For me, Fed has surpassed Jordan, Brady and Gretzky

I am the Greatest!

Professional
Yep its between Shaq and Hakeem IMO. Coincidentally both were up against my spurs in Robinson and TD which made me hate Shaq for a while lol.

Lebron is on another level. I seriously think he's the GOAT. I mean people are already calling him the best overall player of all time. The fk does that mean? They are just afraid of the backlash they will recieve from MJ and kobe t@rds. But I digress.
LOL @LeBron being the GOAT. :rolleyes:

Says too much of your standard. Jordan had the greatest peak in basketball bar none. 1988 to 1993 was the highest level of play ever seen from a player and I was alive to see that. And Olajuwon has six other years to reach Jordan but he didn't. ******** with 1994 and 1995 criticizing MJ not reaching the Finals when he was out and just came back 17 games left in the season. So where was Olajuwon from 1991 to 1993 and 1996 to 1998? Arguments doesn't work on your way only when it's convenient for you bud.

LeBron is inferior to Jordan in skills, accollades, and mentality. Give me a series where Jordan choked big time.
 

mr tonyz

Semi-Pro
How many Slams would equal an NBA Championship? Would 1 NBA Ring to 4 Slams sound about right?? Considering a Slam is only played over a 2 week period & such.

Then once we add say WTFs , perhaps 6/1 there

Masters 12/1?

So Slam 4/1
WTF 6/1
M1000 12/1
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
How many Slams would equal an NBA Championship? Would 1 NBA Ring to 4 Slams sound about right?? Considering a Slam is only played over a 2 week period & such...
We should also then deduct the percentage of NBA championships a player earned commensurate to the percentage of game time he was not on the court - whether being subbed, injury or otherwise.
 

citybert

Hall of Fame
What an idiot
he came in on the decline of Magic and Bird and missed the peak of Kobe and shaq. MJ still goat and maybe goat of all sports but he did get a little lucky. Not a knock since he couldnt control that but need to recognize

I know weak era can also be harder since there is only one target and they had custom built teams just to play vs Jordan pacers, jazz and knicks all pretty much built rosters with jordan in mind. But its still would have beeen harder if he was born a little earlier or later.
 

TheMaestro1990

Hall of Fame
Is this a bad joke? Turn on the tv. Every 20 seconds, there's a football figure from a different generation talking about him as either the greatest ever or at the very least 2nd to Diego:

Lionel Messi will go down in history as the No. 1 player of all time, the best that there ever was.

- Ossie Ardiles

Messi is out of this planet, I would say he is so far ahead of the rest of the players playing right now and I would say historically as well. There are not words to describe him. - Ardilles

Messi is better than Maradona and Pelé. Every week he shows that he is capable of things that no one had done until now. Messi defies the laws of anatomy, he must have an extra bone in his ankle --Carlos Bianchi,

Messi is Maradona every day. He has played at the level of Maradona in 1986 for the past five years-Jorge Valdano, 2013

Messi is the best player I've ever seen, better than Maradona and Cruyff combined -Marcial Pina

He's a problem solver, a game changer, the greatest player to have played the game. I am more than 60 years old now, and I don't believe that I've seen, or that I'm likely to see, anyone better in my lifetime. The world's best when I was growing up was Pele and he would have been a great player now, too, but Messi surpasses him. He's also way out ahead of Diego Maradona - it's not even close anymore - Graeme Souness, 2015

Messi makes the difference. I think he has reached and surpassed the level of Maradona-Paolo Maldini, 2015

Who is the Best Player in the World? Leo Messi. Who is the Best Player Ever? Leo Messi." -Arsene Wenger

I like Messi a lot, he’s a great player. Technically, we’re practically at the same level- Pele

I never ever thought I would say that there was a better player than Maradona since he was in my time and I was in awe of him, but I honestly think for a number of reasons that Messi has surpassed him. He can do anything that Maradona did, and he does it more frequently and consistently-Gary Lineker, 2015

The best by far is Messi. Second is Maradona, third is Pele and Di Stefano. Fifth is Cruyff, Zidane or Pele - José Luis Chilavert, 2015


"Messi is the best in the world without any doubt and for me the history of football." Luis Enrique

"Messi is the best player ever. And this is said by someone who has seen Maradona and Pele play." - AC Milan chief Adriano Galliani

I think about the great players with whom I have shared a pitch: Eric Cantona, Zinedine Zidane, Pirlo, Xavi, Cristiano Ronaldo – and the greatest of them all is Messi - Paul Scholes, 2015

Messi is best player ever. Some say Pele, Cruyff or Maradona, but none of them was as decisive as Messi-Ronald Koeman

"I have played against Platini, Maradona, Cruyff and played with George Best — a lot of big names, but none of them has been able to do what Messi does. Two years ago I said that the best player I played against was Maradona and the best player I have played with was Bestie. But I can now say I have never seen a player as good as Messi. He’s in a league of his own." - Former Tottenham star Gerry Armstrong

"Fella’s a genius. Best ever by a distance in my life time. Never really saw Pele… Souness, Gullit, Venables and now Rooney agree Messi is the best they have seen. He plays a game with which we are not familiar." - Gary Lineker

"I played with Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Laudrup and Stoichkov but Messi is the best I’ve seen." - Former Barcelona and Chelsea star Albert Ferrer

"Messi is better than Maradona; he is more complete, more consistent, more spectacular. He is reinventing the game – a mix of the real and the virtual." - Tostão


"Comparing CR7 to Messi is an exercise of ignorance in football. Messi is Messi and others, footballers." - Spanish manager Miguel Angel Lotina


I genuinely cannot believe that you asked me to show you stuff that's been on every television station and repeated in multiple documentaries over the years. It's either you've been living under a rock or that you don' understand football. Everyone has heard statements from Maradona's ex teammates rating Messi ahead of him and footballers playing against Maradona doing the same.

Some of them have been made in UCL finals (Souness in 2011 for example) so the entire world heard them except for You, it seems

Regarding the secnd statement, are you serious or you just trying to be daft? Need I explain to you that there are 11 footballers on a pitch and that no one individual singleshandidly wins a tournament?
The difference between 1986 and 2014 was that Maradona's teammates took their chances and Messi's didn't.
Their legacies are not predicated on whether a teammate scored or messed up a chance. They'e out of the play at that point.

Surely, this isn't too complicated. Do you watch football, at all?
Brilliant post.

Besides, the highest quality football isn’t at the World Cup like it was in the 50s up to the 70s. It’s in the Champions League.
 

I am the Greatest!

Professional
he came in on the decline of Magic and Bird and missed the peak of Kobe and shaq. MJ still goat and maybe goat of all sports but he did get a little lucky. Not a knock since he couldnt control that but need to recognize

I know weak era can also be harder since there is only one target and they had custom built teams just to play vs Jordan pacers, jazz and knicks all pretty much built rosters with jordan in mind. But its still would have beeen harder if he was born a little earlier or later.
Magic was still in his prime in 1991. It was not his level of play that was in question. It's his HIV. And Jordan was 35 in 1998. So what's your excuse?

Missed Kobe and Shaq? Amazing! You realize those two didn't win anything until Phil came in 2001, no? Bringing some of the Bulls' roster in LA. LOL. Weak era is ****. The weakest era is the 70s. The 90s had ton of hall of famers, and Jordan was the best amongst them.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
he came in on the decline of Magic and Bird and missed the peak of Kobe and shaq. MJ still goat and maybe goat of all sports but he did get a little lucky. Not a knock since he couldnt control that but need to recognize

I know weak era can also be harder since there is only one target and they had custom built teams just to play vs Jordan pacers, jazz and knicks all pretty much built rosters with jordan in mind. But its still would have beeen harder if he was born a little earlier or later.
The other big stars of that era were either not as good in the playoffs because most of their scoring relied on laxer regular season defense and they weren't as good when defenses got tighters and they were forced to ISO or fight through double teams (stockton/malone, robinson, drexler) or played on garbage teams for most of their prime (Barkley, Hakeem). It helped that the 2nd or 3rd best wing of the decade, and certainly the best wing defender, was on his own team. I still think Jordan is the GOAT because he never had a 2011 finals like moment, and LeBron appears to be going downhill right now so the chances of him seriously contributing to his legacy is low, but LeBron has faced far superior teams in the finals. You can argue that all of his opponents were equal/better than the best opponent Jordan faced.
 

AiRFederer

Hall of Fame
Lmao fed gets crap for a weak era yet MJ gets a pass for his? They made the RS record on a transitional year. Dude basically beasted on baby teams LMAO.

Lebron otoh has faced a GOATing Dirk, Spurs' Big 3 plus Kawhi, KD Harden Westbrook, 73 9 warriors on his championship runs.

Oh and btw Im far from being a Lebron fan, but MJ and kobe fans shtting on bron are just so funny. Dudes probably believe in that "mamba mentality" or whatever abstract concept that gets too overused.
 

citybert

Hall of Fame
Magic was still in his prime in 1991. It was not his level of play that was in question. It's his HIV. And Jordan was 35 in 1998. So what's your excuse?

Missed Kobe and Shaq? Amazing! You realize those two didn't win anything until Phil came in 2001, no? Bringing some of the Bulls' roster in LA. LOL. Weak era is ****. The weakest era is the 70s. The 90s had ton of hall of famers, and Jordan was the best amongst them.
Magic was 31 in 1991, that is far from his prime or peak especially for point guards. yes now guys are playing more into their 30s but not back then and even now decline in all the advance stats set in after 30 for most point guards. Kobe couldnt even buy beer when Jordan won his last ring in 1998 so he was far from his prime. Not sure what your point is.

Ill even try and help you a little - He did have isiah, chuck and mailman to go up against but isiah had a terrible injury too early in his career that ended it, chuck never came into the season in shape and yes suns were a hard opponent and Utah was old by the time they had a good roster around them. Yes I know I missed GP and ewing but even with those 5 it wasnt as much as the competition as today.

Plus there was expansion in 1995 so the rosters were slightly diluted and globalization of the nba didnt fully set in until much later in the 90s. Only the absolute best players like kukoc, dino, vlade and drazen came. there were very few players from Africa or south america like we see today. Yes DK and the dream were HOF but those were pretty much it. And most of the HOF guys were in the west the only one in the east was Ewing and Reggie. So Jordan benefited from all those guys beating themselves.

I think we should just agree to disagree here.
 
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Brilliant post.

Besides, the highest quality football isn’t at the World Cup like it was in the 50s up to the 70s. It’s in the Champions League.
It's true that the Barcelona team that Messi played for had more quality players than did the Argentina team he played for.

Which is why he was able to achieve more with the former.

Maradona OTOH single-handedly dragged a mediocre Argentina team to the World Cup in 1986, and single-handedly dragged a mediocre Napoli team to Serie A titles in the early 80s/late 90s.

Messi isn't even the greatest club player of all time - that's Di Stefano.

I see however that Messi has many apologists on this forum though, so I'm probably fighting a pointless battle with my posts on this topic. :rolleyes:
 

AiRFederer

Hall of Fame
Magic was 31 in 1991, that is far from his prime or peak especially for point guards. yes now guys are playing more into their 30s but not back then and even now decline in all the advance stats set in after 30 for most point guards. Kobe couldnt even buy beer when Jordan won his last ring in 1998 so he was far from his prime. Not sure what your point is.

Ill even try and help you a little - He did have isiah, chuck and mailman to go up against but isiah had a terrible injury too early in his career that ended it, chuck never came into the season in shape and yes suns were a hard opponent and Utah was old by the time they had a good roster around them. Yes I know I missed GP and ewing but even with those 5 it wasnt as much as the competition as today.

Plus there was expansion in 1995 so the rosters were slightly diluted and globalization of the nba didnt fully set in until much later in the 90s. Only the absolute best players like kukoc, dino, vlade and drazen came. there were very few players from Africa or south america like we see today. Yes DK and the dream were HOF but those were pretty much it. And most of the HOF guys were in the west the only one in the east was Ewing and Reggie. So Jordan benefited from all those guys beating themselves.

I think we should just agree to disagree here.
Karl Malone, has there ever been a more known perennial playoff choker? LMAO who are these supposed ATGs that Jordan faced?
 

TheMaestro1990

Hall of Fame
It's true that the Barcelona team that Messi played for had more quality players than did the Argentina team he played for.

Which is why he was able to achieve more with the former.

Maradona OTOH single-handedly dragged a mediocre Argentina team to the World Cup in 1986, and single-handedly dragged a mediocre Napoli team to Serie A titles in the early 80s/late 90s.

Messi isn't even the greatest club player of all time - that's Di Stefano.

I see however that Messi has many apologists on this forum though, so I'm probably fighting a pointless battle with my posts on this topic. :rolleyes:
What you are forgetting is that football is a team sport with 10 (!) other players from your team on the pitch simultaneously. No matter how good you are, you can't always decide a game on your own. Maradona is famous because he "single-handedly" dragged Argentina to the WC title. That's a bit of ********, to be honest, while I do agree that Maradona in 1986 was the most influental player a World Cup has ever seen. But let's say Messi had Valdano and/or Burruchaga on his team and Maradona had Higuain on his team back in 1986. Maradona didn't score in the final against West Germany even though his team scored three goals. With Higuain switched with Burruchaga OR Valdano, Argentina would have been WC champions in 2014 and Maradona perhaps would not have been one. I know that this is "ifs" and "buts", but the argument stands. You are making this matter too black and white when it's really a lot more complex than that.

In a team sport with as many players as in football, you can't blame or lift one guy to the sky based on results in one tournament that is played every fourth year. You gotta see the bigger picture.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Magic was 31 in 1991, that is far from his prime or peak especially for point guards. yes now guys are playing more into their 30s but not back then and even now decline in all the advance stats set in after 30 for most point guards. Kobe couldnt even buy beer when Jordan won his last ring in 1998 so he was far from his prime. Not sure what your point is.

Ill even try and help you a little - He did have isiah, chuck and mailman to go up against but isiah had a terrible injury too early in his career that ended it, chuck never came into the season in shape and yes suns were a hard opponent and Utah was old by the time they had a good roster around them. Yes I know I missed GP and ewing but even with those 5 it wasnt as much as the competition as today.

Plus there was expansion in 1995 so the rosters were slightly diluted and globalization of the nba didnt fully set in until much later in the 90s. Only the absolute best players like kukoc, dino, vlade and drazen came. there were very few players from Africa or south america like we see today. Yes DK and the dream were HOF but those were pretty much it. And most of the HOF guys were in the west the only one in the east was Ewing and Reggie. So Jordan benefited from all those guys beating themselves.

I think we should just agree to disagree here.
Also that old ass 91 Lakers team was decimated by injury by the finals.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Karl Malone, has there ever been a more known perennial playoff choker? LMAO who are these supposed ATGs that Jordan faced?
Like I said, all the stars in Jordan's era either were known playoff underperformers (Ewing, Malone, Robinson) or played on garbage teams at their peaks (Hakeem, Barkley). Also helps that the best wing defender of the decade was on Jordan's own team and he only played Drexler once (and was absolutely absurdly good in that finals to his credit) so the competition on the perimeter was extremely mediocre. Wasn't great against Payton in 96.
 

tenisdecente

Hall of Fame
What you are forgetting is that football is a team sport with 10 (!) other players from your team on the pitch simultaneously. No matter how good you are, you can't always decide a game on your own. Maradona is famous because he "single-handedly" dragged Argentina to the WC title. That's a bit of ********, to be honest, while I do agree that Maradona in 1986 was the most influental player a World Cup has ever seen. But let's say Messi had Valdano and/or Burruchaga on his team and Maradona had Higuain on his team back in 1986. Maradona didn't score in the final against West Germany even though his team scored three goals. With Higuain switched with Burruchaga OR Valdano, Argentina would have been WC champions in 2014 and Maradona perhaps would not have been one. I know that this is "ifs" and "buts", but the argument stands. You are making this matter too black and white when it's really a lot more complex than that.

In a team sport with as many players as in football, you can't blame or lift one guy to the sky based on results in one tournament that is played every fourth year. You gotta see the bigger picture.
If Messi was not even able to take Argentina to the cup against a just decent Chile team (Argentina man by man was vastly superior) two times, i am not sure he is a lock for a GOAT football debate, let alone GOAT through all sports.

I will pass the wc finals because more blame is on the biggest number 9 choker of all, that fat guy called Higuain. Still, he did s h i t in that match, however match could have gone to either side and Germany is world class. Against Chile there are no excuses.

Maradona not only took a mediocre Argentina team to the title but he had the luxury to take an even worse national team four years later to another final where they lost to a great Germany side filled with talent with a highly debatable penalty.

And Pele has 3 wcs, won one at 17... jeez give me a break, the guy was like 9 times in a row top scorer in Brazil when the talent was still there not like today
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
I didn't read anything except the title, but this is a false equivalent IMO! Those greats mentioned came from team sports! Federer should only be compared to someone who went mono a mono like Tiger Woods, Mohammed Ali, or AJ Foyt! They transcended their sport all by themselves! Does that make sense to people? Brady, Jordon, and or other sports' great depended on a supporting cast! If he didn't have it, he wouldn't have been as great! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
I didn't read anything except the title, but this is a false equivalent IMO! Those greats mentioned came from team sports! Federer should only be compared to someone who went mono a mono like Tiger Woods, Mohammed Ali, or AJ Foyt! They transcended their sport all by themselves! Does that make sense to people? Brady, Jordon, and or other sports' great depended on a supporting cast! If he didn't have it, he wouldn't have been as great! :rolleyes: :p ;)
If any sporting legends at all deserve to be considered as having been in a team sport it is race car drivers. AJ Foyt, like Michael Schumacher etc, owes a huge chunk of any success he had with the car and the team around it designing, building and maintaining it.

He can't be considered as a person who "went mono."
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
If any sporting legends at all deserve to be considered as having been in a team sport it is race car drivers. AJ Foyt, like Michael Schumacher etc, owes a huge chunk of any success he had with the car and the team around it designing, building and maintaining it.

He can't be considered as a person who "went mono."
Every one has coaches, advisors, and in Federer's case, racket producers & stringers, but he's still out there on the court alone! Foyt was the driver and if someone else had the same team, it wouldn't necessarily translate to a win! I'm of 2 minds concerning athletes; depending on their supporting cast! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Every one has coaches, advisors, and in Federer's case, racket producers & stringers, but he's still out there on the court alone! Foyt was the driver and if someone else had the same team, it wouldn't necessarily translate to a win! I'm of 2 minds concerning athletes; depending on their supporting cast! :rolleyes: :p ;)
That's very different. No matter the amount of coaching or physios the player is out on the court doing effectively 99% of the equation in the performance. In motorsports the driver is about 50% of the equation in winning, even less in the more high-tech categories like F1. Put the average driver in the grid in the best car and they will be winning races - as has been demonstrated many times in history when a top driver has had to be subbed out (because of injury etc). But if you gave Troicki or Dolgopolov the physio/coach/agent of Federer they basically wont do much better, if at all.

The fact this massive, glaring distinction needed to be explained says a fair bit.
 

I am the Greatest!

Professional
Magic was 31 in 1991, that is far from his prime or peak especially for point guards. yes now guys are playing more into their 30s but not back then and even now decline in all the advance stats set in after 30 for most point guards. Kobe couldnt even buy beer when Jordan won his last ring in 1998 so he was far from his prime. Not sure what your point is.

Ill even try and help you a little - He did have isiah, chuck and mailman to go up against but isiah had a terrible injury too early in his career that ended it, chuck never came into the season in shape and yes suns were a hard opponent and Utah was old by the time they had a good roster around them. Yes I know I missed GP and ewing but even with those 5 it wasnt as much as the competition as today.

Plus there was expansion in 1995 so the rosters were slightly diluted and globalization of the nba didnt fully set in until much later in the 90s. Only the absolute best players like kukoc, dino, vlade and drazen came. there were very few players from Africa or south america like we see today. Yes DK and the dream were HOF but those were pretty much it. And most of the HOF guys were in the west the only one in the east was Ewing and Reggie. So Jordan benefited from all those guys beating themselves.

I think we should just agree to disagree here.
Magic was the SECOND place in MVP voting and is having a great season in 1991. What the **** are you talking about? Jordan was old in 1998 and no one was able to take away his mantle as the best player that year. Everyone gets old. LOL.

LOL wasn't as much competition. The competition in the 80s and the 90s were the best due to parity, not unlike today where you have three all-stars in like four teams. LOL.

Isiah and the Pistons were still at their best in 1991. Chuck was never out of shape coming in the season early his career. Are you sure you were really into the NBA back then? Coz you sound like obviously, you're not.

There are also teams who play like expansion teams today. Your point?
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Learn basketball history so you won't have to ask again.
The team GOATs of basketball were gone or on their last legs! As good as Jordan was, if he had played against the Lakers and Celtics in their "hey day" he wouldn't have had a sniff of 6 championships! I'm from Chicago and saw how the sport had really declined with the loss of Magic & Bird with the deterioration of Sir Charles, and the end of days for Drexler! The players that came after them didn't know the basics; became more like wrestling $#!t with the Bad Boys of Detroit and the massive egos of the Magic with Penny & Shaq! They weren't in the same league as Jordan even with his Jordanaires who needed to be coached up to perform! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
It'd be hilarious to watch LeBron try to play against those 90s Knicks teams. He would have been clamoring for a safe space by the end of the first quarter.
They would have roughed him up good! He wouldn't have survived the Bad Boys of Detroit! They didn't give a damn about Jordan & made his life Hell until '91! :rolleyes:
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Magic was the SECOND place in MVP voting and is having a great season in 1991. What the **** are you talking about? Jordan was old in 1998 and no one was able to take away his mantle as the best player that year. Everyone gets old. LOL.

LOL wasn't as much competition. The competition in the 80s and the 90s were the best due to parity, not unlike today where you have three all-stars in like four teams. LOL.

Isiah and the Pistons were still at their best in 1991. Chuck was never out of shape coming in the season early his career. Are you sure you were really into the NBA back then? Coz you sound like obviously, you're not.

There are also teams who play like expansion teams today. Your point?
The league sucked by the late 90's! The Bulls cruised; actually setting game win record until Golden State came along winning 73 games recently! The league had fallen so low as to allow the Admiral on his last legs to win the NBA Chp. in '99 with a little known rookie called Tim Duncan! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 

I am the Greatest!

Professional
The team GOATs of basketball were gone or on their last legs! As good as Jordan was, if he had played against the Lakers and Celtics in their "hey day" he wouldn't have had a sniff of 6 championships! I'm from Chicago and saw how the sport had really declined with the loss of Magic & Bird with the deterioration of Sir Charles, and the end of days for Drexler! The players that came after them didn't know the basics; became more like wrestling $#!t with the Bad Boys of Detroit and the massive egos of the Magic with Penny & Shaq! They weren't in the same league as Jordan even with his Jordanaires who needed to be coached up to perform! :rolleyes: :p ;)
The sport was at its apex in the late 80s to the early 90s and its popularity bolstered when Jordan came in. Stop with that declined narrative.

All players are coached. So much for your statement dude.
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
The sport was at its apex in the late 80s to the early 90s and its popularity bolstered when Jordan came in. Stop with that declined narrative.

All players are coached. So much for your statement dude.
Jordan showed in the mid 80's! Are you sure you were around and cognizant of what was going on? The sport was popular, but the elites were missing by the mid 90's! There was a distinct drop off in skill where hot-dogging was more prevalent! That's why teams like Utah made the final in B2B seasons because of the immaturity of the Lakers before The Guru arrived and straightened them out! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 

I am the Greatest!

Professional
Jordan showed in the mid 80's! Are you sure you were around and cognizant of what was going on? The sport was popular, but the elites were missing by the mid 90's! There was a distinct drop off in skill where hot-dogging was more prevalent! That's why teams like Utah made the final in B2B seasons because of the immaturity of the Lakers before The Guru arrived and straightened them out! :rolleyes: :p ;)
I was able to analyze the game since 1988. LOL. Jordan performed the year he came to the league. And good job badmouthing Utah, who would have 2 titles without the Bulls. What narratives can do.
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
I was able to analyze the game since 1988. LOL. Jordan performed the year he came to the league. And good job badmouthing Utah, who would have 2 titles without the Bulls. What narratives can do.
That wasn't disparaging them as much as adulation for them playing and knowing the basics of the game! They wouldn't have gotten past the Lakers though if they weren't such a dysfunctional and selfish team of a-hole in LA! Phil brought them together in time to beat the true favorites in '01; Sacramento! The officials helped them along and that travesty won't be forgotten for a couple generations! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
my semi-serious basketball playing during college can be wrapped up rather simply;
- put the 6''6' dude below opponents basket
- throw ball towards said basket

I know why I stayed with tennis.
I played everyday and loved the clothes! Borg made Fila world famous! Tennis was a lot more glamorous back then than b-ball ever would become! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
Individual sports vs. team sports.?? o_O

You're comparing an Apple with 5-40 Oranges

Why not use Phelps, Mayweather, Tiger Woods, or Usain Bolt?
and maybe McElroy after 10 years.

A 20-10 record is not that great. 6.5 times out 10 you win?? Not so great odds in a Casino when you win small and lose big. He is winning small now because his competitive field is less just like from 2004-2007.
Just one of the big 5 opponents is playing semi-healthy.
Unfortunately, and you need to be honest, when Fed's competition was at their best, he is 500 or less. Yeah, I still love the guy and would let him sleepover in the extra room no questions asked, but I have to be real.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
No way about Bolt. Usain has been incredible...but it's a very specific skill and he did it over an 8 year stretch. In tennis, there is so much more required in terms of quickness, agility, strength, balance, soft hands, skilled hands, explosiveness, leaping ability and much more. MORE is required to do what Fed has done compared to what Bolt had to do. Not diminishing Bolt, but he doesn't compare to Fed.
You're right being undefeated does not compare to Fed.
Now you're going to say Fed's athleticism is great?? Really. I would say Monfis and Djokovic are better tennis athletes than Fed.

and then you say every 4 years? Oh yeah, there are absolutely no annual major track events ever.

Let's see Fed go undefeated in track? or Fed do what Phelps did.

Even if we used major team sports, Jordan is 6-0. The absolute best. Not 6 and 3.
Fed can be surpassed in 20 years by someone else who could get 22 slams and lose 5 or less slams. Fed is not even the most dominant in his era. H2H against Nadal is horrible.. who cares about least 3-4 times on hard court. The guy wimped out and didn't play any clay events last year.
It is MUCH HARDER for a team with the same player to go undefeated in the final 6 times with the best player.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
It'd be hilarious to watch LeBron try to play against those 90s Knicks teams. He would have been clamoring for a safe space by the end of the first quarter.
Very true. The whole Warriors team would be crying too except Draymond. The league became soft once they started getting a lot more foreign players. Now it's a bunch of softies.
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Very true. The whole Warriors team would be crying too except Draymond. The league became soft once they started getting a lot more foreign players. Now it's a bunch of softies.
We had 1 on each of the teams I supported while living in Chicago and Sacramento! Kukoc & Stojaković respectively had to weather the storm of how physical play was at the time; not to mention the 3 point line being further back! Early on they threw up a lot of "air-balls!" They got better and contributed well after a year or 2! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
It's true that Maradona used only one hand. :)
Never been into soccer, but what do you mean he only used one hand? As far as I can remember, the only player to actually handle the ball or block the ball with their hands are the goalies! Did he have a problem with a hand or arm? :rolleyes: :p ;)
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Individual sports vs. team sports.?? o_O

You're comparing an Apple with 5-40 Oranges

Why not use Phelps, Mayweather, Tiger Woods, or Usain Bolt?
and maybe McElroy after 10 years.

A 20-10 record is not that great. 6.5 times out 10 you win?? Not so great odds in a Casino when you win small and lose big. He is winning small now because his competitive field is less just like from 2004-2007.
Just one of the big 5 opponents is playing semi-healthy.
Unfortunately, and you need to be honest, when Fed's competition was at their best, he is 500 or less. Yeah, I still love the guy and would let him sleepover in the extra room no questions asked, but I have to be real.
Put down the glass pipe and come back when you have something coherent to contribute.
 
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