Foam-Filled Racquets

rock76251

Rookie
Seeing the still photo recently of Zverev's broken foam-filled racquet made me wonder, what are the racquets out in the world, old and new, that a foam-filled. New racquets I know Donnay and Angell but besides that, my knowledge is limited. I believe the Prince POG is foam-filled, although not sure what years and models, also I know that some of the six one 95's are but again, not sure what years and models. Anyway, feel free to contribute if you like. I personal am a big fan of foam-filled racquets.
 
historically the most famous are the POG and pro staff 85

today they can be hard to find... Angell being known for it

Donnay seems to be going down some sort of rabbit hole trying to cram as many "cores" as possible into a frame then foam filling them... which seems like splitting hairs at a certain point.

The RF97 is partially foam filled apparently
 

Long Face

Semi-Pro
Wilson high-end racquets are mostly foam filled, I believe?

I haven't seen any Babolat and Head racquets have foam inside.
 

markwillplay

Hall of Fame
My pog 4 stripes are foam filled in the handle. I think my pro 90 is as well. My tours 100s are not and although they are aoft....it is not the same.
 

sparkyS4

New User
I have found some prince frames to have foam (like my pog longbodies), but not my diablo mids. The photo is for a diablo mp. Not sure if all versions are equal though.
I can say for sure that the diablo mids are foam filled. I had a cracked one and cut it in half longwise, the entire racquet was foam filled, it was a low density foam, not like the high density foam in the Angels, maybe that's why you were able to inject silicone. This was an older model, not sure if the re-releases were foam filled as well, but playing with both the originals and re-releases for the last 13 years, they feel the same. If I wasn't away on vacation, I'd post pictures.
 

Don't Let It Bounce

Hall of Fame
I have two Tour Diablo MP's that are definitely foam-filled. (I peeled back the grommet and peeked.) It's interesting to learn that the Mid was not. As noted, the 80s Prince composites are, but I learned from TW that the 21st-century Prince Graphites (Tour Graphite, Graphite Classic, presumably the Classic Graphite) are not.

The old Rossignols were foam-filled, as were the 80s Pro Kennex frames (made by the same OEM as the 80s Princes).
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I can say for sure that the diablo mids are foam filled. I had a cracked one and cut it in half longwise, the entire racquet was foam filled, it was a low density foam, not like the high density foam in the Angels, maybe that's why you were able to inject silicone. This was an older model, not sure if the re-releases were foam filled as well, but playing with both the originals and re-releases for the last 13 years, they feel the same. If I wasn't away on vacation, I'd post pictures.
I am certain that the diablo mid I filled with silicone was free of foam in the hoop, but foam filled in the handle only. It was purchased new from TW on sale circa 2006. removed the grommets to inject the silicone. And I could peer inside. Although hollow, The wall of the frame was thicker and more solid looking than the frame in the mp photo referenced above.
 
Many older dunlops were... my lil brother's old SC95 was (He leaded that thing up to 13oz... beast
as was the Dunlop Biomimetic 200 tour... I think many of the 300 series were as well?

Head didnt really do foam filled sticks... things like twin tube technology and using twaron were vibration dampening... so there is more than one way to achieve dampening.

What I like about the foam filled approach is it lets the structural walls be structural walls and the dampening material be dampening material. The kevlar/twaron/ceramic sticks use that material in the structual walls.
 

sparkyS4

New User
I am certain that the diablo mid I filled with silicone was free of foam in the hoop, but foam filled in the handle only. It was purchased new from TW on sale circa 2006. removed the grommets to inject the silicone. And I could peer inside. Although hollow, The wall of the frame was thicker and more solid looking than the frame in the mp photo referenced above.
I suppose it's possible that there are production runs with or without foam. If I remember, I'll post pictures of my cut racquet, it's really pretty cool, you can see how the frame is made and where they placed the lead in the handle region when it was built.
 

Pleb123

Semi-Pro
Wilson high-end racquets are mostly foam filled, I believe?

I haven't seen any Babolat and Head racquets have foam inside.
Someone on here posted a pic of the smashed hoop of their 2014 Bab Pure Strike Tour - full of foam filled goodness.

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk
 

rock76251

Rookie
The reason I switched to Angell was foam filled, it cured my tennis elbow in 3 months while still playing. They are beautifully crafted rackets and those of us who own one are very lucky.
I have 3 Angells and they are all I play with. Two TC95 16x19 63ra 12ptshl and One TC97 16x19 6pts hl. I was just asking out of curiosity and to chat amongst like minded individuals.
 

tennisnut1

Semi-Pro
I have 3 Angells and they are all I play with. Two TC95 16x19 63ra 12ptshl and One TC97 16x19 6pts hl. I was just asking out of curiosity and to chat amongst like minded individuals.
You are one of the lucky ones my friend, Angell's are the best rackets out there and if they could run some advertising, these sticks would catch on fire quickly. Especially if one of the ATP pro players used it. Hope to see it one day
 
You are one of the lucky ones my friend, Angell's are the best rackets out there and if they could run some advertising, these sticks would catch on fire quickly. Especially if one of the ATP pro players used it. Hope to see it one day
well some things are left better as a boutique option... works for certain car and guitar manufacturers

Ultimately he's trying a different model and its refreshing.
 
He just doesn't have the dollars to promote his product or get sponsorship for players. If he did, it would rocket to the moon.
I doubt that... just massive marketing isnt enough... it would have to be a player of the Borg-ish quality to achieve that. Rod Laver endorsed lots of stuff like Chemold and yet it never took off. Stan Wawrinka has done some good for Yonex but even his very high profile success has not made Yonex a contender amongst Babolat, Wilson and Head.

Paul ran Dunlops pro player program so Im pretty sure he knows the limitations and why. Its not just money or endorsements it is the fact that professional tennis is a business that doesn't necesari;ly serve the tennis playing public ...

Look what Djokovic did to Sergio Tachinni?? Massive success that the contract just couldnt scale up to. Better to cultivate a direct relationship to customers rather than positioning with top pros.

Paul's products are great and I think the pro and tour line are a way to help him scale up a bit but at a certain point if things take off too much the custom service gets way more expensive or the non custom sticks start to become the focus of the business... keeping it small and boutique actually keeps his product an underground hit and a huge value. #1 it lets paul do things his way after having years of the board room and marketing dictating what he developed. He's an engineer, he just likes to make excellent sticks and we help him make that dream a reality because he makes what we want. Bring pro players into it and there is suddenly lots of marketing voodoo.

Thank You for that!


Foam makes people crazy
 
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tennisnut1

Semi-Pro
I doubt that... just massive marketing isnt enough... it would have to be a player of the Borg-ish quality to achieve that. Rod Laver endorsed lots of stuff like Chemold and yet it never took off. Stan Wawrinka has done some good for Yonex but even his very high profile success has not made Yonex a contender amongst Babolat, Wilson and Head.

Paul ran Dunlops pro player program so Im pretty sure he knows the limitations and why. Its not just money or endorsements it is the fact that professional tennis is a business that doesn't necesarilly serve the tennis playing public ...

Look what Djokovic did to Sergio Tachinni?? Massive success that the contract just couldnt scale up to. Better to cultivate a direct relationship to customers rather than positioning with top pros.

Paul's products are great and I think the pro and tour line are a way to help him scale up a bit but at a certain point if things take off too much the custom service gets way more expensive or the non custom sticks start to become the focus of the business... keeping it small and boutique actually keeps his product an underground hit and a huge value. #1 it lets paul do things his way after having years of the board room and marketing dictating what he developed. He's an engineer, he just likes to make excellent sticks and we help him make that dream a reality because he makes what we want. Bring pro players into it and there is suddenly lots of marketing voodoo.
You make some good points, especially on the marketing voodoo, every year another new and improved BS for more money, ha
 
You make some good points, especially on the marketing voodoo, every year another new and improved BS for more money, ha
yeah he's not a "disruptor" like Uber and Lyft to Taxi companies... he's more like the craft beer movement for tennis racquets and he isnt taking out super bowl ads (like that would help sell tennis racquets anyway)
 

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
no doubt, high quality frames, but the key is paul, his hard work, super design, passion and his drive for top notch customer service impressive!
if donnay (jerry) could buy just a half of an angell clue... in top level quality, pricing and service - they could possible be contender (ok ...nah..lol).

now I am pretty sure that foam will not cure TE. really ..

now certainly with the right prior steps (rest, exercise...after) it could assist in the prevention....but cure...really...

please don't mix up good "form" with "foam" filled.............

Bad form forces you to overstretch the muscle on the outside of the elbow....
& no foam filled anything will help..
ok maybe swing'in a twinkie will...

Not even this,,,,
 

tennisnut1

Semi-Pro
no doubt, high quality frames, but the key is paul, his hard work, super design, passion and his drive for top notch customer service impressive!
if donnay (jerry) could buy just a half of an angell clue... in top level quality, pricing and service - they could possible be contender (ok ...nah..lol).

now I am pretty sure that foam will not cure TE. really ..

now certainly with the right prior steps (rest, exercise...after) it could assist in the prevention....but cure...really...

please don't mix up good "form" with "foam" filled.............

Bad form forces you to overstretch the muscle on the outside of the elbow....
& no foam filled anything will help..
ok maybe swing'in a twinkie will...

Not even this,,,,
Ha, very funny my friend. The fact remains that when I bought the head instinct 100 mp I developed tennis elbow after 3 months and tried to deal with it for 2 years because I loved the frames and was playing great tennis. I finally sold all 3 rackets (on for sale forum) and got the angel. It was the vibration which caused my pain and with no vibration in the TC 105, my injury healed in 3 months. So yes, the racket cured my tennis elbow. I would ask others on this forum to see if they had any similar results switching, but there are just a handful of rackets that are actually foam filled. If that is snake oil, then sign me up for a lifetime supply
 

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
Ha, very funny my friend. The fact remains that when I bought the head instinct 100 mp I developed tennis elbow after 3 months and tried to deal with it for 2 years because I loved the frames and was playing great tennis. I finally sold all 3 rackets (on for sale forum) and got the angel. It was the vibration which caused my pain and with no vibration in the TC 105, my injury healed in 3 months. So yes, the racket cured my tennis elbow. I would ask others on this forum to see if they had any similar results switching, but there are just a handful of rackets that are actually foam filled. If that is snake oil, then sign me up for a lifetime supply
OK....guess you are right...Angell's can perform Miracles..
Bottom-line: you are healthy, happy and playing....that is all that matters! Congrats!
Just remember, we all are different and one thing may work for you but not another....
Also, they are fantastic sticks! rock on.
 

tennisnut1

Semi-Pro
OK....guess you are right...Angell's can perform Miracles..
Bottom-line: you are healthy, happy and playing....that is all that matters! Congrats!
Just remember, we all are different and one thing may work for you but not another....
Also, they are fantastic sticks! rock on.
Yes, thanks for the reply, I have found an angell and my game is better for it
 
OK....guess you are right...Angell's can perform Miracles..
Bottom-line: you are healthy, happy and playing....that is all that matters! Congrats!
Just remember, we all are different and one thing may work for you but not another....
Also, they are fantastic sticks! rock on.
ive named my newest Angell... Lucifer, its a foam filled devil

but yeah we all are effected differently... the only tennis elbow I have ever had was with the Pure Drive Roddick when I first came back to the sport. At the tine I was definitely abbreviating some of my forehand swings... that's before I switched to a semi Western grip and basically completely remade my forehand for the modern game... I do think there is something about really stiff hollow sticks that hurts arms especially if you learned with much lower powered sticks.

I think Pacific also makes some really nice dampened frames as well... glad to see the Tennis Warehouse is offering them again players need options and they were disappearing pretty rapidly for a while there.

there are lots of ways to create comfortable frames and foam is just one of them. Pacific uses a vibration tuning system that fisher developed and Head used to use a lot of Twaron.
 

tennisnut1

Semi-Pro
ive named my newest Angell... Lucifer, its a foam filled devil

but yeah we all are effected differently... the only tennis elbow I have ever had was with the Pure Drive Roddick when I first came back to the sport. At the tine I was definitely abbreviating some of my forehand swings... that's before I switched to a semi Western grip and basically completely remade my forehand for the modern game... I do think there is something about really stiff hollow sticks that hurts arms especially if you learned with much lower powered sticks.

I think Pacific also makes some really nice dampened frames as well... glad to see the Tennis Warehouse is offering them again players need options and they were disappearing pretty rapidly for a while there
good to know, those hollow sticks are pretty much 99.9 % of whats out there now, terrible for us arm sufferers.
 
Newb here. What advantages does foam give?
It adds mass and attenuates vibrations. Unlike embedding material into the structurally important parts of the frame it doesnt weaken that structure. There are lots of other ways to attenuate vibration... Pacific tunes it (just like an instrument) I believe there is also some foam in the throat in many...

The minus is it adds mass so its harder to have a low swingweight.
 

tennisnut1

Semi-Pro
It adds mass and attenuates vibrations. Unlike embedding material into the structurally important parts of the frame it doesnt weaken that structure. There are lots of other ways to attenuate vibration... Pacific tunes it (just like an instrument) I believe there is also some foam in the throat in many...

The minus is it adds mass so its harder to have a low swingweight.
True, it does add swingweight, but you get used to that after a while
 
True, it does add swingweight, but you get used to that after a while
Yeah people over obsess about swingweight here. If you can get it around without being consitently late and make contact in the sweetspot... then its fine. No Idea what my swingweight is (350-ish? on a 12.7 9pt HL frame?)

Instead I go for feel and a good sensation on swing and contact and foam filled frames when done right are some of the sweetest (Ps85, POG, TC95). 2 years ago I tried a PS85 for the first time (I am 46 so not sure how that happened) and it was gloriously good...but a tad too stiff for my taste. I went looking for an updated option in a MP... that meant a solid, open patterned foam filled, thinnish beamed beast. Found it in the Angell tc95 which had always thought of as a notoriously string sensitive frame. About the time I got my first tc95 Robin Soderling came out with RSlyon string and its a great pairing.

Right now most of the frame manufacturers are trying to make cheaper and stiffer frames rather than comfort oriented and fun to hit with frames... I think it is hurting the sport's popularity.
 

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
I see a huge trend with a lot of rec players just going to the lighter side. Manufactures are also, as we know promoting them.
Manufactures reap the benefits, players going light will pay twice (you can figure it out) ... more sooner that later....
 
I see a huge trend with a lot of rec players just going to the lighter side. Manufactures are also, as we know promoting them.
Manufactures reap the benefits, players going light will pay twice (you can figure it out) ... more sooner that later....
yeah why sell them one racket when you can sell them another model as the season progresses?

the fact of the matter is is a very small percentage of tennis players who are Ultra particular about their equipment because of there is a very small percentage of tennis players who are above the 4.0 level and even then the number that actually pay close enough attention to their gear ("swing" more technically) is miniscule.
 

BenTenn

New User
Anyone tried foaming up an old stick? Doesn't seem like it would be too hard, putting the old grommets back in would be the sanity tester. By the way I have a good picture of the broken Zverev stick if someone would be kind enough to show me how to post a pic from your gallery.
 

scf

Semi-Pro
Anyone tried foaming up an old stick? Doesn't seem like it would be too hard, putting the old grommets back in would be the sanity tester. By the way I have a good picture of the broken Zverev stick if someone would be kind enough to show me how to post a pic from your gallery.
There was a thread about foaming recently so you can search.
 

aarenes

Rookie
Do they do partial foaming - just the throat or just the handle ?
I always wondered. My Wilson Pro Opens have foam in the handle and I always wondered if it went all the way to the hoop as well.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Donnay are making the best solid core sticks out there imo. I've heard some good things about Angell, but I've also heard they play quite stiff, as where Donnays tend to feel a bit more "old school"
 

Simon_the_furry

Hall of Fame
I know the Yonex VCORE Si frames were foam filled. I took off the buttcap of one of my demos and there was quite a copious amount of foam in the handle.
 

Djokovicfan

Semi-Pro
My diablo tour was not foam filled - which allowed me to easily fill the upper hoop with 25g of solid silicone rubber caulk from 8:30 to 11:00 and from 1:00 to 3:30.
How did you know you were getting the caulk in the right spot? Wouldnt getting it precise be much harder than just using lead tape on the outside?
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
How did you know you were getting the caulk in the right spot? Wouldnt getting it precise be much harder than just using lead tape on the outside?
I had first tried it with 3 layers 8" long of lead tape at 10 and 2 and liked it. Decided to make it more permament. I injected caulk into all the holes in the same region, and used to scale to track my progress so the weight was even on both sides.

The silicone felt great in that frame, but I don't use silicone anymore because it's a pain in the ass and not adjustable, and I am always making tweaks to my specs.
 

Djokovicfan

Semi-Pro
I had first tried it with 3 layers 8" long of lead tape at 10 and 2 and liked it. Decided to make it more permament. I injected caulk into all the holes in the same region, and used to scale to track my progress so the weight was even on both sides.

The silicone felt great in that frame, but I don't use silicone anymore because it's a pain in the ass and not adjustable, and I am always making tweaks to my specs.
Nice. Thats cool you weighed it out like a true master.
 
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