a clue what you're talking about.
Stop wasting my time, Suresh.

 

[5263]

I still can't do a real unit turn since I am unable to move my feet sideways, just my upper body/shoulders.

You can't do it because nobody can....Unit turn is a beginning learner concept and not for actual play unless your hapless opponent hits the shot right into your wheelhouse. The idea of doing the unit turn, then running to the ball is pretty ridiculous. Also the current idea of the unit turn has a near overhaul over what was taught for the unit turn just 5-10 yrs ago.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Well, the problem with learning tennis is that no one can agree what you should even learn.
It is truly the "invisible" sport that is a literal mystery to 99.99% of the population.
It is unknowable, and unlearnable. That is why everyone assumed Fed was just born playing 7.0 tennis. It is the only logical conclusion.

 

[5263]

Well, the problem with learning tennis is that no one can agree what you should even learn.
It is truly the "invisible" sport that is a literal mystery to 99.99% of the population.
It is unknowable, and unlearnable. That is why everyone assumed Fed was just born playing 7.0 tennis. It is the only logical conclusion.

I don't think it is really that unknowable and there is a fast growing movement towards a much better understanding of the modern strokes.

 

[Power Player]

74% of men are overweight or obese.
I am easily more athletic and coordinated than 90% of the entire population.

You are delusional. I saw the vid. You are not athletic at all man. Put your ego away, own it and get better.

You may not think I have a clue, but I am better than you at tennis (not a huge feat) and at least know how to attack short balls.

 

[Fxanimator1]

I see no video at all...Was it that bad?!?!

 

[mad dog1]

I see no video at all...Was it that bad?!?!

Typical beginner hitting and movement.