Fognini was defaulted yesterday. Was it a correct decision?

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
As I am reading the news, Fognini was defaulted yesterday, for apparently swearing at a line judge.
Apparently there is no video footage of the moment.

What's your opinion folks?
 

14OuncesStrung

Semi-Pro
Why can't the linespeople get defaulted? They did the mistake...
Why should the players always suffer a penalty when they get mad at what could be a crucial mistake on a set/break point?
This culture has to stop.
 

tonylg

Legend
Why can't the linespeople get defaulted? They did the mistake...
Why should the players always suffer a penalty when they get mad at what could be a crucial mistake on a set/break point?
This culture has to stop.
If an umpire or linesperson called a player a farking *****, I not only believe they'd be removed from the match .. but the whole sport.

So you're right, it is slightly inequitable.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
If an umpire or linesperson called a player a farking *****, I not only believe they'd be removed from the match .. but the whole sport.

So you're right, it is slightly inequitable.
and we actually know at least 1 case of penalties introduced against an umpire who had the balls to try to force a very humble, but injured person playing tennis, to follow the rules
but nothing happened when the humble person accused an umpire for not liking 'intelligent tennis'

so yeah, @14OuncesStrung players and umpires / linesmen are not in the same position
 

Visionary

Professional
He was given a warning first but he continued to swear at a line judge. That does not seem to be because of his reputation but the officials just following the rulebook.
I have no doubt that the Italian's mouth got him out of the tournament in Spain but I would not discount his reputation that clouded the officials' minds there. On top of that, I sense the worries of Spaniards that their star player Rafa has also had tough time with Fognini before. Having Fabio out of the picture, there are fewer warriors to worry about. All in all, few play by the book nowadays, and doublestandards only make it worse or easier for the ones who wish to influence outcomes.
 

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
I have no doubt that the Italian's mouth got him out of the tournament in Spain but I would not discount his reputation that clouded the officials' minds there. On top of that, I sense the worries of Spaniards that their star player Rafa has also had tough time with Fognini before. Having Fabio out of the picture, there are fewer warriors to worry about. All in all, few play by the book nowadays, and doublestandards only make it worse or easier for the ones who wish to influence outcomes.
I don't think it had anything to do with it at all. I believe the officials are too professional to be influenced like that. At least I hope none of them are anything like typical TTW posters lol
 

Visionary

Professional
I don't think it had anything to do with it at all. I believe the officials are too professional to be influenced like that. At least I hope none of them are anything like typical TTW posters lol
So officials in tennis are "too professional" but typical TTW posters are not? I get your view on the Fognini match and the officials' decision but .... Sometimes, it's not about what you say but how you say it :)
 

Devtennis01

G.O.A.T.
I would trust officials if they defaulted him. It hurts the tournament to lose someone like Fognini whose popularity is not proportional to his achievements. They would only do it because they believed he broke the rules.
 

tudwell

Legend
I'm just curious why it went straight to default. He apparently already had a warning, but wouldn't the next step for a code violation be a point penalty?
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Wonder how Fognini would react if a line judge/referee calls him a ****ing idiot everytime he hits a forehand wide.

If a player insults/attacks officials/referees, disqualification is the only correct decision.
would hitting a lineswoman with a ball in the throat require a disqualification of the player as well? or would we say that the lineswoman should be disqualified for over-reaction?
 

MadariKatu

Professional
Wonder how Fognini would react if a line judge/referee calls him a ****ing idiot everytime he hits a forehand wide.

If a player insults/attacks officials/referees, disqualification is the only correct decision.
Then it should happen every time. If it doesn't, rules are not equally applied, hence unfair. Very recently Tsitsipas told an umpire he was a disgrace and nothing happened. I don't think he even got a warning. Serena called the umpire a thief at her last USO final, and it had no consequences.

About the line judge insulting a player if they miss a shot... there is no comparison. A player missing the target doesn't affect a judges career. A line judge/umpire with a bad call can change the result of a match and with that affect someones career. That's why you can say a player was robbed, but will never hear a line judge was.
Not defending that line judges can be insulted without any consequences. But straight to a disqualification without a warning or game penalty? Also, what if someone insults them in a language they don't know? If there is nobody to hear it, a tree falling in the forest does make a sound.
It was obviously clear to the umpire and supervisor.
Fair enough. Then what's needed is more transparency in the sport, so that fans know what happened. Them hiding the details of the incident can lead to people thinking they want to hide something,
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
A bad decision from umpire/refree can change a player's career or even the history of a sport forever but they never suffer anything.
you mean something like making a difference between letting someone to win 73 GS consecutively to making that player remain an unknown amateur?
could you throw some real cases where calling a wrong decision actually made such difference?
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Anyone who follow football must remember the match between Italy and Korea at World Cup 2002. The refree did everything to ensure Korea could beat Italy he and he suceeded. A disgrace to the sport. He never gets any penalty from FIFA.
remember how Italy played in 2006? and their result?
it's not like that call made a difference between Italy being the GOAT team and an unknown bunch of amateurs
and given how they played in 2002, they'd probably either way lose long before the final

so, why don't you pick a better case
 

tonylg

Legend
Fair enough. Then what's needed is more transparency in the sport, so that fans know what happened. Them hiding the details of the incident can lead to people thinking they want to hide something,
I can just imagine the press release.

Dognini said: **** ****** **** ******* ***** **** ****** **** ******.
Then went on to say: **** ****** **** ***** ******.

Yeah, can't imagine why they aren't releasing that. Can you?

You can dress a grubby pig in Armani, but he's still what he is.
 

innoVAShaun

Hall of Fame
The match on TCOD doesn't show much of the exchange. The camera operators were more focused on the players' reactions and there were no microphones on the baseline where the exchanges took place. Can't even hear anything on headphones.
 

MadariKatu

Professional
you mean something like making a difference between letting someone to win 73 GS consecutively to making that player remain an unknown amateur?
could you throw some real cases where calling a wrong decision actually made such difference?
How about Serena vs Capriati? That was the turning point in making the hawk eye official:

https://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/11/2004-mariana-alves-missed-call-ushers-hawk-eye/56853/
https://www.si.com/tennis/2015/11/11/history-of-hawk-eye-tennis-umpiring
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I can’t help but think his disqualification was more based on reputation and previous behavior than what actually happened on court.

Of course, if you are a tool all the time people, included even the most reputable umps and refs can get sick of it. Heck, Fed and other higher profile players have had cursing slips, but they are very few and far between.

Oh, and the first part was supposedly calling the ref an SOB, though I haven't heard about other comments from the Fog.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
Of course, if you are a tool all the time people, included even the most reputable umps and refs can get sick of it. Heck, Fed and other higher profile players have had cursing slips, but they are very few and far between.

Oh, and the first part was supposedly calling the ref an SOB, though I haven't heard about other comments from the Fog.
I don’t even like the guy, but I’m just commenting on the seeming lack of video footage and info about what and how it exactly happened. It seems to me that whatever he said, he was muttering it to himself rather than openly directing it at someone.
 

MadariKatu

Professional
which of them turned to become a journeywoman after that wrong decision? instead of marching on and sweeping all major titles
I'm not saying they went on to becoming a journeywoma. I'm saying it changed the history of the sport, as it was mostly due to this match that hawk-eye was implemented.
Also, if not for those bad calls, Serena might have won, having a total of 24, which seems to be her goal now.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
I'm not saying they went on to becoming a journeywoma. I'm saying it changed the history of the sport, as it was mostly due to this match that hawk-eye was implemented.
Also, if not for those bad calls, Serena might have won, having a total of 24, which seems to be her goal now.
every moment changes the history

perhaps if you wouldn't spend this moment in time answering my post, you would have made a great discovery, perhaps even something that would save humanity from covid, but here we are

if someone can consistently hit the ball above the net and make it land within the necessary lines, one bad call won't make a difference between becoming one of the Big 3 or going broke to sleep under the bridge
 

MadariKatu

Professional
every moment changes the history

perhaps if you wouldn't spend this moment in time answering my post, you would have made a great discovery, perhaps even something that would save humanity from covid, but here we are

if someone can consistently hit the ball above the net and make it land within the necessary lines, one bad call won't make a difference between becoming one of the Big 3 or going broke to sleep under the bridge
In that match with Serena it was 5 consecutive bad calls that gave Capriati a game that Serena had won. Sure, every moment changes history, but there are turning points, defining moments, and that was one. It doesn't have to be either big3 or a completely unknown anonymous player, but it can deny a player a grand slam tournament, or the opportunity to fight for it. And that happens not only in tennis, but other sports as well. One doesn't need to be a best of all time, but can have a great run stopped by a wrong call.

Discovering a cure against covid? You need to be a highly qualified person in a specific scientific area, and I'm not. Also, I'm struggling with severe mobility issues at the moment due to a flare up, and can't do much as of now. Psoriatic arthritis is a b¡tch.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
In that match with Serena it was 5 consecutive bad calls that gave Capriati a game that Serena had won. Sure, every moment changes history, but there are turning points, defining moments, and that was one. It doesn't have to be either big3 or a completely unknown anonymous player, but it can deny a player a grand slam tournament, or the opportunity to fight for it. And that happens not only in tennis, but other sports as well. One doesn't need to be a best of all time, but can have a great run stopped by a wrong call.
and yet Serena proceeded to claim quite a bit, didn't she?
which just proves my point that if one person / team is good at something, they'll get to where they deserve

it's one thing to claim this about a tournament that is played once every 4 years, like Olympic Games, World Cup, and another thing about tennis tournaments that are played week in, week out, every year
what do you think will happen if Novak loses his ranking tomorrow and can play only quallies to Futures level tournaments? I'll tell you what happens, in 6 months he'll be back to ATP level
 

MadariKatu

Professional
and yet Serena proceeded to claim quite a bit, didn't she?
which just proves my point that if one person / team is good at something, they'll get to where they deserve

it's one thing to claim this about a tournament that is played once every 4 years, like Olympic Games, World Cup, and another thing about tennis tournaments that are played week in, week out, every year
what do you think will happen if Novak loses his ranking tomorrow and can play only quallies to Futures level tournaments? I'll tell you what happens, in 6 months he'll be back to ATP level
Agreed on olympic games. I was actually thinking on a specific case in a fencing olympic event :)

I think that even if we don't agree on this, we're derailing a bit. I was pointing out a match that is remembered for Serena being robbed very clearly and that being the last straw that broke the camel's back and after it the hawk eye got implemented. So that's bad calling that changed the history of the sport, in my book at least.

I wasn't implying that due to that, Serena's career would crumble down. But some players are not ATGs, and just have one great run. Most of the time it got stopped by a better player or physical issues (Chung, Cecchinato...); for many players, playing a slam final would already be an enormous achievement.
There was a bad calling in the AO between Wawrinka and Djokovic (2013? not sure), that could have meant a break for Wawrinka at the very end of the match. Novak went on to win that game and the next one. Eventually he won the slam, but without that wrong call, Djokovic most probably wouldn't be on 18 slams.
 

Raiden

Hall of Fame
I trust Babolat. I have no reason not to trust them on this. If even they come out in public, then it amounts to an open and shut case.

You can't take this out of Fog. He's too old to grow out of it so there's no need to squirm and wiggle around looking for excuses.

This is who he is — and will be till the end.
 
and we actually know at least 1 case of penalties introduced against an umpire who had the balls to try to force a very humble, but injured person playing tennis, to follow the rules
but nothing happened when the humble person accused an umpire for not liking 'intelligent tennis'

so yeah, @14OuncesStrung players and umpires / linesmen are not in the same position
Excellent and wise post. (I mean this seriously). Your disregard for the Humble Bull is noted and appreciated. However, I do have a taxonomical point: he is not a humble but injured "person" playing tennis. There is a debate in the philosophical literature about whether animals can be considered persons, and it is sometimes argued that those animals that can pass the mirror test should be considered persons. But bulls cannot pass the mirror test.
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
Why can't the linespeople get defaulted? They did the mistake...
Why should the players always suffer a penalty when they get mad at what could be a crucial mistake on a set/break point?
This culture has to stop.
I've yet to see any linesperson swear, or hit a player's neck with a tennis ball, or threaten to shove a ball down anyone's throat! Just maybe that's why!
 
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