Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by max, Jul 25, 2006.
Here's to Floyd Landis, 2007 TdF champ. . . amazing story!
you seem to forget this is a TENNIS forum.
I'm sure the French (and other European countries) are mortified. Lance finallly quits and another American rises up to win the Tour. And we all know how popular Americans are these days.
Well, I was impressed with his comeback, after he lost like 10 mins the day before. I'm far from mortified.
I'm anxious to see how he fares after his hip replacement.... that will really be a story if he can be top-level as the six million dollar man.
Yeah im english but i was very impressed with Floyd's comeback and pleased for him! There were so many twists and turns in this year's tour i almost expected him to fall off in the Champs Elleyses. Unfortunately the French will probably brand him as a doper now......
I was hoping to see Vinokourov, O'Grady, Voeckler, Ulrich, Sastre, Leipheimer, Basso, Julich and those kinda dudes all fight it out for a tight finish. Thought they'd be right there with extra motivation since Armstrong was done. Oh well.
Nice sig, Nike Man.
Adely, you seem to know a bit about cycling..... what do you think about all this blood tranfusion thing, do you think it's cheating? The results are the same as using an altidude tent after all. I feel especially sorry for Basso as he'sd innocent plus he had a real chance of winning the Giro and the Tour..... i suppose his time will come
BTW most of what Lance Armstrong says is cool!
No, I know very little about cycling, unfortunately. I only remember those names from Tours past...
But I'd be interested to learn mo'!
LOL, you bluff knowledge well! I presume you have become interested in it recently then. Did you watch a lot of this year's Tour or did you just follow the results?
I didn't watch much this year, unfortunately. I thought I would get into it deeper into the race, but when I didn't recognize most of the names at the top of the standings, I couldn't get interested.
There was one really cool part that I did see and that was when Landis was struggling and his team car was driving right beside him and the team boss was trying to motivate him and was yelling all these things. He looked totally finished then. Wicked how he came back to win after that bad day.
Yeah, he actually was suffering from heat exhaustion that day so it was amazing how he recovered to perform so well the day after. I don't watch all of the time trials because frankly they're quite boring (apart from the last one where Landis basically won the tour!). It's in the Alps where the race gets really interesting! Even without those brilliant solo attacks from Lance!
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. In winning the race, Floyd's no longer "under the radar" and so I wouldn't be surprised if some snipe-editor at the agenda-driven "innuendo-rag" L'Equippe dispatched a crew of "reporters" with instructions to dig up something (ANYTHING) on Landis.....even if the truth be damned!
Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich were not allow to ride due to being implicated in the Operation Puerto drug scandal in Spain. Alex Vinokourov could not ride because most of his team was implicated and he couldn't just go ahead by himself without a team. Tough break for Alex. He should have signed with a better team last year.
Thomas Voeckler is still too young to be a serious contender for a three week grand tour. Besides, he doesn't have a very good team supporting him. Stewart O'Grady is a sprinter and not a GC contender. Bobby Julich crashed in the first time trial and broke his wrist and had to drop out. Levi Leipheimer is the biggest dissapointment this year, but it is thought that because of this being his last year with Gerolsteiner, he is not motivated. It is reported that he will ride with Discovery next year. Carlos Sastre is the only one on your list with a real chance, but he blew a second place podium finish by riding a lousy final time trial. He ended up fourth.
One of the better web sites for pro cycling info is:
Actually,L'equippe is a very reputable newspaper,a very trustworthy source for news,and I would be suprised if smth like that happened..Maybe some other,but L'equippe?Non,mon ami!
landis threw together an amazing tour....the thing that shocks me is how oscar periro even got inside the top 10. He was 30 minutes down and joined a breakaway group that finshed 30 minutes infront of the pelton..30 minutes is an almost unheard of number. he raced a great tour and floyd did also...george hincapie on the other hand was a bit of a dissipointment but great race for americans
Thanks for the great info Simi! I only remembered those names because they seemed to do well in previous Tour(s) and/or the announcers often mentioned their names, that's why I remembered them.
So Basso and Ulrich were only implicated? They didn't test positive? That's somewhat reassuring...
I also enjoy learning about the little unwritten 'rules' the Tour has. Like when that French kid tripped up Lance, his competitors waited up for him until he got back in the saddle and caught up to speed.
And there was this incident last year I think when a top rider tried to hide in a breakaway group, Lance caught up and told him to drop back or else the breakaway pack wasn't gonna breakaway from nothin'.
Yeah, you are correct--they were implicated in the scandal with no proof and no positive test. They were basically forced to give up their Tour and pretty much their year for unproven theories. It aggravates me they take such dramatic actions w/o proving anything. If they're proven to be innocent, they've been ruined for nothing. It's like Ready, Fire, Aim... Granted it wouldn't be the best scenario if Jan or Ivan were to win it under suspicion, but at least the UCI could strip him of the title and give it to the next guy if it was proven. That would be more disgraceful to the rider, IMO. But going the route they did was positively unfair, IMO.
Well I would be highly suprised if Ullrich was innocent. The Spanish doctor who has been doing the blood transfusions had numerous text messages from Ullrich's agent and one of them before a big race said,"Jan urgently needs to see you, the race is tommorow," Ullrich went on to win that race! Basso however was implicated simply because the word "Brillo" was in the guys phonebook! They thought it might have been a nickname..... now that is extremely harsh!
Hmmm - so many things here. I'm heavily involved in mountain biking and cycling in a few different capacities, although I have nothing to do with professional road racing other than being an observer, and a keen watcher of the tour....
I think cycling - and especially 'le tour', knows that it only has so many more chances to keep what's left of it's reputation. Swimming had to get tough, and now it's cycling's turn. While it's ok to say that they could do as you suggest and re-award a winner, the potential damage to the sport from such an incident would be huge. It could result in tens or hundreds of millions of lost sponsorship, as no company wants to be associated with a drugged sport. Ratings losses could be catastrophic, and most importantly for the future of the sport, parents would be that little less likely to encourage their kids to try cycling.
I think they (the tour organisers) took a scary and hard stand this year, but that said, sometimes scary hard and stands have to be taken. Maybe it cost Ullrich a tour or a podium, maybe Ullrich has been seeking chemical assistance, we'll probably never really know on either front. What we do know, is that every professional cyclist will now be even more scared about risking taking drugs or even being associated in any way with anyone who ever has, cyclist, medico or otherwise....and that's unquestionably good for the sport.
I see your point OrangeOne, but I'm coming at it from a realstic point of view. I ride regularly on the road an follow the sport throughout the year. My opinion is that everyone is doping, and the ones that get caught are busted and that's the risk they take. I don't have any problem with them kicking out those testing positive, but IMO they actually do have to test positive to get kicked out. Not just a few reports found in a doctor's office.
Already having a fallout. Liberty Insurance has dropped sponsorship of pro cycling. They backed the "wrong" team. Phonak is pulling out at the end of this year. They say that they have achieved name recognition goals, but one has to believe they don't want their name to be dragged in the mud with everyone else.
p.s. A good cycling forum is
Good folk there. No trolls. A nice friendly, closeknit "family", but open to oursiders. Got started when OLN dropped coverage of the Giro and Vuelta.
Well, Floyd Landis was positve tested with his A-sample - if his B-sample is positive as well Pereiro wins the Tour de France - and Basso and Ulrich were banned without being positive tested.
What a great publicity for cycling...why am I not surprised!
You'd have to be female or French to not test positive for a male hormone.
No you don't - his testosterone was way above the normal level of a male!
It's strange that the sample is from the "miracle" etappe 17. which he won, isn't it? Especially after he was nearly "dead" the day before.
This is shocking news. What a shame, it's like the whole event was for nothing.
Anyway, I heard that he lost 10 minutes and and had a horrible day that day was because he had a beer the previous evening. I can well imagine that, but why did he have a beer? That's almost as dumb as doping.
That's really shocking..:neutral:
I don't really think it's shocking, I think it's unfortunate. I'm telling you, almost all top level cyclists are doped in some way or another. It's just a fact of life. Even believing that, I still enjoy the sport immensely.
Landis just became a cheat and a joke!!!I know the french sometimes pull out crazy stories but i believe this one.
Strange - only that he got caught...
Well, he made a beginner's mistake, cause testosterone is so easy to detect, but he had no choice - testosteron is also a hormone, which boosts you recovery and raises your tolerance level to pain and fatigue + it makes you more agrassive (That's why men in general are more agrassive and recover quicker than women).
It was the only thing that could help him in such a short time - no blood doping or EPO would have the same effect in a day.
At the, end Cycling has lost all credibility and won't recover from this for a long time, imo!
Floyd Landis= Worst Mennonite EVER
He may or may not have had a beer, but in reality on that stage he was trapped in a bunch with no team-mates for ages and was too scared to go to the team car and get food / drink - so he didn't eat or drink much. He 'hit the wall', glucose / dehydration-wise. A beer the night before wouldn't have helped matters, but that was the main reason...
As for your first sentence, I agree, entirely. This didn't happen on the final (racing) stage, so it's just all unfair now!. So many interactions, so many battles, etc. It's kind of like finding out the shock 17-year old winner of a GS was doped heavily, but only in the 3rd round, and when he knocked out Federer, and the 4th round, when he beat Hewitt, and finding this out after the tournament.
What do you do? You give the win to Nalby, who won the final....but you'll never know what would have happened if Fed or Hewitt weren't beat way back when...
Well, according to ESPN, his testosterone levels did NOT come back high, some ratio came back high. His testosterone levels were actually low they say, but some other level was really low, which made the ratio high. I think the one that they said was really low was epotestosterone or something. They were saying taking cortisone shots often might do that.
Hey Steve, what are you doing up at Cornell? Ugrad? Grad?
He's just minding his own business, ok? I suggest you do the same.
Just kidding, just kidding!:mrgreen:
Disgrace and an idiot. Tested positive for banned substance.
But I just read someone said his T-levels were ok, just a ratio that was high.
So I can't condemn yet
True, the testing protocol has yet to be completed, but, like they say:
if it walks like a duck.....
We're watching him on CNN, he's giving a press conference in Madrid. Arguments are convincing but we'll see.
He's supposed to be on Larry King Live later tonight? Oh, guess it will be just a satellite interview.
Innocent until proven guilty, no?
if true, that's disappointing... he looked like a nice guy
i can't believe that he was caught and that armstrong wasn't...
this is unfair.
When will the sports become a 100% clean!!! It's a shame. He wins the most prestigus tourement in his sport, and after a week everyone has found out that you cheated and did not win it by your own. It's pitiful.
Cycling is a dirty sport... it's just going to be that way. You guys who think otherwise are just disillusioned. They're going to ruin the entire sport for good by trying to clean it up so publicly. European governing bodies, security people, whoever, can't keep their mouths shut. If they want to try and eliminate drugs, they need to do it a lot more quietly then they're doing it now.
ahhhh you must be French, therefore you are an Armstrong hater! Is there any point telling you he didn't take drugs?
I think Lance is absolutely awesome. Do i think he is totally clean? HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAAHAHAHAAH. You guys need to face reality.
But why do you think this? There hasn't been any evidence against him! Just because he produced outstanding performances doesn't make him a doper in my opinion. You are entitled too your own opinion, of course, but where is your evidence? I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt...... Flyod Landis is a different story though
I think all top-level cyclists take some sort of performance enhancers in some form or another. It's just a necessity to be a top-level cyclist. Why do I think this? From stories I've heard from amateur competitive cyclists, from what I've heard of other former professional cyclists, and my own opinion. Frankie Andreu was forced to testify about Lance, fortunately it didn't expose Lance too much...
I don't think most amateur athletes really understand what it takes to be a professional athlete, especially in cycling. People think they do, they think they'd know what it takes, but how many have really been behind the scenes... I haven't been there to see it myself, so I can only listen to people who have been there. There's a whole world we don't see, decisions that amateur athletes don't have to deal with.
Do I think any less of the sport? No, it is what it is. I'm in awe of all these guys who compete and really push themselves. They still put in the work, they still put in the time. Doping isn't a substitute for that. Whether none are doping or all or doping, it doesn't stop it from being amazing. I'll never be like them, so it doesn't affect me in the least. People who use the excuse "but it sets a bad example", well, you need to learn right from wrong for yourself and need to separate your life from a professional's life. The reality is that if you're going into professional cycling, you're going to come across drugs. For the rest of us who aren't, it makes no difference to me.
Are the use of high altitude acclimation tents a form of legalized doping? What if it is shown that the one beer and shot of whiskey Floyd had that previous night was the causation of the T:E ratio being too high? Where is the line to be drawn? What a mess!
Do you know how fast these guys cycle? In almost flat stages, they cycle with an average speed of about 50 km/h. Do you know how fast that is? If a cycle on my racing bicycle, I barely reach 50 when I sprint as fast as I can, let alone keep it up for over 200 kilometres.
That's too bad. The Tour de France was so exciting to watch. I didn't know drug enhancers were so prevalent in cycling. Makes me wonder about other sports like tennis..
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