Fixed draws or rigged draws

How should the draws be made ?

  • Let the tournaments fix them as they see fit

    Votes: 10 10.9%

  • Have fixed playoffs (#1 vs #4 and #2 vs #3 OR #1 vs #3 and #2 vs #4))

    Votes: 36 39.1%

  • Continue to pretend they are random but secretly rig them

    Votes: 23 25.0%

  • I don't care as long as my favorite player gets cakewalk draws

    Votes: 23 25.0%
  • Total voters
    92
sbengte

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
On several threads now, there is ongoing talk of draws being rigged. What has sparked the current debate is how ever since Nadal came back on tour at #5, he has always landed in Federer/Ferrer's quarter and NEVER in Djokovic's quarter or even half. It will be interesting to see if the trend continues through Rome and RG.

Even in the past, certain draw patterns have sparked off debates on draw rigging (Federer - Djokovic drawing each other almost always at slams) and though there are enough reasons to believe draws are not always random, there is no proof for the supposed rigging either.

Some posters have said it is fair that the tournament organizers ensure that what they perceive as the "best match" is saved for the last by tampering with the randomness of draws (i.e having Djokovic and Nadal in opposite halves, irrespective of their seeding).

Another suggestion is to just let the tournaments fix the draws as they see fit and doing away with the false premise of them being random.

A third option is to have the playoffs fixed as in some other sports, i.e #1 plays #3 and #2 plays #4. We may repeatedly have the same matchups but it is is preferable to having the gullible audience believe something is a matter of pure chance while it is not.

Since there is no way to ensure every draw is 100% random, which of the alternatives above would you prefer ?
-----------------

UPDATED : Here are some of the past threads where draw rigging and the probabilities of some strange draw patterns happening with non-tampered draws were debated.

Why does Djokovic always draw Federer

Serbian Newspaper: ITF is fixing draws against Djokovic ?]

One of the best posts I have read in the above thread explaining why Fed and Djoker switching rankings is NOT a valid reason for them drawing each other all the time :

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=6084366&postcount=464

Breakdown of Fed Djoker draws since 2008 when they both played as top 4 with 50-50 chance of drawing each other :

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...al-draw-at-majors.625097/page-2#post-12659068
 
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Aren't the draws sort of done in an open audience, picking names out of a box or sack.?

I do remember a couple years back when one slam came out with the draw. For the top 2 or 4 players. And then all of a sudden they switched the names !

I had taken a screenshot of it and posted it. I think it was Wimbledon.
 
As long as ralpha gets easy draws I am not concerned.I hope he gets fed all the time,.he should just keep on working on his H2h,,I hope he ends with something 30-10...
 
Having fixed playoffs may create the problem of players trying to keep their ranking DOWN in certain occasions, to avoid hard draws in up coming majors.
 
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MonkeyBoy said:
Having fixed playoffs may create of the problem of players trying to keep their ranking DOWN in certain occasions, to avoid hard draws in up coming majors.
Click to expand...

Yes, I thought of that too. I don't think a player will let go of a title by tanking a match in order to get a favorable ranking/draw for the following tournaments since he is still not guaranteed a specific ranking by doing so. It will also depend on the other players' performances and they too switch places in rankings, hence tanking may backfire in certain cases.
 
Sentinel said:
Aren't the draws sort of done in an open audience, picking names out of a box or sack.?
Click to expand...

They do only a part of it in public and the rest is supposed to be randomly drawn by the computer. I am not aware of the specifics and can't tell how much of it is really transparent. I don't recall seeing a draw ceremony video which proves beyond doubt that the whole process is indeed random. Anyone who knows better can throw some light here.

I do remember a couple years back when one slam came out with the draw. For the top 2 or 4 players. And then all of a sudden they switched the names !I had taken a screenshot of it and posted it. I think it was Wimbledon.
Click to expand...

Right. IIRC, they switched a Fed-Murray semi to a Fed-Djoker semi. Also Mahut-Isner drawing each other in R2 the year following their epic at Wimbledon got people talking.
 
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I'd keep it the way it is at the moment though I would make sure the finalists of last year are not in the same half. At least they have a fair chance to defend their points then.
 
I would say do the draws as they do now, except when the number is drawn out of the cup they should show it to the audience in attendance and the cameras if there are any. Then we will know they aren't rigged. Now that's assuming the player drawing the number isn't in on the scam and can't somehow pick out a particular number, by feel. But they couldn't allow it to get out so the players couldn't be involved. That would be too risky.
 
Sentinel said:
Aren't the draws sort of done in an open audience, picking names out of a box or sack.?

I do remember a couple years back when one slam came out with the draw. For the top 2 or 4 players. And then all of a sudden they switched the names !

I had taken a screenshot of it and posted it. I think it was Wimbledon.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? And they didn't correct it? Well there you go.. Living breathing proof.
 
Sentinel said:
Aren't the draws sort of done in an open audience, picking names out of a box or sack.?

I do remember a couple years back when one slam came out with the draw. For the top 2 or 4 players. And then all of a sudden they switched the names !

I had taken a screenshot of it and posted it. I think it was Wimbledon.
Click to expand...

I think the official Wimbledon Twitter feed announced that Federer and Nadal would be in the same half, and Djokovic and Murray in the other. During the draw thread here at the time, several people, most notably zagor, declared that this announcement would turn out to be a "mistake" and we'd get the usual arrangement. Sure enough, it was quickly corrected and the top four took their usual positions.
 
mariecon said:
Are you kidding? And they didn't correct it? Well there you go.. Living breathing proof.
Click to expand...

Yea, someone actually posted a screen shot of that!! Then there was that US open draw in the 90's that screwed Kafelnikov and helped the Americans and was said tk be for viewer pleasure.
 
veroniquem said:
This thread is gonna look silly if Rafa is drawn with Novak in Rome and RG...
Click to expand...

Good luck with that. I can actually see Djokovic being put with Nadal in one half so the whole case is less suspicious but it's a certainty Nadal will be in the other half than Djokovic at the FO.
 
tennis_pro said:
Good luck with that. I can actually see Djokovic being put with Nadal in one half so the whole case is less suspicious but it's a certainty Nadal will be in the other half than Djokovic at the FO.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same. They might sacrifice Rome to the Federer altar, after all he's never won it. Maybe this will be his year, at least to make the final. But at RG for sure Federer and Nadal will be opposite Djokovic. Unless of course Fed falls to #3 and Nadal gets back to #4 (which I'm secretly hoping).
 
MonkeyBoy said:
Having fixed playoffs may create of the problem of players trying to keep their ranking DOWN in certain occasions, to avoid hard draws in up coming majors.
Click to expand...

That could happen, but more of a problem for me would be that with a fairly constant top 4, you'd get the exact same pairings in the semis for tournament after tournament, which would get very dull.
 
*Sparkle* said:
That could happen, but more of a problem for me would be that with a fairly constant top 4, you'd get the exact same pairings in the semis for tournament after tournament, which would get very dull.
Click to expand...

But there are often upsets. The top 4 don't always make it to the SFs.
 
tennis_pro said:
Good luck with that. I can actually see Djokovic being put with Nadal in one half so the whole case is less suspicious but it's a certainty Nadal will be in the other half than Djokovic at the FO.
Click to expand...

and you'll be betting the house on that, correct?...i mean you won't have to work for a living...just travel the world watching rigged tennis tournaments
 
veroniquem said:
This thread is gonna look silly if Rafa is drawn with Novak in Rome and RG...
Click to expand...

most likely will happen...and then a new conspiracy will be born...btw, remember when the complaint was novak kept getting fed in the semis and now its most often fed and nadal, so no conspiracy there anymore
 
When Mahut-Isner get drawn together I wonder.

Rosol and nad at Wimbly this year? That would also be suspect if it happened
 
marc45 said:
most likely will happen...and then a new conspiracy will be born...btw, remember when the complaint was novak kept getting fed in the semis and now its most often fed and nadal, so no conspiracy there anymore
Click to expand...

Because now the "dream" matchup it Djokodal, whereas before it was Fedal. So yeah, things change and TD's want the best matchup in their final and will do whatever is necessary to make that happen .
 
mariecon said:
I was thinking the same. They might sacrifice Rome to the Federer altar, after all he's never won it. Maybe this will be his year, at least to make the final. But at RG for sure Federer and Nadal will be opposite Djokovic. Unless of course Fed falls to #3 and Nadal gets back to #4 (which I'm secretly hoping).
Click to expand...


So if Nadal is drawn with Federer then that's because it is rigged. Otherwise is rigged too but they just try to pretend. Love this logic.

The same about doping. If Rafa doesnt speak up...it is because he is involved. But if he condemns the court's decision and ask for the names to be published, then he is just pretending.

Oh god, so many t a r d s!!!
 
marc45 said:
and you'll be betting the house on that, correct?...i mean you won't have to work for a living...just travel the world watching rigged tennis tournaments
Click to expand...

Show me a site when I can bet on Nadal landing in a particular section of the draw for the FO and I'll bet some cash right now.
 
Sorana fan said:
So if Nadal is drawn with Federer then that's because it is rigged. Otherwise is rigged too but they just try to pretend. Love this logic.

The same about doping. If Rafa doesnt speak up...it is because he is involved. But if he condemns the court's decision and ask for the names to be published, then he is just pretending.

Oh god, so many t a r d s!!!
Click to expand...

Cry me a river. It's Federer who's suffering all the time with his paethetic draws all the time, not Nadal.

Back in the day Djokovic was in Federer's half in slams. 13 out of 14 times at one point I think.

Nadal was injured for 7 months. Where did Murray land in the draw most of the time? In Federer's.

Now he's back. Where's Nadal in the draw? As far from Djokovic as possible.
 
Sorana fan said:
So if Nadal is drawn with Federer then that's because it is rigged. Otherwise is rigged too but they just try to pretend. Love this logic.

The same about doping. If Rafa doesnt speak up...it is because he is involved. But if he condemns the court's decision and ask for the names to be published, then he is just pretending.

Oh god, so many t a r d s!!!
Click to expand...

This makes zero sense. Where did I say anything like this? If Fed is #3 and Nadal is #4 they can't possibly be drawn in the same half. Duh! Do you know anything about how the draws work?
 
tennis_pro said:
It's Federer who's suffering all the time with his paethetic draws all the time, not Nadal.
Click to expand...

Lately Federer is lucky because is NOT being drawn with #1
When was the last time he was drawn in an important tournament in Djoko's half?

The problem for Federer is that nowadays almost ANYONE is a bad matchup for him: everyone is beating him in these days.

I know fedt*rds would love him playing only tipsa, ferrer and gasquet but lets face it: they wont be in the last rounds, so your guy is gonna get spanked no matter what the draw is
 
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mariecon said:
This makes zero sense. Where did I say anything like this? If Fed is #3 and Nadal is #4 they can't possibly be drawn in the same half. Duh! Do you know anything about how the draws work?
Click to expand...

AFAIK Nadal is and will be #5 at least until RG finishes
 
Sorana fan said:
Lately Federer is lucky because is NOT being drawn with #1
When was the last time he was drawn in an important tournament in Djoko's half?

The problem for Federer is that nowadays almost ANYONE is a bad matchup for him: everyone is beating him in these days.

I know fedt*rds would love him playing tipsa, ferrer, gasquet but lets face it: they wont be in the last rounds, so your guy is gonna get spanked no matter what the draw is
Click to expand...

FEDERER IS #2. HE CAN'T BE DRAWN IN THE SAME HALF AS #1. LUCK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. LEARN HOW THE DRAWS WORK BEFORE YOU POST!!!!!!
 
Sorana fan said:
Behave and write properly, please.

He is #2 just now, but has been #3 as of late.
Click to expand...

when was that? He was #3 for three weeks and he wasn't even playing a tournament (which is why he fell to #3). Which draw are you referring to there? Table tennis against one of the twins? :lol:

The last time Fed was #3 before that (when it actually mattered for a real draw) was June 2012 before Wimbledon. Would you call that lately? And he was in Djoker's half at Wimbledon. He was also in Djoker's half at RG and Rome ...should I go on?
 
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Sorana fan said:
Lately Federer is lucky because is NOT being drawn with #1
When was the last time he was drawn in an important tournament in Djoko's half?

The problem for Federer is that nowadays almost ANYONE is a bad matchup for him: everyone is beating him in these days.

I know fedt*rds would love him playing only tipsa, ferrer and gasquet but lets face it: they wont be in the last rounds, so your guy is gonna get spanked no matter what the draw is
Click to expand...

I just checked about Federer seeding and yes, I was wrong, he couldnt draw Djoko because being #2. Anyway, the second and third paragraphs still apply.

And from now on, Federer will be #3 and eventually #4 (if he is lucky and delpo doesnt step up), so I expect him to draw Djoko often....then many of you will start complaining again about his draws...

You need to realise the problem for him arent the draws, the problem is your guy is not anymore the same guy it once was. You cant win majors just beating tipsarevic. Father time has caught up with Roger. That's it.
 
Sorana fan said:
Lately Federer is lucky because is NOT being drawn with #1
When was the last time he was drawn in an important tournament in Djoko's half?

The problem for Federer is that nowadays almost ANYONE is a bad matchup for him: everyone is beating him in these days.

I know fedt*rds would love him playing only tipsa, ferrer and gasquet but lets face it: they wont be in the last rounds, so your guy is gonna get spanked no matter what the draw is
Click to expand...

How can Federer be drawn with Djokovic when the 2 have been ranked 1st and 2nd since Wimbledon 2012 (bar a few weeks when Murray got to no 2 but it still didn't affect the draw as Federer wasn't playing in Monte Carlo)?

New in tennis, aren't you?
 
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Sorana fan said:
Behave and write properly, please.

He is #2 just now, but has been #3 as of late.
Click to expand...

Yea for 2 weeks when it didn't matter as Federer was on vacation.

Since July 2012 Federer and Djokovic have been the top 2 seeds in every big tournament (Masters, Olympics, Slams etc.) they both entered.
 
Sorana fan said:
I just checked about Federer seeding and yes, I was wrong, he couldnt draw Djoko because being #2. Anyway, the second and third paragraphs still apply.

And from now on, Federer will be #3 and eventually #4 (if he is lucky and delpo doesnt step up), so I expect him to draw Djoko often....then many of you will start complaining again about his draws...

You need to realise the problem for him arent the draws, the problem is your guy is not anymore the same guy it once was. You cant win majors just beating tipsarevic. Father time has caught up with Roger. That's it.
Click to expand...

There you go again with the "lucky" comment. I suppose 17 grand slams were all due to luck? And not to mention 302 weeks as World No. 1. All due to luck. You're right. He is indeed very lucky. :lol:
 
Sorana fan said:
You need to realise the problem for him arent the draws, the problem is your guy is not anymore the same guy it once was. You cant win majors just beating tipsarevic. Father time has caught up with Roger. That's it.
Click to expand...

Nice try but Federer has only played Tipsy twice in slams and both times didn't win the title. Maybe you were referring to Djoko? I don't understand the reference. Federer has won 17 majors. Suck it up. 17>11!!!
 
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Sorana fan said:
So if Nadal is drawn with Federer then that's because it is rigged. Otherwise is rigged too but they just try to pretend. Love this logic.
Click to expand...

It is not about Federer or Nadal. I like Djokodal finals too but what is fair is fair and I'd be really disappointed if we find out some day that the draws were indeed being rigged.

I know that most fans who oppose the thought that there is a possibility of draws being rigged are Nadal fans while those who think they are rigged are Fed fans simply because in the current arrangement, Nadal stands to gain and Fed stands to lose.

Say Nadal lands in Djokovic or Murray's quarter every single time as long as he is ranked #5 (say it happens over a dozen times at slams like the Fed-Djoker SF), I doubt the Nadal fans would just shrug and say it is the luck of the draw :)
 
mariecon said:
Nice try but Federer has only played Tipsy twice in slams and both times didn't win the title. Maybe you were referring to Djoko? I don't understand the reference. Federer has won 17 majors. Suck it up. 17>11!!!
Click to expand...

Tipsarevic is just an example of a player who Roger owns. Just an example.
It's not about whether they were or not drawn previously.

The point is that if he wants to win again a major (not very likely though) he will need to beat Delpo and/or Berdych, Tsonga, Murray, Nadal, Djoko....and he isnt doing so this year. It doesnt matter what the draw looks like, they'll always be on his way, so stop complaining, he only have to go out there and beat them.

Every player has a bad matchup, the problem arises when most of the top10 are a bad matchup for you. Then who cares whether draws are rigged or not, you are not gonna win anyway
 
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I'll be shocked if Nadal is in Nole's half draw at the FO, let alone in his quarter(assuming Nadal will stay at #5).
 
Sorana fan said:
Tipsarevic is just an example of a player who Roger owns. Just an example.
It's not about whether they were or not drawn previously.

The point is that if he wants to win again a major (not very likely though) he will need to beat Delpo and/or Berdych, Tsonga, Murray, Nadal, Djoko....and he isnt doing so this year. It doesnt matter what the draw looks like, they'll always be on his way, so stop complaining, he only have to go out there and beat them.

Every player has a bad matchup, the problem arises when most of the top10 are a bad matchup for you. Then who cares whether draws are rigged or not, you are not gonna win anyway
Click to expand...

You mean like he did at Wimbledon last year! Thank you for reminding us! :lol: You're gonna eat your words sweatheart.
 
Rog should call a press conference and say something like - Novak, i dont know which half u would be in, but if you are in mine, i will kick your a**. That should be enough to provoke the TDs to rig the draw, the other way.
/jk
 
Here's an image from that thread:

2mdi2vm.jpg


I believe I later posted a larger image with the wimbledon.org URL on top.

See post 166 in this thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=384686
 
The draws should be completely random(which ofcourse they aren't to suit Nadal).
 
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