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Deleted member 758560
Guest
schumacher greater than senna, senna can be better driver, it's arguable, but not the best in terms of greatness
For me, Fed has surpassed Jordan, Brady and Gretzky
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Deleted member 758560
Guest
in terms of who stands out the most for their respective sport, no question it is gretzky. statistically it's gretzky but culturally it's jordan, also basketball is more popular, the NHL retired his number 99 league-wide, making him the only player to receive such an honour, that somehow give a hint.
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Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
WTF does "in the leading country in all the world" mean?The most popular sport in the leading country in all the world. But please, tell us more about these ATG cricket and billiards players
Do you need to be *****-slapped with a basic lesson in politics and history?
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Actually, it's not that easy because some sports have much higher variance in performance than others. For example, a great football team's results will typically have lower variance than an equivalently great tennis player because team sports tend to average out performances and the great or poor days of individuals within the team. Tennis, by contrast, is the opposite - more so because virtually every match is a knock-out pressure scenario, also unlike football. If you look at betting odds for various sports you can see the variance factored into the odds offered.
Neither is better or worse, they're just different in certain ways which makes any attempt to calculate a GOAT of all GOATs using metrics much harder than it might seem.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Don't be dissing Space Jam.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
In terms of who from the mentioned is further ahead of all other players statistic wise it has to be Gretzky. His numbers are ridiculous, he has more assists than anybody else has point. Enough said. He has the highest points/game and the margin between him and the No.2 on this list is actually higher than the average number of points per game for all NHL players. Neither Jordan, nor Brady nor Federer are so far ahead of anybody in their respective sport.
Djokodalerer31
Hall of Fame
Cassius Clay (Ali) -> Edson Arantes do Nascimento (Pele) -> Michael Jordan -> Roger Federer -> Tiger Woods -> Ronnie O'Sallivan -> Michael Schumaher -> Ole Einar Bjorndalen -> The rest! There are more than one co-GOAT in each respective sport obviously, like Mike Tyson in boxing, Diego Maradona in footabll, Rafa and Novak in tennis, Stephen Hendry in Snooker etc...but they are only second to GOATs of respective sport, so i listed the "kings" in order!
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
You are of course entitled to your opinion but there is no way I rate Ali higher than Pele or Jordan. Ali is not even GOAT in boxing to begin with, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis and Sugar Ray have equally good if not better cases. Ali's reputation comes to a large part from things outside of the sport (Vietnam war, big mouth, sickness etc.). Jordan and especially Pele were definitely more dominant in his era than Ali on top of basketball and football being far more popular sports. A guy like Wayne Gretzky must be way higher than Schuhmacher, Sullivan or any other one from sports nobody cares about.
daddy
Legend
If I recall correctly Bird referred to him as a god when he scored 64 points in a playoff game vs Boston.
daddy
Legend
True, Fed could never be a professional basketball, football or hockey player while the other great athletes could possibly be great tennis players. Federer is probably the greatest tennis player of all time, but not necessarily the greatest athlete.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
For me it's Robert Horry.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
There isn't any way for to prove that statement.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
True this. Bird never owned Jordan. It is true that Jordan's Bulls never won a playoff game against Bird's Celtics, but this was due to the fact that Bird had a team stacked with ATGs. Same logic when anyone is seriously claiming Bill Russell > Wilt because he is 7-1 in playoff series against him. With this dumb logic even the worst bench player of the Boston Celtics during those playoff meetings would be better than Jordan.
SecondServeAce
Rookie
Not really. Those guys dominated their main rival/contemporaries most of the time. Fed couldn't even manage to do that half the time against his. Which is why Nadal and Joker have 32 slams and counting still) They are the undisputed GOATs at their professions. Fed will be lucky to be top 4-5 all time when the dust settles.
If there is a paper GOAT in tennis, it looks more like Laver/Sampras/Gonzales/Djokovic at this point. They didn't let their main rivals get the best of them all the time. Nadal let Djokovic get to him. Fed has let both Nadal/Djokovic get in his head
If there is a paper GOAT in tennis, it looks more like Laver/Sampras/Gonzales/Djokovic at this point. They didn't let their main rivals get the best of them all the time. Nadal let Djokovic get to him. Fed has let both Nadal/Djokovic get in his head
RaulRamirez
Legend
This is silly: Bill Russell was a much more integral part of each of his championships than Big Shot Bob - and Russ had 11. Not saying he's GOAT but possibly the best team sport winner.
T1000
Legend
He hasn’t come close to passing Gretzky. He’s about equal with Brady both have similar resumes. Jordan isn’t the undisputed goat unless you’re a casual. Kareem and lebron both have legitimate arguments against him and if we’re including players before the modern era wilt also has a claim
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Deleted member 758560
Guest
cool avatar
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Bill Russell played in the NBA's "amateur era" and was a Celtics baby while Horry wasn't dependent on a single team. Won multiple rings with three (3) different teams.
RaulRamirez
Legend
I know you're kidding at this point, or should be, anyway...
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Well I like to meme Robert Horry as the real goat of basketball. The patrician's pick.
pistolPetros
New User
I don't think those guys were consistently owned by their rivals though
MarcusInKensington
Hall of Fame
Try comparing him to participants in global sports.
He’s certainly better than all of them at teniss.
He’s certainly better than all of them at teniss.
RaulRamirez
Legend
If you're an NHL fan, or were, do you recall Claude Lemieux? Like Horry, he was mediocre in the regular season, but money in the postseason. Unlike Horry, he was an annoying cheapshot artist.
FWIW Dept.: Career points per game is actually one statistic in which Gretzky does not enjoy incredible domination. He's only slightly ahead of Mario Lemieux, 1.921 vs. 1.883. Moreover, Gretzky is in first place only because Lemieux staged a comeback after three years of injury-based retirement. Lemieux's career PPG after his first retirement, in 1997, was 2.005 -- ahead of Gretzky's career figure. Coming back to the sport when he was old and lame (literally) pushed Lemieux down a bit. Still, Lemieux's PPG for his final five seasons, in which he played only 229 games due to various health problems, was 1.347. That subpar stretch alone would be No. 5 on the all-time NHL career PPG list! Old man Lemieux's decrepit years are ahead of Sidney Crosby's career in this regard.
It's also worth noting that Gretzky is ranked only No. 7 in career goals per game.
RaulRamirez
Legend
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Deleted member 716271
Guest
Actually, no one can impact a game more than a great quarterback. If teams were drafting all time greats to have for their careers, everyone would pick a quarterback as their 1st pick. Brady's the best player ever.
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
None. He has the most rings of any athlete to play in the NFL and is 2 clear of the next closest QB. He holds all the playoff records for his position by a large margin and most of the regular season records for his position as well. Montana is the closest in rings but doesn't have the stats and Manning is the closest in stats but doesn't have the rings. He's actually more the consensus GOAT than Federer and currently doesn't have a losing record to any single team in the NFL. Also he's the oldest QB to win a Super Bowl coming off his third straight appearance. The list of his achievements just goes on and on.
Thanks for that.
I got that impression. It’s an amazing feat. He is pretty clean too right and can see him as a great role model.
If Djokovic and Nadal fail to meet or even overtake Federer’s achievements I can see his lasting for a LONG time. But we had that feeling with Sampras didn’t we?
We are comparing players however in team sports versus individual. Would Brady fair well if he had below average receivers? Not a rhetorical question
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Deleted member 716271
Guest
He has for most of his career, especially on the SB winning teams
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
No comparison between an individual sport and a team sport. Jordan and Brady didn't win 6 titles, the Bulls and the Patriots did. Football the ultimate team sport. Basketball less so. Bulls don't win 6 without Jordan. But they don't win 6 without Pippen. With the Patriots,they still win 3 or 4 Super Bowls without Brady.
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Deleted member 758560
Guest
i assume we can bring some analogy with european football.. don't know much about american football(in europe it's not so popular), but let's look at two groups of players..first it's forwards: messi(let alone his playmaking abilities as well), ronaldo, mbappe, neymar ..and second..midfielders(playmakers): modric, xavi, iniesta, pirlo. it's a matter of taste)) yes, playmaker is a brain of a team, most strategy and further ball location depends on him, but more attention and popularity from the crowd, fans, awards goes to forwards, playmakers tend to be in the shadow of forwards for the most part..same situation with basketball.. jordan, bryant are shooting guards(equivalent of recievers in american football) more popular than point guards(iverson, nash, magic johnson, stockton) as equivalent of quarterbacks...forwards rely on playmakers but playmakers don't rely on forwards)
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Eren
Professional
Madrid don't win 3 consecutive CL and 4/5 without Ronaldo. IIRC, he scored 30 goals in KO stage of the CL the four times they won.
TennisLBC
Professional
^This. Oh, and let's not forget Russell's NCAA Titles, Olympic Title, and having being treat like a second-class citizen.
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
Absolutely false. Brady leads the NFL in game winning drives. The only season they missed the playoffs was the one in which he was out all year. No way are they where they are without the most clutch player in their sport at the helm.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
You are right, I got it wrong somehow. Read this stat in some hockey forum, should maybe have checked it again. Regarding the goals per game and the fact that he only is ahead due to Lemieux comeback we also have to factor in that Gretzky stayed a long until he was 38 and well past his prime which consequently put his averages down similar to wilt chamberlain who would never be second to Jordan in points per game had he retired 2 or 3 years earlier. In his Edmonton Times Gretzky’s Point statistics were way better than later. He also actually holds the record for most goals per game over one season (in 84 I believe).
er4claw
Rookie
The 1-0 match was weird in itself because because didn't score on Karelin. It was grip rule that was introduced not long ago and disappeared shortly after. The rule was dumb and had nothing to do with greco roman. Gardner was a blip in karelins career. If you would have asked karelin before the 00 olympics he wouldn't have listed Gardner in his top 20 opponents probably. He was just some guy he easily beat in 97 and met one time. But karelin had declined by 2000, no one could score on him in a real wrestling sense but he was struggling with offense and could no longer throw elite opponents which is why he retired after the games. But there are other situations. Karelin apparently got a 0-0 decision against Mureiko in 98 according to wiki. He also got really lucky in 96 agaisnt mureiko. Karelin was injured and maybe at 75 percent while Mureiko was a beast at those games. Karelin couldn't score on him and he got lucky when Mureiko threw karelin on top of himself which was the score.
The only thing karelin never did was pin all his opponents at the olympics like yarygin and someone will eventually win 4 Ogs. Too many people have won 3.
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
Absolutely false. Brady is 4th all time in game winning drives, at 44. 10 behind Peyton Manning, and behind Brees and Marino...who have how many super bowls? "The system" wins super bowls in New England. That and cheating.
That's basically correct, but one important difference (it seems to me) is that Gretzky's prolonged career may have hurt his seasonal averages, but it also padded his career totals, which are a big part of his legend. A long career drives up the cumulative numbers while diminishing the averages. A player must take the bitter with the sweet. I'm not sure that Lemieux's comeback stretch of five years achieved anything that matters to anyone in terms of career totals. His legacy was always going to based mostly on peak performance, not cumulative numbers, due to his bad health. So in Mario's case, the impact on career PPG wasn't really offset by anything significant. He had 613 goals before the comeback and 690 afterward, so he didn't even reach the 700-goal threshold. OK, Lemieux did pass 1,000 career assists thanks to the comeback, which may matter to some fans, although he's still only 11th all-time.
Gretzky's PPG in his final five seasons was 1.117.
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Service Ace
Hall of Fame
Less than Brady COMBINED.
Lol of course you're a saltlord. You'd have to be one to consider choking dog HGH cheat Peyton the GOAT of anything.
And for the record www.yourteamcheats.com don't @ me
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NEW_BORN
Hall of Fame
I was taking you seriously unless you mentioned Lebron. Even though i'm a fan of his, he is not even in the same ball park as Jordan.
NEW_BORN
Hall of Fame
For me greatness is not all about numbers, Jordan has made such an impact on not just basketball but sport in general that just about anyone on planet earth knows his name.
NEW_BORN
Hall of Fame
I agree that Federer hasn't matched Laver in some categories, but based on overall tennis ability as well as impact on tennis i believe he has long surpassed him.
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clout
Hall of Fame
Gretzky was easily the most dominant against his peers. Jordan is pretty clearly the NBA GOAT as well and is a worldwide icon. As for Brady, he’s an incredibly good player but his number of Super Bowls are the only argument he has for being the GOAT and that’s a team achievement not an individual one
