Flex league drama

brettatk

Semi-Pro
I'm only in my 3rd season of playing flex leagues. My partner and I have had two issues come up in two different leagues. I'll apologize in advance, this might be long.

Issue #1 - We advanced to the semifinals of the league playoffs. We only had a week to get the match in so scheduling was already tight. We all 4 decided on a day to play the match. That day came and one of the guys emailed saying there was a tournament going on and court time was hard to come by (after already telling us he had reserved a court). We said that's fine, we'll play the next Thursday on the deadline date. No other date until then worked out for all four of us. They agreed and said they had already reserved a court for next week. A few days later they come back saying one has to go out of town that they will not be getting back until late Thursday night. They asked if we could play earlier in the week but unfortunately we could not. The sent a barrage of emails saying how inflexible we were being and if anyone had to forfeit it would be us. The league said we had to show up unless we specifically heard from them that they could not play on the deadline. We drove over an hour to get to the match. Ten minutes before the match we get an email from our opponents saying they will not be there. Thanking us again for being so flexible. They knew they weren't going to be able to play yet made us drive out there for nothing.

Issue #2 (different flex league) - This was our week 2 match. We reached out to this team when the schedule came out 3 weeks prior to try and get it in. They said one of the guys wife's just had a baby, that he was going to stick around the house for a week. Perfectly understandable. So we agreed to touch base in a few weeks. 2 weeks later we contacted them again and scheduled a date to play. The day of the scheduled match one of them said he had family issues and asked to reschedule. We again agreed. The rules state that any rescheduled match automatically gets rescheduled to the deadline date unless agreed upon by all 4 to play at a different time or use what they call a "late score pass". Both of us replied back saying that we were good to play on the deadline, that we would only use the late pass if we got rained out and couldn't get it in. We heard nothing from the other team. The night of the deadline came and both of us showed up ready to play. About 15 minutes after the match was supposed to start we get an email from them requesting to use their late pass and reschedule for the next night. We thought about it and decided not to grant that request. We took the time to leave work early and sit in traffic so we could be there and play. So as the rules state, we took the forfeit since they were unavailable to play at the deadline. After they learned we took the forfeit they sent many emails insulting us and calling us names. Accusing us of needing the win more than they did. They reported it to the league and I followed up with my own email. The League came back saying we did everything right and had every right to enforce the forfeit. If we decided to reschedule we could use their late pass if we get the match in before the end of the month.

So three seasons in and we've already had two big issues. Is this what flex leagues are about? Do people that play flex leagues run into these same issues? A deadline is set for a reason. If you aren't available to play at the deadline it's not your opponent's fault. Tennis is supposed to be fun and these two issues have made it anything but fun. I almost dread scheduling our next match thinking we're going to run into more problems. I'd love to know what other people think. Is following the rules of the league not being flexible enough? Maybe flex leagues just aren't for me. Thanks for reading.
 

IA-SteveB

Hall of Fame
I don't play in flex league but I can certainly see where you get frustrated. I would be and it would probably be enough to turn me off if given the same situations you were. People are busy and I get that, but issue #1 is just plain inconsiderate. I had a friend who stopped playing it because he got fed up with scheduling and just "weird tennis people." There are a lot of those.
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
I'm confused in scenario one how the other team could play earlier in the week if the player was out of town and not returning until Thursday night?

The story doesn't add up.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
I'm confused in scenario one how the other team could play earlier in the week if the player was out of town and not returning until Thursday night?

The story doesn't add up.
He said he was going out of town early Thursday morning and would not be back until late Thursday night. This was Monday when he sent this email and requested if we could play Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday evening. My partner was going to an Atlanta Braves baseball game Monday night so we were unavailable that night. Tuesday and Wednesday I had prior engagements with my daughters choral programs at school so I was unavailable those nights. But this was all known to them well in advance when they originally agreed to play on the deadline date.
 
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ZirkusAffe

Semi-Pro
Flex doubles does not work, one team not communicating, not available or behind match it ruins all the other teams.
Guy emailed me on Friday last week to ask if we could play Saturday 9am because another team that was suppose to play could not, but I was out of town.. and it doesn't end, its a season of redundant emails with one guy not answering if he/she can play or not for days. yuck. I'm already over it looking forward to team (scheduled) tennis even with 3 matches left.
 

Devil_dog

Hall of Fame
Played in several seasons of flex leagues due to a demanding weekend work schedule. A couple of seasons I signed up for two at the same time. All singles though. Strangely in one league, I had a hella time getting people to commit to times so much so that basically only got in 2 or 3 matches. The other league I always managed to get in all but 1. The strange part? Most the same guys in my area were on both schedules. o_Oo_Oo_O And the pattern was always with the same leagues too.

Had a guy who wanted to do doubles with me in a flex and I quickly had to turn down the offer since I knew how hard it was to schedule just one guy for matches. But 4 guys would be a nightmare for me.
 
Lawyer up, threaten large monetary penalties for no shows citing loss of wages, libel, slander, mal-tennis practice, mental cruelty, duress, loss of recreation and social tracordification.
 

wsk429

Semi-Pro
It's hard enough to get committed players in a regular league. Flex leagues just seems like a schedule conflict factory with "maybe I can" and "I'll try to".
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
He said he was going out of town early Thursday morning and would not be back until late Thursday night. This was Monday when he sent this email and requested if we could play Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday evening. My partner was going to an Atlanta Braves baseball game Monday night so we were unavailable that night. Tuesday and Wednesday I had prior engagements with my daughters choral programs at school so I was unavailable those nights. But this was all known to them well in advance when they originally agreed to play on the deadline date.
Sounds like you and your partner weren't very flexible. That defeats the purpose of being in a flex league.

Congrats on playing it by the rules to get the W, but it's hard to blame the opposing team for making you follow the rules to get that win.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
We don't have flex league here but if it's anything like trying trying to reschedule a rained out league match I want no part of it.
 

navigator

Hall of Fame
I played in a singles flex league for a few seasons and there were only a few issues with scheduling - maybe a couple of bad apples, but it was generally pretty good. Obviously doubles complicates things. I think the best policy for setting matches and ruling on defaults is simple: Once the match has been set and agreed upon by all four players, there are no changes, no exceptions. Period. Once the match is set, it should be treated like a sanctioned tournament match - if a member of one team can't show up, they lose in a default. End of story. I understand the sentiment of trying to allow folks the flexibility to reschedule if something comes up, but... sh1t always comes up; that's life, especially if you're an adult. You have to set the date in stone or it won't get taken seriously - it's the nature of the beast. The "flex" part of a flex league should apply to scheduling the *initial* match, not *rescheduling* matches because one goofball forgot about his daughter's softball game that night. And, hey, there's no money at stake so taking a default shouldn't be a big deal anyway. Allowing for a bunch of reschedulings just irritates people. Just my two cents of course.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
Sounds like you and your partner weren't very flexible. That defeats the purpose of being in a flex league.

Congrats on playing it by the rules to get the W, but it's hard to blame the opposing team for making you follow the rules to get that win.
Seriously? What about them canceling the day of the scheduled match after they had already told us they reserved a court? That right there is in violation of the league rules. We could have taken the forfeit right then but wanted to do what we could to get it in. Am I supposed to tell either daughter, I'm sorry I have to play tennis so i can't go to your year end performance? Give me a break. The day I choose tennis over family is the day I never play again. Why is his having to go out of town for work more important than my daughters performances?
 
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Startzel

Hall of Fame
Seriously? What about them canceling the day of the scheduled match after they had already told us they reserved a court? That right there is in violation of the league rules. We could have taken the forfeit right then but wanted to do what we could to get it in. Am I supposed to tell either daughter, I'm sorry I have to play tennis so i can't go to your year performance? Give me a break. The day I choose tennis over family is the day I never play again. Why is his having to go out of town for work more important than my daughters performances?
If courts weren't available what do you want them to do?

They gave you three night that they could play and your team chose not play them. You and your partner were less flexible than your opponents.

And yes getting fired from your job is a much worse outcome than missing your daughter's recital.
 

navigator

Hall of Fame
Seriously? What about them canceling the day of the scheduled match after they had already told us they reserved a court? That right there is in violation of the league rules. We could have taken the forfeit right then but wanted to do what we could to get it in.
No good deed goes unpunished. You tried to be flexible beyond what the rules required and look where it got you. Everyone wants to follow the rules until it inconveniences *them.*
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
If courts weren't available what do you want them to do?

They gave you three night that they could play and your team chose not play them. You and your partner were less flexible than your opponents.

And yes getting fired from your job is a much worse outcome than missing your daughter's recital.
That is incorrect. We initially offered them two times to play the match and they agreed to the first one, then later canceled on the day of the match. We offered another time to play that didn't work for them. They offered us at least two times that worked for them but did not work for us. When that scenario happens it goes to the default date. It's not our fault they weren't available to play on that date.

And as far as not having a court, we could have easily played at our courts. But after a few emails they agreed to play on the default date at their courts.
 
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brettatk

Semi-Pro
No good deed goes unpunished. You tried to be flexible beyond what the rules required and look where it got you. Everyone wants to follow the rules until it inconveniences *them.*
Unfortunately you are exactly right. In both situations I mentioned above it basically comes down to the other team only thinking about themselves and not giving the other team any respect or consideration.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
I think most of you hit the nail on the head. Flex doubles is a nightmare to schedule. I've always done whatever I could to accommodate the other team. There are some things I'm not willing to budge from and that's family. Especially when a time to play has already been previously agreed upon. Your time is not any more important than my time. There is a difference in being flexible and being taken advantage of. In situation #2, had the other team told us at anytime prior to last night's match that they weren't going to be available, it all could have been avoided. We would have used the late pass and rescheduled the match. But they chose not to tell us anything and then expected us after showing up ready to play to agree to reschedule since they couldn't make it. You have to give respect to get respect. Also if the one guy hadn't resulted to sending derogatory emails afterwards, we still might have considered to reschedule since the league told us we could do so if we wanted. It just isn't worth the headache. After this season I'll stick to team tennis and perhaps try flex singles at some point.
 
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Startzel

Hall of Fame
That is incorrect. We initially offered them two times to play the match and they agreed to the first one, then later canceled on the day of the match. We offered another time to play that didn't work for them. They offered us at least two times that worked for them but did not work for us. When that scenario happens it goes to the default date. It's not our fault they weren't available to play on that date.

And as far as not having a court, we could have easily played at our courts. But after a few emails they agreed to play on the default date at their courts.
So what are you complaining about? The rules gave you the outcome you desired.
 

navigator

Hall of Fame
So what are you complaining about? The rules gave you the outcome you desired.
I'm guessing the primary desired outcome was to actually play a match. The secondary desired outcome was to win. The primary desired outcome was not achievable due to after-the-fact scheduling conflicts which, as a result of the nature of such conflicts, resulted in his/their (rightfully) winning via default.

It seems pretty obvious that what he's complaining about is all of the back-and-forth BS that he had to go through, which surely seems legitimate if the circumstances he outlined are accurate. The OP can correct me if I'm wrong.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
Nope, you nailed it again. I would have much preferred to have "played" the match and get the win. I didn't go into a number of other things with situation #1. They tried to tell us the day before again that there weren't any courts available on the deadline date/time but I called the club and verified there were. Then around 12:00 pm on the deadline date I called the club to find out if the guy even had a court reserved. The girl on the phone said she didn't see one but she had just seen the guy walking around the club. He was supposed to be out of town, at least that's what he told us. So I don't know what was going on. We showed up as we were instructed to do. At least this club has a full bar. We had a few beers after receiving their email and then went home. I still would have rathered played the match, win or lose.
 
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NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
The problem with Flex League is that there are too many unaccountable people playing on ambiguous terms. Captains need to make sure that their players have a variety of reliable availability. People would think im a moron for rostering a full team of churchgoers for a Sunday league, but no one says that about Flex if they roster a full team of weekday second shift workers.

In order for Flex to work you need a huge amount of league coordinator involvement. There has to be penalty for canceling, lack of communication, and forced times/dates where matches must be played if an agreement cannot be met. I'm not saying every team is a bad team, because some teams really are flexible and willing to work with you. However, for the teams that arnt, there isnt much you can do about it if they arnt flexible at all.

The hardest part of this would be making a rule set that isnt biased towards one team or another, so that a coordinator doesnt have to make any judgements, but simply enforce the rules.
 

Devil_dog

Hall of Fame
I played in a singles flex league for a few seasons and there were only a few issues with scheduling - maybe a couple of bad apples, but it was generally pretty good. Obviously doubles complicates things. I think the best policy for setting matches and ruling on defaults is simple: Once the match has been set and agreed upon by all four players, there are no changes, no exceptions. Period. Once the match is set, it should be treated like a sanctioned tournament match - if a member of one team can't show up, they lose in a default. End of story. I understand the sentiment of trying to allow folks the flexibility to reschedule if something comes up, but... sh1t always comes up; that's life, especially if you're an adult. You have to set the date in stone or it won't get taken seriously - it's the nature of the beast. The "flex" part of a flex league should apply to scheduling the *initial* match, not *rescheduling* matches because one goofball forgot about his daughter's softball game that night. And, hey, there's no money at stake so taking a default shouldn't be a big deal anyway. Allowing for a bunch of reschedulings just irritates people. Just my two cents of course.
Ideally, being "set in stone" is what I try to follow as well but like you said stuff does come up and I'm willing to make changes so long as it doesn't create more conflicts in scheduling. I usually allowed at least one additional change but any more than that then I'm passing over the match. "Ain't got no time for that" as the saying goes. Luckily, I've played enough seasons that the guys in my group know one another well enough to not pull any sort of crap when it comes to scheduling.
 

OrangePower

Legend
I'm only in my 3rd season of playing flex leagues. My partner and I have had two issues come up in two different leagues. I'll apologize in advance, this might be long...
First off I think you were in the right in both situations, and I don't mean to imply otherwise with what I'm about to say.

Having said that, perhaps your opponents had mitigating circumstances, and perhaps there was a way to resolve things in a better way for everyone.

In the first example, once you had agreed on the initial day and then the opponents could not get a court, I would have offered to host the match elsewhere. Only because I think it's easier to find an alternate venue when you already know everyone is available than to try find another time that works for everyone especially when there's not a lot of time to work with. That still does not excuse your opponents behavior later, but if you look at it from their perspective, perhaps they did not believe that you really could not make it prior to the Thursday, and that you were being a hard-ass. Maybe they had previous bad experiences (not with you) that made them suspicious of this. Anyway, I think this is a situation where perhaps explaining your family situation to them could have maybe defused things.

In the second situation, after you responded back to them that you were good to play on the deadline, and then you didn't hear anything back from them, I would have contacted them again to confirm. It's not your job to be their secretary, but some people are just not that organized, maybe they just let it fall through the cracks and not realize it until the actual day/time of the match. Their fault, but still I personally would not leave work early and battle traffic to get to a match that the opponents have not specifically confirmed for ;-)

You deal with people long enough, you realize that not everyone is on top of things the way you'd assume... so a little bit more effort in communicating proactively can go a long way in preventing potential issues.
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
I'm guessing the primary desired outcome was to actually play a match. The secondary desired outcome was to win. The primary desired outcome was not achievable due to after-the-fact scheduling conflicts which, as a result of the nature of such conflicts, resulted in his/their (rightfully) winning via default.

It seems pretty obvious that what he's complaining about is all of the back-and-forth BS that he had to go through, which surely seems legitimate if the circumstances he outlined are accurate. The OP can correct me if I'm wrong.
He had opportunities in both circumstances to actually play. Instead he chose to be a hardliner about the rules to get the forfeit.
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
First off I think you were in the right in both situations, and I don't mean to imply otherwise with what I'm about to say.

Having said that, perhaps your opponents had mitigating circumstances, and perhaps there was a way to resolve things in a better way for everyone.

In the first example, once you had agreed on the initial day and then the opponents could not get a court, I would have offered to host the match elsewhere. Only because I think it's easier to find an alternate venue when you already know everyone is available than to try find another time that works for everyone especially when there's not a lot of time to work with. That still does not excuse your opponents behavior later, but if you look at it from their perspective, perhaps they did not believe that you really could not make it prior to the Thursday, and that you were being a hard-ass. Maybe they had previous bad experiences (not with you) that made them suspicious of this. Anyway, I think this is a situation where perhaps explaining your family situation to them could have maybe defused things.

In the second situation, after you responded back to them that you were good to play on the deadline, and then you didn't hear anything back from them, I would have contacted them again to confirm. It's not your job to be their secretary, but some people are just not that organized, maybe they just let it fall through the cracks and not realize it until the actual day/time of the match. Their fault, but still I personally would not leave work early and battle traffic to get to a match that the opponents have not specifically confirmed for ;-)

You deal with people long enough, you realize that not everyone is on top of things the way you'd assume... so a little bit more effort in communicating proactively can go a long way in preventing potential issues.
Well said. But I think we can go even further. The OP legitimately asked why a man's job is more important than his daughter's recital.

If you aren't level headed enough to understand why the way someone feeds his or her family is more important than a child's choral performance, it's hard to believe you could actually be reasonable trying to schedule these matches.
 

navigator

Hall of Fame
He had opportunities in both circumstances to actually play. Instead he chose to be a hardliner about the rules to get the forfeit.
He had opportunities to play... at considerable inconvenience to himself and his partner (*after* the details of the original match had been agreed upon). My motto is: A fvck-up on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
He had opportunities to play... at considerable inconvenience to himself and his partner (*after* the details of the original match had been agreed upon). My motto is: A fvck-up on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
That's fine if that's your attitude, just don't try to convince us you actually prioritize actually playing.
 

navigator

Hall of Fame
That's fine if that's your attitude, just don't try to convince us you actually prioritize actually playing.
Straw man alert! I prioritize playing like most folks. But, also like most folks, I have my limitations regarding accommodations. I suspect you do as well. Back to your regularly-scheduled trolling...
 

FedLIKEnot

Professional
I won't even co-captain a USTA team so this would be a no go for me. Does seem like you guys tried and seems like they tried to some degree. But in the end the rules are what they are so if it states that after everyone's best efforts you play the match on the last day of deadline they should expect that.
 

kingcheetah

Hall of Fame
I played in one singles flex league, and it was a headache with some of the spacier players, one guy emailed wanting to play, we warm up, he decides he's got a leg injury, ends up not playing a real match, but wanting to hit/play out groundstroke points, then at the end of the night comments on how that was the best he's ever hit o_O
 

OrangePower

Legend
I won't even co-captain a USTA team so this would be a no go for me. Does seem like you guys tried and seems like they tried to some degree. But in the end the rules are what they are so if it states that after everyone's best efforts you play the match on the last day of deadline they should expect that.
Man, don't get me started on captaining and reschedules! We've had a somewhat wet few months here in Norcal after several years of no rain at all, so we've had a few weather-related reschedules required. It's just not fun. Makes me want to take next season off, or at least have someone else captain and I will just show up and play when I'm told to!
 

Max G.

Legend
With four people, the only way to make it work is to be a stickler to schedules.

At the earliest possible time, send out an email listing the dates/times you're available (having already worked this out with your partner.) If they don't agree to any of those times, then you play on the deadline date. Once you agree on a date, stick to it unless they tell you well in advance that they have to reschedule. If they reschedule at the last minute, just take the default.

Yes, we'd all rather play than not play, and playing win or lose would be much preferable to winning by default. But on the other hand, winning by default is preferable to endless back-and-forths about schedules, having to cancel plans all the time because matches keep being rescheduled and agreed-on dates/times are being treated as maybes and suggestions.
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
Yes, we'd all rather play than not play, and playing win or lose would be much preferable to winning by default. But on the other hand, winning by default is preferable to endless back-and-forths about schedules, having to cancel plans all the time because matches keep being rescheduled and agreed-on dates/times are being treated as maybes and suggestions.
I can see it now...

"OH, SO YOU'D RATHER NOT PLAY AND WIN? PLAYING MUST NOT BE IMPORTANT TO YOU!"
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
First off I think you were in the right in both situations, and I don't mean to imply otherwise with what I'm about to say.

Having said that, perhaps your opponents had mitigating circumstances, and perhaps there was a way to resolve things in a better way for everyone.

In the first example, once you had agreed on the initial day and then the opponents could not get a court, I would have offered to host the match elsewhere. Only because I think it's easier to find an alternate venue when you already know everyone is available than to try find another time that works for everyone especially when there's not a lot of time to work with. That still does not excuse your opponents behavior later, but if you look at it from their perspective, perhaps they did not believe that you really could not make it prior to the Thursday, and that you were being a hard-ass. Maybe they had previous bad experiences (not with you) that made them suspicious of this. Anyway, I think this is a situation where perhaps explaining your family situation to them could have maybe defused things.

In the second situation, after you responded back to them that you were good to play on the deadline, and then you didn't hear anything back from them, I would have contacted them again to confirm. It's not your job to be their secretary, but some people are just not that organized, maybe they just let it fall through the cracks and not realize it until the actual day/time of the match. Their fault, but still I personally would not leave work early and battle traffic to get to a match that the opponents have not specifically confirmed for ;-)

You deal with people long enough, you realize that not everyone is on top of things the way you'd assume... so a little bit more effort in communicating proactively can go a long way in preventing potential issues.
We did offer to play at our courts that first date we were supposed to play. I did not mention that earlier. They didn't want to drive (it's about an hour away) to our courts and then said they've already reserved a court for the deadline time/date. Believe me, I felt bad about not being available. Typically I'm available just about any evening of the week. Just a lot of end of year things going on that week that I wasn't willing to miss.

I agree 100%, we should have followed up on the second situation. I'm betting it ran through the other teams head as well but nobody said anything. That's a mistake I will not make again in a flex league. With 4 people involved, it almost seems necessary for someone to micromanage.

About my comment on why is his work more important than my daughter's performance... All I meant is that his time isn't any more valuable than my time. Regardless of what the excuse was for not playing, neither of us could play at those times. That's the end of it, go on to the next available date. If there is none then you play on the deadline. I'm sure some people do use the system to try and get a win by forfeit, but that was not the case here.
 

tennis_ocd

Hall of Fame
What a mess.... Scheduling four working, family guys and court time sounds quite difficult. Do they have an "outlook" type calendar where players must put in a few open slots to see when times mesh?
 
You would have lost your match in the Flex league I play. If you can't offer at least 3 days as options for playing, and the match can't be scheduled, you lose. Personally, I think that's a fair rule.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
What a mess.... Scheduling four working, family guys and court time sounds quite difficult. Do they have an "outlook" type calendar where players must put in a few open slots to see when times mesh?
That might make too much sense. During the regular season, each team is supposed to give the other team 3 legitimate options to play. If none of those times work out then you have to play on the deadline. When the playoffs come you are required to give 2 legitimate options. Most of the time you have 2 weeks to get it scheduled but it's still hard with 4 people. That's why we try to play matches early whenever we get the chance.

You would have lost your match in the Flex league I play. If you can't offer at least 3 days as options for playing, and the match can't be scheduled, you lose. Personally, I think that's a fair rule.
It is 3 options for regular season play, in the playoffs that goes down to 2 options in the league I played in. Reason being is you don't have as much time to get the playoff match in as you do a regular season match.
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
.


About my comment on why is his work more important than my daughter's performance... All I meant is that his time isn't any more valuable than my time. Regardless of what the excuse was for not playing, neither of us could play at those times. That's the end of it, go on to the next available date. If there is none then you play on the deadline. I'm sure some people do use the system to try and get a win by forfeit, but that was not the case here.
Their time isn't more valuable than your time. However their extenuating circumstance was much more important than your extenuating circumstance.

At the end of the day you forced them to forefeit the match. You made them play by the rules but then you're upset they made you play by the rules and actually show up to accept be forefeit.

It's a shame you don't realize you are being selfish and wanting a double standard.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
I would never make a team show up to play a match if I knew we weren't going to be able to play. If you think that is alright then I really have nothing else to say to you. It all comes down to being a decent person. They chose not to be. Had we been able to play those days but still chose not to then you could say the same about us, but that wasn't the case.
 
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kingcheetah

Hall of Fame
I'm only in my 3rd season of playing flex leagues. My partner and I have had two issues come up in two different leagues. I'll apologize in advance, this might be long.

Issue #1 - We advanced to the semifinals of the league playoffs. We only had a week to get the match in so scheduling was already tight. We all 4 decided on a day to play the match. That day came and one of the guys emailed saying there was a tournament going on and court time was hard to come by (after already telling us he had reserved a court). We said that's fine, we'll play the next Thursday on the deadline date. No other date until then worked out for all four of us. They agreed and said they had already reserved a court for next week. A few days later they come back saying one has to go out of town that they will not be getting back until late Thursday night. They asked if we could play earlier in the week but unfortunately we could not. The sent a barrage of emails saying how inflexible we were being and if anyone had to forfeit it would be us. The league said we had to show up unless we specifically heard from them that they could not play on the deadline. We drove over an hour to get to the match. Ten minutes before the match we get an email from our opponents saying they will not be there. Thanking us again for being so flexible. They knew they weren't going to be able to play yet made us drive out there for nothing.

Issue #2 (different flex league) - This was our week 2 match. We reached out to this team when the schedule came out 3 weeks prior to try and get it in. They said one of the guys wife's just had a baby, that he was going to stick around the house for a week. Perfectly understandable. So we agreed to touch base in a few weeks. 2 weeks later we contacted them again and scheduled a date to play. The day of the scheduled match one of them said he had family issues and asked to reschedule. We again agreed. The rules state that any rescheduled match automatically gets rescheduled to the deadline date unless agreed upon by all 4 to play at a different time or use what they call a "late score pass". Both of us replied back saying that we were good to play on the deadline, that we would only use the late pass if we got rained out and couldn't get it in. We heard nothing from the other team. The night of the deadline came and both of us showed up ready to play. About 15 minutes after the match was supposed to start we get an email from them requesting to use their late pass and reschedule for the next night. We thought about it and decided not to grant that request. We took the time to leave work early and sit in traffic so we could be there and play. So as the rules state, we took the forfeit since they were unavailable to play at the deadline. After they learned we took the forfeit they sent many emails insulting us and calling us names. Accusing us of needing the win more than they did. They reported it to the league and I followed up with my own email. The League came back saying we did everything right and had every right to enforce the forfeit. If we decided to reschedule we could use their late pass if we get the match in before the end of the month.
Honestly, you're more patient than I would have been. Issue #1 I would have been close to taking the forfeit after the first try screwup-- at least you didn't have to drive. Don't tell someone you have a court unless you actually do. Then you all agreed on the default (deadline day), and they had another excuse after the fact. Not giving you notice was downright disrespectful, and if I were commissioner of a league and someone did something like that, they'd be toast.

Issue two is interesting. I would have done the same as you with the guy who had a new baby, and probably have granted the one w/ a family issue a reschedule, but to email 15 minutes AFTER the match is supposed to start asking to reschedule is completely unacceptable. Try calling in sick to an important meeting 15 minutes after it was supposed to start and see what happens. If I left work early and dealt with traffic to play tennis, and someone no-showed then asked for a reschedule, I would be livid.

Overall, I think you did the right thing, and you could use commissioners with more guts that would go after players that waste people's time.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
Their time isn't more valuable than your time. However their extenuating circumstance was much more important than your extenuating circumstance.

At the end of the day you forced them to forefeit the match. You made them play by the rules but then you're upset they made you play by the rules and actually show up to accept be forefeit.

It's a shame you don't realize you are being selfish and wanting a double standard.
Depends on your priorities.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
I would never make someone forefeit because my team was too busy to play for three consecutive nights.

A decent person doesn't do that.
I guess you would tell your son/daughter "I'm sorry, I know you've been working hard all year to learn this music but I have to go play tennis tonight and will not be able to come to your performance." That right there tells me everything I need to know about you. As kevrol said, it's about your priorities. It seems family is not too high on your list.
 
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Startzel

Hall of Fame
I guess you would tell your son/daughter "I'm sorry, I know you've been working hard all year to learn this music but I have to go play tennis tonight and will not be able to come to your performance." That right there tells me everything I need to know about you. As kevrol said, it's about your priorities. It seems family is not too high on your list.
Are you intentionally making false dilemmas?

No. I would go to my daughter's performance and forefeit my match to my opponent because I was the one being unwilling to compromise.

The world doesn't revolve around you. I'm sorry you can't see that.
 

FedLIKEnot

Professional
Man, don't get me started on captaining and reschedules! We've had a somewhat wet few months here in Norcal after several years of no rain at all, so we've had a few weather-related reschedules required. It's just not fun. Makes me want to take next season off, or at least have someone else captain and I will just show up and play when I'm told to!
I live in Vacaville and yea we still have two make up matches and while it won't affect us for playoffs it'll affect the 2nd and 3rd team so we have to make it work. And it's a blessing that I just have to say yes or no to a match. Haha.
 
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