Feeling pressure against slightly weaker opponent?

FiReFTW

FiReFTW

Legend
I noticed something very interesting, and its consistently happening lately.

I tend to play most tense against a slightly weaker opponent.

Against a much weaker opponent I know I can play at like 70% where I can hit like 100 shots in a row and play with him and win so I play freely and relaxed and loose.

Against a stronger opponent I expect too lose and have nothing to lose so I play and swing freely and relaxed and loose and I play my best tennis.

But I feel very tense against someone that was better than me in the past but now as ive improved I started beating him and his shots not hurting me at all anymore, but I feel pressure now because my level has grown past him but yet im not ao superior that I can easily win with 70% effort, so I know I cant slip up or I might lose and then I feel like I fail and feel embarassed by it because I expect from miself to beat him.
So I tend to be very tight and tense which of course I know hurts me and makes me play worse, but its quite hard to shrug away.

And then I stop playing loose and freely and outplay and outhit him and win 6:2 6:3 etc, but instead it starts to be a tense match where I cant swing out and start to slow my swing and it gets into a very grinding affair and tight affair and with very close sets and lots of junk pushing not free enjoyable tennis and its not that enjoyable to play like that, grind to victory and afraid to swing.
 
But one thing to note it seems to happen most intense when I dont play matches very often, like 1 time per week or 10 days, when I play like 2-3 matches per week I seem to be much more confident and not afraid to swing.
So playing very often is some part of the solution, but its still interesting and annoying how I can play better against a better opponent than I do against someone I know I can beat fairly easily with my A game.
 
Sounds like you figured it out, but even more so you realized the mental side of your game. Now that you’re aware of it, you can do something about it. Get your head right before every match, treat every opponent the same regardless of their skill level.
 
@FiReFTW,

You outlined the problem nicely: people tend to feel more pressure playing someone they "should beat". This happens because of expectations. Patrick Cohn recommends having high confidence but no expectations. Easier said than done but it's a powerful tool to keep you on an even mental keel. If you miss a shot, don't berate yourself with "I should never miss that shot against Mr. X because I'm better than him"; that will only lead to more tension and tentativeness.

Think of a related example: you likely wouldn't berate yourself [as much] if you made the same mistake against a much better player. Try to focus on the process of hitting a good shot, not who your opponent is.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
@FiReFTW,

You outlined the problem nicely: people tend to feel more pressure playing someone they "should beat". This happens because of expectations. Patrick Cohn recommends having high confidence but no expectations. Easier said than done but it's a powerful tool to keep you on an even mental keel. If you miss a shot, don't berate yourself with "I should never miss that shot against Mr. X because I'm better than him"; that will only lead to more tension and tentativeness.

Think of a related example: you likely wouldn't berate yourself [as much] if you made the same mistake against a much better player. Try to focus on the process of hitting a good shot, not who your opponent is.
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Yea but its funny I dont feel the same pressure against someone that I can beat with my little finger, there I just toy around and hit 70% effort shots i can make all day.

But when against someone probably 1utr weaker I know im a bit better but if I slip too much it can get tough to win but since im better I dont want to lose to them because I have expectations that I have to beat them since im better and losing is embarassing because im better, can you relate to that, ever felt like that?
 
FiReFTW said:
Yea but its funny I dont feel the same pressure against someone that I can beat with my little finger, there I just toy around and hit 70% effort shots i can make all day.

But when against someone probably 1utr weaker I know im a bit better but if I slip too much it can get tough to win but since im better I dont want to lose to them because I have expectations that I have to beat them since im better and losing is embarassing because im better, can you relate to that, ever felt like that?
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Yep and this is one of the many things that make the mental part of tennis so tough. Plus if your playing someone just a little below you anything can happen. If they are playing well and your a little off you can lose even if you aren’t playing nervous.

But I know what your talking about because I have felt and played the same way against lesser players. I will usually beat them but like you mentioned in your first post I will end up playing too safe and just outlast them with my consistency. Where if I would play them more care free and relax I would beat them much easier. I’m still trying to master this mental part of the game and I have found it’s not easy.
 
tlm said:
But I know what your talking about because I have felt and played the same way against lesser players. I will usually beat them but like you mentioned in your first post I will end up playing too safe and just outlast them with my consistency. Where if I would play them more care free and relax I would beat them much easier. I’m still trying to master this mental part of the game and I have found it’s not easy.
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Exactly that!
It turns out into a not very enjoyable tennis at least for me, I love to be creative and swing freely and build nice points or finish them etc and have the match on my racquet.
But that ugly grinding out points and outlasting them is pretty frustrating way to play for me and not very enjoyable, but in such cases i cant do much else because im tight and tense and dont have that loose whip forehand but tight so if I swing out it doesnt have control and easily misshit, so im forced to grind it if i want to win, but ity not enjoyable.
 
FiReFTW said:
But one thing to note it seems to happen most intense when I dont play matches very often, like 1 time per week or 10 days, when I play like 2-3 matches per week I seem to be much more confident and not afraid to swing.
So playing very often is some part of the solution, but its still interesting and annoying how I can play better against a better opponent than I do against someone I know I can beat fairly easily with my A game.
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Playing someone you know is better and you know that just hanging with them is good enough takes all the pressure off you. When I play a better player that I know that I may get an occasional set from but can’t beat them I probably play my best. I don’t worry too much about the score and I know I have to play well and there’s not much time during the points so I just react and play instead of thinking too much.
 
FiReFTW said:
Exactly that!
It turns out into a not very enjoyable tennis at least for me, I love to be creative and swing freely and build nice points or finish them etc and have the match on my racquet.
But that ugly grinding out points and outlasting them is pretty frustrating way to play for me and not very enjoyable, but in such cases i cant do much else because im tight and tense and dont have that loose whip forehand but tight so if I swing out it doesnt have control and easily misshit, so im forced to grind it if i want to win, but ity not enjoyable.
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I know what your talking about and yes it sucks and I have no easy cure to the problem. One of my good friends that I hit with once a week used to beat me but now I beat him most of the time. He constantly reminds me to always swing out and I will play much better.

So when playing him I usually play my best because I don’t worry about winning against him. Because he is such a good guy and a solid player if he wins it doesn’t bother me because I usually beat him and there is no shame if I lose to him. So I end up playing my best tennis against him.

So many times while playing another opponent that’s no better than him or not even as good i won’t play as free and relaxed and I will be thinking why can’t I play as good as I do against my friend? So many times I will grind it out and win but knowing that if I played more relaxed I could have won much easier.
 
FiReFTW said:
Yea but its funny I dont feel the same pressure against someone that I can beat with my little finger, there I just toy around and hit 70% effort shots i can make all day.

But when against someone probably 1utr weaker I know im a bit better but if I slip too much it can get tough to win but since im better I dont want to lose to them because I have expectations that I have to beat them since im better and losing is embarassing because im better, can you relate to that, ever felt like that?
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Of course I've felt and I feel like that. But I've been working on tempering my expectations and to concentrate on the process.
 
That's cause you either play the weaker opponents game or their balls give you no spin so you have to generate your own.
 
"Slightly" weaker doesn't seem to indicate you're much stronger. Those kinds of matches can go either way at every level including the pros, because you and your opponent are closely matched. You can expect to lose those matches on days your strokes are not clicking just as there will be days that you will win matches against "slightly" better opponents.

If you're saying the opponent is clearly weaker and you tend to get tense against those opponents, then it's a different question.
 
NuBas said:
That's cause you either play the weaker opponents game or their balls give you no spin so you have to generate your own.
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Thats not really it, I can hit dead balls quite well when im loose and relaxed because my grip is so relaxed and I really feel that whip where my racquet whips and gives easy power and spin, but I get tense and grip the racquet tight in these situations because I feel like im too good to lose to this level opponent and fear of losing because that would be considered a failure in my eyes and embarassing to miself.

And when im tense and grip is not relaxed I don't feel the whip its more of a push almost, and I lose alot of spin and control with that.

mcs1970 said:
"Slightly" weaker doesn't seem to indicate you're much stronger. Those kinds of matches can go either way at every level including the pros, because you and your opponent are closely matched. You can expect to lose those matches on days your strokes are not clicking just as there will be days that you will win matches against "slightly" better opponents.

If you're saying the opponent is clearly weaker and you tend to get tense against those opponents, then it's a different question.
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Level is such that I should easily win 9 out of 10 matches and maybe lose 1 when I really play very bad and the opponent plays great.
 
Yeah it's funny even when you expect to lose it niggles. I played this other old guy a few times - good matches tuff but fair - good bloke. Inspirational really he s still playing in the A grade in his 60s.

I know I can beat him from BL. And my team had already won so I went on a suicide run. Net rushed to practice my crappy net game. He s very consistent and accurate so of course I got picked off. Still down on myself for losing. Need to kill that ego some more.
 
@FiReFTW You're relatively new to Tennis. High level players have the confidence in going for their strokes and knowing it will stay in, because it's confidence that has a base built on solid technique due to years and years of drilling. You can't take short cuts to that process.

So you have two choices....take many years to learn how to hit extremely fast, flatter shots and still be able to keep the ball in play or if you want quicker results sacrifice some pace and hit with more topspin. You might not like that advice, but I'm just being realistic.


It's easy to go for strokes against much weaker players since you know you can make many errors and still win. It's easy to go for strokes against much better players because you don't care about losing. Sound stroke technique comes much more into play when the margin for error is much lower, when you play opponents close to your level, since the match is decided on a few points here and there. Players who dink are lower level players who don't have the technical confidence in their strokes, but blame it on the mental part.


Learn to hit smart targets with a lot of topspin and a high margin for error against even much weaker players, even if you have to sacrifice some pace. Once you can do that consistently, it is bound to carry over when you play opponents at your level and higher ones too. Tell yourself that you are a lower level player until you can learn to hit out consistently in matches against opponents where the match will be decided on a few points here and there, and use matches against much lower level players to learn high margin, consistent strokes. Don't go for flashy stuff against lower level players. It won't do you any good when matched up against players of your own level.
 
This ∆. Wot I said but much better expressed. In fact you should be really grateful to those players. Because they re giving you a ladder to the next level. You're obviously talented. Build those habbits - trust the process and it will click


And respect your opponents matchups are huge. There's many ways of being a good player. I'm a pretty solid junkballer with a strong serve and forehand and I've got spanked by guys who possessed a better junk ball.
 
You talk about how you feel facing a stronger or weaker opponent than you. What about the ones you think are at your level?
 
Curious said:
You talk about how you feel facing a stronger or weaker opponent than you. What about the ones you think are at your level?
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I feel pretty relaxed already playing much weaker, similar level and stronger, since I started playing matches and points more often, its just slightly weaker that im getting a bit tense because I expect to win but also know they are not that much worse so I can easily slip up and then might get even more tense when I make a few errors, I guess its a bit of an ego thing, since I expect from miself to beat them and if I don't and lose to someone whos not as good as me my ego is a bit hurt I guess.
 
FiReFTW said:
I love to be creative and swing freely and build nice points or finish them etc and have the match on my racquet.
But that ugly grinding out points and outlasting them is pretty frustrating way to play for me and not very enjoyable.
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This is a huge weakness.

You either have to decide to play your game and accept the losses (Leconte) or do whatever it takes to win even if it's ugly or takes all day (Robredo.)

Before you decide though, I'mma tell you something most people don't get. After the match is over the only thing that gets written down is the score.

J
 
Curious said:
I suspect you’re trying to avoid facing the reality! It matures you though even if it hurts.
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On the contrary, I suspect alot of people here would be quite suprized at my level considering how long ive been playing.

But my focus is only improving week after week, thats my only focus at the moment, when I do post a video its just going to be for people here to enjoy some gameplay, because I know alot of people enjoy those videos, miself included.

Thats my whole reason to show the vid, not to get opinions, or to prove anything to anyone here, I don't care about any of that honestly.
 
J011yroger said:
This is a huge weakness.

You either have to decide to play your game and accept the losses (Leconte) or do whatever it takes to win even if it's ugly or takes all day (Robredo.)

Before you decide though, I'mma tell you something most people don't get. After the match is over the only thing that gets written down is the score.

J
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I get what your saying and I agree with you 100%

You play your game and win some matches, but in other matches ur just either off, or your opponent is a bad matchup or has a great day while ur off and in order to win you can't play your game but have to grind out the win somehow if you can by sheer willpower.

I know what your saying, I watch alot of tennis and I know that even extremely attacking all court players far more talented than any rec player such as Federer are sometimes forced to grind out wins somehow in an ugly way.

I was just saying that its not really enjoyable for me to play like that, I don't particularly enjoy it, its pretty frustrating to play that way but I know its needed sometimes.

And its mentaly exhausting aswell.
 
FiReFTW said:
On the contrary, I suspect alot of people here would be quite suprized at my level considering how long ive been playing.

But my focus is only improving week after week, thats my only focus at the moment, when I do post a video its just going to be for people here to enjoy some gameplay, because I know alot of people enjoy those videos, miself included.

Thats my whole reason to show the vid, not to get opinions, or to prove anything to anyone here, I don't care about any of that honestly.
Click to expand...
Ok you don’t wanna look bad!
 
FiReFTW said:
I get what your saying and I agree with you 100%

You play your game and win some matches, but in other matches ur just either off, or your opponent is a bad matchup or has a great day while ur off and in order to win you can't play your game but have to grind out the win somehow if you can by sheer willpower.

I know what your saying, I watch alot of tennis and I know that even extremely attacking all court players far more talented than any rec player such as Federer are sometimes forced to grind out wins somehow in an ugly way.

I was just saying that its not really enjoyable for me to play like that, I don't particularly enjoy it, its pretty frustrating to play that way but I know its needed sometimes.

And its mentaly exhausting aswell.
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So if it's not enjoyable to play like that, why do you do it?

Why do you play? What's your goal?

J
 
J011yroger said:
So if it's not enjoyable to play like that, why do you do it?

Why do you play? What's your goal?

J
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Its needed to win, my goal is to win when I play.

If im overly tense or my shot is somehow off, I have to adapt in order to win, I can't continue with a losing strategy.

I guess not enjoyable is too strong of a word, I always enjoy playing tennis, I guess the better word is its mentaly draining and tough and alot of struggling compared to when ur game is on or your loose its just flying and going in 6th gear.
 
heninfan99 said:
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Excellent video, but I still believe a lot of that advice is for youngsters who are already drilling a ton every day. I don't think the youngsters that Landsorp is talking about will be dinking in matches. Maybe they choke at key points, but I'm sure they are going for their strokes most of the match.

Rec players who resort to dinking a lot during the course of a match tend to talk about the mental part when their technique is not good enough to hit freely and keep the ball in play. I think the best advice for those players is to learn high margin consistent shots and sacrifice on some pace. @5263 has an excellent thread of how even pros hit much more safer than we think.
 
FiReFTW said:
Its needed to win, my goal is to win when I play.

If im overly tense or my shot is somehow off, I have to adapt in order to win, I can't continue with a losing strategy.

I guess not enjoyable is too strong of a word, I always enjoy playing tennis, I guess the better word is its mentaly draining and tough and alot of struggling compared to when ur game is on or your loose its just flying and going in 6th gear.
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Seems like you want to crush every opponent easily.
 
Curious said:
Seems like you want to crush every opponent easily.
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Not necessarily, I don't mean it in that way.

I can play good, loose relaxed and hit great shots, but if opponent is good so can he, so I might not crush him, he might even win, but for me its a much easier type of game when I can really play my game.

But if something is off, or im tense (or if opponent is an extreme retreiver and defensive player) and can't play that way it becomes more of a battle, a grind, think more like Nadal type of grind and battle, and thats much more exhausting and mentaly draining and tough.

I prefer the 1st, but I guess most people would.
 
FiReFTW said:
But if something is off, or im tense and can't play that way it becomes more of a battle, a grind, think more like Nadal type of grind and battle, and thats much more exhausting and mentaly draining and tough.
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Still you’re trying to win easily. You want to ‘play freely, swing freely’, win points with your winners rather than your opponent’s errors.
 
FiReFTW said:
Its needed to win, my goal is to win when I play.

If im overly tense or my shot is somehow off, I have to adapt in order to win, I can't continue with a losing strategy.

I guess not enjoyable is too strong of a word, I always enjoy playing tennis, I guess the better word is its mentaly draining and tough and alot of struggling compared to when ur game is on or your loose its just flying and going in 6th gear.
Click to expand...

You are going to run into fast guys who get a lot of balls back, all good players hit a lot of balls.

My advice is to get used to it. Be ready for 20 balls but if it only takes 2, great, but be ready for 20.

J
 
FiReFTW said:
On the contrary, I suspect alot of people here would be quite suprized at my level considering how long ive been playing.
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I've seen your videos and am certain that if you had taken to Tennis at an early age, you'd have had a chance to be a pretty high level player. You have an athletic build and a certain natural fluidity that can't be taught.

Dinking is fine. Grinding out matches is fine. There are high level players/even pros who play those styles. However, they are staying true to who they are. OTOH, if you are drastically changing your natural game or severely cutting down your swing speed against evenly matched opponents because you are afraid to go for shots, then admit to yourself that you are still a very low level player who has a long way to go.

You sarcastically mention that TT posters would rate you a 3.5 as if that evaluation would be an insult to you. Why? What's wrong with 3.5? Until you admit you are a low level player, you won't make changes to your technique which will allow you to hit out more confidently in matches against evenly matched opponents.
 
FiReFTW said:
Not necessarily, I don't mean it in that way.

I can play good, loose relaxed and hit great shots, but if opponent is good so can he, so I might not crush him, he might even win, but for me its a much easier type of game when I can really play my game.

But if something is off, or im tense (or if opponent is an extreme retreiver and defensive player) and can't play that way it becomes more of a battle, a grind, think more like Nadal type of grind and battle, and thats much more exhausting and mentaly draining and tough.

I prefer the 1st, but I guess most people would.
Click to expand...

I have improved on being able to attack more but I win most matches by playing a Nadal grinding style of play. If I’m playing a weaker player then I will attack much more, because they give up a lot of short balls and can’t cover the court as well.
But the better guys I play attack quicker than I do so I play more defensively. Now that I cover the court better I can usually withstand their attacking game enough that they will make too many errors. Plus I combine a lot of high topspin shots with slices and some drop shots. It’s not real pretty tennis but it’s effective.

I would love to be able to hit more aggressive shots right away and win points quickly, but other than those days when you can’t miss which are rare this style will not win many matches for me. So I stay with what works for my skill level which is grinding away. You have to be realistic and know your limitations.
 
J011yroger said:
You are going to run into fast guys who get a lot of balls back, all good players hit a lot of balls.

My advice is to get used to it. Be ready for 20 balls but if it only takes 2, great, but be ready for 20.

J
Click to expand...

Thats excellent advice!

Curious said:
Still you’re trying to win easily. You want to ‘play freely, swing freely’, win points with your winners rather than your opponent’s errors.
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I dont think about hitting winners, more about taking control of rallies and trying to force opponent into errors or short balls that can be then put away.

mcs1970 said:
I've seen your videos and am certain that if you had taken to Tennis at an early age, you'd have had a chance to be a pretty high level player. You have an athletic build and a certain natural fluidity that can't be taught.

Dinking is fine. Grinding out matches is fine. There are high level players/even pros who play those styles. However, they are staying true to who they are. OTOH, if you are drastically changing your natural game or severely cutting down your swing speed against evenly matched opponents because you are afraid to go for shots, then admit to yourself that you are still a very low level player who has a long way to go.

You sarcastically mention that TT posters would rate you a 3.5 as if that evaluation would be an insult to you. Why? What's wrong with 3.5? Until you admit you are a low level player, you won't make changes to your technique which will allow you to hit out more confidently in matches against evenly matched opponents.
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I really appreciate your praise alot.

Don't worry I know I have a TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON to improve and a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go, ive improved alot in the past year but im FAR FAAAAAAAR away from where I want to be.
 
tlm said:
I have improved on being able to attack more but I win most matches by playing a Nadal grinding style of play. If I’m playing a weaker player then I will attack much more, because they give up a lot of short balls and can’t cover the court as well.
But the better guys I play attack quicker than I do so I play more defensively. Now that I cover the court better I can usually withstand their attacking game enough that they will make too many errors. Plus I combine a lot of high topspin shots with slices and some drop shots. It’s not real pretty tennis but it’s effective.

I would love to be able to hit more aggressive shots right away and win points quickly, but other than those days when you can’t miss which are rare this style will not win many matches for me. So I stay with what works for my skill level which is grinding away. You have to be realistic and know your limitations.
Click to expand...

Any time someone describes their game as "I go for my shots, I don't play long points." I translate that into loser.

J
 
ubercat said:
Yeah it's funny even when you expect to lose it niggles. I played this other old guy a few times - good matches tuff but fair - good bloke. Inspirational really he s still playing in the A grade in his 60s.

I know I can beat him from BL. And my team had already won so I went on a suicide run. Net rushed to practice my crappy net game. He s very consistent and accurate so of course I got picked off. Still down on myself for losing. Need to kill that ego some more.
Click to expand...

I'd say bravo for recognizing a great opportunity to practice a weakness! I don't see why you'd be down on yourself for losing: you were using your weakness to go against his strength; I'd expect you to lose. But you picked up some good experience, right?
 
Yeah. He got me down the BH side DTL a few times. I learnt I need to hang back further from net. Then move fwd strongly once I ve identified the pass.

And full credit my approach shots were in the corner and he slices. So producing strong DTL passes and lobs is high level play.

Another learning was watching a high level player play this guy. He used a lot of angled gentle slices with side. Because they were soft with side they hardly bounced making passes very difficult.
 
Last edited:
FiReFTW said:
I was just saying that its not really enjoyable for me to play like that, I don't particularly enjoy it, its pretty frustrating to play that way but I know its needed sometimes.

And its mentaly exhausting aswell.
Click to expand...

Now you know how Safin felt against Santoro :-)
 
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