Florian Meier serve course

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Finster, May 31, 2015.

  1. Finster

    Finster New User

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    He has very big claims. Is this video course for real? Anyone used it? Thanks.
     
    #1
  2. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Legend

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    Yeah..haven't tried it yet.

    Certainly seems kinda tempting.. I like his video of one guy who took it and improved because of video.. it's like he read my mind.. I don't care about guys who improve by working with that coach - because you were not going to be working with a coaching - only watching video. Price is okay too.

    Let me know how it works out for you. Go for it. :p
     
    #2
  3. Federvich

    Federvich Rookie

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    I purchased it about a week ago. There are good videos in there. He also will analyze a video of your serve. Both the videos and the actual analysis are helpful. I've fixed a few hitches in my serve, and am improving a bit. It all takes time. But for the cost of it with a discount, it's less than a lesson, so I say it was worth it.
     
    #3
  4. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Legend

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    I am giving it a prelim thumbs up too. I like the progression part of it. I haven't put more then say 2 hours into it yet.. So its going to take a while. My throwing motion is pretty poor for a man, IMHO.
     
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  5. Flatballs

    Flatballs Banned

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    Anyone got a link to the actual course? There is nothing specific on his website
     
    #5
  6. Federvich

    Federvich Rookie

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    #6
  7. Flatballs

    Flatballs Banned

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    It looks really good. Im interested in his mental game book too. I was going to pay the $47, until it came to checking out and the exchange rate kicked in :(
     
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  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    It will improve the serve of someone using a pancake motion and forehand grip.
    It will not improve Pete Sampras's serve whatsoever.
     
    #8
  9. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Legend

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    For most people going from pancake to proper serve is a huge boost. Common serve problems - hitch and pancake...that's pretty much all you see here.

    If you can fix those - you can serve really big without anything fancy.. You don't need legs. You don't need a big shoulder tilt. You don't need the archers bow etc.
     
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    ALWAYS, be wary of the person who says HIS way is the right way...
     
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  11. Federvich

    Federvich Rookie

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    This.
     
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  12. thebigz

    thebigz Rookie

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    I like Top Tennis Training bit more but never tried any of their paid course
     
    #12
  13. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

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    I had Florian do an analysis of my son's forehand and he really helped.
     
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  14. atp2015

    atp2015 Hall of Fame

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    I tried the serve blue print course recently and I think it's a great value. I was really impressed by the results and also how little time was needed to make the tweaks for significant improvement. My serve was not that bad to begin with and was averaging 3 aces per set at my level (4). But I ran into a roadblock with my 2nd serve when I tried to make it better. After trying to work on it my own for couple of months I decided to try the serve course. It helped my serve like I never expected.
     
    #14
  15. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    Chas Tennis and a couple others shall do that for free here. ;)
     
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  16. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Hall of Fame

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    Interesting. So you were already a 4.0+ player and it helped with your second serve. Did you find the videos too simple for your relatively advanced level?
    Did you upload a second serve video to him for analysis?

    He has a 2 minute sample here but I'm wondering how thoroughly he goes through everything in the motion and approximately how many minutes his analysis is.


     
    #16
  17. atp2015

    atp2015 Hall of Fame

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    The serve course has 40+ videos and TBH, 30+ of them are probably not useful for me though it will be great for someone looking to build a proper serve motion from scratch. I wish I had come across Florian's lessons when was a 3.0 player and would
    have saved several hitting sessions(some with a $$ pro) to get to my current serve level.
    What was useful for me was the "common problems & fixes" section. My first serve was good enough in terms of quality and percentage, but was struggling with my second serves after I got moved up to 4. Whenever I missed 1st serve, I was getting attacked or was making DFs when I tried to put more. His videos convinced me that I should hit 1st and 2nd serves identically and only with a minor adjustment(to the upward angle and safe targets) instead of trying to bring the racket up differently (like many coaches advocate) to brush up more on 2nd serves. Now my "up and out" motion is the same for both serves - the only difference is the toss location and the target. The toss location takes care of the upward angle without doing anything else consciously and the safe target choice does the rest to avoid DF. In summary, in my mind I'm hitting 2 identical serves with different targets. 2nd serve result is a bit different(more height over the net) because of the toss. The adjustment took only a couple of sessions (and I was able to see the result in the very first hitting session). I found it very surprising that just the toss location was enough to create the upward angle. Now watch the videos to learn the exact toss location :)

    I had a few other issues with my 1 st serves such as falling to the left often, over/early rotation etc - and the common problems and fixes came in handy. All in all, this is the best online serve course I have come across in years ( i had looked at several free ones and also purchased from two more well known sources)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
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  18. RetroSpin

    RetroSpin Hall of Fame

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    I haven't seen the course but my hitting partner got it. He is a 5.5 who coaches parttime and thought he could get some progressions from it for teaching. I might add he has a devastating 115 MPH+ delivery himself and a high bouncing kicker to back it up. He thought the course was very good and worth the cost.

    That said, there are lots of good free videos on serving. I think Jeff Saltzenstein's is one of the best. (Not that dirty diaper nonsense but the longer one).
     
    #18
  19. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Hall of Fame

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    As part of the course, Did you have an option of uploading your serve vid for review?
     
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  20. atp2015

    atp2015 Hall of Fame

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    Yes it does. The cool thing about this is the reference to specific drills in the feedback.
    You can compare your video with a pro serve and pick up drills from the mapping table of errors to drils.
    I'm sounding like a salesman for his course. But seriously this is a great stuff whether you are planning to rebuild or just improve.
     
    #20
  21. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Good example of why taking lessons from local coaches is often a waste of time and money for adult players.
     
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  22. atp2015

    atp2015 Hall of Fame

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    Many adult players (like me) are beyond repair for the local coaches. We are no longer malleable and ductile enough to get anything useful.
     
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  23. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Not true. You can improve on your own as you explore the boundaries of your abilities. A coach is quite useless in this regard for adult players.
     
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  24. Joakim Øster

    Joakim Øster New User

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    I bought its, its absolutely great!
    I payed 47 dollars, and that even includes a video analysis, I just got that back and Florian pinpointed exactly what I should improve, and how, I think its a bargain, just buy it!!
    I already bought Tomaz from feeltennis, good but very theoretical, Jeff Salzenstein, good but very practical, not so in depth, Crunchtime coaching, mostly for beginners.
    After watching those I still had doubts about where how and how high to toss, toss first or racket first, angle of racket and more, Florians gave all the answers :)
     
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  25. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Professional

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    I took this course several years ago. It was somewhat useful but I couldn’t really see a big improvement in my first serve. I was googling serve videos a couple of months ago and watched a
    Serve lesson by Ian from Essential Tennis. That was the best lesson I’ve ever had and it was free. My problem was basically not fully engaging my shoulders, starting at trophy pose (external rotation) and internal rotation into contact. He explained so that I could pronate without thinking about it. My serve has much more pace now.
     
    #25
  26. bitcoinoperated

    bitcoinoperated Professional

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    I'm highly sceptical of any coach that needs 40+ videos to get his point over.
     
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  27. rogerroger917

    rogerroger917 Hall of Fame

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    this is reasonable.
     
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  28. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

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    Consider his audience: adult rec players with years of bad habits, an inflated sense of their own skill, and a massive resistance to change. If it only takes 40 videos, he's doing a great job.

    [I include myself in this audience.]
     
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  29. Joakim Øster

    Joakim Øster New User

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    Hi guys
    What you get is a module with around 10 videos on the fundamentals of the serve, a module with step by step progressions (good stuff!!!), a module with fixes for the most common problems, a kick serve module, a stance module, a drills module, and some "bonus videos". AND a video analysis, you can see mine here:
    https://www.coachseye.com/v/77fe2753255e49c5be81ccd71c20d6e2

    People are different, and the serve is very complex. To me, his "right to left, bend at the elbow" concept works, and makes a difference for me, after trying 3 other serve courses, thats why I recommend it. But of course I can't guarantee it to work for other people...
     
    #29
  30. AceMate

    AceMate New User

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    can you post the link if it is free :)
     
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  31. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    I just watched your video analysis video. I am quite confused by what he means by the tip of the racquet traveling in a circular counter clockwise path (as he drew on your video).

    Is he saying the takeback part of the swing should be more along the right side of your body?

    The pros seem to have various takebacks on the serve. Some more straight back and some more to the side and some are sort of abbreviated like Monfils & Roddick.

    IMO, your takeback looks mostly okay, but your right upper arm is a bit too high and you are swinging arming the serve a little bit too much instead of initiating the swing from more of a natural throwing motion where the torse/shoulder/upper arm/forearm/hand lags in sequence.
     
    #31
  32. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    I just watched your video analysis video. I am quite confused by what he means by the tip of the racquet traveling in a circular counter clockwise path (as he drew on your video).

    Is he saying the takeback part of the swing should be more along the right side of your body?

    The pros seem to have various takebacks on the serve. Some more straight back and some more to the side and some are sort of abbreviated like Monfils & Roddick.

    IMO, your takeback looks mostly okay, but your right upper arm is a bit too high and you are swinging arming the serve a little bit too much instead of initiating the swing from more of a natural throwing motion where the torse/shoulder/upper arm/forearm/hand lags in sequence.
     
    #31
  33. MisterP

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    Everyone of these guys make money on clicks. So the more content they produce, the more revenue they generate.
     
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  34. Joakim Øster

    Joakim Øster New User

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    You may have to see it a few times, when I do what he say I bring the racket arm to the right side of the body, lifting it up pretty straight up until the albow is at shoulder height or a bit below THEN bend the albow, and that brings up the racket so it drops along right side of body, giving me an upward swing instead of a more forward swing. There are probably many ways to achieve this, but his advice works for me; I get more effortless power :)
    BUT I need to work on NOT taking the racket arm up above shoulder level before albow bend, old bad habit...
     
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  35. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Professional

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    I don’t have the link. I came across the lesson on YouTube. I would bet if you googled YouTube serve Essential Tennis you could find it. It was about a 7 to 10 minute lesson. Then of course he wants you to signup for his program which I didn’t do. He went over the takeback and external shoulder rotation at trophy pose in such a way that you pronate without thinking about it. This fixed my flat serve. I may eventually signup for his program.
     
    #34
  36. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    In the video you linked to in your post, I looked at it a again but I still don't quite get it. Can you post a video of your serve after you made the adjustment he suggested?
    (preferably from the same angle)
     
    #35
  37. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Professional

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    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjege6FyYvbAhUpja0KHbG5CioQwqsBCA0wAA&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FKtqaKjZVPs&usg=AOvVaw3nU8LDd1N9c_0UdRbtMBbu I did find the link. He goes over some basic things initially like how to throw and the continental grip but the most helpful is the racquet face at takeback and trophy pose on thru contact. Anyway very basic but for me
    very helpful.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    #36
  38. kaninfaan

    kaninfaan Rookie

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    Having watched Joakim's video I think this relates to and might help explain what he was trying to have Joakim do:


    fwiw
     
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  39. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    I find this really interesting, tried the other day and think it makes a difference. But I don't understand the rationale behind it.
     
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  40. AceMate

    AceMate New User

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    #39
  41. Joakim Øster

    Joakim Øster New User

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    Hi OneHandBH
    Ill try to film myself, trying to explain what I THINK he means, think Ill get a chance in the weekend... But I think his point is to make sure the racket drops at right side of body, from where it will travel straight up, adding more power, spin and accuracy (?), rather than behind body where it will go a bit left to right; more forward, less upwards.
    His concept is to keep the racket face facing the ground, then taking it up on edge over your head BY BENDING THE ALBOW (very important...) If I do that it seems I get good drop and pronation and effortless power :)
    - But still need to work a lot on that...
     
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  42. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    Exactly my experience as well.
     
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  43. Joakim Øster

    Joakim Øster New User

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    Thats interesting, I think you´re right!
    Florians complete swing path is different, but I think the "Outside-inside" swingpath is the same. fx Federer (?) I think Venus has the other one (?)
     
    #42
  44. Kevo

    Kevo Hall of Fame

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    When you serve or hit ground strokes for that matter, you are essentially winding and loading your body like springs and rubber bands on the back swing, and then unwinding them on the forward swings. So whatever you do in the back swing comes undone in the forward swing.

    In the video if you look at the two versions he demonstrates the outside backswing results in the racquet making contact with the ball over his head in line with his body. That's what you want. You want to turn your whole body into a long lever at contact that unloads all that energy into the ball. The second version where the take back is more to the inside of his body results in a contact position more to his right which is outside the line of the body. That is going to produce a less effective more disconnected lever at contact. Less of his body weight will make it into the ball and the leverage of the arm rotation is going to be substantially reduced as well because of the more straightened arm and racquet.
     
    #43
  45. Joakim Øster

    Joakim Øster New User

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    Heres one of his free videos, that explains his key points...
     
    #44
  46. nvr2old

    nvr2old Professional

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    I watched the above video. Reviewed the videos of my serves which while very consistent reveal the typical waiters tray flaw. Tried this simple trick as above and fixed my flaw and added speed. I lost some fluidity but this will come with more practice I hope.
     
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  47. Joakim Øster

    Joakim Øster New User

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    Hi OneHandBackhand
    I made a video, trying to explain, its here



    After watching the video I realized I STILL have the same problem, which is: The racket swings from left to right when going up, instead of going straight up.

    I then realized it comes from lifting up the arm while bending it, so the elbow gets above shoulder level to early. I tried again bending the arm while keeping the elbow a bit lower, that seems to work, you can see that here:



    So, thats what I´ll be working on; keeping the elbow below shoulder level while bringing up the racket by bending the arm!

    Regarding your other points: I think you´re right, but Ill take Florians advice, which is "get the arm movement right first, then work on the other parts of the serve afterwards (I know I should get the other things you mentioned right at some point; kinetic chain, weight shift and shoulder over shoulder (I think i bend to much backwards instead of sideways)

    Best regards, and thanks for commenting.

    Joakim
     
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  48. Joakim Øster

    Joakim Øster New User

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    Hi Kevo
    If you take a look at this, do you think im on the right track?
     
    #47
  49. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    There is a big and not easy to fix problem there. The almost full elbow flexion during the racket drop where it shouldnt ideally pass beyond 90 degrees. That results in an 'artificial' racket drop like a little cheat. With 90 degrees though it's a pure external shoulder rotation.
     
    #48
  50. kaninfaan

    kaninfaan Rookie

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    I know I wasnt asked but since you are on the wrong track with that deep elbow flexion you really need to see and understand this video:

    Watch it a couple of times, pause, rewind, reflect.
     
    #49
  51. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    Very good video. I'm surprised he doesn't specifically mention that the elbow shouldn't be bent/flexed beyond 90 degrees, or did I miss it maybe?
     
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