Floating vs. Fixed Clamps

hmm

New User
How much better are fixed clamps than floating clamps. I am deciding between the new Laserfibre Quantum for $379 and the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus for $399. I hear that Laserfibre has a better tensioning system and they both have a similar mounting style. So the only difference to me is that the Laserfibre has flying clamps while the Alpha's clamps are fixed. Should I buy the Laserfibre or Alpha stringer?
 

Pete LSD

New User
Always go for the fixed clamps :). The LaserFibre tensioner should be very easy to use. I have a feeling that the LF tensioner is similar in operation as the SW's.
 

hmm

New User
How much better is the smart tensioning system of the Laserfibre and SW machines that the Alpha systems. I always hear people praising how great it is. Does is make up for the fact that it has floating clamps?
 

Pete LSD

New User
Smart tensioning system is easier to use than traditional drop-weight tensioner.

For the Quantum, I think you can upgrade later to fixed clamps.

How much better is the smart tensioning system of the Laserfibre and SW machines that the Alpha systems. I always hear people praising how great it is. Does is make up for the fact that it has floating clamps?
 

User Name

Semi-Pro
please, get the fixed, it will save you soooooo much of a hassle. In all likelyhood, the fixed clamps will make the stringjob more accurate than a better tension head
 

fastdunn

Legend
To me, it would be a tough decision.

Fixed clamp is a major improvement over floating one.
But the major issue with a drop weight is the multiple adjustments
I had to make.

I would personally go with Laserfibre because the hassle of adjusting
drop weight was too much for me but I guess it's your personal choice.
 

eagle

Hall of Fame
I started with the floating clamps (Laserfibre). I then later upgraded my stringer fixed clamps. Love it. No regrets. I still use the floating clamps once in a while though.

But even if I never upgraded to fixed I would have been happy with the floating clamps since the Laserfibre clamps are topnotch quality.

r,
eagle
 

todot62

Rookie
I'm a BIG fan of the Stringway (LaserFibre) smart tensioning system. I learned on a Neos about a year ago and strung about 30-40 racquets on it. It is considered the "standard" and it was a very good machine. I bought a used LF MS200TT w/ Flying clamps (two-9mm and one-18mm triple clamp) about three months ago for $400. Even with the flying clamps it is faster, for me, than the Neos. The clamps work fantastic and the smart tensioning system is extremely fast and precise. Not to mention the mounting system and customer service. With the technique I use, I will not spend the money to upgrade to fixed clamps, but that's me. Others may/will have a different view.

You can go to (Grand Slam Stringers dot com) and look at the "JC stringing method" under "machines/tools" in the forum for information on pros and cons of flying clamps. To see the full discussion look under "best floating clamps?"

Now having said all of this. From talking with Tim, the LaserFibre Quantum series sounds like it will have all the benefits of the SW at about $150-200 less. They are able to save quite a bit just on the exchange rate alone, by producing them in the USA. If I were you, I would wait to see what this looks like before I did anything. You can't go wrong with either company. The SW-Alpha at $799 w/fixed clamps (I don't think flying clamps are an option) or the LF with fixed clamps at $599. When you consider either way the cost of fixed vs flying will only be a difference of maybe $50, I would take GOOD fixed clamps any day. But I would always choose GOOD flying clamps over fair fixed clamps. Again, IMHO.

Tod
 

goosala

Hall of Fame
Fixed clamps hold tension way better. When you clamp a floating clamp to a string you can see how it has some give. Fixed clamps do not move when you clamp down on the string thereby holding tension better.
 

tennispro93

New User
fixed clamps are the best dont even think about it i have have fixed calmps they are way way better i may be a rookie for this website if been strignging raquets for 28 years about i have used every type of stringing mahine known to earth fixed clamps all the way
 

todot62

Rookie
Anyone who says they hate flying clamps has never strung with stringway flying clamps. Just look at this tread. The two people who have strung with SW flying clamps are the only two that say flying clamps are not that big of a deal. ;)

As far as "kick-back" (or a clamps tendency to give up a bit of tension when the pull is released) is concerned, it could be argued that fixed clamps have MORE kickback than SW flying clamps. How can I say this? All fixed rotating clamps, even expensive Babolat clamps, (not so much fixed sliding clamps like the Neos or Ektelon), will have some "kickback." On a fixed clamp system it is possible but time consuming to recover all of that "kickback" on the next pull. Every pull drops just a bit of tension that adds up over the entire string bed. If not compensated for, there will be some tension loss over your reference tension. In most cases a machine with GOOD fixed clamps will give up a very small amount of tension over the entire job; bad fixed clamps will give up more. Not really a big deal because there are so many other factors that figure into a loss of tension from your reference tension. It's all of those small things that separate good stringers from bad stringers (stringers being the one who is doing the stringing). That's why some people can tell when someone else strings their racquet on the same machine.

With SW flying clamps, as Goosala states, they pull back or "kickback" when tension is released much more than fixed clamps; however, ALL of that tension is recovered on the next pull. This is all great and fine except for the first and last pull. With flying clamps you must "double-pull" the first string (which can be compensated for with your tension setting) and you cannot recover the "kick-back" on the tie-off (nor can you with fixed clamps, but a again this can be compensated for with tension setting). SW overcame this last problem somewhat with the invention of the triple clamp, which clamps three strings. IMHO, this triple clamp is as good as a fixed for tie-offs. If you don’t compensate for this with tension setting you will lose tension either way.

So to say ALL fixed clamps are better than ALL flying clamps is an over generalization.

But to get back to the original poster’s question: LF Quantum with fixed clamps vs SW ML100 with flying clamps. As I stated before, I would wait to see what the Quantum looks like. If LF history is any indication then you will most likely be happier with the LF because most people, for the same price, would take a GOOD fixed clamp over a GOOD flying clamp any day, me included. From everything I've read and from speaking to Tim at LF, the new Quantum will be the one to beat at this price point. But you can't go wrong either way.

Tod
 
Anyone who says they hate flying clamps has never strung with stringway flying clamps. Just look at this thread. The two people who have strung with SW flying clamps are the only two that say flying clamps are not that big of a deal.
. . . . .
Tod

An interesting post, with an excellent explanation by someone who obviously understands what he is doing and knows how to explain it because he is writing about his own experiences. :grin:

This is pleasant change, I would be far more inclined to participate in these discussions, if there were some more posts of this quality. Whether you agree or not with what has been explained, is only important if you can contribute with first hand knowledge and opinions that are based on your personal experiences.

There are often good reasons and credible explanations for most subjects that are present in the debates or where there are conflicting points of view. What I don't understand is that some posters state their opinion then try to impose it. This is frequent when the opinion is expressed by someone who has no knowledge of the opposite point of view. This thread is quite a good example of this tendancy. :sad:

We can all learn something new in stringing, to be open enough to consider and eventually try something different can be a very positive experience. Stringing can be anything from a laborious past time to a fine craft, everything depends on the capacity of the person who strings the racquet to do it well and the quality of his tools of trade, because as we know, a good craftsman is only as good as his tools, so he has every interest to choose them well and to use them intelligently.

The single most important element in stringing is the quality of the clamps, whether they be flying clamps or fixed clamps (single or double action, on guide rails or pivoting), all systems can be excellent, average or badly adapted to do the job, no matter what system is used it is extremely important that the clamps do the job very well. If this is not the case, no matter how good the rest of the machine is, it is impossible to string well.

The next most important element is the racquet support system, this is far more important in a fixed clamp machine than it is with flying clamps. It's all about distortion of the cradle, stress on the frame and eventual loss of tension across the stringbed. This is a very interesting topic that could be initiated if there are enough people interested in participating.

Finally you have the tensioner, the most accurate system is a very good, well calibrated drop weight. It is not the fastest, nor the most convenient to use, but it is the most accurate and the most constant system available.
The very best electronique machines do a very good job of reproducing the constant pull characteristics of a good DW System. As for the other tensioners, this can be a vast subject of discussions and heated debates, at some other time.

Tod, thanks for your comments on the StringWay flying clamps, I agree with you entirely, unfortunately they are really an exception, but it's great to know that they exist and that they do the job perfectly. ;)

Of course your positive findings with the SW clamps are not necessarily applicable for the vast majority of the flying clamps available in the market. In general I would be far less inclined to recommend using flying clamps if they are not the original StringWay flying clamps. Great flying clamps can be as good or even better than a good fixed clamp system, but they have to be very good, if they are not, go for the fixed clamps . . .

JC. :cool:
 
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I bought a used LF MS200TT w/ Flying clamps (two-9mm and one-18mm triple clamp) The clamps work fantastic . . .
You can go to (Grand Slam Stringers dot com) and look at the "JC stringing method" under "machines/tools" in the forum for information on pros and cons of flying clamps.
To see the full discussion look under "best floating clamps?"
Tod
Tod,
As you are one of the very few stringers who have already acquired a Stringway Triple Clamp, this post is directed to you because you can try something different to finish off your mains. As you are well aware the main reason that this clamp was introduced was to minimize the twist, a serious cause of tension loss on the last main before the knot.

In my explanation of my method of stringing using the SW double + triple flying clamps, I recommend jumping from the 6th main to the 8th main then the 7th main with a double pull on the 7th and 8th (for a 16 main string racquet), then clamping the 5th+6th+7th main with the triple clamp, tie-off on the grommet of the 6th. (with a regular flying clamp, you would only clamp the 6th+7th main).

I have recently changed the clamping position for the SW triple clamp, now I am clamping the 6th+7th+8th mains, then ty-off of the 7th main on the grommet of the 6th. There is absolutely no draw-back on the 7th main. I have never seen such accuracy on the last main before tie-off, no matter what the machine nor the fixed clamping system. With the SW triple flying clamp used this way, the last main tensioned before the knot is just as tight as the mains on either side. Unbelievable.:-D

I have firmly believed since several years that SW flying clamps are more efficient than most fixed clamps, but there has always been the problem of loss of tension on the last main before the tie-off. With the triple clamp and this method, this problem has been totally illiminated. ;-)

Give it a try, I am certain that you will be just as impressed as I am.

JC.:cool:
 
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todot62

Rookie
Thanks JC. I'm going to string my racquet up in the next couple of days and I'll give it a try. I keep singing the praises of SW Flying clamps but I don't know how many are listening! :rolleyes:
Tod
 
Thanks JC. I'm going to string my racquet up in the next couple of days and I'll give it a try. I keep singing the praises of SW Flying clamps but I don't know how many are listening!
Tod

Yeh, it's much easier to believe when you can try it for yourself. :)

Unfortunately, fixed ideas and old wives tales are hard to overcome, most people tend to follow the mainstream thoughts and beliefs, changes in habits are difficult to initiate, :confused:
but slowly the message is sinking in.

It's a question of time before more and more stringers start re-thinking their priorities. It's pleasent to be ahead of the times, just keep in mind a famous expression in French from Victor Hugo :
"Nothing is more powerful than an idea who's time has come"

For SW Flying Clamps and my method to use them based on the SW Triple Clamp, the time has yet to come, but it's looming on the horizon, and you know that I am right. . . :p

I am particularly interested in the results of you test.
JC. :cool:
 

Gaines Hillix

Hall of Fame
I've strung hundreds of rackets on a half dozen machines, two of which were drop weights. All else being equal, I prefer fixed clamps(experience on two Alpha machines, a Neos and a Bab Sensor). There is less draw back and twisting and there are no double pulls required. I've developed a technique that I use on my Alpha Apex that nearly eliminates all draw back in the clamps when the tension head is released. The starting procedure for the mains is much simpler with fixed clamps. You also never have to worry about handling rackets with a fan string pattern. The LF/SW flying clamps have been rated head and shoulders over other brands of flying clamps for a long time, but I'd still prefer to use a good quality set of fixed clamps.
 
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eagle

Hall of Fame
I attribute my selection of the Laserfibre system to Jaycee (from stringforum.net). Big thank you to him.

One of the best purchases/investments I've ever made.

Thanks,
eagle
 

rasajadad

Hall of Fame
After you try to string one Prince O/S, a Prince O3, or one of those fan pattern Wilson's tell me how much you like flying clamps.
 
I attribute my selection of the Laserfibre system to Jaycee (from stringforum.net). Big thank you to him.
One of the best purchases/investments I've ever made.
Thanks,
eagle

Thanks Eagle,

I'm the same JayCee and I still believe as strongly as ever in Stringway, but today my message is that you can also string very well with the SW Flying Clamps, which are an interesting and economical alternative to the SW fixed clamps, or any other fixed clamps on the market.

Of course as you well know from your personal experience that the SW double action fixed clamps, (and, of course, the SW single action clamps), are probably the best clamping systems currently available and they are exactly the same on a SW ML.100 (table top DW machine) as a SW EM.450 (Electronic Pro machine at 5 times the price).

As the budget often determines the choice, you just need to find the most appropriate machine for your needs. As long as the choice is coherent with the applications required, you can't go wrong, a SW will always be a sound investment. ;)

JC. :cool:
 

todot62

Rookie
After you try to string one Prince O/S, a Prince O3, or one of those fan pattern Wilson's tell me how much you like flying clamps.

I've strung a Prince O/S and the O3 many times with no problems whatsoever. In fact, I would put my stringbed consistency up against anyone with fixed clamps, on any machine. I've not strung a fan yet, but I would anticipate that it will be no problem as well.

I repeat what I have said before: The only people that complain about flying clamps are those that have never used SW flying clamps. It’s not like I can’t afford fixed clamps, I CHOOSE to use SW flying clamps because they work extremely well, are very portable, VERY fast, consistent and universal.

How much do I like my SW Flying clamps now? Very well, thank you very much!

Tod
 

todot62

Rookie
Tod,
As you are one of the very few stringers who have already acquired a Stringway Triple Clamp, this post is directed to you because you can try something different to finish off your mains. As you are well aware the main reason that this clamp was introduced was to minimize the twist, a serious cause of tension loss on the last main before the knot.

In my explanation of my method of stringing using the SW double + triple flying clamps, I recommend jumping from the 6th main to the 8th main then the 7th main with a double pull on the 7th and 8th (for a 16 main string racquet), then clamping the 5th+6th+7th main with the triple clamp, tie-off on the grommet of the 6th. (with a regular flying clamp, you would only clamp the 6th+7th main).

I have recently changed the clamping position for the SW triple clamp, now I am clamping the 6th+7th+8th mains, then ty-off of the 7th main on the grommet of the 6th. There is absolutely no draw-back on the 7th main. I have never seen such accuracy on the last main before tie-off, no matter what the machine nor the fixed clamping system. With the SW triple flying clamp used this way, the last main tensioned before the knot is just as tight as the mains on either side. Unbelievable.:-D

I have firmly believed since several years that SW flying clamps are more efficient than most fixed clamps, but there has always been the problem of loss of tension on the last main before the tie-off. With the triple clamp and this method, this problem has been totally illiminated. ;-)

Give it a try, I am certain that you will be just as impressed as I am.

JC.:cool:


I used the technique today and it works perfectly. It makes sense when you think about it because the string being pulled is centered between two tensioned strings. There is no place for the string to drawback. I can't believe I didn't think of it! :rolleyes:

It makes me wonder if this could be applied to the last two crosses as well? On a 16x20 for example, move from 18 to 20 then back to 19 and clamp 18-19-20? Although with the crosses I get very little drawback anyway.

I think even if I had fixed clamps I would only use them to start the mains and the crosses. After that I would start using the flying clamps because they are so much faster. Now with the triple, SW has solved the main tie-off problem as well.

Thanks for your input and help,
Tod
 
I used the technique today and it works perfectly. It makes sense when you think about it because the string being pulled is centered between two tensioned strings. There is no place for the string to drawback. I can't believe I didn't think of it!
It makes me wonder if this could be applied to the last two crosses as well? On a 16x20 for example, move from 18 to 20 then back to 19 and clamp 18-19-20?
Although with the crosses I get very little drawback anyway.
Tod
I was sure that you would be very pleased with the SW triple clamp used this way to finish the mains. ;)

For the crosses, as you have noted, the twist or draw-back is very limited because the clamp is maintained in line by both the mains and the crosses. The very wide space between the outer jaws when the 2 center pieces are clamped together allows you to clamp very close to the frame when the last 2 cross strings are widley spaced . . .
this is impossible with most other flying clamps. :(

It would be unlikely that you could clamp the last 3 crosses #18+19+20 because of this large space between the crosses 19 & 20.

If however, you can place the SW triple clamp 1 cross higher up 17-18-19 for an 16x20, (or 16-17-18 for a 16x19) then it could be a good option, but you would need to jump the cross just below the anchor string for the knot (or just above if the tie off is on the 2nd last cross like the Babolat P.D.) then weave in the last 2 crosses do a double-pull, clamp (large), before finishing the remaining cross to tie off on the adjacent grommet on the anchor string.

In this case no problem to position the last string in the center of the triple clamp. That would be "perfection guaranteed".
Draw-back = 0. :lol:

I think even if I had fixed clamps I would only use them to start the mains and the crosses. After that I would start using the flying clamps because they are so much faster. Now with the triple, SW has solved the main tie-off problem as well.

This is what "FrenchOpen" has opted for. In his tennis shop he has a Babolat Electronic Machine with 1 central fixed clamp, which he only uses to start and to finish the mains and crosses. He uses the SW flying clamps for all the other operations. He doesn't have a SW triple clamp yet, but it won't be long before he acquires one.

Thanks for your feed-back, we can all learn something from each other's experiences.
JC. :cool:
 
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eagle

Hall of Fame
Hi Jaycee,

Yes, I knew it was you. :)

Anyway, it would be awesome if you could post a video or two of the above procedure and any other techniques you employ.

Thanks,
eagle
 
Hi Jaycee,
Yes, I knew it was you. :)
Anyway, it would be awesome if you could post a video or two of the above procedure and any other techniques you employ.
Thanks,
eagle

Hey Man,
You're the web-site and video specialist, not me, I'm just a stringer (and proud of it . . .) :p

I would like to be the star of a short film, but I doubt that it would bring in big audiences, the subject is just not exciting enough for most people. There must be an easier way to earn a few bucks. :sad:

If I ever get the opportunity to turn a video (on stringing methods), I'll certainly send you a "rush" so that you can make something interesting out of it all.

Thanks for your support,
JC. :cool:
 
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