.....and the incredibly, painfully, mind numbingly obvious response to both of your preceding posts...is that both players have to play with the same height net...where as if one person is serving 6 inches inside the line, they in effect aren't.
Foot faults
- Thread starter Moveforwardalways
- Start date
.....and the incredibly, painfully, mind numbingly obvious response to both of your preceding posts...is that both players have to play with the same height net...where as if one person is serving 6 inches inside the line, they in effect aren't.
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
Even more numbing is the fact that different players service styles will be greatly impacted by different net heights.
As will all other aspects of their game depending on how they hit the ball.
I'm sorry you overlooked an obvious and easy refutation of the point you were so sure was going to diminish the subject in importance.
In the grand scheme of life, tennis is not important.
In the grand scheme of tennis, foot faults are a significant factor.
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
Couldn't disagree more but we've gone over this ad nauseam....
This topic always raises my curiosity.... Why not just call it? No one would continue to play balls 6 to 12 inches outside the line. Even twice. If ffing is such a hard-fast, irrevocable rule of tennis that provides such a significant advantage to the opponent why do I virtually never see it called? I certainly see it whined about. Just call it.
Because you can't be watching the ball and calling foot faults, so it is on the other persons honor. You usually see someone is a foot faulter when they play other people or in doubles. This has been stated multiple times in the thread. Another obvious answer.
kylebarendrick
Professional
A toe on the line would not represent a foot fault so egregious as to be easily visible to the receiving player - which is the standard in the code for calling it.
Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
this guy tonight in a usta league 4.5 doubles match with no umpire was doing a crazy foot fault first and second serve. on the change over I told him to watch his foot fault, as it was very clear on both first and second.
He said..., "keep your fking mouth shut"
I said... " i'll keep it shut if you quit foot faulting, you foul mouthed foot falter"
He kept foot faulting 6 inches over the line, and I just tried to block it out.
I guess i cant call it..
we lost
I guess I need to pay more attention to the ball and less about his feet, but it was just soo annoying.
The guy is a complete dk... but he won, so I guess that makes him the big winner
He said..., "keep your fking mouth shut"
I said... " i'll keep it shut if you quit foot faulting, you foul mouthed foot falter"
He kept foot faulting 6 inches over the line, and I just tried to block it out.
I guess i cant call it..
we lost
I guess I need to pay more attention to the ball and less about his feet, but it was just soo annoying.
The guy is a complete dk... but he won, so I guess that makes him the big winner
r2473
G.O.A.T.
That's exactly how it happened. By "kept talking to me", I mean that she kept shaking her head yes and showing me with her fingers just how much I foot faulted, because she was expecting me to lose it I think.
Now, the serve in question was probably 120-ish mph. My opponent was confused because he was walking to the back curtain to retrieve it and wasn't quite sure what was going on, even though she did call out "foot fault". I had aced him several times before, so he was getting frustrated by that.
And yes, she did come over and talk to me on the changeover. The whole time I was basically saying "yes, I know I foot faulted lady. Christ, I foot fault on nearly every serve". But I really didn't say anything to her. I was just nodding my head and saying "OK". My opponent seemed to be wishing she would just go away as well.
And she did come back and call my opponent for a foot fault. He must have barely toed the line, because it sure didn't look like he was foot faulting to me. We both sort of looked at each other, and just thought "whatever lady".
I've seen this lady at several tournaments after this and she always has her eyes trained on my when I'm serving. But if I see she is one of the roving officials, I just make it a point to stand a few inches off the line.
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tennis tom
Legend
Maybe she's trying to hit on you, is she HOT? Get her phone number.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
lol, "foul mouthed foot faulter" (fmff)
a perfect example of a no win situation when calling out foot faulters. there's only 2 solutions when someone likely is not to change and there are no roving officials: 1. starting my service motion 1ft inside the baseline 2. beat them with the handicap
Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
I might need to try that as his crazy foot faulting n foul mouth really caused me to lose concentration
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
Another reason I tend to ignore FF's. Anytime I let someone make me mad, it takes me out of my game, and I usually play worse than if I just let it go. The last time that happened to me, my opponent, coming in for drop shot, had stepped on the net, and quickly retracted it, both acknowledging he had done it, and hoping i wouldn't see. I pointed it out, and he denied he did... I lost the point. But worse, I had a meltdown the rest of the match, livid that I had been cheated... what was once a close match, became a runaway for my opponent.
I think I gravitated to martial arts because of bs like this... when your sparring someone, there's no excuses, it's your fault if you get hit or submitted. that's it. also teaches me to control my anger, because if i get mad, i usually make mistakes and get knocked out/down or submitted.
HRB
Hall of Fame
I like to keep knowledge of foot faulting in my pocket for future use if needed, because like a previous poster said, unless they are a S&V player it never really hurts me.
For example, there is a notorious "foot faulter" in my ladder, who also happens to be a total dick that makes bad calls. Last time I played him he started his crap in the second set after I'd cruised through set 1 6-2. I said "you really making THAT call?", he demanded it was out, I stayed calm and said..."No problem, now here is the deal, you foot fault on EVERY serve and no one calls you out on it...I am!". Next Serve.."FAULT', next Serve "FAULT". He was huffing and puffing, putting in weak serves that I smoked back down the line, and he was quickly done..6-1.
This mental midget simply couldn't play after having to adjust to moving his foot back 2 lousy inches??? I kinda felt bad for the dude, if more folks had called him on it years ago he coulda corrected it, but when called out he literally CAN'T serve! LMAO.
I find when playing a foot faulter you are usually not playing a cheater as much as you are playing a bad player, which is why it is rarely called, no need!
For example, there is a notorious "foot faulter" in my ladder, who also happens to be a total dick that makes bad calls. Last time I played him he started his crap in the second set after I'd cruised through set 1 6-2. I said "you really making THAT call?", he demanded it was out, I stayed calm and said..."No problem, now here is the deal, you foot fault on EVERY serve and no one calls you out on it...I am!". Next Serve.."FAULT', next Serve "FAULT". He was huffing and puffing, putting in weak serves that I smoked back down the line, and he was quickly done..6-1.
This mental midget simply couldn't play after having to adjust to moving his foot back 2 lousy inches??? I kinda felt bad for the dude, if more folks had called him on it years ago he coulda corrected it, but when called out he literally CAN'T serve! LMAO.
I find when playing a foot faulter you are usually not playing a cheater as much as you are playing a bad player, which is why it is rarely called, no need!
Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
^^Best way to deal with it. Keep it in reserve in case you need to use it against an a***ole.
Tennis in general does have a major flaw in that many of its rules are subject to interpretation, etiquette, etc...It works fine when you have 2 reasonable, fair and honest people playing each other. But if you have people who aren't, it can really be a nightmare.
It's absolutely the worst thing about rec tennis, the line calls and foot faults. I would pay $200 more per year in league fees no question asked if I could play on a playsight court every match (I assume since playsight is running a video you can point out foot faults to your opponents). Just the amount of BS it would cut down on, it would be more than worth it.
It would then be even better if the rule was this while using playsight: when in doubt, it's in. If you call a ball out that is in, you lose 2 points, not one. Also, if your opponent can scan the video back on your service game and find foot faults, you should lose a point for every single one in the next game. People would just have to play out everything, it would make it so much more about how you hit the ball and not a few inches here or there.
happyloman
Professional
I see a lot of foot faults when I play against others, but I never call them. It just either ****es people off OR they refuse to believe they are foot faulting. Whatever.
tennisjon
Professional
As long as someone isn't serving and volleying or taking a running start into the serve, I don't usually care. Most people could make the same serve without footfaulting by moving a step back. On the other hand, there are people who footfault knowingly and serve & volley and take every advantage. At that point, I toss the ball way in front and high, run up to the service line and spike the serve. It proves its point.
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
If it's been stated multiple times that one reason we don't call ffs because we can't tell if opponent is ffing I accept. Carry on.
Eh....you asked the question, didn't you?
You really need to work on your "arguing on the internet" skills...or your short term memory. You can't ask a question, get an answer, and then act like the person who answered your question shouldn't have answered it.
Quote: tennis_ocd
"Couldn't disagree more but we've gone over this ad nauseam....
This topic always raises my curiosity.... Why not just call it? No one would continue to play balls 6 to 12 inches outside the line. Even twice. If ffing is such a hard-fast, irrevocable rule of tennis that provides such a significant advantage to the opponent why do I virtually never see it called? I certainly see it whined about. Just call it. "
tennis tom
Legend
Club/rec players don't normally call ff's because they are there for social reasons, to have a beer, flirt around and maybe break a sweat--it would not look social to call ff's--it's the un-written rule. For a competitive player playing in that venue, he's there for the practice. It's a meaningless event, making an issue out of ff's would prevent him from hitting as many shots as possible and not contribute to moving the game along.
For a tournament player, he's not going to ff. He's trained himself not to because he knows there will be officials who will call him on it, costing him points and his peers will have weeded him out if he does it.
For a tournament player, he's not going to ff. He's trained himself not to because he knows there will be officials who will call him on it, costing him points and his peers will have weeded him out if he does it.
tennis tom
Legend
I have x-ray vision and can tell. It's really easy for the net man to see it in dubs. If anyone needs the name of a good eye-doc let me know and I'll give you his number. The eyes have muscles too, vision, like any other aspect of the game can be worked on.
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
You need to tweak your sarcasm sensor. You're certainly free to answer -- even when wrong.
Egregious FFs by known ff'ers aren't ignored due to lack of seeing/knowledge. Tom's ^^^ on the right path. There is a stigma against this call; rooted in the fact that many perceive it as rather chickens%$*. And for the reasons perpetrated on these ff threads.... It's a call that virtually always involves gamesmanship mixed with sour grapes.
If it's gamesmanship...then why do USTA officials call them? I mean, they can't be important, right?
They are sour grapes who you call them when you lose. They are gamesmanship if you point them out before a match. The only way you are even partially safe calling the ffer out is if you have won the match, and even then you will get push back....because you always get pushback from cheaters, or a guy who just lost might not want to hear that they should have lost by an even greater margin then they did.
I have no problems having a confrontation on the court if its warranted. I've been playing in my league for a long time, and it's only happened two or three times (not about ffs), and both times I've gotten pats on the back from other players who had wanted to say things to these people.
There are guys who complain to my league coordinator about foot faulting all the time..I'm not one of them.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
The bottom line here is that no one is going to start calling them, for many of the reasons listed above. However, if you are one of the foot faulters, you should realize this and correct it. It really is poor form and even if no one is calling you on it, they are talking about it behind your back and it is costing you in other ways. You better believe it.
I was playing a USTA tournament and i could see the guy was hitting big serves and footfaulting..I asked for an umpire and the umpire said i had to stop and ask him (the umpire) each time if the last serve was a footfault..If the umpire decided it was a footfault it was 2nd serve or my point..If the umpire decided it wasn't a footfault i automatically lost the point..
In another USTA tournament i saw a player ask for an umpire to call footfaults and the umpire just called them outright..
In another USTA tournament i saw a player ask for an umpire to call footfaults and the umpire just called them outright..
r2473
G.O.A.T.
So he's generally a dick, fights line calls, but just accepts your foot fault call, no question? Even though it caused him so much of a problem? Weird dude.
Because I'd think a guy like that would either refuse to accept your call or retaliate in kind. I mean after all, if you can call a FF from across the court, I'd imagine he could too.
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schmke
Legend
I don't know if tournaments are handled differently or if the guidance given to official varies, but I was at our USTA League local playoffs last night and the official was calling foot faults if they saw them with no warning and no need by the receiver to do anything.
There was one particularly egregious FFer, probably did it on 3 of every 4 serves, first or second, usually a full 12-18 inches over the line and several times center line foot faults. When the roving official showed up on the court, the very first serve was a FF. Later and center line FF was also called.
Yes, the FFer lost the match, although they were already down before the official showed up so you can't say whether having to adjust or not affected them.
tennis tom
Legend
This is what I've observed also, in unofficiated matches you have to give them a warning first.
GatorTennis
Rookie
I just start foot faulting myself, if my opponent is. I have a pretty decent serve. I can consistently crack 100mph and I'm sub 4.5. So when I take the extra 6-9 inches, my first serve pts really pop up. Then someone usually cries about it, where I reply that I thought it was ok since they did it consistently in their first service game.
Jonboy
Rookie
Im playing a men's doubles tournament at my club soon. My partner has one of the worst foot faults in the entire club. Not only does his lead leg go over the line but the back one also. Its not even marginal. He's a good player but average serve and we should get to the semis or final. The problem is I know he's going to get called on it and am worried he'll go to pot. So I may suggest he changes it, but I dont want to offend him.
Tennisguy3000
Semi-Pro
I got called on this in a friendly doubles match the other day! I have a flat footed serve until I push up and hit the ball... and then into the court... I told the accuser as much 
Old thread but still relevant ;-)
Old thread but still relevant ;-)
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Looking back at my posts from 6 years ago, I was pretty salty about this foot fault thing. Lol. I guess old age has mellowed me out.
Cashman
Hall of Fame
In my experience most players who repeatedly foot fault, do so because they have a bad toss/serve mechanics. As a result I don’t get too bent out of shape about it.
i don’t think I’ve ever faced a player who repeatedly foot faults and felt like they were gaining a measurable advantage. If anything I would probably have a lot more trouble if they were tossing more accurately and driving up into the ball instead of falling into the court.
i don’t think I’ve ever faced a player who repeatedly foot faults and felt like they were gaining a measurable advantage. If anything I would probably have a lot more trouble if they were tossing more accurately and driving up into the ball instead of falling into the court.
Reclaim your youth. Stay salty. Foot faulting is a crime!!!
hehe, i used to be a stickler for it too...
i've even played against opponents that just refused to play because my partner kept foot faulting (by like 3-4in) - claimed "i'm not gonna play if you can't play by the rules"... they defaulted.
nowadays i just treat it like a training modifier... 9x out of 10 chronic foot faulters typically have poor technique anyway that eventually breaks down.... (ie. they foot fault cuz they can't control their balance)
jered
Rookie
If a server has terrible mechanics or is in general a bad server, I let it slide even if they're basically stepping all the way into the court. They simply aren't getting any advantage. If it's a great server who is painting lines and hitting bombs, I'm calling it every single time, you should know better.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Some people are just unaware of what their feet are doing because they are completely immersed in all of the other facets of serving. They won't believe you until they see video proof.
Some are aware of it and exploit it.
I, for example, have been struggling with a "wandering front foot" problem for several years. Since I haven't managed to fix it completely, I stand a foot behind the BL for margin.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
You need good leg strength and then forward weight transfer to keep your front foot immobile while going through the serve motion. Most rec players footfault because they are weaker physically in their lower limbs and can’t weight transfer to the toes of their front foot reliably without losing their balance during the toss. They should stand further back from the baseline and serve, but they are not going to stop their front foot from moving forward otherwise without building up more leg strength. My guess is that at least 80% of rec players below 4.5 footfault on a majority of points, but I also agree with others that it doesn’t buy them any advantage. I don’t call footfaults in rec tennis.
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S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
That's what I don't understand: my feet don't move when I do squats or prepping for a volleyball jump, for example. I assume it's because there's no advantage to moving them and there's even a disadvantage.
So why on earth do I move my front foot while tossing? There's no bio-mechanical reason.
I've given up trying to understand why I do it and am concentrating on fixing it. I've gotten better but I can still feel it wanting to move. Sometimes I look down after catching a bad toss and see my front foot has moved, as if it was controlled by someone else [which, in a way, it was: my unconscious serve program running autonomously].
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Maybe this video will help you as he talks about the front foot movement issue after two minutes. You have to weight transfer to the toes of your front foot during the toss and when the body weight is mostly on your front foot, it will keep the front foot immobile.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I have a slightly different problem: the one he's demonstrating is moving the front foot as the toss is leaving his hand. I don't do that. I commit the fault as the toss is reaching its apex.
However, I will be more mindful of my weight transfer. It makes perfect sense that the more weight is on the front foot, the more difficult it will be to move that foot. However, I don't want to become imbalanced by putting too much weight on the front foot because then I won't be able to push off as efficiently [ie solving one problem and creating another, bigger problem].
chatt_town
Hall of Fame
That's the one thing I've rarely seen people call and that's because most of the time...at least one person on each side of the court is doing it if not all 4 of you. The next thing is for the average player...it's not making that big of a difference. You have to be careful when you raise hell about that to. Case in point. I had someone do that to me at a state tourney one year(and I probably was foot faulting). So the deal was though that my serve was all of 26 mph but my fitness was top notch at this time. It's about 97 no wind...peeeerfect for me. The other team gets a ref to come down and she was there for two serves..."Foot fault!!!"...I'm like ...okay...so I step back like a whole foot behind the baseline and push the ball in and go to hitting 15 and 20 ground strokes...each point...win the game and then he wants to take like 5 minutes on the cross over...ooooo hell nawl...so I forced her to make him get up after the 90 seconds...of course he ended up losing because I also made her enforce the 30 second clock of serving....so if we are going to call my 26 mph serving foot faulting then lets enforce all the rules.lol So you have to be careful what you start enforcing...So that clearly backfired on him.lol
