Fixed draws or rigged draws

[mariecon]

Here's an image from that thread:

I believe I later posted a larger image with the wimbledon.org URL on top.

See post 166 in this thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=384686

OK that's crazy. I can't believe this wasn't a bigger deal. Unless someone hacked their account.

 

[moonballs]

most likely will happen...and then a new conspiracy will be born...btw, remember when the complaint was novak kept getting fed in the semis and now its most often fed and nadal, so no conspiracy there anymore

It is actually the same FACT, which is Novak and Rafa are rarely in the same half, even when Nadal is out of the top two.

 

[tennis_pro]

OK that's crazy. I can't believe this wasn't a bigger deal. Unless someone hacked their account.

"Listen everyone! Federer in Nadal's half!

Lol just kidding, the usual Federer-Djokovic SF again, fools, LOL"

 

[tennis_pro]

2007 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section (R4)
2007 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2007 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2007 US Open - Djokovic in Nadal's section
------------this is where Djokovic started to really matter on the big stage
2008 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2008 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2008 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2008 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 FO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2010 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2011 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
---------Federer drops to no 3, Nadal and Djokovic are the top 2 seeds
2011 FO - Federer in Djokovic's section
2011 Wimbledon - Federer in Djokovic's section
2011 US Open - Federer in Djokovic's section
2012 AO - Federer in Nadal's section
2012 FO - Federer in Djokovic's section
2012 Wimbledon - Federer in Djokovic's section
---------Nadal is out of the game for 7 months. Murray being the only danger is now ranked 3rd behind Federer/Djokovic who are the top 2 seeds
2012 US Open - Murray in Federer's section
2013 AO - Murray in Federer's section
---------Now it gets interesting. Federer probably drops to no 3 before the FO, Nadal will be seeded 5th so you can manipulate the draw even more.
2013 FO - Let me guess, Federer in Djokovic's half, Nadal in the other half (in Ferrer's quarter).

Since 2007 Federer has had Djokovic in his half (or Murray when Nadal was absent) 19 times out of 22. Twice Djokovic was in Nadal's section at the FO so it didn't really matter as Nadal would probably beat everyone there anyway. The one and only exception is the 2012 AO.

 

[tennis_pro]

Nadal was so confused after Wimbledon 2012 that now you can't rig the draws as Djokovic and Federer were the top 2 seeds so he decided to skip 7 months of the tour.

Until Federer could be put in Djokovic's half again. Which is now.

 

[mariecon]

2007 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section (R4)
2007 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2007 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2007 US Open - Djokovic in Nadal's section
------------this is where Djokovic started to really matter on the big stage
2008 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2008 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2008 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2008 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 FO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2010 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2011 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
---------Federer drops to no 3, Nadal and Djokovic are the top 2 seeds
2011 FO - Federer in Djokovic's section
2011 Wimbledon - Federer in Djokovic's section
2011 US Open - Federer in Djokovic's section
2012 AO - Federer in Nadal's section
2012 FO - Federer in Djokovic's section
2012 Wimbledon - Federer in Djokovic's section
---------Nadal is out of the game for 7 months. Murray being the only danger is now ranked 3rd behind Federer/Djokovic who are the top 2 seeds
2012 US Open - Murray in Federer's section
2013 AO - Murray in Federer's section
---------Now it gets interesting. Federer probably drops to no 3 before the FO, Nadal will be seeded 5th so you can manipulate the draw even more.
2013 FO - Let me guess, Federer in Djokovic's half, Nadal in the other half (in Ferrer's quarter).

Since 2007 Federer has had Djokovic in his half (or Murray when Nadal was absent) 19 times out of 22. Twice Djokovic was in Nadal's section at the FO so it didn't really matter as Nadal would probably beat everyone there anyway. The one and only exception is the 2012 AO.

Thanks for doing the research. Doesn't seem random to me.

 

[sbengte]

Since 2007 Federer has had Djokovic in his half (or Murray when Nadal was absent) 19 times out of 22. Twice Djokovic was in Nadal's section at the FO so it didn't really matter as Nadal would probably beat everyone there anyway. The one and only exception is the 2012 AO.

What is surprising to me is why no one in the mainstream tennis media has commented on it. If it is obvious to casual tennis fans, surely someone whose job is writing on tennis should notice such anomalies ? Or is it now an open secret that no one publicly speaks about ?

 

[TCG]

2007 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section (R4)
2007 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2007 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2007 US Open - Djokovic in Nadal's section
------------this is where Djokovic started to really matter on the big stage
2008 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2008 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2008 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2008 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 FO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2010 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2011 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
---------Federer drops to no 3, Nadal and Djokovic are the top 2 seeds
2011 FO - Federer in Djokovic's section
2011 Wimbledon - Federer in Djokovic's section
2011 US Open - Federer in Djokovic's section
2012 AO - Federer in Nadal's section
2012 FO - Federer in Djokovic's section
2012 Wimbledon - Federer in Djokovic's section
---------Nadal is out of the game for 7 months. Murray being the only danger is now ranked 3rd behind Federer/Djokovic who are the top 2 seeds
2012 US Open - Murray in Federer's section
2013 AO - Murray in Federer's section
---------Now it gets interesting. Federer probably drops to no 3 before the FO, Nadal will be seeded 5th so you can manipulate the draw even more.
2013 FO - Let me guess, Federer in Djokovic's half, Nadal in the other half (in Ferrer's quarter).

Since 2007 Federer has had Djokovic in his half (or Murray when Nadal was absent) 19 times out of 22. Twice Djokovic was in Nadal's section at the FO so it didn't really matter as Nadal would probably beat everyone there anyway. The one and only exception is the 2012 AO.

This is beyond ridiculous. Even a child can understand that its rigged by the TDs. They just want to milk more money from Fed's image but don't want him to rack up more slams. Its pathetic

 

[DragonBlaze]

I'm a Fed fan but seriously all I see in this thread is *whine whine whine*. If Federer wants to win anything, he's just going to have to man up and beat the very guys that give him trouble. If he can't then no biggie, he's already won more than enough.

Also I think if somebody does the research RG is the one slam where things have usually been pretty random in terms of draws, and they don't end up with the same match-ups again and again unlike the other ones.

 

[Dark Magician]

This is beyond ridiculous. Even a child can understand that its rigged by the TDs. They just want to milk more money from Fed's image but don't want him to rack up more slams. Its pathetic

The probability of fed drawing novak 19 outta 22 times is nearly 1 in 2700 provided i am not wrong in calculation.

 

[sbengte]

I'm a Fed fan but seriously all I see in this thread is *whine whine whine*. If Federer wants to win anything, he's just going to have to man up and beat the very guys that give him trouble. If he can't then no biggie, he's already won more than enough.

Why and how did this thread turn into one about Federer winning anything ?

 

[DragonBlaze]

Why and how did this thread turn into one about Federer winning anything ?

Look I get your point, but I just don't think the sample size is big enough concerning Nadal's placement in the draws since his comeback (this being the 3rd tournament in which he has played with the other top players) for this topic to be brought up again.

Sure if it's happens all the way till Wimbledon/US Open then things start to get a bit suspicious. However for now I just don't see anything wrong with the recent draws.

Now if you're talking about the whole Djoker-Fed match up happening a gazillion times, that's a different story and doesn't really relate to recent events, and IMO it's a topic that has also been discussed to death. Yes I agree it's suspicious, could be rigged, could be luck. Frankly the most suspicious I've ever gotten is Isner-Mahut drawing each other again at Wimbledon which I really thought was a bit ridiculous.

Also I would again like to point out that I'm pretty sure that RG is fair with it's draws (whatever that means), and someone should look it up. I could be wrong but I think I remember reading somebody's post here which showed that this was the case. And since RG is the slam coming up, again I don't think we need to bring up rigged draws till atleast Wimbedon lol.

I apologize if I'm appearing to be overly critical, that's not my intention, I truly don't see a problem with the recent draws. Also you didn't make this thread about Federer winning anything, however there are several posters which basically did, so that wasn't directed at you!

 

[Chanwan]

Lately Federer is lucky because is NOT being drawn with #1
When was the last time he was drawn in an important tournament in Djoko's half?

The problem for Federer is that nowadays almost ANYONE is a bad matchup for him: everyone is beating him in these days.

I know fedt*rds would love him playing only tipsa, ferrer and gasquet but lets face it: they wont be in the last rounds, so your guy is gonna get spanked no matter what the draw is

When was the last time they played the same tournament and weren't ranked 1 and 2? Did Murray get to 2 before IW? If not, I think you have to go back to Wimbledon and FO - where Fed and the Djoker were drawn to meet in the semis...

 

[MonkeyBoy]

Tomic has been in Federer's eighth the last two times at the AO. It makes sense that the Australians would want Tomic to take Federer out in a passing of the torch moment and become their next superstar.

/conspiracy

 

[Chanwan]

This is beyond ridiculous. Even a child can understand that its rigged by the TDs. They just want to milk more money from Fed's image but don't want him to rack up more slams. Its pathetic

Notice how the exception to the rule happens at FO (2008 and 2010), where it doesn't really matter if Nadal meets Djoko or Murray (at least until 2011)

 

[Sentinel]

Nadal was so confused after Wimbledon 2012 that now you can't rig the draws as Djokovic and Federer were the top 2 seeds so he decided to skip 7 months of the tour.

Until Federer could be put in Djokovic's half again. Which is now.

That's the most plausible reason for Raphla's seven month absence I've come across yet.

 

[tudwell]

Thanks for doing the research. Doesn't seem random to me.

It might not seem random, but that doesn't mean it isn't. You could flip a fair coin 100 times and get 100 heads and it would still be random.

 

[mariecon]

It might not seem random, but that doesn't mean it isn't. You could flip a fair coin 100 times and get 100 heads and it would still be random.

and the probability of that happening is like one in a gazillion (my link disappeared).

So, what's your point? That doesn't prove that the draws aren't fixed. Facts are facts. There is enough reasonable doubt given past occurrences. Someone already posted a situation where the names on the draw board differed from the names that were apparently drawn.

I just think it's worth keeping a close eye on the draws to see if the pattern continues. How many times do Nadal and Djokovic have to land on opposite sides of the draw before it gets suspicious to you?

 

[kragster]

It might not seem random, but that doesn't mean it isn't. You could flip a fair coin 100 times and get 100 heads and it would still be random.

I agree with your overall premise but disagree with your example. If an event has an extremely low probability, the logical thought would be that it wasn't random. Getting 4 heads in a row is low probability but I'm seen it happen enough and that's because it's a 1/16 probability. Getting 100 in a row CAN happen but is so rare that you are better off believing the alternative I.e. something was rigged.

This is why I said if nadal lands in ferrer quarter 4 consecutive times , the probability is low enough that I will believe rigging. Right now it's happened only once.

 

[mariecon]

I agree with your overall premise but disagree with your example. If an event has an extremely low probability, the logical thought would be that it wasn't random. Getting 4 heads in a row is low probability but I'm seen it happen enough and that's because it's a 1/16 probability. Getting 100 in a row CAN happen but is so rare that you are better off believing the alternative I.e. something was rigged.

This is why I said if nadal lands in ferrer quarter 4 consecutive times , the probability is low enough that I will believe rigging. Right now it's happened only once.

What about Nadal not being in Djoker's half? That is more concerning for me because it would mean the organizers are trying to determine the final two by putting them on opposite sides of the draw.

 

[pds999]

The fact is, for the watching public the best final is Djokovic vs Nadal on clay. Federer really isn't at the races on this surface now (despite conquering the blue clay last year). Money talks so I wouldn't be at all surprised if Rafa and Novak are kept apart. Does it really matter anyway? The best player usually wins.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Trends are more telling than a single event (even when it is the upcoming Major).

 

[sbengte]

The fact is, for the watching public the best final is Djokovic vs Nadal on clay. Federer really isn't at the races on this surface now (despite conquering the blue clay last year). Money talks so I wouldn't be at all surprised if Rafa and Novak are kept apart. Does it really matter anyway? The best player usually wins.

If it was that simple, no one would raise a hue and cry over the draws, don't you think ? Matchups also count for something and draws play a significant role in determining who wins. Several slams may have had a different winner if the top players' draws were switched.

If X has Y (his bogeyman) in the other half of the draw and Z takes him out before the final, his chances of winning increase dramatically.

(If you still don't get it , try substituting (Federer , Nadal, Djoker) and (Nadal, Djoker, Federer) for X, Y, Z above)

 

[Zildite]

The fact is, for the watching public the best final is Djokovic vs Nadal on clay. Federer really isn't at the races on this surface now (despite conquering the blue clay last year). Money talks so I wouldn't be at all surprised if Rafa and Novak are kept apart. Does it really matter anyway? The best player usually wins.

Why is this a fact when Federer is still the most popular player on tour?
Federer/Nadal 2011 had the highest US ratings for an RG men's final since 1999, higher than Djokovic/Nadal 2012 although it was rain interrupted.
Might not be the 'best' final but it will still get the viewers.

 

[kragster]

If it was that simple, no one would raise a hue and cry over the draws, don't you think ? Matchups also count for something and draws play a significant role in determining who wins. Several slams may have had a different winner if the top players' draws were switched.

If X has Y (his bogeyman) in the other half of the draw and Z takes him out before the final, his chances of winning increase dramatically.

(If you still don't get it , try substituting (Federer , Nadal, Djoker) and (Nadal, Djoker, Federer) for X, Y, Z above)

You are right but it seems like over a period of time players run into their bogeymen enough that it cancels out. Nadal has met Djokovic 34 times and I guarantee you they will have met at least another 10 times before they are done! Fed has faced Nadal 29 times!

If the belief is that Nadal keeps his H2H by avoiding his bogeymen outside clay, then that will inherently reflect in Nadal's non clay titles won. I just can't see a scenario where someone can win 11 slams, much less 17 , by a series of fortuitous events. Ultimately you have to overcome your bogeyman (which Fed did in 06/07 Wimby) which Nadal did in 2012 RG.

 

[Sorana fan]

You are right but it seems like over a period of time players run into their bogeymen enough that it cancels out. Nadal has met Djokovic 34 times and I guarantee you they will have met at least another 10 times before they are done! Fed has faced Nadal 29 times!

If the belief is that Nadal keeps his H2H by avoiding his bogeymen outside clay, then that will inherently reflect in Nadal's non clay titles won. I just can't see a scenario where someone can win 11 slams, much less 17 , by a series of fortuitous events. Ultimately you have to overcome your bogeyman (which Fed did in 06/07 Wimby) which Nadal did in 2012 RG.

Exactly, Nadal has played Djokovic more times than Federer. H2H speaks.
I only can see frustrated fedt*ards praying for Deus ex machina as his guy is not good enough to win for himself anymore

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I only can see frustrated fedt*ards praying for Deus ex machina as his guy is not good enough to win for himself anymore

Federer was number one more recently than Nadal. To achieve that he beat two of the top four, to get a Major title (again, more recently than Nadal).

When was the last time Nadal did that in a Major?

:roll:

 

[mariecon]

Exactly, Nadal has played Djokovic more times than Federer. H2H speaks.
I only can see frustrated fedt*ards praying for Deus ex machina as his guy is not good enough to win for himself anymore

That's only because when Fed was winning everything in sight Nadal wasn't good enough to meet him in the final rounds of non-clay events. They're of a different generation. Just like Federer and Agassi were a different generation. Get your facts straight.

And you've totally missed the point of this thread. It's not about why are the draws so unfair to Federer, it's about whether or not draws are fixed. Read the title and if you can get off your Nadal bandwagon for a minute maybe you'll understand.

 

[beast of mallorca]

I guess the bottom line of this argument is, Fed fans want Rafa to lose.
And the only way for that to happen is for Djoker to draw him in his quarter. Fedt@rds logic : if this doesn't happen, draws are rigged......hilarious !! :twisted:

Pathetic Fedt@rds, so insecure of Rafa and relying on Djoker to beat Rafa. Can you people
Man up and let your Idol beat whoever is in front of him. If he can not do it, then he DOES NOT deserve to win the tournament. And if Rafa can not beat The Djoker, then sorry for him too and his great looking fans. Better luck next time. Win or lose, accept the draws for what they are, and may the best man win...........:lol:

 

[monfed]

I guess the bottom line of this argument is, Fed fans want Rafa to lose.
And the only way for that to happen is for Djoker to draw him in his quarter. Fedt@rds logic : if this doesn't happen, draws are rigged......hilarious !! :twisted:

Pathetic Fedt@rds, so insecure of Rafa and relying on Djoker to beat Rafa. Can you people
Man up and let your Idol beat whoever is in front of him. If he can not do it, then he DOES NOT deserve to win the tournament. And if Rafa can not beat The Djoker, then sorry for him too and his great looking fans. Better luck next time. Win or lose, accept the draws for what they are, and may the best man win...........:lol:

Would like to hear your tune when Ralph gets a challenging draw(though i reckon your tune won't change since he won't ever get a tough draw!)

 

[Sorana fan]

That's only because when Fed was winning everything in sight Nadal wasn't good enough to meet him in the final rounds of non-clay events. They're of a different generation. Just like Federer and Agassi were a different generation. Get your facts straight.

And you've totally missed the point of this thread. It's not about why are the draws so unfair to Federer, it's about whether or not draws are fixed. Read the title and if you can get off your Nadal bandwagon for a minute maybe you'll understand.

I think the one who lost the point was you complaining crying and moaning about nadal not being in the half that you'd like

Anyway, if we look at the numbers (19-10) I kind of understand how bad you feel every time Rafa and Federer are drawn together

 

[mariecon]

I think the one who lost the point was you complaining crying and moaning about nadal not being in the half that you'd like

Anyway, if we look at the numbers (19-10) I kind of understand how bad you feel every time Rafa and Federer are drawn together

Maybe you should go back and read my posts. That is, if you can read. You've lost the plot. My concern is that it appears tournament directors are taking it upon themselves to determine a certain match-up in the final. Obviously this affects viewership and $$$ in the bank. But it's simply not fair in any way. The draws should be random and match-ups should not be pre-determined. I never said anywhere that I was upset that Federer was drawn against Nadal. In fact, what I am more concerned with is that Federer and Djoker have been drawn together disproportionately in the past.

And maybe you should also go on the ATP site and school yourself on how the draws work because obviously you haven't a clue, as illustrated by your comment... "Lately Federer is lucky because is NOT being drawn with #1. When was the last time he was drawn in an important tournament in Djoko's half?" Considering they've been #1 and #2 and vise versa for almost a year, that is an impossibility.:shock:

Have a nice day.

 

[tennis_pro]

I guess the bottom line of this argument is, Fed fans want Rafa to lose.
And the only way for that to happen is for Djoker to draw him in his quarter. Fedt@rds logic : if this doesn't happen, draws are rigged......hilarious !! :twisted:

Pathetic Fedt@rds, so insecure of Rafa and relying on Djoker to beat Rafa. Can you people
Man up and let your Idol beat whoever is in front of him. If he can not do it, then he DOES NOT deserve to win the tournament. And if Rafa can not beat The Djoker, then sorry for him too and his great looking fans. Better luck next time. Win or lose, accept the draws for what they are, and may the best man win...........:lol:

I've got no problem with Federer drawing Nadal (or Djokovic every time it was possible) in his half.

50 % OF THE TIME, NOT 95%!!!!

 

[moonballs]

...
Every player has a bad matchup, the problem arises when most of the top10 are a bad matchup for you. Then who cares whether draws are rigged or not, you are not gonna win anyway

Nadal's bad match-up is Djokovic. Federer's bad match-up is Nadal. Djokovic is the strongest player but his relative bad match-up is Federer. At the level of the current level of competition, nobody is strong enough to handle his own bad match up plus another top 4 player back to back (the fourth being Murray). So the draw matters greatly.

 

[TMF]

2007 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section (R4)
2007 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2007 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2007 US Open - Djokovic in Nadal's section
------------this is where Djokovic started to really matter on the big stage
2008 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2008 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2008 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2008 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 FO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2009 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 FO - Djokovic in Nadal's section
2010 Wimbledon - Djokovic in Federer's section
2010 US Open - Djokovic in Federer's section
2011 AO - Djokovic in Federer's section
---------Federer drops to no 3, Nadal and Djokovic are the top 2 seeds
2011 FO - Federer in Djokovic's section
2011 Wimbledon - Federer in Djokovic's section
2011 US Open - Federer in Djokovic's section
2012 AO - Federer in Nadal's section
2012 FO - Federer in Djokovic's section
2012 Wimbledon - Federer in Djokovic's section
---------Nadal is out of the game for 7 months. Murray being the only danger is now ranked 3rd behind Federer/Djokovic who are the top 2 seeds
2012 US Open - Murray in Federer's section
2013 AO - Murray in Federer's section
---------Now it gets interesting. Federer probably drops to no 3 before the FO, Nadal will be seeded 5th so you can manipulate the draw even more.
2013 FO - Let me guess, Federer in Djokovic's half, Nadal in the other half (in Ferrer's quarter).

Since 2007 Federer has had Djokovic in his half (or Murray when Nadal was absent) 19 times out of 22. Twice Djokovic was in Nadal's section at the FO so it didn't really matter as Nadal would probably beat everyone there anyway. The one and only exception is the 2012 AO.

This is beyond ridiculous. Even a child can understand that its rigged by the TDs. They just want to milk more money from Fed's image but don't want him to rack up more slams. Its pathetic

Proof that Federer was put in a most difficult situation to win slams.

I don't want to hear anymore Fed detractors(eg The_Order) say Fed had it easy throughout his career when in fact he had the toughest draw 95% of the time.

Who knows, Fed probably be sitting on at least 20 slams by now had all of those draws were balanced out.

 

[Sorana fan]

And maybe you should also go on the ATP site and school yourself on how the draws work because obviously you haven't a clue, as illustrated by your comment... "Lately Federer is lucky because is NOT being drawn with #1. When was the last time he was drawn in an important tournament in Djoko's half?" Considering they've been #1 and #2 and vise versa for almost a year, that is an impossibility.:shock:

I already answered this in comment #35 maybe it's you who can't read

 

[Dark Magician]

Proof that Federer was put in a most difficult situation to win slams.

I don't want to hear anymore Fed detractors(eg The_Order) say Fed had it easy throughout his career when in fact he had the toughest draw 95% of the time.

Who knows, Fed probably be sitting on at least 20 slams by now had all of those draws were balanced out.

I honestly feel drawing Djokovic in his draw has affected Fed in US Open'11 (Rafa would have beated Fed in Final, most probably i US10), RG11 and RG12, both however can be nullified by the RGs where Djokovic was in Rafa's half.

 

[veroniquem]

Nadal's bad match-up is Djokovic. Federer's bad match-up is Nadal. Djokovic is the strongest player but his relative bad match-up is Federer. .

I've been wanting to put away that nonsense spouted by Fed fans for a while. Many thanks for the opportunity. There is no difference between the difficulties Djoko poses to Nadal and Fed. He's a bad matchup for both atm . If anything Djoko is closer to tie the head to head with Fed (13-16) than with Nadal (15-19). 3 matches difference vs 4. Both Fed and Nadal led the head to head vs Novak before 2011 but since 2011, Nole is 7-3 vs Fed and 8-3 vs Nadal (but Novak hasn't played Fed yet in 2013). Notice how Fed and Nadal have won exactly the same # of matches vs Djoko in the last 3 seasons: 3. In slams, since 2011, Novak is 3-1 vs Nadal and 4-2 vs Fed. (so, 1 more loss vs Fed but also 1 more win). Notice that Nadal beat Djoko last in a hard court slam in 2010. Fed has not defeated Novak in a hard court slam since 2009. Since the beginning of 2011, Fed has only beaten Djoko on hard court once (Cincy 2012).
Conclusion: Rafa and Fed were both a bad matchup for Djoko until 2011. Since 2011, Djoko has become a nightmare matchup for both. (Oh and I almost forgot: Nole defeated both Fed and Nadal in 3 slams out of the 4)

 

[mariecon]

I already answered this in comment #35 maybe it's you who can't read

I guess you agree with the rest of my post which is why you didn't quote it.

 

[tennis_pro]

I've been wanting to put away that nonsense spouted by Fed fans for a while. Many thanks for the opportunity. There is no difference between the difficulties Djoko poses to Nadal and Fed. He's a bad matchup for both atm . If anything Djoko is closer to tie the head to head with Fed (13-16) than with Nadal (15-19). 3 matches difference vs 4. Both Fed and Nadal led the head to head vs Novak before 2011 but since 2011, Nole is 7-3 vs Fed and 8-3 vs Nadal (but Novak hasn't played Fed yet in 2013). Notice how Fed and Nadal have won exactly the same # of matches vs Djoko in the last 3 seasons: 3. In slams, since 2011, Novak is 3-1 vs Nadal and 4-2 vs Fed. (so, 1 more loss vs Fed but also 1 more win). Notice that Nadal beat Djoko last in a hard court slam in 2010. Fed has not defeated Novak in a hard court slam since 2009. Since the beginning of 2011, Fed has only beaten Djoko on hard court once (Cincy 2012).
Conclusion: Rafa and Fed were both a bad matchup for Djoko until 2011. Since 2011, Djoko has become a nightmare matchup for both. (Oh and I almost forgot: Nole defeated both Fed and Nadal in 3 slams out of the 4)

Cool story but you forgot to add that since Djokovic reached his peak Federer has been 30 years old + while Nadal is roughly the same age as Djokovic. Conclusion - old Federer has done better against peak Djokovic than prime Nadal.

Nadal has only been able to beat Djokovic on clay, all in 1 season when Djokovic was below his best and Nadal was at his best (2012). Other than that, he's been losing to him every other time. Federer beat Djokovic TWICE in slams since the beginning on 2011, had match points in a third encounter and beat him on 3 surfaces (including a bagel on a hard court when he was 31). All in all, Federer, even despite his advanced for a tennis player age, has been a far bigger threat to Djokovic than Nadal who is reputedly in his prime.

 

[veroniquem]

Don't give me age. Fed is still #2, Nadal has bad knees. So what? Yes Fed beat Djoko in slams twice but Djoko beat Fed in slams 4 times (1 more time than Nadal). I could have added that Nadal still led the head to head vs Djoko in 2012, Fed didn't. There is no rationale at this point to claim that Fed is a bad matchup for Djoko when all the recent stats point to the exact opposite (except in RG for Rafa and in W for Fed )

 

[tennis_pro]

Don't give me age. Fed is still #2, Nadal has bad knees. So what? Yes Fed beat Djoko in slams twice but Djoko beat Fed in slams 4 times (1 more time than Nadal).

Your logic is weird. So going 8-6 against someone in majors (8 matches won, 6 lost) is the same as going 2-0 because the differential is the same? Besides, Djokovic is 3-2 against Federer in majors, not 4-2, so your reasoning goes down the toilet, anyway.
I don't think there's anyone who questions Federer being a bigger threat for Djokovic in slams than Nadal. Beat him twice. Should've won a third time. Nadal has only been a threat to Djokovic in 2012 and purely on clay. Even in 2011 and 2013 he played him 3 times on clay and didn't win a set.

I could have added that Nadal still led the head to head vs Djoko in 2012, Fed didn't.

They played 4 times and 3 times on clay. Big deal. Let them play 4 times 3 of which are on hard courts and let's see if Nadal will lead the h2h. Nadal obviously chicken out after Wimbledon, wonder what would've happened if Nadal faced Djokovic in one of Canada, Cincinnati, US Open, Shanghai, Paris, WTF...

There is no rationale at this point to claim that Fed is a bad matchup for Djoko when all the recent stats point to the exact opposite (except in RG for Rafa and in W for Fed )

Fed has performed considerably worse than Nadal since the beginning of 2011 yet he's given Djokovic more trouble. Why is that?

 

[Sorana fan]

I guess you agree with the rest of my post which is why you didn't quote it.

No, but it's already answered too. Stop pretending you care about rigged draws and admit your only concern is just getting Rafa in Djoko's half, so this way your guy dont have to face them till an unlikely final (Berdych, Delpo or Tsonga would sweep him in QF or SF anyway).

Djoko and Rafa have been the 2 best players for the last years and they have to be in opposite halves. Everyones expects that. Everyone wants it like that (everyone but fedt*rds, of course). Period.

After W2012 he has played 2 more GS without Nadal and with Djoko in the other half...has he won any? NO What is the pretext now?

 

[tennis_pro]

Don't give me age. Fed is still #2, Nadal has bad knees.

Nadal has bad knees because he's a grinder. He knew exactly what he was doing muscling out every match. What can Federer do about getting older, though?

 

[tennis_pro]

No, but it's already answered too. Stop pretending you care about rigged draws and admit your only concern is just getting Rafa in Djoko's half, so this way your guy dont have to face them till an unlikely final (Berdych, Delpo or Tsonga would sweep him in QF or SF anyway).

Djoko and Rafa have been the 2 best players for the last years and they have to be in opposite halves. Everyones expects that. Everyone wants it like that (everyone but fedt*rds, of course). Period.

Federer worked his a** off in late 2011 and 2012 to get to no 1 (before Nadal got "injured").

Nobody "expects" Nadal and Djokovic to be in opposite draws because they arent't the top 2 seeds. As I said earlier (stop putting Federer fans in one basket), if Nadal for whatever reason isn't one of the top 2 seeds he should be RANDOMLY placed with either Djokovic or Federer in one half (should happen 40-60% of the time), instead he's being protected like a 3-year old baby so it doesn't get hurt. I've got no problem with Nadal landing in Federer's half of the draw if it happens app. 1 out of 2 times (AS IT SHOULD). I've got a problem with it happening ALL THE TIME.

So I guess he can just take a year of vacation come back and don't worry about being drawn with Djokovic in one half. Is this fair?

 

[mariecon]

Don't give me age. Fed is still #2, Nadal has bad knees. So what? Yes Fed beat Djoko in slams twice but Djoko beat Fed in slams 4 times (1 more time than Nadal). I could have added that Nadal still led the head to head vs Djoko in 2012, Fed didn't. There is no rationale at this point to claim that Fed is a bad matchup for Djoko when all the recent stats point to the exact opposite (except in RG for Rafa and in W for Fed )

but, but , but...you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't say forget that Federer is 31 when you're only using stats since 2011. It doesn't work that way. If that's the case, then look at the slam H2H between Fed and Djoker. And it's 6-5 for Federer so Fed wins!:twisted: Fed still gives Djoker trouble as was evidenced at Wimbledon last year. Fed beat both the #1 and #4 ranked players to win the title. At 30 years of age! And he wouldn't be playing if he didn't have the belief that he can do it again.

 

[Sorana fan]

Federer worked his a** off in late 2011 and 2012 to get to no 1 (before Nadal got "injured").

He can start to work again in 2013, I think it's already may, he's running late.

 

[beast of mallorca]

Would like to hear your tune when Ralph gets a challenging draw(though i reckon your tune won't change since he won't ever get a tough draw!)

I've got no problem with Federer drawing Nadal (or Djokovic every time it was possible) in his half.

50 % OF THE TIME, NOT 95%!!!!

Federer worked his a** off in late 2011 and 2012 to get to no 1 (before Nadal got "injured").

Nobody "expects" Nadal and Djokovic to be in opposite draws because they arent't the top 2 seeds. As I said earlier (stop putting Federer fans in one basket), if Nadal for whatever reason isn't one of the top 2 seeds he should be RANDOMLY placed with either Djokovic or Federer in one half (should happen 40-60% of the time), instead he's being protected like a 3-year old baby so it doesn't get hurt.

So I guess he can just take a year of vacation come back and don't worry about being drawn with Djokovic in one half. Is this fair?

If your Idol can not beat either or both in any tournament, then he has no business winning the said tournament. That goes the same. for Rafa.

It doesn't matter if Rafa or Djoker lands in the same half as your Idol 10% or 100% of the time. If he is good enough, then he'll win. Just Man-up dude and stop all these whining. As Clarky said, Rafa might not even win his first match, and for that matter, Federer.

 

[tennis_pro]

If your Idol can not beat either or both in any tournament, then he has no business winning the said tournament. That goes the same. for Rafa.

It doesn't matter if Rafa or Djoker lands in the same half as your Idol 10% or 100% of the time. If he is good enough, then he'll win. Just Man-up dude and stop all these whining. As Clarky said, Rafa might not even win his first match, and for that matter, Federer.

It's easy to say "man up" when your "man" is getting all the cakewalks. Let's see how you talk when Nadal is in Djokovic's half all the time (like it's gonna happen...)

 

[tennis_pro]

He can start to work again in 2013, I think it's already may, he's running late.

It's Nadal who has to catch up. If he fails to defend his near coming titles he'll be out of the top 10 soon.