Fixed Gear Bicycles

AmericanTemplar said:
Yeah, I think that the unbadged Kilo is an excellent choice! If you do go that route, I'd suggest going to a bike shop & having them change the cog to a 17t & buy a new lockring (Durace is like $15 & Surly cog is around $25). The lockrings that come with the Kilo's are super soft & can strip the hub. Also, something to keep in mind is that you are going to need to buy pedals (pedals that come with bikes are usually just for test riding). I suggest the MKS Sylvans with MKS clips & whatever strap you fancy. Personally I like the double straps, but they cost more & I like the extra security, since I'm riding brakeless.

One last thing: you are going to want to take the wheels in to a bike shop to get them tensioned & trued.

As far as going geared--I think that you can get more bang for your buck on Craig's List or **** buying used. Where in CA are you? I might be able to help you locate some good options if you decide that interests you.
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Sacto area for much of the summer (what a great time to be in Sacto-100 degrees day in and day out :)), then back to San Diego in the fall. Thanks!
 
Thats a sweet little chrome fixie. I'd keep the brakes off and put platform pedals on it personally. Then you have a bike that will be perfect for everyday commuting as long as you know what you are doing.

I am totally anti clips. Unless you race all the time, I don't see the need. I am more into airing out and doing technical singletracks. Platforms really get your technique dialed and you will be able to bail a lot easier. Plus you can wear whatever shoes you want instead of riding specific ones.
 
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FastFreddy said:
Your the same person pointing out mistakes on email at work right.
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The somewhat beautiful irony. Oh well.

found over the years of training 253 watts is the most I can do for up to 99 mins everyday and recover for the next day. I do only 60 mins at lunch time. The bike will only let you program up to 99 mins. I just didn't get that number out of thin air.
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Kinda glad it's not 9 mins. Lucky it's not 999 mins.

Wow a decade I owned 7 road bikes over my 25 years of riding and racing. Plus some bmx racing, dirt jumping, freestyle ie quarter pipe, half pipe and also owned 3 dirt bikes YZ 125, RM 250 and a CR500.
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Does that mean you win? Or is this another numbers contest? The other week I was riding an 1100, and I've been meaning to borrow my mate's 1400. But wait, you've got a mate with a Rocket III? Damn.

Anyone who is into hard training and racing and has the money(not cheap 3k) will use a SRM to train and race to improve power.
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I've known a lot of cyclists in my time, and i've known a few who have owned SRMs.

PS: I got my Spin cert back in 1995.
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Ok.
 
Power Player said:
Thats a sweet little chrome fixie. I'd keep the brakes off and put platform pedals on it personally. Then you have a bike that will be perfect for everyday commuting as long as you know what you are doing.

I am totally anti clips. Unless you race all the time, I don't see the need. I am more into airing out and doing technical singletracks. Platforms really get your technique dialed and you will be able to bail a lot easier. Plus you can wear whatever shoes you want instead of riding specific ones.
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Sorry dude, that sounds like really bad advice. A beginner should not be riding brakeless & having no foot retention while riding fixed is an accident waiting to happen.
 
Well maybe a front brake then, but clipless is not for beginners anyway. In fact clipless makes zero sense for a commuter bike. I don't know anyone who rides clipless on a fixed bike or uses brakes. Platform pedals are so much better and common on fixes. Why should a beginner ride around with their feet locked into a pedal? That makes zero sense at all.

I'd start with 1 brake just to have and then slowly learn how to slow down without using it at all.

And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.
 
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Yeah, but judging by the fact that you ride BMX & a Dirt Jumper, I'm guessing that the people you know who ride fixed use them for tricks. Platform pedals are OK for circling around parking lots doing wheelies, but foot retention is smart for anyone who plans on really riding. Anyway, I wasn't suggesting going clipless (although that's a good option too if you're running a brake), I was suggesting cages with straps.
 
I don't know anyone who tricks on fixies, and if I did I would mock them. That just looks ridiculous to me...lol. I know a lot of people who ride fixies for commuting and also courier work and they all use platforms. I think what you are decribing would be ok, but if you can pedal well with platforms it only makes you better.
 
And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget that he's also a big wave surfer and dates models. :)
 
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Kevin T said:
And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.

Don't foget that he's also a big wave surfer and dates models. :)
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I think I'm in love :oops:
 
Surf

Kevin T said:
And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.
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Don't forget that he's also a big wave surfer and dates models. :)[/QUOTE]

Kev I will leave the surfing in SoCal poop to you. Don't hate since I dated a few models, raced my Mustang at E-Town and done a bunch of sports like tennis, ice hockey, ping pong, squash, bowling, weight lifting, marathons, cycling and traveled the world. Expert only on the sports listed above Kev is an expert on the rest. PS: don't know what you look like Asian? But if you were a Swede like me you too could get models.
 
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FastFreddy said:
Don't forget that he's also a big wave surfer and dates models. :)
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Kev I will leave the surfing in SoCal poop to you. Don't hate since I dated a few models, raced my Mustang at E-Town and done a bunch of sports like tennis, ice hockey, ping pong, squash, bowling, weight lifting, marathons, cycling and traveled the world. Expert only on the sports listed above Kev is an expert on the rest. PS: don't know what you look like Asian? But if you were a Swede like me you too could get models.[/QUOTE]

Not Asian. Dad was Native American (Pamunkey) and Mom is a Scot (first generation born in the States). For a tennis reference, most people say I look like Pat Rafter with the current short haircut (only better looking :) and 40# heavier). I married a Mexican chica, so I can say with confidence, go for the 1/4 Mexican 1/4 German 1/2 whatever hair dresser. A lot of hot sauce in that blood. I'm expert in football, basketball, tennis, squash, racquetball, trailrunning, skinny skiing, dwarf tossing, going to bullfights on acid and I throw a mean yo-yo. By the way, I've been away from Saint Diego all summer and miss that poop surf!
 
Power Player said:
And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.
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*Light Bulb Moment* - I now remember some car posts from the other thread - I think from the Jo11y thread - it's all starting to make sense.

Power Player said:
if you can pedal well with platforms it only makes you better.
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Hmm, that doesn't make too much sense to me. I mean, it does if we're talking about technical ability on trails, but we're talking about pedaling, and I don't get it.

Ultimately, a lot of platform-only work will likely result in a very non-circular pedal-stroke, as it's simply difficult to use more than the 1-5 o'clock phase of the stroke at any time, and fairly impossible to use the 'opposite half' of the stroke at all.

I'm seeing (in the long term) over-developed Quads, underdeveloped Hamstrings and potentially some imbalance injuries.

Happy to hear your thoughts on this....
 
Milf

Kevin T said:
Kev I will leave the surfing in SoCal poop to you. Don't hate since I dated a few models, raced my Mustang at E-Town and done a bunch of sports like tennis, ice hockey, ping pong, squash, bowling, weight lifting, marathons, cycling and traveled the world. Expert only on the sports listed above Kev is an expert on the rest. PS: don't know what you look like Asian? But if you were a Swede like me you too could get models.
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Not Asian. Dad was Native American (Pamunkey) and Mom is a Scot (first generation born in the States). For a tennis reference, most people say I look like Pat Rafter with the current short haircut (only better looking :) and 40# heavier). I married a Mexican chica, so I can say with confidence, go for the 1/4 Mexican 1/4 German 1/2 whatever hair dresser. A lot of hot sauce in that blood. I'm expert in football, basketball, tennis, squash, racquetball, trailrunning, skinny skiing, dwarf tossing, going to bullfights on acid and I throw a mean yo-yo. By the way, I've been away from Saint Diego all summer and miss that poop surf![/QUOTE]

I agree 1/2 Mexican 1/4 Italian 1/4 German she might be too hot blooded for me I don't want to see her mad. For 41 and 3 kids she looks dam good. With botox and fillers and fake boobs, lipo and chemical peels you can make a MILF. I did put both feet ankle high in the poop at Coronado beach last summer that was the only time. Dwaft tossing sounds fun!!!
 
This "MILF" frankenstein who shapes your soul patch, applies your highlights, & sprays your tan on is the one who rides fixed?
 
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Maybe Freddy's hip hair salon is powered entirely by fixie.

"Pedal harder! The light is too dim to apply the local, organic, vegan palmade."
 
Hair

AmericanTemplar said:
This "MILF" frankenstein who shapes your soul patch, applies your highlights, & sprays your tan on is the one who rides fixed?
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My hitting buddy had a soul patch that thing is werid. A little Asian guy with a soul patch, guess that's the only facial hair he could grow? Sorry no highlights on my golden blonde hair. My women gets lowlights and highlights and she gets a spray tan, fake and bake or lays out in the sun. The MILF only cuts my hair. I wish she give me a special massage(happy ending). She has a fixed gear and a beach bike but no road bike. I am sure she has a skateboard too.
 
Idea

AmericanTemplar said:
Maybe Freddy's hip hair salon is powered entirely by fixie.

"Pedal harder! The light is too dim to apply the local, organic, vegan palmade."
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That would be funny, more power my blow dryer is dying. One jail in AZ has the inmates pedal a bike to run their tv it's a good idea since most are over weight. This would save the taxpayers a few bucks.
 
OrangeOne said:
Hmm, that doesn't make too much sense to me. I mean, it does if we're talking about technical ability on trails, but we're talking about pedaling, and I don't get it.

Ultimately, a lot of platform-only work will likely result in a very non-circular pedal-stroke, as it's simply difficult to use more than the 1-5 o'clock phase of the stroke at any time, and fairly impossible to use the 'opposite half' of the stroke at all.

I'm seeing (in the long term) over-developed Quads, underdeveloped Hamstrings and potentially some imbalance injuries.

Happy to hear your thoughts on this....
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Well, I am not sure how everyone rides. There are different reasons for each person. If you are serious about road biking and spinning technique, then I agree that clipless is the way to go. If you want a bike to commute 10-20 miles with then you do not need clipless, it only makes your life more difficult and potentially more dangerous. If you are like me, and are more into technical trails and BMX, then clipless only builds really bad habits like cheating while you bunnyhop, or not being able to bail properly.

I guess what I am saying is that the majority of people who ride bikes do not need clipless. If you are talking about pedal stroke efficiency and that is a big thing for you, then you are not in the majority and should definitley ride clipless, and have your stem height measured and bike custom fit also. If I was a road bike rider for long distances, I would definitley do all of those things, but I simply don't get into that style of riding.
 
Power Player said:
Well, I am not sure how everyone rides. There are different reasons for each person. If you are serious about road biking and spinning technique, then I agree that clipless is the way to go. If you want a bike to commute 10-20 miles with then you do not need clipless, it only makes your life more difficult and potentially more dangerous. If you are like me, and are more into technical trails and BMX, then clipless only builds really bad habits like cheating while you bunnyhop, or not being able to bail properly.

I guess what I am saying is that the majority of people who ride bikes do not need clipless. If you are talking about pedal stroke efficiency and that is a big thing for you, then you are not in the majority and should definitley ride clipless, and have your stem height measured and bike custom fit also. If I was a road bike rider for long distances, I would definitley do all of those things, but I simply don't get into that style of riding.
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I'm still having difficulty understanding how riding clipless is more dangerous. It may be more dangerous for your first couple of rides while getting used to them, but I definitely feel safer being clipped in while frantically spinning down hills at 50 mph. But yeah, they're not necessary for just commuting. With MTBing on the other hand I ride clipless & wouldn't go any other way. I don't like the thought of slipping off of platforms over rough terrain & I would think that they would make climbing over loose stuff like sand next to impossible. Again, it sounds like you do a different type of riding than I do. It also doesn't sound like you have much experience riding clipless, the cheating while bunnyhopping comment being the biggest clue, but I may be wrong.
 
I have seen enough n00bs fall on clipless bikes to realize it is far more dangerous then simply putting your foot down when you need to get off the pedals. Falling and not being able to unclip is a common issue with anyone new to clipless riding, and it takes longer then 2 sessions to get good at unclipping. Many guys I talk to complained about how long it took. One guy I know broke 2 ribs falling off his bike clipped in, and was going maybe 5 mph. But like I said, I consider someone just getting into riding a person that will learn by commuting and getting used to the bike....if we are still talking Fixies.

For MTB, I have never seen anyone new on clipless bunnyhop the right way, which is launching off the back tire, and sucking up the bike. Instead they pull both wheels up at the same time because it is far easier (even though they will never get up higher then 2 feet) and immediately develop a bad habit from it.

I live in florida so I go over sand all the time with no issues. I have 510 shoes and pedals with good grip when I ride singletracks. We have a place called Santos that is real demanding and is basically a MTB haven down here. Being able to hop over huge logs and manual off of ledges is a must for the black trails. I would not want to loop out a manual clipped in...ever.

I have never once ever heard anyone recommend clipless to new riders. This is the first time I have ever heard it before, and that is fine if it is your opinion, but it is in the minority of anything I have ever heard.
 
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I haven't recommended clipless to a new rider, but I would recommend cages over flats for fixed riding to any rider who plans on descending any hills. Remember, the cranks will keep spinning if your feet slip off of your platforms while descending. But I'm just speaking as someone who has ridden fixed for a few years now, coming from a city where half of the bikes on the road are fixed (& there are A LOT in this city). I wouldn't recommend cages or clipless to BMX riders--actually I would save recommendation-making for what should be used with BMX bikes to you, since you actually ride them.
 
I'm leaving fixed out of my comments here, as I don't ride them.

For General Road, or General MTB: Clipless is my number one recommendation. Even for a new rider, it only takes the aforementioned 2 or 3 sessions and people get the hang of it.

I do agree that clipless don't teach correct MTB 'hopping' techniques, but most don't learn that any-which-way, and most are riding trails that are less technical than that. As AT mentioned, there are times when clipless are safer than flats, by allowing the feet to stay on the pedals. I know some guys that can bunny-hop small children on flats, but equally, that's been a big focus of their riding. MOST of the riding population rides trails for fun & fitness, and clipless hold so many benefits for that style of general riding.

For road: No question, unless we're talking very short commutes - a mile or two (where changing shoes is a pain in the butt), clipless again is the recommendation. That said, thesedays there are some quite good cross-over shoes that have clips deep in normal soles - I noticed the local bike police wearing some only yesterday. Again, clipless (compared with flats) is safer, faster, more efficient, better for muscle balance, you name it. I think someone mentioned 10 or 15 miles as being ok on flats? I'd rather have water torture than ride a 15 mile commute on flats! ;)

Oh - I'd never recommend the old-style tie-in cages / whatever you choose to call them, especially to a new rider, but to almost any rider, especially on imperfect roads. They are asking for trouble. Very advanced riders may cope, most others, well, flats or clipless are much, much safer.

As for the whole unclipping debate: It's dead-easy, and modern systems are easier to clip in & out of too. People really do pick up the hang of it quickly.
 
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I ride 25-30 miles on flats. It's nothing. A lot of people are switching back to flats. It's a personal preference. I don't think so much about all the details, I just ride and commit to the technical parts. If I had pains or inefficient pedaling, I'd consider switching, but I never have.

Honestly, the MTB community is split 50/50 on which is best. I know if I was a new rider looking to learn how to ride trails, I would definitley not want the added stress of being clipped in. I have never heard anybody say they learned it in 2-3 sessions yet. I have heard numerous people say they fell really hard for a while before they got it down, and a buddy of mine who has been racing for years still can't always unclip in time before wrecking.

I'm just going to disagree yet again with clipless being easier for a new rider then a platform pedal. Especially if they are just riding for fun. I also ride a hardtail and think full suspension is not needed unless you ride downhill. And I wold definitley not want to be clipped in for that either..lol!
 
Power Player said:
I ride 25-30 miles on flats. It's nothing. A lot of people are switching back to flats. It's a personal preference. I don't think so much about all the details, I just ride and commit to the technical parts. If I had pains or inefficient pedaling, I'd consider switching, but I never have.
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I have known 1000s of MTB riders in my life - literally 1000s (due to a job I did for quite some time). I'm not sure I know a single person, at least in the dominant XC/Trail scene, that has 'switched back' to flats.

Honestly, the MTB community is split 50/50 on which is best.
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Small sections of the MTB community may be, but on the whole, the largest percentage of MTB riders are xc/all-mountain trail riders, and there's little debate there.

I know if I was a new rider looking to learn how to ride trails, I would definitley not want the added stress of being clipped in. I have never heard anybody say they learned it in 2-3 sessions yet. I have heard numerous people say they fell really hard for a while before they got it down, and a buddy of mine who has been racing for years still can't always unclip in time before wrecking.
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Ok, so maybe 4-5 sessions? And sure, many will want to learn for a bit with flats and then transition. Some will relish the challenge of both. Everyone will have 'SPuD' moments here and there when learning - heck, i've seen national-level riders forget to unclip and fall over in front of 100s of people. But the bigger question is, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? The answer is a resounding yes, as almost every human being can ride further with more efficiency if clipped in.

I'm no technical guru and when I got into cycling I started on the road with clipless - tougher to get in & out of, tougher to stand (as road shoes and roads tend to be 'slipperier' than dirt, and tougher when you fall. I got the hang pretty quick....

I'm just going to disagree yet again with clipless being easier for a new rider then a platform pedal. Especially if they are just riding for fun.
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I don't think we're talking 'brand new' rider here, but once someone masters the very basics....

I also ride a hardtail and think full suspension is not needed unless you ride downhill. And I wold definitley not want to be clipped in for that either..lol!
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Not sure where this comes into it? The HT/FS debate is one that can go forever. I ride a HT, but if I were buying a bike now I'd likely buy FS as it'd make some of the more technical trails both more comfortable and enjoyable. FS bikes of 2010 don't have the same disadvantages that they did 10-15 years ago, but I'm sure you'd know that. The idea of something with 3-5 inches of lockout-able travel at the rear appeals quite a lot to me.

As for clipless and DH - well, of course 95% ride on flats. A few of the best in the world are going clipless now, and it'll be interesting to see how many follow.
 
Well you definitley like to debate and may be taking this more seriously then me. I said my opinion and what trends I am seeing here in my region. I can't go back and forth about something on the internet forever.

How you ride is the most important factor in making your decision. That really is my main point and I will leave it at that.
 
I totally agree with OrangeOne on clipless being the standard for road & most MTBing, although I don't know what is common with downhill & dirt-jumping. I know that I am a rarity, but I actually never have fallen from staying clipped in--even on my first time out.

The reason that I say that cages are generally preferable for riding fixed is because with clipless you have to be able to get into the pedal while the cranks are spinning, which can be difficult & dangerous if you're starting from the top of a hill. With cages at least you have the option of riding on the back of the pedals until you're able to get into them. Also because the drivetrain is used just as much to power the bike as it is to modulate speed, I feel more secure in cages than I do with clipless, since I don't have to worry about accidentally popping out of them.

Also, Power Player - the reason that OrangeOne is taking the debate seriously, as am I, is because we both feel that you are providing information that could be misleading to the people on this board who are looking to use their hard earned cash to get into cycling.
 
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Really? That's total BS.You are telling people to buy their first bike from Bikes Direct, so they will have no local bike shop support for repairs and will have to pay 50-100 dollars just to have the bike assembled. I can see maybe down the road, but as their first bike, that would be a bad option.They can't even get on the bike to see how the geo is for them before purchasing it, yet somehow I am giving misleading advice?

As for clipless being the standard for most MTBing, that is also complete BS. I could see if you said it was 50/50 split or a personal choice, but to say I am giving misinfo and then you turn around and say it is the standard to ride clipless is laughable.

Here is a link to a mountain bike site which immediately proves both of you guys wrong in your hard stances (people are switching to platforms from clipless in this discussion). Further reading in that site would be optimal for a new rider instead of reading 3 guys opinions on a tennis board. You will see that most people are split in their preference, and in no way is clipless "the standard". In fact some studies show that it could actually be damaging to your legs and only gives you a 10% power increase.

Furthermore, you can research opinions on Bikes Direct there and get much better information then here. Regardless, I have not given any misleading info at all, it just is contrary to your opinion and that bothers you for some reason. I really did not need a debate, but once you start calling me out you should realize that you don't know everything about bikes (nor do I, but I know some stuff). Or if you do, I will start calling you fastfreddy from now on...haha.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=611244

And here is a very popular instruction site referenced in the thread.
http://www.bikejames.com/
 
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Power Player said:
Really? That's total BS.You are telling people to buy their first bike from Bikes Direct, so they will have no local bike shop support for repairs and will have to pay 50-100 dollars just to have the bike assembled. I can see maybe down the road, but as their first bike, that would be a bad option.They can't even get on the bike to see how the geo is for them before purchasing it, yet somehow I am giving misleading advice?
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A bikes direct (or equivalent bike) will not cost $100 to finalise assembly anywhere. It would be a price equivalent to a minor service at best.

Also - if you want to call people on BS - how about the bit in red. Sure, people will have to pay for support, but it will indeed be there, just as most bike purchasers have to pay for support.

As for clipless being the standard for most MTBing, that is also complete BS. I could see if you said it was 50/50 split or a personal choice, but to say I am giving misinfo and then you turn around and say it is the standard to ride clipless is laughable.
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I often attend 1000-2000-person-plus participation-based mountain bike events. 95%-plus of these riders are using clipless.

Again, trail/xc riding covers the vast majority of the sport, and most of these riders end up clipless.

Here is a link to a mountain bike site which immediately proves both of you guys wrong in your hard stances (people are switching to platforms from clipless in this discussion).
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You posted a thread on a forum. That's like me saying "thesedays, most people gravitate towards heavy, small framed racquets" and posting a link to the KPS88 thread on here. Please. Subjectivity at it's worst.

In fact some studies show that it could actually be damaging to your legs and only gives you a 10% power increase.
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Post them (the studies) and I'll read them.

As for the power increase - have people been focusing on the extra power from clipless? The power section of the pedal stroke is primarily the same, clipped or unclipped.

The key difference is that being clipped-in allows you to better utilise the whole pedal stroke - which better balances the muscles used. It's vital when it comes to covering distance - which isn't about power, but is about endurance. The average rider (other than FFreddy) isn't looking for more power, they're looking to feel better as they ride further, and feel better the next day.
 
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How about having a look at the Motobecane subforums, if you want to see whether or not BD buyers are generally pleased with their purchases: http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=133

The funniest part about your attempt at a rebuttal, Power Player, is that you completely neglect to consider the fact that I already brought up the downside to buying from BD in my early posts. I even suggested that anyone who buys from BD should either know a bit about bikes themselves or have a friend who can help them out. Not to mention with the fixed bikes in particular, anyone is capable of sliding in the seatpost, mounting the front wheel, attaching the stem/bars, & attaching the brake lever, which is all that is required for assembly.

Next: an opinion would be to state "I like platform pedals." A more honest expansion on that admission would be "I like platform pedals because that is all I have used." You have been providing "facts" that are completely wrong, that could be misleading to anybody who doesn't know any better (i.e. the OP & anyone else who has asked for advice in this thread).
 
I will laugh my ass off if someone dies riding a fixed gear and gets hit by car.

There's a reason why those bikes are used for track racing it's because you ride in a circle and don't need to brake for on coming traffic.
 
"I often attend 1000-2000-person-plus participation-based mountain bike events. 95%-plus of these riders are using clipless. "

I love how you ask for proof of the studies I mentioned which are easily found with a google search (Or ON the second website I posted if you wanted to look and learn instead of argue), yet you expect me to believe statements like the one quoted as gospel. Here's mine - I see thousands of MTB riders all the time and half ride platforms.

Also, I pay nothing for repairs from my LBS since i bought my bike from them. They charge 75$ to put together a bike from scratch that isn't from them. That fits between the 50-100$ range that I mentioned, and is not even worth debating.

Finally, like I said again, a new rider should buy a bike that they can sit on and test ride before they spend money. A new rider will not know enough about bikes to buy one off the internet sight unseen.

Just getting mad and saying "my attempt at a rebuttal" proves my point. you want to be the expert here and don't like to be challenged in a normal discussion. I appalud you for going 50mph with your bike and never ever once falling out while being clipped in. You obviously have a big ego about riding and need the validation of being a net expert.

Not one thing I said is wrong or could be proven to be wrong by you. Instead you simply repeat yourself over and over and try to insult what I say.
 
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Power Player said:
"I often attend 1000-2000-person-plus participation-based mountain bike events. 95%-plus of these riders are using clipless. "

I love how you ask for proof of the studies I mentioned which are easily found with a google search (Or ON the second website I posted if you wanted to look and learn instead of argue), yet you expect me to believe statements like the one quoted as gospel. Here's mine - I see thousands of MTB riders all the time and half ride platforms.
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Ok. I choose to remain anonymous on these forums, and can't stay so without divulging more than I have, so I'll choose to believe your anecdotal statistic, and hope you believe mine.

Also, I pay nothing for repairs from my LBS since i bought my bike from them. They charge 75$ to put together a bike from scratch that isn't from them. That fits between the 50-100$ range that I mentioned, and is not even worth debating.
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From scratch. They're the key words there.

Finally, like I said again, a new rider should buy a bike that they can sit on and test ride before they spend money. A new rider will not know enough about bikes to buy one off the internet sight unseen.
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Very few bike stores *in my neck of the woods* provide a decent test-ride service, many offer none. I'm glad for people near you if yours indeed do.

Just getting mad and saying "my attempt at a rebuttal" proves my point. you want to be the expert here and don't like to be challenged in a normal discussion. I appalud you for going 50mph with your bike and never ever once falling out while being clipped in. You obviously have a big ego about riding and need the validation of being a net expert.

Not one thing I said is wrong or could be proven to be wrong by you. Instead you simply repeat yourself over and over and try to insult what I say.
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I assume this section of your reply is address to ATemplar as the rebuttal quote was his.
 
OOne yes, correct not all of it was towards you. You are also on the other side of the world so things are probably different since biking is heavily influenced by trends. I can go to any of the 10+ bike stores in 15 miles of me and test ride a bike. And from scratch means assembling a bike, but I was actually quoted that price when I was asking about Bikes Direct also.

Here there is a big debate on flat vs clips, as flats have become a lot more popular.

MTB is evolving so fast that there are no fixed rules on what to do. Hence my opinion on starting on flats. When I was riding MTB 10 years ago, people used toe clips. They evolved to being clipped in, and now more and more people here are going away from that to sticky shoes by 510 and platform pedals. Just look at the selection of pedals now compared to 3 years ago, it is dramatic. Bikes have changed from just being MTB bikes to All-Mountain, Downhill, CX, Dirt Jump..etc. .

I have seen some nasty injuries from people being clipped in.

This fixie craze is causing out of shape hipster kids to get hit by cars a lot more down here. I hear about it everytime I go by my LBS. Some kid has no brakes and is new to riding. The exact quote I got last time was "imagine if that guy was clipped in!!!". The best way to learn to ride fixed with no brakes is to have a basic rear break and ween yourself off of it over a long period of time.

That is all I am saying. I am never going to be brash enough to say I know everything or my word is gospel, but I am speaking from my own experience and I am definitley not giving anyone misinformation.
 
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I wouldn't recommend BD to a first time bike owner only because that person probably doesn't know what size frame they need as well other geometry issues.

I only started cyling 10 years ago and when I went into the shop to buy my first road bike, the dude took like 10 different measurements on me. I thought I was just going to sit on one to see if it was comfortable... I didn't know they'd be fitting me for a tuxedo.

I'm 75" tall and I can just imagine if I had tried to order online... My legs would be dragging on the ground and I'd probably have the saddle too far forward and my handlebars too low... or some other improper set-up.

***The above argument is bunk of course if it isn't the guy's first bike.***

As far as pedals go, I have the LOOK style pedals and you can get away with riding on the back of the pedal for a short time until you get clipped in... unlike those smaller SPD types or egg beaters.
 
A new rider isn't going to have enough riding experience to glean much from a test ride anyway. Narrow tires & more aggressive geometry is going to feel awkward, initially, to anyone who has only ridden hybrids or BMX bikes. I think that one of the most frequent complaints I hear from people who are new to road or track bikes (or even MTB's set up for XC) is "I feel too stretched out." I remember experiencing this myself. Saddle discomfort is another complaint (don't switch it out to a plush gel monstrosity!). Generally that problem is rooted in a combination of having ones saddle too low & at an angle that doesn't give much support.

If you want to buy a bike from BD, take your measurements & check out the sizing chart for whichever bike that you fancy. Have a cyclist friend take a look at it & make sure that you've set it up properly. I wouldn't recommend buying a geared bike from BD if you are new to cycling or if you don't know how to service your bike. Fixed/SS are pretty simple machines though!

BTW, PP - it's clear that you're just making stuff up. You've contradicted yourself several times now. LOL at the "exact quote" that you heard.
 
AmericanTemplar said:
A new rider isn't going to have enough riding experience to glean much from a test ride anyway. Narrow tires & more aggressive geometry is going to feel awkward, initially, to anyone who has only ridden hybrids or BMX bikes. I think that one of the most frequent complaints I hear from people who are new to road or track bikes (or even MTB's set up for XC) is "I feel too stretched out." I remember experiencing this myself. Saddle discomfort is another complaint (don't switch it out to a plush gel monstrosity!). Generally that problem is rooted in a combination of having ones saddle too low & at an angle that doesn't give much support.

If you want to buy a bike from BD, take your measurements & check out the sizing chart for whichever bike that you fancy. Have a cyclist friend take a look at it & make sure that you've set it up properly. I wouldn't recommend buying a geared bike from BD if you are new to cycling or if you don't know how to service your bike. Fixed/SS are pretty simple machines though!

BTW, PP - it's clear that you're just making stuff up. You've contradicted yourself several times now. LOL at the "exact quote" that you heard.
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Templar,

I emailed BD, let them know my needs/how I was considering the 'chrome' and 'stripper' models and here's what they recommended:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_s3x.htm

and

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_wt5.htm

Thoughts? I still like the idea of a single gear/speed, though. And like I said, my work commute is flat as a pancake. I have 2 little ones at home, so weekend riding will also be few and far between. Thanks!

By the way, I did the Flume Trail in Lake Tahoe with my father-in-law and bro-in-law over the 4th of July. Amazing! If you haven't done it, make sure you do.
 
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Kevin T said:
Templar,

I emailed BD, let them know my needs/how I was considering the 'chrome' and 'stripper' models and here's what they recommended:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_s3x.htm

and

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_wt5.htm

Thoughts? I still like the idea of a single gear/speed, though. And like I said, my work commute is flat as a pancake. I have 2 little ones at home, so weekend riding will also be few and far between. Thanks!

By the way, I did the Flume Trail in Lake Tahoe with my father-in-law and bro-in-law over the 4th of July. Amazing! If you haven't done it, make sure you do.
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I think any of the 4 would be a good choice! They're all essentially the same frame & you can't go wrong with the Kilo frame for the money! The last one that you posted looks like it could be fun, since you could put fatter tires on & ride dirt trails as well. I think you'd be happy with any of them though. I personally don't have any experience with internally geared hubs, but I have friends who have & like them.

Is the Flume Trail one of those cement gutters that you ride down with a little cart? If so, I've done those a couple of times before & they're pretty fun.
 
Enjoying this thread (well most of it) as I'm starting to ride more in an attempt at a lower impact sport to x-train for my tennis.

Anyway, normally I'm a Google master but since I know very little about biking and there are multiple terms that are kind of generic words I thought it be simpler to just ask here.

What are:

clips
clipless
platform
flats

Both my mountain bike and my road bike have basket like things I slip my forefoot into and require no special shoes but allow me to both push and pull. What are those called?

I'm pretty sure I know what "clips" are...the pedals that need the special shoes. Are those standardized or are there different types of those? Pros and cons of each clip style (assuming there are more than one)?

Thanks!
 
AmericanTemplar said:
I think any of the 4 would be a good choice! They're all essentially the same frame & you can't go wrong with the Kilo frame for the money! The last one that you posted looks like it could be fun, since you could put fatter tires on & ride dirt trails as well. I think you'd be happy with any of them though. I personally don't have any experience with internally geared hubs, but I have friends who have & like them.

Is the Flume Trail one of those cement gutters that you ride down with a little cart? If so, I've done those a couple of times before & they're pretty fun.
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Thanks, Templar.

And RE the Flume Trail...NOT a cement gutter. :) One of the best mountain biking trails in the world and usually on most of those "100 things to do before you die" lists.

http://www.theflumetrail.com/

Easily the best outdoor activity I've done this year. Three miles of pain/1000ft of elevation gain, followed by ~10-11 miles of flat mixed with nice, long descents with fantastic views of Lake Tahoe.
 
Okay, I reread some of this stuff. I'm gathering "platforms" and "flats" are one and the same?...basic pedals like my old Banana seat Schwinn used to have?!

The "baskets" I described above are "cages"?

The really confusing one is that riding "clipless" seems to actually mean riding with clips? :confused:
 
Yeah, I know how the pedal thing is confusing. Clipless means without "toe clips" (AKA cages, baskets, etc) but with step in (clip in) pedals. You're right about everything else!

I'll have to check out the flumetrail. I road Northstar almost 20 years ago when they were first opening up the mountain to MTB's & still recall it as being one of the best times I've ever had.

Edit: I just looked at some videos & that looks beautiful/awesome!

Going here on Sunday: http://vimeo.com/12375050
 
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AmericanTemplar said:
BTW, PP - it's clear that you're just making stuff up. You've contradicted yourself several times now. LOL at the "exact quote" that you heard.
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It's clear that you want to be the expert and have a huge ego about bikes, so I will let you continue to convince yourself off all these things if it makes you feel better about yourself.

If anything sounds made up, it's you saying that you never have once not gotten out of your clips before falling and that you ride your bike at 50 mph, but whatever works for ya.
 
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TheJRK said:
I wouldn't recommend BD to a first time bike owner only because that person probably doesn't know what size frame they need as well other geometry issues.

I only started cyling 10 years ago and when I went into the shop to buy my first road bike, the dude took like 10 different measurements on me. I thought I was just going to sit on one to see if it was comfortable... I didn't know they'd be fitting me for a tuxedo.

I'm 75" tall and I can just imagine if I had tried to order online... My legs would be dragging on the ground and I'd probably have the saddle too far forward and my handlebars too low... or some other improper set-up.

***The above argument is bunk of course if it isn't the guy's first bike.***

As far as pedals go, I have the LOOK style pedals and you can get away with riding on the back of the pedal for a short time until you get clipped in... unlike those smaller SPD types or egg beaters.
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Agreed 100%.

I had those hybrid pedals you are talking about also. They seemed to do each task about half as good as they should so I ended up going to platforms and never looked back.

It's a complete personal choice. If I was a roadie, I'd go clipped in, but that's about it.

ATHiker you have toe clips on your mountain bike. They are now considered undesirable for MTB, but 10 years ago were extremely common. If you are cross training for tennis and decide you want to ride clipped in, be very careful and practice unclipping a lot. Bailing and not getting unclipped in time will keep you off the courts for a while because you will land on your arms and wrists.
 
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Power Player said:
If anything sounds made up, it's you saying that you never have once not gotten out of your clips before falling and that you ride your bike at 50 mph, but whatever works for ya.
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Haha, I don't regularly "ride...[my]...bike at 50 mph," but I have gotten up to that speed spinning rapidly down big descents.

Also, I don't claim to be an expert about bikes, but I do know more than some (you, clearly) & less than others.
 
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