First NTRP tournament, didn't have an NTRP rating

[DeeeFoo]

So I signed up for my very first NTRP tournament, after years of just playing recreational (I did play for my high school back then, but nothing competitive after that) . I never really understood the whole NTRP system before, and due to my having no history with NTRP, I didn't have an NTRP rating. The tournament didn't let me register until I had one, so I used the official self-rating questionnaire offered on the USTA website to get my rating, as per their suggestion. The questions on the questionnaire seemed kinda vague, but I answered them all truthfully. In the end, it assigned me a rating of 4.0, and now my USTA profile says 4.0. Therefore, I signed up for the 4.0 singles category of this tournament.

Will this be okay? Since the questions on the questionnaire were so vague, I felt like it didn't do a good job of assigning me a rating. But since this is my first tournament and I had no knowledge of NTRP beforehand, I'll go with the rating that the USTA's official tool gave to me. I'm mainly concerned about if during the actual tournament, the tournament organizers or opponents see my performance/scores and think that I shouldn't be in 4.0, either because I'm not good enough, or maybe because I'm too good (could go either way). If that turned out to be the case, are there any penalties? Is there anything to be concerned about, or am I thinking too much? Thanks!

 

[CosmosMpower]

You messed up, if you've never played competitive tennis you'll probably get wrecked in 4.0. Shoulda done 3.0 and worked your way up.

 

[DeeeFoo]

You messed up, if you've never played competitive tennis you'll probably get wrecked in 4.0. Shoulda done 3.0 and worked your way up.

I did play for my high school team, but that was at least 10 years ago. It was actually one of the questions on the questionnaire. After high school though, nothing but recreational tennis.

 

[CosmosMpower]

I did play for my high school team, but that was at least 10 years ago. It was actually one of the questions on the questionnaire. After high school though, nothing but recreational tennis.

What level high school tennis? How competitive were you? Just local team participation type tennis or did you advance to district/state playoffs type deal? What level recreational tennis, any idea what your playing partners would rate as far as NTRP or UTR?

 

[DeeeFoo]

What level high school tennis? How competitive were you? Just local team participation type tennis or did you advance to district/state playoffs type deal? What level recreational tennis, any idea what your playing partners would rate as far as NTRP or UTR?

Played doubles for varsity tennis for 3 years. I think our school was pretty competitive, they played CIF every year, but never won. Recreational tennis is kinda high level, one of my hitting partners is a teammate from high school. He's really good, I think he told me he plays 4.5.

 

[CosmosMpower]

Played doubles for varsity tennis for 3 years. I think our school was pretty competitive, they played CIF every year, but never won. Recreational tennis is kinda high level, one of my hitting partners is a teammate from high school. He's really good, I think he told me he plays 4.5.

Look up his name on tennis record or UTR and see what level he is. That would be a good baseline. Also keep in mind hitting and playing competitive matches are 2 different things.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Lol Cosmos, don't freak him out, you should be ok DeeeFoo, post your results for fun.

 

[DeeeFoo]

Look up his name on tennis record or UTR and see what level he is. That would be a good baseline. Also keep in mind hitting and playing competitive matches are 2 different things.

It says unrated. I guess he hasn't been playing for a while. And thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

Lol Cosmos, don't freak him out, you should be ok DeeeFoo, post your results for fun.

Thanks! I'll do that

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

So I signed up for my very first NTRP tournament, after years of just playing recreational (I did play for my high school back then, but nothing competitive after that) . I never really understood the whole NTRP system before, and due to my having no history with NTRP, I didn't have an NTRP rating. The tournament didn't let me register until I had one, so I used the official self-rating questionnaire offered on the USTA website to get my rating, as per their suggestion. The questions on the questionnaire seemed kinda vague, but I answered them all truthfully. In the end, it assigned me a rating of 4.0, and now my USTA profile says 4.0. Therefore, I signed up for the 4.0 singles category of this tournament.

Will this be okay? Since the questions on the questionnaire were so vague, I felt like it didn't do a good job of assigning me a rating. But since this is my first tournament and I had no knowledge of NTRP beforehand, I'll go with the rating that the USTA's official tool gave to me. I'm mainly concerned about if during the actual tournament, the tournament organizers or opponents see my performance/scores and think that I shouldn't be in 4.0, either because I'm not good enough, or maybe because I'm too good (could go either way). If that turned out to be the case, are there any penalties? Is there anything to be concerned about, or am I thinking too much? Thanks!

Look on YouTube for 4.0 tennis so you can at least get an idea of what the level is like. Ignore those that say "playoffs" or "Sectionals" or "Nationals" because those guys are likely 4.5. Even better, pay more attention to the loser: the poster of the video tends to be the winner which can skew your perception.

Watch 3.5 also.

And you can always appeal downward if 4.0 is too high although I think the success rate of such appeals is low.

Not having seen you play, I would have suggested 3.5 also. Of course, that risks under-rating yourself, destroying your opponents, and being accused of sandbagging.

So just play and let the ratings chips fall where they may.

 

[travlerajm]

The average level in a 4.0 tournament will generally be equivalent to 3.5 average league level.

Just enjoy the competition and see where you land. If it turns out you’re not in the right level, you will will get bumped quickly within a few matches anyway.

 

[schmke]

If it turns out you’re not in the right level, you will will get bumped quickly within a few matches anyway.

Well, not exactly. Someone playing tournaments will generally get a year-end T rating, but there is no dynamic rating or strikes/DQs for tournament players. So they aren't going to get bumped up until December.

 

[DeeeFoo]

Look on YouTube for 4.0 tennis so you can at least get an idea of what the level is like. Ignore those that say "playoffs" or "Sectionals" or "Nationals" because those guys are likely 4.5. Even better, pay more attention to the loser: the poster of the video tends to be the winner which can skew your perception.

Watch 3.5 also.

And you can always appeal downward if 4.0 is too high although I think the success rate of such appeals is low.

Not having seen you play, I would have suggested 3.5 also. Of course, that risks under-rating yourself, destroying your opponents, and being accused of sandbagging.

So just play and let the ratings chips fall where they may.

I've watched a few videos on Youtube, but it seems like what's considered a 4.0 level is extremely diverse. Some of them look super good, while some look just average. So far, the only official reference that I have right now is the rating that the USTA questionnaire assigned to me, and that's the rating I used when registering for the tournament.

Sandbagging is when you intentionally register for a tournament lower than your rating right? For example, a 4.5 person signing up for a 4.0 tournament.

 

[CosmosMpower]

I've watched a few videos on Youtube, but it seems like what's considered a 4.0 level is extremely diverse. Some of them look super good, while some look just average. So far, the only official reference that I have right now is the rating that the USTA questionnaire assigned to me, and that's the rating I used when registering for the tournament.

Sandbagging is when you intentionally register for a tournament lower than your rating right? For example, a 4.5 person signing up for a 4.0 tournament.

Lots of ways to play tennis, seen some guys with beautiful strokes that can't hit the ball over the net 3 times in a row and guys with hideous strokes that you can't get a ball past.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I've watched a few videos on Youtube, but it seems like what's considered a 4.0 level is extremely diverse. Some of them look super good, while some look just average. So far, the only official reference that I have right now is the rating that the USTA questionnaire assigned to me, and that's the rating I used when registering for the tournament.

Yeah, there's no "one size fits all". Throw out the outliers [very good and very bad] and you should see if you fit in.

Sandbagging is when you intentionally register for a tournament lower than your rating right? For example, a 4.5 person signing up for a 4.0 tournament.

Not quite. SBing is when you rate yourself lower than your true level. So if you were in actuality a 4.0 in strength but you registered into USTA for and NTRP 3.0. Or you enter a non-USTA/UTR tournament and claim you're an intermediate player when you played on the Davis Cup team for your country. Or deliberately losing games to avoid getting bumped up.

If your NTRP was 4.5, you would not be allowed to sign up for the 4.0 division.

 

[DeeeFoo]

Yeah, there's no "one size fits all". Throw out the outliers [very good and very bad] and you should see if you fit in.



Not quite. SBing is when you rate yourself lower than your true level. So if you were in actuality a 4.0 in strength but you registered into USTA for and NTRP 3.0. Or you enter a non-USTA/UTR tournament and claim you're an intermediate player when you played on the Davis Cup team for your country. Or deliberately losing games to avoid getting bumped up.

If your NTRP was 4.5, you would not be allowed to sign up for the 4.0 division.

Ahh I see. How does one rate oneself? I thought the rating is assigned to you by the USTA? For example, I used their official rating questionnaire, and it spit out a rating that is now on my profile.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Ahh I see. How does one rate oneself? I thought the rating is assigned to you by the USTA? For example, I used their official rating questionnaire, and it spit out a rating that is now on my profile.

That's what I meant. But you could lie on the questionnaire and get a lower rating.

 

[DeeeFoo]

That's what I meant. But you could lie on the questionnaire and get a lower rating.

Oh, so that's what you meant. I didn't see any point in fudging the questionnaire, so I just answered everything normally.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Oh, so that's what you meant. I didn't see any point in fudging the questionnaire, so I just answered everything normally.

And the vast majority do exactly the same thing [I actually got a rating I knew was too low and had to appeal up <successfully>].

But there are some who would rather win at a level that's obviously too low for them rather than face stiffer competition at a higher, more appropriate level.

Note also that the rating assigned as a result of the questionnaire is a minimum, not necessarily the correct rating.

 

[LOBALOT]

I am sure there are multiple team captains out here and we see it all time. Players that have not played "since high school where we were really good" over-estimate their ability and self rate at too high a level. Luckily in most cases, our district will pull you down if it is apparent to you that you messed up and let them know even after you play a match. Hopefully yours does the same if you find there is an issue after you play.

 

[srimes]

There's no way for us to know how good you are. You can talk to people who know how you play and ask what they think. Or just play the tournament and see how you do, and adjust for the next one if you're way off.

 

[DeeeFoo]

There's no way for us to know how good you are. You can talk to people who know how you play and ask what they think. Or just play the tournament and see how you do, and adjust for the next one if you're way off.

Thanks for the tips. Will I get in any trouble if I'm way off in either direction?

 

[travlerajm]

Will I get in any trouble if I'm way off in either direction?

No.

 

[GrassCourtFan]

Thanks for the tips. Will I get in any trouble if I'm way off in either direction?

Nope.

If you are way better than 4.0, then you'll win easily and after a few matches you might get DQed/bumped up. Will be kind of annoying because it feels bad to be told "your results don't count and are reversed", but, well, then you'll know and will be at the right level. There's no "trouble" besides that.

If you're way worse than 4.0, then you'll get trounced, and then you'll know. (Though take a look at the results of the player who trounced you - you never know if *they* were the one out of level!) You'll have to look at what the process is to appeal down.

 

[DeeeFoo]

Nope.

If you are way better than 4.0, then you'll win easily and after a few matches you might get DQed/bumped up. Will be kind of annoying because it feels bad to be told "your results don't count and are reversed", but, well, then you'll know and will be at the right level. There's no "trouble" besides that.

If you're way worse than 4.0, then you'll get trounced, and then you'll know. (Though take a look at the results of the player who trounced you - you never know if *they* were the one out of level!) You'll have to look at what the process is to appeal down.

I see. Thanks for the info! Hopefully I can fit in with 4.0 and not have to run into any issues.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I see. Thanks for the info! Hopefully I can fit in with 4.0 and not have to run into any issues.

You're fine: it's an imperfect system and you self-rated in good faith. If the initial rating is wrong, it can be adjusted.

 

[DeeeFoo]

Just an update: I got past my first round! I won 6-3, 6-1. I had a bit of a slow start, but after a while started to find my groove. I normally play at nighttime, so playing under the sun is a completely different beast. I was completely exhausted by the time we finished.

My next opponent double-bagled his first round opponent, so looks like I've got a tough match tomorrow.

 

[CosmosMpower]

Look up your first opponents utr and post it

 

[DeeeFoo]

Look up your first opponents utr and post it

It says unrated. We chatted a bit today before and after the match, and he did mention that this is his first tournament in a long time.

 

[DeeeFoo]

Another update: Lost in the second round yesterday, 6-0 6-3. Had a fun time, opponents were all super friendly, and the guy who beat me went on to win the whole tournament. The good thing is I didn't cramp or get any kind of injuries while playing, so that's nice. I've also learned a few things about myself from this tournament.

1. I learned that I take a really long time to warm up/get into the groove. In the first set where I got bageled, I was missing all my shots that I normally don't miss. Once the second set started, I began to get a feel for things, which is how I managed to get 3 games.

2. My fitness/stamina is absolute doodoo. Playing under the sun further exacerbated this problem (I normally play in evening). I was playing better in the second set since I was going for my shots and they were going in, but I was already completely gassed at this point.

3. Playing in the day feels somehow different than at evening. Everything feels slower to me. I move slower, my shots feel slower, opponents' shots look slower, and I react slower.

I had some friendly chatting with my opponent, and he told me he used to play D3 in college (50yo now). After observing my game, he said that he thinks the both of us are closer to 4.5.