FINALLY, a journalist hits the nail on the head: Why is America so angry?

pmerk34

Legend
As I have said already, it was an embarassment and worse. The only, albiet still inadequate, explanation for not taking action would be if, there was a specific rule specifically prohibiting the making of racially charged remarks, and/or a "catch all" rule, such as "conduct detrimental to the game of tennis" in the Player's Code of Conduct in place at that time. I don't know.

However, introducing this sad episode as a comparison to the incident in question, is a red herring in this instance. Morally reprehensible acts do not in and of themselves violate Criminal statute. If a crime is committed and the motive for and there is probable cause to believe it was motivated by or intentionally targeted the victim or location because of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation it now, in NYS, elevates the particular Crime committed, to what is commonly refered to as a Bias Crime, "aggravating" the underlying crime and in general raising the degree and associated penalties/punishment on level, i.e. a B Misdemeanor to an A, and A Misdemeanor to an E Felony, E Felony to D, and so on. However, the underlying Criminal section must be violated.

As reprehensible as Hewitt's comments were, no matter how his words proved a window to his soul exposing his upbringing, character or rather, lack thereof for what it is, it MAY NOT have violated any existing rule pertaining to Player Conduct at that time and that MAY very have been the flimsy hook upon which the anemic “final verdict” regarding his conduct was hung. However, those comments did not violate any Law, no Crime, no Petty Offense. Hewitt’s opinion, though clearly motivated by hate is, to this day, protected by the over-riding right to Free Speech and Expression held so dear in this country as incomprehensible as the application of that axiom and who gets wrapped in the cloak of its protection may appear to be at times.

As such this being interjected into a conversation of Serena's conduct is at best apples and oranges, at worst, motivated by something, which smells of something similar to what you allude to in the opening words of your post. Assuredly, there are some voicing opinions on the matter motivated by varying degrees of hate, for Serena herself, or worse for her gender or race.

However even taking that into account, there is no comparison between Hewitt's and Serena's conduct, other than Hewitt's comments being directed at race and Serena being that race.





Unfortunately, these comments betray a lack of familiarity with the law, and are made either inadvertantly or intentionally in error.

a) the law violated while under the same Article, i.e., "Assault and Related Offenses" is not Assault but Menacing.

b) by remaining fixated on the term “Assault” it indicates that you have failed to understand the difference in the two sections of law and how “intent” applies to each.

Intent in Assault addresses the offender’s mental state as having CAUSED physical injury, serious physical injury or death to another person.

Intent in Menacing addresses the offender’s mental state having CAUSED another person reasonable fear of suffering physical injury, serious physical injury or death.

Menacing requires proof of the offender’s

INTENT TO INSTILL FEAR OF PHYSICAL INJURY IN THE MIND OF THE VICTIM

NOT THE OFFENDER'S INTENT TO CAUSE PHYSICAL INJURY.

PHYSICAL INJURY: The legal definition of Physical Injury as it defined and applies in NYS Penal Law is described in Article 10:



http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN010.00_10.00.html

Think of how minimal that standard is for a moment and then realize that the People’s burden of proof is limited to the intent to cause or ultimately carry out the threat to cause the physical injury, but merely the fear of it and you see the minimal standard of the statute.



The ONLY reason that it not being applied here is that the victim has, for reasons only she knows, elected not to make a complaint regarding the incident to Law Enforcement, at which time, by law and based on the available evidence, Law Enforcement would be compelled to act.

OTOH, without a willing complainant articulating fear, or a witness to the victim’s immediate outcry following the event willing to testify, it is impossible for Law Enforcement to act.

The legal precedent is that arrests are made and prosecutions pursued in every jurisdiction in NYS for violation of this section of law every day.

Your broad brush is dipped in ignorance of the Law and how it is applied.

Far from folly, it gets very real, very quickly for some people equally ignorant of this law as well as many others on the books. And this is not to say that Serena faced jail time. THAT is highly unlikely, and aside from Domestic Violence Cases, would be outside past practice as it applies to sentencing. In the end game she would most likely face anywhere from an A.C.O.D. to a fine to community service, like a lesson or two for a group of kids in Central Park before next year’s Open, predicated by a plea to a petty offense such as Disorderly Conduct.

What’s most disturbing about your post is your use of the phrase “nothing, of the sort occurred”.

I’ll repeat that for something to have occurred it required only that the linesperson express her fear resulting from the incident to law enforcement.

That she didn’t is the reason the offender not only owed the victim an apology but an expression of gratitude, before the first press release.

On another level words and phrases like “nothing of the sort occurred” and “pure folly” as they apply to the incident being discussed rings of a mindset nearing the bottom of a “slippery slope” which ends at “nothing happened at all”.

If you are about to dismiss my assertion on its face I would encourage you to seek the opinion of a qualified third party before doing so, then honestly and open-mindedly re-evaluate your position.

5

Serena isn't going to be charged with anything. Actions taken during sporting events rarely end up in court unless someone suffers serious bodily harm to due to a gross infraction.

The idea that Serena should or will be brought up on charges is absurd.
 

FiveO

Hall of Fame
Serena isn't going to be charged with anything. Actions taken during sporting events rarely end up in court unless someone suffers serious bodily harm to due to a gross infraction.

The idea that Serena should or will be brought up on charges is absurd.

I never used words like "should" or "will".

The point of the post, was directed at the opinion that she couldn't.

It clearly states that she "could", and that decision ultimately rested with the victim, the linesperson, who if she elected to be a willing complainant, Serena she "would" have faced the embarassment of having to appear in court regarding it.

5
 

pmerk34

Legend
I never used words like "should" or "will".

The point of the post, was directed at the opinion that she couldn't.

It clearly states that she "could", and that decision ultimately rested with the victim, the linesperson, who if she elected to be a willing complainant, Serena she "would" have faced the embarassment of having to appear in court regarding it.

5

And on a side note lawyers are ignorant of laws they don't specialize in. We are all ignorant of the law becuase there are thousands of them. It's no excuse of course and I suppose you are right but if that line judge did try to embarrass Serena with some complaint I think she would end up looking stupid not Serena
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
However, introducing this sad episode as a comparison to the incident in question, is a red herring in this instance.

Your would-be legal toss-in fails you. The Hewitt reference is wholly valid as means to compare the response and action to player conduct.


As reprehensible as Hewitt's comments were, no matter how his words proved a window to his soul exposing his upbringing, character or rather, lack thereof for what it is, it MAY NOT have violated any existing rule pertaining to Player Conduct at that time and that MAY very have been the flimsy hook upon which the anemic “final verdict” regarding his conduct was hung.

In using "may not," you have already admitted ignorance, so you do not have a reasonble basis to offer even a modest defense of the PTB's actions (rather, inactions) that day.

However even taking that into account, there is no comparison between Hewitt's and Serena's conduct, other than Hewitt's comments being directed at race and Serena being that race.

^ Easily rendered invalid by response #1.


Unfortunately, these comments betray a lack of familiarity with the law, and are made either inadvertantly or intentionally in error.

Don't even try it here, son. Your entire platform suffered from presumption, fabricated "evidence" and (at best) mind-reading coupled with wishful thinking about Serena's actions and intent, which I charge any other attorney in the nation to prove beyond all reasonable doubt.

by remaining fixated on the term “Assault” it indicates that you have failed to understand the difference in the two sections of law and how “intent” applies to each.

The failure is yours, and you reveal poor reading skills--the first skill required. Why? The many threads discussing the incident feature other members incessantly and erroneously referring to Serena's actions as "assualt." My use of the word is there only to inform the armchair Perry Masons that no assualt occured, nor was there intent. Missing this oft-repeated argument calls your entire, flaccid stand into serious question if not destroys it. (i'll get to that & related issues in forthcoming posts).

The ONLY reason that it not being applied here is that the victim has, for reasons only she knows, elected not to make a complaint regarding the incident to Law Enforcement, at which time, by law and based on the available evidence, Law Enforcement would be compelled to act.

OTOH, without a willing complainant articulating fear, or a witness to the victim’s immediate outcry following the event willing to testify, it is impossible for Law Enforcement to act.

She did not act because she knew she was in no real danger, as evidenced by her failure to immediately flee from the scene--which would have indicated a fear of actual bodily harm (or worse), and thus, sealed Serena's alleged guilt. That the former did not occur to any degree (with innumerable witnessess present), should have made it abundantly clear Sernea posed no physical danger to the recipient of her tirade, and as a result, no action would be taken (or suggested) in the wake of the incident.

Good Lord.

Once again, your pretend Mason act exposes your shocking, deliberate need to inject fantasy events into this situation in order to hold a nonexistent platform, which drives this home to....


I’ll repeat that for something to have occurred it required only that the linesperson express her fear resulting from the incident to law enforcement.

...and why, dear strpling, did she fail--after ample opportunity to do so? Because--as stated above--she realized she was not at risk for bodily harm. There goes the case for you--and all others of the local torch and pitchfork set.

That she didn’t is the reason the offender not only owed the victim an apology but an expression of gratitude, before the first press release.

Bottom line: human nature (the concept so alien to many posting on this board)--self reflection, consideration of events away from the event to make a sobersided judgement of effect of action taken are not on your imagined timer set "before the first press release."
 
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FiveO

Hall of Fame
Your would-be legal toss-in fails you. The Hewitt reference is wholly valid as means to compare the response and action to player conduct.




In using "may not," you have already admitted ignorance, so you do not have a reasonble basis to offer even a modest defense of the PTB's actions (rather, inactions) that day.



^ Easily rendered invalid by response #1.




Don't even try it here, son. Your entire platform suffered from presumption, fabricated "evidence" and (at best) mind-reading coupled with wishful thinking about Serena's actions and intent, which I charge any other attorney in the nation to prove beyond all reasonable doubt.



The failure is yours, and you reveal poor reading skills--the first skill required. Why? The many threads discussing the incident feature other members incessantly and erroneously referring to Serena's actions as "assualt." My use of the word is there only to inform the armchair Perry Masons that no assualt occured, nor was there intent. Missing this oft-repeated argument calls your entire, flaccid stand into serious question if not destroys it. (i'll get to that & related issues in forthcoming posts).



She did not act because she knew she was in no real danger, as evidenced by her failure to immediately flee from the scene--which would have indicated a fear of actual bodily harm (or worse), and thus, sealed Serena's alleged guilt. That the former did not occur to any degree (with innumerable witnessess present), should have made it abundantly clear Sernea posed no physical danger to the recipient of her tirade, and as a result, no action would be taken (or suggested) in the wake of the incident.

Good Lord.

Once again, your pretend Mason act exposes your shocking, deliberate need to inject fantasy events into this situation in order to hold a nonexistent platform, which drives this home to....




...and why, dear strpling, did she fail--after ample opportunity to do so? Because--as stated above--she realized she was not at risk for bodily harm. There goes the case for you--and all others of the local torch and pitchfork set.



Bottom line: human nature (the concept so alien to many posting on this board)--self reflection, consideration of events away from the event to make a sobersided judgement of effect of action taken are not on your imagined timer set "before the first press release."

With all due respect, I would respond were any of this even vaguely coherent. When you want to address anything of substance, debate fact, especially the 'fabricated evidence' you allude to, I'll be glad to engage. Until then, good luck with whatever happened here.

5
 

フェデラー

Hall of Fame
The awful moment itself is now being characterized as an "obscene tirade."

Duh? I dont think anyone called differently live. Whats with the "now"

It also fails to detail what she did, playing it off.

Should email that guys boss and complain about his lack journalism and race baiting.

He mentions the guy calling obama a liar (which he is) more than serena physically threatening the lineslady.

Terrible, 1 star

you do know joe wilson is an outright racist and is part of many white supremacist groups right?
 

Antonio Puente

Hall of Fame
Only in America could Serena act in the manner she did, threaten an older lady twice her age and half her size, and then in a mere day or so later, be made out to be the victim. Do you realize how screwed up that looks? This type of enabling is precisely why America is turning into the ugly society it is. No one is responsible for anything they do.
 

tennis_hand

Hall of Fame
American society is about individualism.
Its media promotes it. Its society promotes it. and its every corner smells it.

Maybe this is what the politicians always called "democracy" on TV.
 

OJ ROD

Semi-Pro
Indeed; I am surprised how much support he has in this thread. A bit disquieting.

Because the ''oppressed" have misused the acknoledgement of the tiranny that once was to the point that nobody cares. To the point that now we just refer to it as using the 'race card'. In my experience most people use it to get away with doing whatever they want from some ridiculous belief that anybody owes them anything. This generation, young ones coming up I mean, don't really have a sense of what true racism is. They have a sense that the concept of racism can be used to get what they want. Not need, want.

The fight for civil rights was meant to gain an ackwoledgement of the situation at the time, so that it could be used by those who needed it to level the playing field to fair ground, not as a cop out to fulfill the lust for domination and/or power.
 
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dParis

Hall of Fame
The awful moment itself is now being characterized as an "obscene tirade."

Duh? I dont think anyone called differently live. Whats with the "now"

It also fails to detail what she did, playing it off.

Should email that guys boss and complain about his lack journalism and race baiting.

He mentions the guy calling obama a liar (which he is) more than serena physically threatening the lineslady.

Terrible, 1 star
Spot on analysis.
you do know joe wilson is an outright racist and is part of many white supremacist groups right?
Why you quote chadwixx's post before your pointless blurb is beyond me. Even if you are understating Wilson's racist proclivity, how does that refute or make any less truthful chadwixx's post? Red herring anyone?
Indeed; I am surprised how much support he has in this thread. A bit disquieting.
I don't think what is on record in this thread amounts to much, if any personal support for Joe Wilson. Most conservatives have been critical of the nature of his outburst during the President's healthcare speech. It's just that there are many people who agree with Wilson on the point that Obama is purposely misleading when it comes to illegals access to healthcare. Much of the public is wary of the (over)reaction of the press and the leadership of the House of Representatives regarding the incident.

Strange that anyone would find the reaction here disquieting, racist or hateful.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
Strange that anyone would find the reaction here disquieting, racist or hateful.
It's called 'misdirection'. The president is trying, just like Bill and Hillary, to jam a government run health care system down the throats of the public that by all polls, they don't want. Playing the Race Card takes the focus off this unfortunate truth.

And in Serena's case, look at how her defenders on this board want to talk about everything BUT her actions - and then her pathetic attempts at 'apologizing' afterward. "JMac this, Hewitt that, Joe Wilson is a member of hate groups,... etc"
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
It's called 'misdirection'. The president is trying, just like Bill and Hillary, to jam a government run health care system down the throats of the public that by all polls, they don't want. Playing the Race Card takes the focus off this unfortunate truth.

And in Serena's case, look at how her defenders on this board want to talk about everything BUT her actions - and then her pathetic attempts at 'apologizing' afterward. "JMac this, Hewitt that, Joe Wilson is a member of hate groups,... etc"

Actually 70% of the public wants health care reform and supports a public option.

Unfortuantely, what you don't seem to realize is that democrats like republicans are bought and paid for by corporate interests and that is where their loyalty lies.

President Obama and the Democrat controlled congress has no more intention of implementing a single-payer health care system than President George Bush and the Republican controlled congress did because it does not benefit big business.

And the reaction on this messageboard that I have been reading over the last couple of days has been hateful at times, racist at times, and downright shocking and most of all hypocritical at other times.

Such disproportionate nastiness directed toward a tennis player for goodness sake.
 

Baikalic

Semi-Pro
Spot on analysis.

Why you quote chadwixx's post before your pointless blurb is beyond me. Even if you are understating Wilson's racist proclivity, how does that refute or make any less truthful chadwixx's post? Red herring anyone?

I don't think what is on record in this thread amounts to much, if any personal support for Joe Wilson. Most conservatives have been critical of the nature of his outburst during the President's healthcare speech. It's just that there are many people who agree with Wilson on the point that Obama is purposely misleading when it comes to illegals access to healthcare. Much of the public is wary of the (over)reaction of the press and the leadership of the House of Representatives regarding the incident.

Strange that anyone would find the reaction here disquieting, racist or hateful.

You misunderstood my point; regardless of whether Obama is purposely misleading (which he may well be), what the article is referencing, is the manner in which Wilson accused the President of lying. The article implies that Wilson's behavior was not appropriate, that he violated traditional rules of locution by interrupting another individual in a disruptive manner.

What I find "disquieting" is not that people believe the President is lying and Joe Wilson was correct to call him on it; it is that people believe the manner in which he expressed himself was acceptable, or even favorable.
 

pabletion

Hall of Fame
Personally, I wouldve completely moved on about the incident, wether I like Serena or not (I dont like her, for the record) if she went to that press conference, following the match and had shown the slightest remorse about the whole situation, and not stating that she hadnt really thought about apologyzing just yet (paraphrazing), at the moment of the incident, trying tu justify her actions because 'a lot of people have said a lot worse', and because, apparently, she has to take more than a day after an ugly incident like that to "apologyze", because some PR person, her manager or whomever convinced her, it was the action she had to take.

that is what irritated me the most, her complete lack of humbleness and the way she behaves like she owes nothing no anybody, because she grew up in a bad neighborhood and with low resources, now she gets to do what she wants. Racism? Thats got nothing to do with it, at least for me. Theres absolutely nothing better than to see underprivileged children grow up and be accomplished athletes, but sadly, a lot of these athletes dont show appreciation for the life they now have, and instead theyre the complete opposite of humble persons.
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
What I find "disquieting" is not that people believe the President is lying and Joe Wilson was correct to call him on it; it is that people believe the manner in which he expressed himself was acceptable, or even favorable.

Because boorish behavior is okay if you agree with the boor.
 

dParis

Hall of Fame
I notice a lot of people on the boards, either for reasons of not having access to the information available or simple willful ignorance, don't seem to acknowledge that conservatives in this forum and the public at large have roundly criticized Wilson for the nature of his outburst and that Wilson apologized to the President for his actions. Conservatives have accepted the apology and have moved on , Obama himself has accepted the apology and moved on; the only people that can't seem to let it go are fanatical liberals and the circus-loving media.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
With all due respect, I would respond were any of this even vaguely coherent. When you want to address anything of substance, debate fact, especially the 'fabricated evidence' you allude to, I'll be glad to engage. Until then, good luck with whatever happened here.

5

You cannot, as the very heart of your less than impressive rant was based on inferior comprehension skills (you charging the wrong person with describing Serena's act as "assault" and building your non-arguement based on that--when the argument was against it all along). There is no case here, as proven days ago, so any continued,illogical noise will not aid you.
 

JankovicFan

Semi-Pro
Serena isn't going to be charged with anything. Actions taken during sporting events rarely end up in court unless someone suffers serious bodily harm to due to a gross infraction.

The idea that Serena should or will be brought up on charges is absurd.
However, it is a problem when millions are watching, cameras are rolling, and microphones pickup every whisper. Other incidents slipping by could just be a matter of a low profile and choosing not to file charges. When it becomes an issue of what precedent it sets for young people in general or for players (or congressmen) who might take note of what new boundaries have been probed, then it gets attention, and an example needs to be made of what is considered right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable, real or superficial consequences.
 
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pmerk34

Legend
However, it is a problem when millions are watching, cameras are rolling, and microphones pickup every whisper. Other incidents slipping by could just be a matter of a low profile and choosing not to file charges. When it becomes an issue of what precedent it sets for young people in general or for players (or congressmen) who might take note of what new boundaries have been probed, then it gets attention, and an example needs to be made of what is considered right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable, real or superficial consequences.

She isn't going to be charged with a crime.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Only in America could Serena act in the manner she did, threaten an older lady twice her age and half her size, and then in a mere day or so later, be made out to be the victim. Do you realize how screwed up that looks? This type of enabling is precisely why America is turning into the ugly society it is. No one is responsible for anything they do.

You can leave your 'ugly insults' about America at the door. The very fact that these discussions can and do take place is certainly a positive and shows the great ability of Americans to improve our society. The conversations and actions may get ugly at times but progress often requires a little, if not alot of, unrest.

I dare say no national racial minority will become president or prime minister of any European nation anytime soon.

Let me know when a French person of North African descent or a British of Pakistani descent will come to be their nation's political leader?

So take the boulder out of your 'EU' eye, before you worry about the pebble in America's.

Of course assuming you are European!
 

JankovicFan

Semi-Pro
She isn't going to be charged with a crime.
That's the "will be" part, not the "should be". If it was going to happen, one would expect it would have happened by now. I think it was probably all a done deal, when the WS were cleared to play doubles. I just think there should be more to it, given time for complete consideration. I think we know any suspension decision will take time. The ITF chief said so in a televised interview ("...weeks").
 

Annika

Semi-Pro
Americans are NOT angry. Only ones angry or annoyed are the Serena lovers, who were also disappointed with her behavior.
 
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